World opinion of U.S. sinking, Dislike of everything American on the rise

...In the past, while Europeans, Asians and Arabs might have disliked American policies or specific U.S. leaders, they liked and admired Americans themselves.

Polls now show an ominous turn. Majorities around the world think Americans are greedy, violent and rude, and fewer than half in countries like Poland, Spain, Canada, China and Russia think Americans are honest.
"We found a rising antipathy toward Americans," said Bruce Stokes of the Pew Global Attitudes Project, which interviewed 93,000 people in 50 countries over a four-year span.
...
Stokes and his colleagues at the Pew Research Center, a nonpartisan public opinion group in Washington, found that fewer and fewer people see the United States as a land of high ideals and opportunity. More than half of those asked in France, Germany, Italy, Canada and Britain said the "spread of American ideas and customs" was a "bad thing."

This represents a major uphill challenge for the United States, which, after a period of aggressive "go-it-alone" foreign policy, is again coming to rely on allies and international partners.
...
Almost half of those polled in Britain, France and Germany dispute the whole concept of a global war on terrorism, and a majority of Europeans believe the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. More than two-thirds of Germans, French and Turks believe American leaders lied about the reasons for war and believe the United States is less trustworthy than it once was.

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-5/114784645160150.xml

nobody" and "Who cares what the stinkin' French say". Most Americans are entirely unaware that the rest of the world even exists.

from his/her place of birth

that that statement, if accurate, has more to do with socio-economic status than a lack of desire or ignorance. Don't be too much of an elitist on this ;)

and our insane work ethic is to blame.

We went to Costa Rica a couple of years ago on vacation and were astonished by the number of Germans traveling there on family vacations with children. We NEVER saw any Americans in that demographic.

The ability of the Average American to afford (time and money) to at least occasionally travel abroad is something worth fighting for.

to travel around. I don't know many Americans who get that much paid time off work. My brother gets nine wks/per year, but he's been at his job for over 30 yrs.

My employers "generous" vacation policy? LOL! When he's away, I have no work - if his generous vacation policy was not en force, I'd have to take unpaid time off or diddle for a week at my desk, whenever he goes away. Believe me, the elites get to fly away, the rest of us - one day or long-weekend at a time at their convenience!

You obviously haven't done that much traveling.

we will figure out all the crappy things we do to other people so we can live like fat, consuming, wasteful bastards (if we travel to the developing world) or how crappy we have it compared to other developed countries (if we travel to Europe). Just like the ah ha! you had about Germans having all that vacation time AND money to take their whole family on vacation. My in-laws in France are retired at 58 years old. He was a dishwasher and she was a maid in a government building. They sold their apartment in the suburb of Paris and are building a 3 bedroom house in the countryside. They also have a vacation mobile home on the coast in Brittany. They have traveled many times, and don't have any worries at all about their retirement, health care, prescriptions - nothing. How many dishwashers and maids can say that here?

socio economic reasons? wtf. America is the richest nation in the world, yetv its citizens travel the least out of ALL the developed nations.

Work it out

Its isolationism, cultural arrogance and ignorance, which is why the US has been able to get away with murder (literally) since 1945 around the world, because the majority of citizens (the minority being the noble exception) couldn't give a shit about the outside world

Arrogant or Ignorant because can't afford to travel overseas out of the US is pathetic and LOW. An elitist attitude like that displayed by liberals and democrats will just make Americans who aren't affiliated with either major party run the other way. American's are already running away from the republicans because of the extreme religious right and neocons running the show on the other side. Why would any one in their right mind want to have anything to do with a party that has members calling people arrogant or ignorant because they can't afford to travel overseas? I know I sure wouldn't, so the average american will just say fuck it and not get involved at all. The winners when the working class american's don't care what happens is the neocons who run this country.

Looking at airfares alone to travel overseas somewhere- I would have to save for years to take a trip of decent length, once you factor in hotels and food, etc. And I would travel by myself so there are added penalties for that (double occupancy rates are usually lower) which is not at all fair. But there it is. And maybe I am wrong, maybe it is just the perception that everything is so expensive that keeps people home.

But I think a HUGE factor is the lack of decent vacation time or the inability to take vacation even if you do get. The vast majority of people in this country are not middle class yuppies who can travel at a whim.

I've studied six languages, followed the international media since I began listening to shortwave at the age of 12... and have left this continent exactly once (I have been to Canada on numerous occasions, but that very nearly does not count for me as I've spent much of my life living on the Canadian border, and going to Canada for me is more like "shopping trip" than "going to a foreign land"). I doubt that I will ever again leave North America.

So I'm an isolationist? No, I'm disabled, and dirt poor.

Yes, the US is rich. And the US has a very big gap between rich and poor. In the years I've spent as a poor person, living among poor people, I've gotten to know many poor people, most of whom are not disabled, none of whom could even dream of being world travelers. When you're working for minimum wage, or not much better than minumum wage, your job is not stable and doesn't come with benefits, and you've got a family to feed, you don't sit around thinking about your next trip to Paris.

People like them -- and me -- are not rare: we fill blocks and blocks and neighborhoods and neighborhoods and sometimes entire towns and cities. The one thing we don't fill is the internet, and places like DU: internet access, and developing computer skills, costs money too. I happen to be here because my poverty is acquired, rather than inherited, and I have the skills not only to use a computer, but to build my own computer systems out of cast off parts. Just because you don't usually deal with people like me (class in America being neatly segregated by neighborhood) does not mean we're anything like rare.

Furthermore, you need to consider geography. If indeed one lives in Paris, and one wants to go to Germany, that's equivalent to an American traveling to the next state. For most Americans other than us border people, the next country over is a long long way away, and two countries over is nearly a continent away.

still a different language, different culture, (at least now the same money), but also, LOTS of highway tolls to get there and gas costs 4-5 times as much as it does here. Health care is incredibly cheap, so is education, day care, etc. Europeans consume less and travel more. Different values, I guess. They don't have closets (or not many), so you have to think about how much you need something because you have no place to put it!

don't travel, not specific circumstances like your own. The majority of Americans do not travel due to disability or socioeconomic reasons, beacause that is not the majority of America. Its the same in European countries the poor obviouslty travel less due to inequality of resources.

