Saudis Allege Torture in Guantanamo Deaths

The reported suicides of two Saudi detainees at Guantanamo Bay intensified Saudi anger at the camp, drawing questions Sunday about whether the men really killed themselves or were driven to it by torture. The detention of more than 130 Saudis at the U.S. jail has long grated on people in the kingdom, and there was marked skepticism that the prisoners committed suicide. ``The families don't believe it, and of course I don't believe it either,'' said Kateb al Shimri, a lawyer who represents relatives of Saudis held at Guantanamo. ``A crime was committed here and the U.S. authorities are responsible,'' al Shimri said, echoing the general sentiment heard in the Saudi capital, Riyadh.

Al Shimri said he planned to sue the U.S. government for compensation on behalf of the relatives of the deceased. The kingdom's semiofficial human rights organization called for an independent investigation into the deaths of the two Saudis, who were identified Sunday by Saudi officials as Mani bin Shaman bin Turki al Habradi and Yasser Talal Abdullah Yahya al Zahrani. A Yemini prisoner also killed himself early Saturday, U.S. authorities said. His identity was not released. Many Saudis denounced the suicide claim as a fabrication, and some accused U.S. authorities of complicity in the inmates' deaths.

``There are no independent monitors at the detention camp so it is easy to pin the crime on the prisoners, given that it's possible they were tortured,'' said Mufleh al-Qahtani, deputy director of the state-sponosred Saudi Human Rights Group. Saleh al-Khathlan, director of monitoring at the rights group, explicitly accused Guantanamo officials of torturing detainees. ``Even if the suicide story is true, I have no doubts that they were pushed to it by torture and the lack of attention paid to the health of the detainees,'' he said. The families of other Saudi detainees also questioned the U.S. version.

``They were killed; they were murdered. This was no suicide,'' said Lulua al Dakheel, whose son, 22-year-old Fahed al Fouzan, has been at Guantanamo for more than four years. Speaking through tears, she added: ``There are no guarantees that my son won't be next. These people (U.S. officials) can't be trusted. They treat their dogs better than they treat our sons.'' Some people in the conservative Islamic kingdom questioned whether Muslim men would kill themselves since suicide is a grave sin in Islam. But defense lawyers and some former detainees said many prisoners at Guantanamo are wasting away in deep despair at their long captivity.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5879509,00.html

How true! Americans treat their dogs better than they treat the rest of the world. The entire world can starve to death but, as long as gas is relatively cheap, many of our compatriots could care less.

Look at the failure of our political system, including the main opposition party, to condemn torture and the concentration camps at Guanatanamo and elsewhere.

with all the human-rights abuses they commit in the name of Islam. They treat their camels better than they treat their women!

We may not have the best human rights record since the Bushies have taken over the government but the American people are by-and-large humane and don't deserve to be labeled.

and you say "we may not have the best human rights record" and are worried about being "labeled"?

Holy fuck. I can't believe I am reading this.

No more handholding with Saudi men for Shrub! Heh.

Talk about calling the kettle black......Geesh

They routinely torture people. Their human rights record is appalling

"They treat their dogs better than they treat our sons" "There are no independent monitors at the detention camp"

That is complete bullshit.

is to get their people riled up about another country doing these wrongs for two reasons:

1. It shows that SA is not worse than other countries (the US)

2. It appeals to nationalism-the mindset being it is ok for our government to do this to our own people, but not right for another country to do the same thing.

Either way, it distracts the public from local issues and gets them enraged about another country so they ignore things done at home....hmm....sounds familiar.....

in US custody at Gitmo.

There is no "pot" and no "kettle"

The simple truth is that I do NOT want my country to be equal to the Saudi's in human rights abuses. And the even more basic truth is that when it comes to the treatment of people in our custody during this so-called "war" on terror, the United States track record equals that of some of the basest totalitarian regimes.

Think of Abu Ghraib - think of Gitmo - Fallujah - the way we brought Saddams sons and Zarqawi to "justice" - the rendition program - the torture - the "disappearing" of people into legal black holes.

The United States has had its honor dragged through the sewar by the Bush regime. We are supposed to have the high moral ground. We are supposed to be a democracy - a land ruled by LAW. A country that upholds the Geneva conventions. We are no longer that bright shining beacon of freedom.

"pot" "kettle" The comparison is FAR TOO APT.

And she is completely correct in her statement that we treat our dogs better than their sons. That is fact. I am NOT comforted by the thought the Saudi's also torture. America is not supposed to sink to that level - but under Bush we have.

THAT is what is appalling.

suicide in Germany maybe a month ago.

Autopsy, Pakistani rep was present for it. The body was returned to Pakistan for burial, the parents, politicians, and religious folk said there was no way he committed suicide. It was a conspiracy. The government was involved in a cover-up.

Suicide is haram, forbidden.

Suicide would dishonor the family, clan, and ummah.

Suicide would yield no monetary compensation or sense of victimization.

Suicide would yield nothing that would feed the xenophobia and indignation that Pakistani politics feeds on. Suicide is decadent; they're better than westerners.

Suicide would yield no additional grounds for alleging that Musharraf's government wasn't corrupt and needed to be replaced by a 'democratic' one that would shove shari'a down everybody's throats.

Wishful thinking, I know, but it could happen.

Don't count on it.