Crowd joins widow to seek memorial for Wiccan soldier

wonder where Harry Reid is on this?

May 30, 2006

In a park in rural Northern Nevada, bells chimed Monday in memory of Sgt. Patrick Stewart, who died last September in Afghanistan but who has been denied a veteran's memorial plaque that recognizes his religion.

The bells, his widow Roberta Stewart said, are part of the Wiccan faith. It's a belief in the divine in nature, but it's a religion not among the 38 -- including atheism -- recognized by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs.

Stewart said that in the nine months since her husband died fighting for freedom, the Veterans Affairs department has continued to deny him the freedom of religion guaranteed under this country's Bill of Rights.

"Today, we have honored his memory and the freedom of all faiths in the manner in which he would have wanted," Roberta Stewart told the group of about 300 people gathered in the Out of Town Park in Fernley for the Sgt. Patrick Stewart Freedom for All Faiths Memorial Service.

more...

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060530/NEWS10/605300350/1002

Isn't he the Senator in your state who is up for election? Why spend so much time knocking around Harry Reid instead of knocking around Ensign and finding out if Jack Carter is helping out this Sgt.

That's kind of my point. We never make Republicans pay, or even take a stand, on their extremist views. We're too busy beating up Democrats.

And because DEMS DO supposedely represent us on the issues?

How do I make repubs "pay"??- I dont send them money, volunteer or vote for them as it is.

I EXPECT Republicans to go against my interests, not Democrats.

Your arguemnt that we should criticise Republicans whenever DEMS fail to represent us is as flat as a pancake.

If we don't do it, who is? Do you really think we should rely on the right wing to beat up their own party forever??

If you have a problem with an ISSUE, you argue the ISSUE, not the Democrat. When you want to beat up an individual, you beat up a Republican. How hard is that??

THEY have the power and the media access to "beat up on them" a lot more than I do. Often they are just too frightened to do so.

And your point about issues- what am I supposed to do when a Democrat and a Republican AGREE on an issue that I disagree with?

Should I criticise only the Republican and be a hypocrite, or just ignore the issue?

will follow. Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.

I guess that coordinated effort did not show enough leadership qualities on our part, so the leaders ignored us- or something like that.

No offense- but your advice sounds like school-house rock civics mythology. The only thing some of these DEMS understand is big checks. Many of them could care less how much we try to "lead" them.

to claim they're discriminated in this country. There has been a true attack on their religion from Christians for centuries.

Talk about something worth fighting for - this is one of the fundamental rights we have as an American. The government better back down on this soon or deal with a battle they will lose in the end.

they've been obstructed time and again. It's not fair.

The VA has been giving several Pagan and Wiccan groups the run-around for nine years now.

The ironic thing is the Military recognizes Pagans and Wiccans. The Air Force even, at last report, has a Pagan group for recruits undergoing basic training at Lackland AFB.

And a LOT of my fellow Pagans are former or current military.

:rofl:

Am I the only one who thinks that's hilarious?

-Hoot

Since being of the Wiccan religion is surely not the same as being an atheist, I fail to see what you find so hilarious.

Let alone it is accepted. The dichotomy is fucking hilarious to me. The symbology possibilities are mind blowing.

-Hoot

Atheism is not a religion, and does not have religious symbols.

It is important to differentiate between the two, because I think that many are under the impression that they are one and the same. They are not.

As defined by Wikipedia...

Wicca:
Wicca is a Neopagan religion or religious movement found in many different countries, though most commonly in English-speaking cultures.
<snip>
In 1985, as a result of Dettmer v. Landon, 617 F. Supp. 592, the District Court of Virginia ruled that Wicca is a legally recognised religion and is afforded all the benefits accorded to it by law. This was affirmed a year later by Judge J. Butzner of the Federal Appeals Court fourth circuit (799 F 2d 929, 1986).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca



Atheism:
Although many people who self-identify as atheists tend to share common skeptical concerns regarding evidence and often adhere to philosophies such as naturalism and humanism, there is no single ideology that all atheists share, nor does atheism have any institutionalized rituals or behaviors. Indeed, atheism is inspired by many rationales, encompassing personal, social, philosophical, and historical reasoning. Additionally, although atheism is commonly equated with irreligion in Western culture, there are certain individuals whose religious or spiritual beliefs some might describe as atheistic. Atheism is not normally defined as being equivalent with the ideology known as antitheism, the active opposition to theism or God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

How am I not being clear?