In America the majority is not poor. There are a lot of (relatively ) poor people but its not the majority.

The majority who don't travel is due to ignorance. Ignorance is not the fault of the person, its the culture and the American centric attitude of the media, education and culture. a belgian politician once said, foreigners can do a great magic trick in America. arrive and watch your country disappear. Thats the problem, not being poor and/or disabled.

Furthermore to travel to Mexico or central and South America is not that expensive, its because its in the 'Rest of the World' that people don't travel

you said what need to be said!

My mother's three siblings in Montana have NO desire to so much as leave their county. Her brother went to Canada once and returned the next day - too different. Her sister has a ton of money - spends it all on new vehicles to drive around the county shooting gophers. They don't relate to and don't care about other parts of the state so much the country or world.

And there are many other like them. Trust me.

almost a second class state.

are foreign policy shouldn't be based on how much people like us.

why should the US determine which currency they tie their economy to?

you will care what other country tie their currency to

the Euro or the Yen aren't the world currencies now. are Europeans and Japanese greatly suffering because of this?

...It's not anymore and you see how the UK imploded.

What happened to England is gonna be nothing compared to the collapse of the US. We're gonna break up into a bunch of pieces just as Russia did, only we'll be a bigger joke.

I bet that Steven Harper is secretly licking his lips just thinking of picking up 20 blue states to add to Canada, taking the cream away and letting the 30 red states collapse into Jesusland.

a prophet of doom and gloom.

if the US falls, it will take alot of the world with it.

I would not exactly call Britain a third world country either.

This corrupt, unless Bush administration has done some serious irreparable damage to this country. And yet the people have not taken to the streets with pitchforks and torches. In stead, we go about our daily lives like this whole thing is a bad dream.

Well, when we do wake up. We will have hell to pay for sleeping so damn long.

and counting.

in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

There was no way the economy of a medium size nation could spend that much, and then maintain a global empire.

(aka mercenaries). With all that ill-gotten imperial gold. Sorry - said with (tristesse) a sad smile ;-(

first world war in a nation of 45 million at the time. An entire generation of young men killed. The population in US terms equivalent would be 6 or 7 million dead over a four year war. How long we been in Iraq?

after that they hadn't recovered before Hitler began invading his neighbours and Blitzing London. one of the few noble thiongs the UK has done in its history was to fight it out with Hitler on their own for three years.

Your either with us or against us. you didn't hear that then.

Plus the money America lent to her and bled back.

However implode i think is a liitle dramatic from the other poster. the UK just increased immigration to replace the dead and rebuild the country, and waited for the baby boomers to grow up.

While the USA not only remained unscathed, but actually PROFITED (war profiteering) from those endeavors!

It was not entirely the result of the world switching to the Dollar that caused it, but rather BECAUSE of the "successes" of the (LUCKY) USA, did the world switch to the Dollar and away from the Pound as a RESULT of circumstances!

falling below some psychological level with the dollar-- maybe it was $2.00. They way the article was worded had me believing that the UK economy was about to crash and burn.

And one of those nighttime news magazines back then was claiming that the British trade unions had dragged the UK so far to the left, it was about to go Communist.

Time to move up north!

astronomical debt load the U.S. is. Once Iran or Venezuela or anyone else begins to challenge the dollar's supremacy in oil exchange our currency value will be in deep trouble. We are absolutely dependant on being the world's chief medium of exchange and that situation will simply not last forever.

attitude. "Americans are greedy, violent and rude, and fewer than half in countries like Poland, Spain, Canada, China and Russia think Americans are honest."

They just left out "arrogant".

Until American's wake up and realize that they are no longer the worlds superpower and that we no longer control everything and everyone on this earth, until we realize that we must together on this planet, we will continue to destroy our nation.

... has a lot to do with how well off we will be.

the US policy should NOT be to bribe countries so they like us.

And are you conceding that a positive world opinion will have positive benefits for us?

doing that? I frankly doubt it would change overnight when a Democrat is elected in 08.

... Just like their turn against us did not happen overnight.

If you're looking for what we can do to change their opinion overnight you may as stop now.

Suppose we allow 8 more years to fix the problem. THEN can you think of anything other than bribes that might work?

such as Darfur for example. fund development and educational programs in poor countries at a reasonable levels. the US can NOT do it alone.

then we should NOT do things like invade other countries, intervene where not wanted.

however, other than that we should continue to pursue for the most part our own interests. Again, if people are not going to like us, then so be it.

... people will like us more.

What would you do about the cultural issues that come up as a result of our materialistic, greedy, violent movies and television that get seen all over the planet? They seem to appeal to the most base instincts of people (ah, the magic of capitalism) and my goodness, isn't that strange, make people want to be big consumers of oil and drive around in monstrous behemoth SUVs.

Like I say, good start, and I'm all for what you advocate. I just don't know how to address some of these more complex problems, though.

It would be nice if the world were more like the French and looked down their noses at the pop culture crap the U.S. turns out, but like I said, the U.S. is a finely developed laboratory for turning out media that appeals to the basest of human instincts.


Cher

In latin america, I haven't noticed alot of reluctance to go see American movies. they seem to enjoy it. I am glad the rest of the world is NOT snobbish like the French.

not sure how the SUV thing fits into this. that is insidious wastefulness in this country. Most other countries I've visited have high mileage small vehicles and lots of public transportation.

the exception of Venezuela because of dirt cheap oil has alot of American gas guzzlers.

It's an amazing phenomena.

I considered it for my doctoral dissertation.

There is a wealth of material on it.




Cher

The only way the government could get involved is by censoring what they don't want exported. That is obviously a bad idea, so other problems, that can be addressed, will need to be addressed instead.

They said, for the most part, the French people were actually very nice. The problems American tourists have with them stems from those tourists usually acting like "ugly Americans," and having been to Europe, a decent amount of Americans act like "ugly Americans." Instead of at least attempting to speak the language (if you try, the French will be nice to you and probably speak to you in English) and blending in with the culture, they expect the culture they're visiting to adapt to them. It is arrogant and rude and they have absolutely no excuse for it. Hell, even when I was in Ireland, I ended up hanging out with a bunch of French guys staying in the hostel. They were cool. I barely speak any French and they didn't have great English, but we still had a great time and could respect each other.

So they aren't always based on the interests of multinational corporations.

We should see US interests as creating global stability based on social justice and a clean environment for all.

If nothing else, it would save us a mint on the war budget.

Remember all those sympathetic rallies and candlelight vigils worldwide after 9/11?

several billion people will breath a sigh of relief the minute * is out of office.

(Of course there will always be anti-Americanism but just compare attitudes to America under * and Clinton and you'll see a lot of it has to with the current administration).

.....the entire world will breathe a great sigh of relief and come flocking back to establish relationships with this country. This administration has created a nightmare that other countries want no part of. They will welcome a new, democratic, progressive administration faster than you may think.

Yes, it can be that simple!

Throw out the corruption brought about solely by the REPUKES, and watch the way the world responds!

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hopefully, we have finally learned our lesson. I agree with most of your post with the exception of the insults.

Venezuela is going to have deal with private companies, not the US. Venezuela is dependent on their oil industry. Overly dependent. Oil doesn't appear very cheap right now.

although it is in Venezuela because Chavez subsidizes it.

That's just what *'s foreign policy is all about, that and axis' of evil.

countries and blatantly stealing their resources, that might be a start ~ the world wasn't too fond of the USSR either, and look what happened to them! Maybe they too, should have learned that you can't keep killing people and expect the world to bow down before you.

Next, a better education system here might help so that we don't end up with a president who doesn't know where Belfast is, eg!

And another thing that might help is not constantly telling the world that 'we are the best country in the world' especially when we have one of the worst crime rates, healthcare systems, working conditions, civil rights problems of all the so-called 'civilized' nations.

It's really sad that Americans think 'quality of life' = materialism rather than REAL family values. We live in a very violent and uncaring society. The total lack of outrage over the torture pictures from Abu Ghraib shocked me, to be honest, and forced me to accept that this country has definitely lost its way.

like the Kyoto Accords - prove to the world that we're willing to be team players rather than just greedy me-firsts.

We need to stop the Iraq war and get the fuck OUT OF THERE!!! And not launch ANY MORE wars of choice based on fishy intel that the rest of the world saw through from the beginning.

We need to stop raping other countries' resources, cutting down their trees, laying claim to their oil, leaving little for them.

We need to stop torturing and openly defying the Geneva Conventions.

And we need to bring our rogue "leaders" to justice and force them to answer, in public, FOR THE WORLD TO SEE, for the sins and atrocities they've committed.

We need to stop this idea that you can force democracy on other countries at gunpoint. Even some of the neocons like Francis Fukuyama now realize that.

We need to stop lying. Our word doesn't mean shit now. That, too, has been squandered. Tony Blair is on the ropes. Aznar and Berlusconi are history - the very same ones who signed on with bush and clung to him. That's also why Hugo Chavez of Venezuela is gaining in popularity and stature elsewhere in the world, and why more countries that have oil are moving toward nationalization (there's another thread about this here). THOSE ideas are gonna be gaining more traction in the years ahead. NOT ours. Furthermore, there will be less and less motivation to "buy American" not only because the world dislikes us more and more, but also because the brain drain that's gone on here as the knuckledraggers start taking over our schools and teaching Buy-bull ONLY, we will fall farther and farther behind as far as research, development, invention and innovation. It's not US coming up with a new car that could get as much as, what, 8500 miles per gallon (there was another thread here about that, too, recently), it's Sweden. It'll be the Indians and the Chinese who advance technology. It'll be India leading the world in medicine. It'll be the European Space Agency, with the Russians, who'll lead in space exploration. And it goes on.

My dad once said "to make a friend, you have to BE a friend."

We need to do that, as a country, and woo the rest of the world back to sympathizing with us and trusting us. We DO need the rest of the world. We can't just swagger around the joint giving orders and lying to people and putting on this arrogant "my way or the highway" crap. We need to adopt a new attitude that invites friendship and partnership, not a WE'RE on top and you all are on the BOTTOM approach. Because pretty soon, if we don't, we'll have run through the last measure of good will there may be left to us. And frankly, we won't have a leg to stand on in terms of "MY way or the highway." China holds most of our debt. When the Chinese decide to take us down, they can do it financially if they really wanna shut us up and teach us a lesson. It'll be CHINA'S way or the highway by then.

The survey talks about Poland, China, Germany, Poland, the UK and others.

Why the obsession with the French ?

What have we ever done to you ?

n/t

I have an idea yours was not

based on what public opinion in France is at the moment.

n/t

US policy??

on purpose

Once again you prove who you are in your arrogance and ignorance of national-centricity

"WHAT ABOUT POLAND?"

never had any real problems at all.

the "we dislike your government so therefore we dislike you" is a myth.

never in my 33 years of flying have i ever seen such dislike and distain for americans as i have seen the past 5 years under idiot son!

fly

I'll take that into consideration when I am traveling in South America this year.

but I don't believe that people's perceptions are based on who their president is. sure, things will improve once Bush is gone, how couldn't they???.

I don't hate Cubans or Zimbabweans or Liberians because their governments are repressive.

we have had this debate recently on the BBC started by an American woman complaining of the abuse she was recieving for being American. This sparked a flood of other Americans living in the UK to ring in and basically say bullshit. Their message was that they generally get a sympathetic smile, kinda, sorry for the dickhead in the white house you have to pout up with kind of smile, and then possibly a sensible debate on world affairs.