Yes I know the difference between atheism, agnosticism, wicca, rastafaraianism, etc.

My point is atheism is not a freaking religion, how the F can it have symbols accepted by the VA?

I think that that there is an accepted symbol is over the top funny. That there isn't a wiccan symbol, or a rasta symbol for that matter (I didn't check but wouldn't expect there to be one) is outrageous.

Sheesh
-Hoot

I see the part in the original OP you were referring to now...

"it's a religion not among the 38 -- including atheism -- recognized by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs."

So please accept my apology. I'll leave my post above unedited, though, because I deserve the scorn of later readers for not reading the original post more closely.

Blushingly repentant (in an atheistic way, naturally),

Maggie

:blush:

I understood what Hoot was saying, but also appreciated your post about the history of Wiccanism. There is still a lot of misunderstanding about Paganism and Wiccanism. Can't provide the facts too often. Thank you both!

:hi: to both Maggie and Hoot!

I't just so frustrating when I think I'm being clear and get a raft of answers that I think are non-sequitors.

-Hoot

ATHEISTMAN!!

They need to add Superman's "S" to the list of acceptable logos, too.

Not Atheism. Most certainly not Atheism.

Holy oddly-shaped nuclei Batman!

-Hoot

When I ask myself "What Would Jesus Do?" I truly believe he would see that this soldier gets the recognition of the faith the he professes. The ignorance in this administration when it comes to religion astounds me.

their wishes should be respected. To place a Wiccan symbol on a grave should be a no fucking brainer.

Still doing it.

a claim to 'fire up' the religious right????

I have a friend who was a Jewish chaplain's assistant in the Army about 15 years ago, and she sent me a number of articles on the subject.

Maybe b/c the Wiccan gravestone is too easily noticed by the religious right????

I think the wiccan symbol would have been allowed during the Clinton administration, not because Clinton supports wicca, but because he wasn't controlled by fundamentalist loonies.

They meet the spiritual needs of the soldier, not their own spiritual ideologies. They don't try to persuade or convert.

In the first Gulf Fiasco, after we slaughtered an unarmed and retreating Iraqi division, a chaplain was with the unit that found the field covered with the thousands of bodies. He was himself a rabbi, but did an ablution (as much as was possible) and Muslim funeral rite for each body.

Similarly, chaplains are supposed to give spiritual comfort combatants (on both sides), whatever their beliefs are. Chaplains are taught to help Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, Satanists (yes, Satanists), secular humanists, Rastafarians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jains, Zoroastarians; anything you can think of (clearly, some sects are given more perfunctery training than others, but at least in principle).

One disturbing trend you may have seen cataloged in a few places is the takeover of large parts of the chaplain corps by Fundamentalist Evangelical Christians. These chaplains have been cited in a few reports for attempting to convert people to their style of Christianity rather than meet the troops' current needs. This is a troubling development.

Wicca is recognized by the military and is part of the chaplain's manuals, and several pagans are recognized as lay leaders, (in addition to their normal duties). But there are no Pagan or Wiccan chaplains as such serving in the military.


http://www.milpagan.org/

http://www.circlesanctuary.org/militarypagansupport/

I guess that's only for PR purposes, and doesn't extend to soldiers putting whatever they want on their memorials -- even if it's a Wiccan pentacle.

He tried to stop the military from allowing Pagan religious observances when he was governor in Texas.

The military has been way ahead of bushco in the area of religious tolerance, but bushco is doing their best to take care of that.

I'd always suspected that he was the type of person to take part in "witch hunts", and there he is, disrespecting pagans. His dad made dismissive remarks about agnostics and atheists, I seem to recall. I wonder if any of his ancestors were in the Inquisition or something.

Seriously? I don't get it. If you subscribe to one belief, that strongly implies that you think all others are incorrect regardless of your faith-or lack there of. Ergo, all others but your own are probably incorrect-so why should it matter if there's another one out there? I am not saying you shouldn't respect others beliefs, but you probably think they are wrong or you would convert.

This should be a non-issue. If a solider dies, he or she should be honored in the way they choose. Why should anyone have a right to choose which faith is credible? It's dumb.

It's the VA. The military officially recognizes several Neo-Pagan groups and faiths. The VA, however, is dragging their heels on recognizing these faiths on grave markers