Very civilised. No abuse or bullshit, that would be childish

Didn't you get Karen Hughes memo?



The reputation of the "Ugly American" abroad is not, however, just some cruel stereotype, but - according to the American government itself - worryingly accurate. Now, the State Department in Washington has joined forces with American industry to plan an image make-over by issuing guides for Americans travelling overseas on how to behave.


'Ugly American' abroad: Worryingly accurate
Under a programme starting next month, several leading US companies will give employees heading abroad a "World Citizens Guide" featuring 16 etiquette tips on how they can help improve America's battered
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/04/16/wtour16.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/04/16/ixworld.html

The guide offers a series of "simple suggestions" under the slogan, "Help your country while you travel for your company". The advice targets a series of common American traits and includes:

• Think as big as you like but talk and act smaller. (In many countries, any form of boasting is considered very rude. Talking about wealth, power or status - corporate or personal - can create resentment.)

• Listen at least as much as you talk. (By all means, talk about America and your life in our country. But also ask people you're visiting about themselves and their way of life.)

• Save the lectures for your kids. (Whatever your subject of discussion, let it be a discussion not a lecture. Justified or not, the US is seen as imposing its will on the world.)

• Think a little locally. (Try to find a few topics that are important in the local popular culture. Remember, most people in the world have little or no interest in the World Series or the Super Bowl. What we call "soccer" is football everywhere else. And it's the most popular sport on the planet.)

• Slow down. (We talk fast, eat fast, move fast, live fast. Many cultures do not.)

• Speak lower and slower. (A loud voice is often perceived as bragging. A fast talker can be seen as aggressive and threatening.)

• Your religion is your religion and not necessarily theirs. (Religion is usually considered deeply personal, not a subject for public discussions.)

• If you talk politics, talk - don't argue. (Steer clear of arguments about American politics, even if someone is attacking US politicians or policies. Agree to disagree.)

I am perfectly handling myself in a dignified manner in a foreign country. I freely admit that some apparently do not.

manners and common sense. Perhaps its a cultural difference but to talk loudly, brag about status, talk about yourself and you own country all the time with no local knowledge and then talk about religion is just fucking rude.

I would have thought that would be obvious manners to all Americans also. Is that advice not a little patronising

You just nailed it, whether you meant to or not. These things are NOT obvious manners to Americans. Basically, we don't give a flying fuck about manners, and now, by extension, we've elected a president who runs our foreign policy like we run our vacations.

The world is right. America is packed to the brim with nationalists, religious zealots, buffoons, and con men, ready and waiting to be exported worldwide in the name of freedom, democracy, entertainment and free trade.

I wonder if one of his people will read it to him?

:shrug:

n/t

I spent much of the 80s and part of the 90s in Europe (some as military, some as civilian), and still visit often for work and family, and have noticed a "cooling" toward Americans in general in the last few years.

been to Ven, Colombia, Santo Domingo 5 times each. Peru Brazil as well. I will be heading somewhere in July down south and Argentina around Thanksgiving.

Can't say I've seen too much animosity. Bush isn't well liked but I am not Bush.

I find that Latin Americans are far too generous in giving Americans a pass on the misery and violence our government and military have inflicted on them through the constant intervening in their countries. Afterall, you don't exactly see much outrage in this country over the injustice of it all. Most Americans really don't give a shit about anyone else and think we should be able to do whatever is in our "interests", even if it means completely disregarding the "interests" and sovereignty of other peoples and nations.

compared to just about every latin country.

I haven't seen much change and I live here. I have noticed a cooling towards American politicians in particularly Bush, but in general people do know the difference between American policy and the American people as individuals. Neither do they assume everyone in America loves George Bush and his idiotic policies either.

If politics comes up........I simply tell them I hate Bush and I'm accepted. Now there was this old guy in the betting shop who was going to let me pick his horse when he thought I was Irish but changed his mind when he found out I was American............but what the hey.......it's a Luck of the Irish thing ya know?.....He should have let me pick.......my horse won the Grand National.:evilgrin:

who KNOW my feelings about George and the rest of the thugs, as opposed to when I happen to meet someone in a business or public setting who is unfamiliar with me. :thumbsup:

As soon as they figure out I'm an American.........and I get 'the look' .......I always pipe right up and say......."don't blame me, I didn't vote for him and tried to warn anyone who would listen"......it's always guaranteed to bring a smile. :evilgrin:

Well, that and the fact that I already respect other cultures.

Norman Solomon (the anti-war protester who immolated himself outside MacNamara's office at the Pentagon) in several broadcast speeches to make the point to the Vietnamese people that the people of America were different than the policies its government was pursuing.

While people should behave with decorum and politeness wherever they visit, it should go no further than that; only a fool would allow themself to passively submit to demands made by anybody.

(As for "national-centricity" -- it sounds like some 90's PC/anthropological kind of thing. I'm glad it hasn't entered the common lingo.)

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After my reply being here for 3 days and then gets removed

He has proved my point don't you think?

Dictionary from Apple
arrogant |?ar?g?nt|

adjective having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities :


Arrogant American international policies is why the world has lowered their opinions of our country and doesn't trust us like they use to.
How many examples do you need from history that have occurred since 2000?

And if you don't like my 90's PC lingo which sounds Politically Correct for I know you did not mean personal computer, Maybe you like political incorrect lingo, I don't know?

" only a fool would allow themself to passively submit to demands made by anybody" which has nothing to do with the koyto treaty, Iraq, Iran or how we have treated the world.

is that for any foreign policy it must get traction with democratically-elected foreign leaders. We are only liked by dictators looking after their personal wealth/security hides, with few exceptions. This foreign policy has been a disaster because of the perceived (and real) cultural arrogance from this government. What Bacchus said initially is that our foreign policy should not be determined by world opinion. I think it's ridiculous, and now we (private citizens) are suffering the consequences.

:hi:

n/t

but hogging the credit is disingenuous. The Soviet Army suffered the brunt of casualties, and arguably was the ultimate cause of Hitler's defeat, and it was a major drain on Hitler's resources.

It was a very nice gift.

ed. to add:

But my Lady has many reasons to cry.

It most definitely should be based on how other nations view us. Your attitude is not conducive to peace and harmony. It is in fact quite Republican...

policy issues or act in our own interests??

We don't need to poll the world to come to our conclusions but we need to "respect" their opinions and base policy accordingly. You sound just like Cheney when he was accusing Kerry of having to poll the world to form policy. It is always easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar. It is esential that we give consideration to what others think. That doesn't mean we have to do what they say but at least we give consideration to their views. Republicans do not believe that is necessary. It is why they are despised throughout the world. Republicans believe and often brag that it is better to be feared than loved. Liberals do not believe that... period...

no way!! do we get to be on the committee of China's governmental policy or Russia or Brazil??

if I were say Argentina on the Intergovernmental Committee for US Policy Development I would certainly vociferously argue that US policy should be favorable to Argentina's interests.

Go brush up on your history some time to see what favorable and effective diplomacy can do, like for example Bismark and his unification of Germany how he kept Austria and France from getting involved and fouling things up. Effective use of world opionion is consulting with our allies and with regional powers so that even if they don't agree with what we are doing we make sure that they won't be in the way. Effective diplomacy is in isolating the problem so that other methods work much smoother, if we did that prior to Iraq then I would bet you we would have a MUCH more stable situation over there right now.

He kept France from getting involved in German unification by diplomatically launching a pre-emptive war against them

:eyes:

do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You reap what you sow. Life is not a zero sum game. We can all have our needs met, but we can't all have our greed met.

I can't believe I used that many cliches in one posting! How corny -- but somehow, I got it in my head that these were American values. I don't see that anymore, though.

and keeping the other guy happy is called diplomacy.

in many instances. Particularly when dealing with two or more parties that have conflicting interests. one or more sides will be upset more than likely so realistically there is no pleasing everyone.

Our foreign policy should be based on fostering both American goals and national defense and the mutual benefits with the rest of the world. That overall goal shouldn't be obtained at the result of needlessly harming other nations, whether that be useless invasions and unnecessary war (Iraq), or covertly supporting death squads (El Salvador in the 80's.)

But beyond that, under no circumstances should the US allow its affairs and national defense to be dictated by the outside world. We should never submissively cave in to other nation's unreasonable demands (whenever they surface.) We're not wimps.

Only that we are not alone on this planet and other's opinions are valuable and should be at least listened to. I guess Americans are just so damn smart no one on earth should dare to utter an opinion. Americans know everything about everything...Our education system proves that resoundingly...

American compadres. I say this with great sadness mostly because even in a place like DU you can still find so many American people lacking of vision and humility.

Without decent *universal* education (not to mention the rights to life, health, liberty, work, a roof over your head, expression of your sexuality (at and beyond nubile age) and in general the pursuit of happiness), access to honest information and the right of freedom of expression, anything approaching real democracy is impossible.

I believe there's an international Declaraton of Human Rights out there somewhere...

Also, 'democracy', even in a supposedly radical republic such as the USA, should not depend on 'who you know' or 'how much money' you can raise.

We are the meanest and da baddest! WOOOHOOOO! We can kick anybody's ass!

Feel less 'wimpy'?

submissively cave in to our unreasonable demands? Bullshit. It's about striking a balance, something repubs are incapable of. Not just have our interests in mind but anticipate and take into account world reaction. Our foreign policy (aside from maybe FDR and Kennedy) has been nearsighted throughtout history.

foreign nations ..and visa versa..do you understand the largest french population outside france is in Los Angeles??
do you understand how many pharmaceutical companies in this country are owned by the french?? and british and germans?? do you have the slightest clue of how our economy is dependant on foreigh nations??

wow ..may i suggest you get out of your cave and go visit a foreign nation and understand how much we export to foreign nations for our happy existance?? and for our quality of life!!
its ignorance that has put us where we are today...when we have 50% unemploymnet in this country..we can look at attitudes that we don't care what others think of us, and it will be people with those attitudes that will be to blame!

but since many who bemoan we don't care what people around the world think of us are probably the very people who never go out and see the world..and they will be the very ones screwed the most...and don't look to me to have sympathy for those people out of jobs and sinking to poverty in this country...as they will have earned what they get by this ignorance..
everyday americans travel the world trying to build commerce in foreign nations to give you jobs..and to support your american way of life...

they now face a very upset world at our arrogance and ignorance..
the entire worlds people knew * was a fucking liar..why because many, in europe and asia, have free press..and they fight to keep it that way...they have the guts and the intelligence to fight to keep it that way..because they unlike americans, they know very well what it is like if they loose it! after all they existed long long before we were a blip on the map!

and if you even think they will not push back at this spoiled little brat of the USA..you are sorely mistaken..

Americans are ignorant and spoiled and we have no idea how tough the peoples of the world can make it for us..and they can do it with their pocketbooks...

you want isolation..well i wonder how you will feel making a dollar a day ..when the world collapses our economy??

i would say our ancestors who went through the depression could give you a clue!!

the only thing floating this US economy right now are foreign nations...
"COMMUNIST" CHINA being one of our biggest lenders!!
England and yes THE FRENCH own alot of US dollars in corporations and commerce...and may very well be the umbrella company that owns your employer..and they are heavliy invested in our treasury...

millions of your fellow Americans work out of the USA to bring you jobs and financial stability..they must face the people you so distain!

wake the hell up!



from a retired flight attendant

my perception is that Americans don't have a very high regard for the Chinese government and their anti-democracy, free expression government.

however, this certainly has not stopped US from purchasing vast amounts of Chinese products.

I don't see India refusing to accept American business who are outsourcing because of a low opinion of the USA.


people will buy products they like and invest in places where they can make money regardless of their opinions of a particular government or government system.

what ruins economies is instablity not resentment.

the USA either!! and that be from the Reagan Poppy adminstrations..how did that turn out??

perhaps you are implying that with regards to unstable or repressive governments, we should take a completely hands off approach.

more of an isolationist approach to foreign policy. don't get involved and you won't get blamed.

your previous comment
"
I don't see India refusing to accept American business who are outsourcing because of a low opinion of the USA. "


neither did saddam hussien when we were selling him vx, wmd, antrax mustard gas...

now how did that turn out for us?? when reagan was giving saddam 24 karat gold cowboy stirrups... you know the ones rumsfeld took over to him while delivering the vx and anthrax and weapons...

so ok today india is our friend..remember saddam was put into office by the USA ..our policies...so what happens when india has all our social seurity numbers ..and our credit card info and our mortgages and our insurace info medical and all else ...so tell us what happens then..when they no longer kiss our asses??

again, you seem to be saying "damned if you do, damned if you don't". non-engagement, isolationism. In some respects I agree. but there are and will be situations where US involvement will be necessary or do you think we should simply ignore world affairs.

Darfur?? Rwanda??

the Chinese are not known for torturing and kidnapping foreign nationals.

However, it is possible they do that but they don't at the same time go around telling everyone how they're 'exporting democracy' and 'bringing freedom'. It's the combination of brute force, arrogance and hypocrisy that makes the * adnministration the most disliked (IMHO).

with respect, China is not exactly a leader on the human rights front either.

at least here in the US we can protest, complain, and point out our own faults.

You're right, China isn't a leader on the human rights front. But they never claimed to be.

Do you think we would be having this same argument (about the US being morally euqivalent to China) under a Clinton or Gore administration?

take off your blinders. what about Vietnam, racism, slavery, the extermination of the Indians. And you are telling me that DESPITE all of that, other nations of the world should ignore that history and blindly accept our owned self-declared righteousness??!!!


wasn't one of the complaints from the survey that Americans are arrogant???????????


Now, on the other hand, we do live in a FREER society than China as I have said before we can protest our own abuses and injustices.

I just think the perception of America is much worse under B*sh.

If you consider * has approx 70% disapproval in America, then imagine what it is in the rest of the world!

but it does us no good to bemoan the loss of "stature" and claim we lost "the moral ground" when we were the ones self-proclaiming the moral ground in the first place.

now, should we speak of injustices in other countries?, sure. but a little humility and acceptance that we haven't always acted this way would be appreciated.

to bad questions from the wino.

isolationism and arrogance of foreign policy a bit. Its not like people don't like the US for no reason. Its probably a wise thing to listen to friends and allies. The man who think s he knows all the answers (in all levels of life) is a stupid man.

Did you take a wrong turn and end up on the wrong board?

Is it safe to assume you AGREE with our current foreign policy?

I am SURE you would care to elaborate.

by the French...in fact many major corps inside the USA are owned by the French...the largest population outside France is in Los Angeles owning many major corporations!! and this is why we are so disliked today like never before..because of ignorance by Americans.. of how many corporations inside our borders are owned by foreign nationals..and you would be totally surprised how these foreign countries are invested in our national treasury..go ahead keep being assholes to France , german et al...keep it up...and you will find them saying the same about us..who gives a fuck about the USA...see most other countries people do not live on the credit we do...just keep borrowing and spending and have the foreign boys pull out of our treasury and you will find out why you need to give a fuck about france!!

are there still people in this country so ignorant??

stop being ignorant!!

and naive..
and selfish

you will pay for that ignorance and selfishness one day..and i believe that one day is coming sooner than later!!

i began flying as a 19 yr old for a major airline..i can say i have never seen the disgust in Americans in 33 yrs like i see today..

and a pulling away of our products!!

fly

What SHOULD it be based on? That's why it's called foreign policy! (i'm fighting the urge and keeping it clean). You sound like *&#*#$ John Gibson!

Maybe if the ENTIRE WORLD thinks you're WRONG and a ROGUE NATION, then it's not THE WORLD that needs to change it's opinion?

Hmmmm?

Maybe, if the ENTIRE REST OF THE WORLD thinks you're crazy, then maybe, just maybe, you ARE crazy?!

the most entertained country in the world.

How can they be concerned with what the empire is doing
when they have "American Idol (idle)" or "Survivor" to vote
on who lives or dies in their modern Roman colosseum of ignorance ?

don't expect any help if we need any in the near future. (this comment excludes those who visit this site).

and you are correct, that attitude feeds the notion around the world that Americans are ignorant

I'd resigned myself to the notion that no American knew how this phrase should be said.

:toast:

it seems to be a common error in people who otherwise seem very literate and intelligent.....I would want someone to point out a glaring error to me, as long as it is done in a tasteful, non-bashing fashion :)

on condition you return the favour.;-)

My kids and I love to catch each other out with spelling or grammar mistakes.
Of course, with me having determinedly brought them up to use their language well,
they now love knowing enough to get their own back.
I do believe in respecting other peoples' right to speak colloquially, but
I was determined that my children would not be labeled the moment they opened their mouths.

On Americanism intrigues me. "She got off of the horse".
Is that grammar structure used throughout America?
Do you consider it to be correct within American English?

I alternated living in England and America as a GI brat. But, I did catch on to the differences. I'm not an expert in English by any means but I can tell you that partcular grammar structure is USED a lot here; I would have to research to find out if it is grammatically correct! All I know is when I write I try to avoid using the word GOT, LOL. Now, if you want to hear some TEXAS SLANG, here goes: "I am fixing to get off this horse!".....that means, 'I am going to get off this horse!"

"Ah'm a fixin tah gid arf this horse"? ;-)

Being used to both types of english, you'll know not to tell an Englishman or an Aussie bloke that his wife has a great fanny. And when you come to Australia, you'll know to wear your thongs on your feet.

:toast:

southerners have an irritating habit of making two syllables out of one :(

:hi: and Welcome to the Democratic Underground RCinBrooklyn! :hi: :D

:kick:

As you will see if Chimpy bombs Iran.

And if he's actually stupid enough to use nukes, then it won't just be disapproval Americans will be feeling.

(aka their wallets), they will change their tune. You can't make the whole world dance to your tune.

it has started to hit them in their pocketbooks. There was an article in Counter Punch, about 1 year ago. The author mentioned that US companies were getting attacked much more frequently in other countries. Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurants were getting blown up more often. About 1 month ago, the KFC in Pakistan was blown up.

Even companies like Coke were singled out for boycotts. Other companies mentioned an increase in hostilities, and threats against the employees. Several companies reported losses in earnings because of this. US companies also lost out on contracts, negotiations and agreements "just because they were American".

People tend to think of Bush as being a friend to businesses and ignoring the people. Not so! Says this author. Some companies have benefited, but they are few (like Halliburton, CACI, Titan).

American 'ideals'. Secret wars, economic hitmen, by-proxy support of death squads.... And joe sixpack doesn't give a shit. It's no wonder the world's opinion has changed

People won't get to barbarity unless they can villify and demonize
their opponents, to loathe them as subhuman. The trend is a sign of much
worse things, no matter for the average american in kansaas.

to turn a cold shoulder when we're IMF'd. It will make no difference that two presidential elections have been stolen, that most of the people in this country are also victims of the same corporate mafia that is affecting their countries, or that the US has the most far-reaching and effective media propaganda machine the world has ever known.

Oh yeah, they're almost ready to accept us as sacrificial scapegoats for the crimes of the elite.

Is there to be another witch hunt,
has jesus christ deserted them so,
what outrageous libidinous funk,
hunt down the poor, kick from below.

Benign time forgiving beloved death,
jesus suffers then dies from the blow,
profound giving in every breath,
ambient air already knows.

Nobody knows who knows who knows,
misrepresented artistic loo, however low,
thickening mindstates come to blows,
ancient stillness windless flow.
Skewered on a living spit and dying,
mother didn't give a shit, i'm crying.

.. Among others, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has bemoaned the state of America's image and the efforts to improve it.

The United States spends about $1 billion a year on international broadcasting and the public relations campaign it calls "public diplomacy," run out of the State Department by former top Bush campaign operative Karen Hughes. Separately, the Pentagon directs its own "information operations" and psychological operations programs that have included paying journalists in Iraq to write favorable newspaper articles.

"We probably deserve a D or D-plus as a country as how well we're doing in the battle of ideas," Rumsfeld said March 27 at the U.S. Army War College in Carlisle, Pa. "We're going to have to find better ways to do it and thus far we haven't."

There have been 30 reports in recent years on the need to improve public diplomacy, including one in May by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress. The GAO found that 15 percent of the critical public diplomacy positions around the world were vacant. Among those diplomats on the job, one in three lacked the foreign language skills to communicate effectively, the GAO said......

Few analysts expect more than marginal improvements in global public opinion, short of another 9/11.

"In my judgment, you're going to see a lot of this hostility disappear only when various countries really feel they need friendly relations with the United States, probably for their own security," said Solomon. "It will probably take some major event for that to take place."

will have a positive affect on these figures.

that is what that paragraph sounds like.

I am not too concerned. the US will, and should, always be willing to help out. other countries know who to call when the going gets rough. the US will respond despite any "perceptions".

it's his blinkered view of world opinion, not a reflection of reality.

and overthrowing democratic governments that did not ask to be overthrown. This is how the US typically helps out other countries. The US typically responds, and responds violently and brutally, when nobody has even called!

n/t

Haiti, Guatemala, Chile, Panama, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Iran, Grenada, Santo Domingo, Angola ... and that's just for openers ...

I agree there have been alot of interventions. but from your post, I take it there are not justifiable reasons for military intervention.

what is your take on Darfur? Rwanda?

and Baby Doc are American created dictators, and brutal ones at that. We have invaded and reinvaded Haiti about 4 or 5 times in the past century it really is beginning to get ridiculous.

The problem isn't that we go into nations for altruistic reasons, the problem is that we don't. We go in for business interests only, and if that involves stomping poor people along the way, well, how else is American business to dominate?

It is no longer - just the government... The American people supported the
Regressive policies of the Rethug administration.

THUS, the worlds anger is justified against the people as well as the government !

It shouldn't be any surprise that our policies follow the dogma of the "me" generation.

Compassion and understanding isn't what America is about.

but hey, if believing in the legitimacy of vapor ballots and republican-owned voting machines is preferable--have at it!

if they didn't they couldn't have stolen the election.

the world is simply seeing the reality we've come to.

not in '04, and certainly not today. And this is true in spite of the corporate media and a bizarrely ineffective opposition party.

I believe he is polling at 32% -- and only about 60% of those who voted for him still support him.

America had a great reputation up to NOW!!!

I bet you will see a whole lot less Americans traveling abroad from now on. What is the point in leaving a country you live in to go to another country when you are hated? None that I can see.

As far as those coming here to visit, I bet they will have a great time especially being the dollar is worth .75 cents or so.

We like them just fine but they hate us. Nice alright, real nice. :(

:kick:

yea sure.:sarcasm:

If the dollar drops through the cellar, fewer and fewer Americans will go abroad for the simple reason that foreign travel will be too pricey. Of course, I'm cynical enough to wonder if that's what many conservatives really want. Just as the old Soviet Block restricted travel for political reasons, US Banana Republicans would use a "free market" solution to keep US citizens from wising up to the possibility that there are better ways of governance than what the Banana Republicans are doing to us.

If foreign travel is restricted to billionaires and the very well-to-do, the faint whisper of "European welfare states" and "renewable energy programs" would diminish even further, since those wealthy folks are among the politically most reliable.

"national security" and a general fear of foreign travel will keep many Americans at home.

The fewer Americans abroad travel, the worse it will get

what are we going to do about this??????

A very small majority 50.73% gave him a second term. These polls could be reflecting that reality.

"Dear World,

Sorry, we did our best.

- Half of the US"

didn't know any better. The MSM hid the truth from them about 9/11, WMD, Election Fraud etc. etc.

There are millions of parasites in this country--leaches upon the rest of the world.

...thank you very little and f*ck you very much George bu$h.

I bet they are glad to hear this:sarcasm:

here that is for sure.

than the countries they emigrated from hey??

our policies wiped out their jobs, so now they come here. Trust me, they would rather see their own countries prosper -- we just won't let them.

But our policies don't just cause immigration to the states. Thanks to "plan Colombia", 2 million Colombians have fled their country to live in Venezuela (which has a population of 25 million, so 2 million is A LOT of immigrants -- and that is just from Colombia!).

the resulting social instability from the war. Not from Plan Colombia.

when did latin america ever have alot of jobs?

during the colonial era of slavery perhaps???

especially the Irish, who have decided that life is better back home in Ireland than in the US.

US wages don't compensate for living expenses (esp healthcare) and a booming Irish economy has lead many to "de-immigrate"

n/t

He went back to live and he lasted all of 3 months. He's back again and I am personally glad as I like him a great deal. He couldn't take the cold weather and the non-stop rain so he came back to the USA again. He also said it was just too expensive to live there and that is has changed so much he feels like it is completely different now. He came here in the 1950s and he has paid his dues, served in the military, etc.

I rather think he loves America.

:kick:

ANYTHING would be an improvement. The largest groups of new immigrants in the Twin Cities are from Somalia and Hmong refugee camps in Laos, in addition to the poorer countries of Latin American.

I know European immigrants who are trying to find jobs back "home."

That last line is actually the title for the next section of the article, but it may as well be a summary of what Solomon did. Despite being "a veteran diplomat", this man, who runs a federally-funded organisation, responds to the poll:

• by bragging about what he claims is a good thing about the USA
  
• by gratuitously insulting the French
  
• by trying to cover up the reasons for the invasion of Iraq
  
• by claiming "they hate us for our attempt at spreading freedom"
  
• by knocking the French again, and also the Germans
  
• by whining that it's what the US has to do for the good of the world ("White Man's Burden", anyone?)
  
• by dividing the world into 'us' (ie the USA) and 'the bad guys'
  

He may as well be John Bolton, for all the diplomacy he shows.



Oh God, he must be a member of the PNAC. Is it a threat, a wish, or a prediction?

i've long felt that our country is much too heavily tilted toward 'competition', and an self-centered individualist viewpoint with much less emphasis on 'cooperation', which is ultimately much more important, from a societal perspective.

rodnet king spoke volumes about america when he said: "can't we all just get along?"

"better" people.

Which would be a crock of you-know-what.

I've never given a damn whether or not I am 'liked' by other people.

There are people who i very much respect who my ego hopes like, yes.

I can't deny that emotion, isn't it human, to want acceptance with
people you consider your betters or your peers, or whatever it is
you respect and love in others... or just people you find beautiful?

A million stories, a million anonymous ranting rages and insults taken
across the planet, in every misstepping deed of feet.

"to want acceptance with
people you consider your betters or your peers"

that is extremely sad. If you consider people to be "better" they will know that and NEVER treat with you respect.

I am not speaking of any public figures people discuss on DU,
but some very mystical and sublime persons exist on this earth,
incredibly beautiful people.

I mean that in terms of love, maybe if someone loves
very purely, it is so beautiful, you confess, that they are
your better, yes? That is how i view the scale, just so its clearer
that remark. A person who loves very much, who is willing to be
grand, great hearted and forgiving, whether it is really the individual
ego, it is morally "better".

I'm still half in a post-modernist discussion, and there is a high
and a low culture. I mean "better" in that higher abstract and those
who well embody it. Maybe in loving, i don't care about higher or lower,
as i feel like nothing, just a lover, and then everyone is better, its
ok. Everyone gets to be better, when they're with the ones they love.

Have you ever been a member of a religious community?
If jesus christ is not your better, how do you hear him?
If your inner enlightenment is not your better, how do you hear it?
There is a moral scale.

but I thought you were talking in the nationalist sense. as in, the Dutch are superior.

you want your reputation dragged thru the dirt? i'd say you're an idiot, but that would be a personal attack so I won't. You're not an idiot. not even a little bit.

you????

to be hated. Did you read the article?

again, I have done nothing. I do not seek their acceptance necessarily. I do not REQUIRE it.


oh and another thing, I don't believe other people should be puting us on a pedestal anywat. I attempt to be neither hated nor worshiped.

this has to do with more than just you. this has to do with how americans are perceived worldwide and if you could see beyond your nose for a second perhaps you'd realize that puts real people in real jeopardy. As long as you see it as your own problem, or lack of problem rath. . . why do I fucking bother? You're not having a serious conversation with me, you couldn't possibly be because you are being so ridiculously short-sighted and selfish.

I've shown that again and again right here on this thread.

I do not want to be worshiped by foreigners. if you want to be treated well and welcomed when traveling abroad, then comport yourself accordingly. there is little you can do about the behavior of others.

nope.

people from other countries think.

Who'd you vote for last time around? Just curious.

enjoy your stay. welcome to fucking DU!

I hear that EVERY DAY here in Egypt.

The other day I was passing some time in a Nile Delta farming village. One of the locals came up to me with a very angry expression, made a vigorous "thumbs down" gesture, and exclaimed "Boosh no good!"

Then he switched to a "thumbs up," smiled at me, and said: "Bill Clinton mea-mea!" ("Mea-mea" means "100 per cent," or "very good.")

:rofl:

OTOH, the Egyptians still do genuinely like Americans in general. I haven't had one cross word directed at me personally or the American people. Sadly, I have had them ask "why do the American people hate Arabs." I've heard that more than once.

nous ne sommes pas toutes americains aujourd-hui. pas mal.