Hymn At Talent Show Becomes Court Case

TRENTON, N.J. - June 15, 2006 (UPI) -- A federal judge must decide whether officials at a New Jersey school went too far when they banned an 8-year-old girl from singing a hymn in a talent show.

The girl wanted to perform "Awesome God."

Officials in Frenchtown, a blue-collar town on the Delaware River 30 miles northwest of Trenton, told the Christian Science Monitor the problem was not that the song is religious. But they found some lyrics -- like "His return is very close and so you better be believing that our God is an awesome God" -- too graphic and evangelizing for an elementary school audience.

"This is tolerance and political correctness gone awry," Maryann Turton, the girl's mother, said. "This is a much bigger picture than just our daughter in our little town. It is going on everywhere."

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/breakingnews/article_21223431.shtml

as long as my kids (if I had any) were allowed to sing a song by Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), such as "Bismillah Er Rahman, Er Rahim." Might actually be instructive.

at the schoolhouse door. The school authorities have no right to suppress her choice of a religious song (even if her parents are behind it).

For example, assuming kids that age actually listen to the lyrics of the songs they hear.

Don't agree with the song, but since the song itself is not school sponsored, she should be allowed to sing.

But I am not at all certain that those faulty assumptions are all being made by the School District, GC.

Was it something I said? Or something else not mentioned?

The God is coming thing is inappropriate, prosetylization is not for a school function I support the school board. Better to err on the side of caution. They would definitely not allow a Muslim hymn as ayeshahaqqiqa points out.

school for the arts with a song from Les Miserables, commonly referred to as "The Prayer" (name of the son is "Bring Him Home").

It is a beautiful song and he sings it well. Would this be considered inappropriate for a school function? (Keep in mind that I am not religious and do not consider myself a Christian, although I do believe I have a rich spiritual life.)

If this song is over the top for a school funtion, what makes it so? If not, what makes it different from the unacceptable?

Where is the dividing line? A middle school chorus sang "Amazing Grace" for their Winter Concert two years ago. While this song has been around for many many years, it is also a song that proselytizes. What makes one song acceptable while another is not? When I was in high school, we used to sing parts of "The Messiah" by Handel. How is "The Messiah" acceptible when the lyrics for this masterpiece are lifted straight from the New Testament?


Bring Him Home
Les Miserables

HERBERT KRETZMER (Lyrics)
CLAUDE-MICHEL SCHÖNBERG (Music and Book)

God on high
Hear my prayer
In my need
You have always been there
He is young
He's afraid
Let him rest
heaven blessed
Bring him home
Bring him home
Bring him home

He's like the son
I might have known
If God had granted me a son
The summers die
One by one
How soon they fly
On and on
And I am old
And will be gone

Bring him peace
Bring him joy
He is young
He is only a boy
You can take
You can give
Let him be
Let him live
If I die
Let me die
Let him live

Bring him home
Bring him home
Bring him home

of the parents behind this. "Awesome God" isn't exactly "Jesus Loves the Little Children" in terms of it's difficulty level and suitability to be sung by an 8 year old.

Plus it is NOT a hymn...it's a bit of that christian pseudo-rock dreck from the 80s.

I don't remember that line they're upset about, but it's definitely not a hymn. It's a praise chorus, usually, in my experience.

When He rolls up His sleeves
He ain't just puttin' on the ritz
(our God is an awesome God)
There is thunder in His footsteps
And lightning in His fist
(our God is an awesome God)
Well, the Lord wasn't joking
When He kicked 'em out of Eden
It wasn't for no reason that He shed his blood
His return is very close and so you better be believing
that our God is an awesome God

REFRAIN
Our God(our God) is an awesome God
He reigns(He reigns) from heaven above
With wisdom(with wisdom) pow'r and love
our God is an awesome God

And when the sky was starless in the void of the night
(our God is an awesome God)
He spoke into the darkness and created the light
(our God is an awesome God)
Judgment and wrath he poured out on to Sodom
Mercy and grace He gave us at the cross
I hope that we have not too quickly forgotten that
our God is an awesome God

Refrain x3

Our God is an awesome God
Our God is an awesome God
(Our God is an awesome God)
(Our God is an awesome God)

They seem like the sort of "scare kids about God's wrath" lyrics that I hated and couldn't understand as a kid myself.

"And lightning in His fist" - God can kill you if he feels like it.

"It wasn't for no reason that He shed his blood" - Some gory blood imagery.

"His return is very close and so you better be believing" - God will get you soon, if you don't believe everything you are told.

"Judgement and wrath on Sodom" - make sure pre-teens are primed to hate gays in a few years.

"Mercy and grace He gave us at the cross" - I could never figure out why Jesus had to be tortured over anything I did.

It is pretty preachy for a public school. Imagine how it would be received if the line was "Our Allah is an awesome Allah"

That accident prevented him from writing any more dreck

wrote some pretty decent songs- this isn't one of them-
And I wouldn't be surprised if he would actually have been against this war, and this administration.- He was a 'ragamuffin' - he wasn't 'mainstream'-

One of his songs is prefaced by this observation :

Intro to Higher Education and the Book of Love

What does it mean to be human? What does it mean to be human? I cannot help but suspect that at one time in the history of thinking that people believed that it meant that we were spiritual and that we could make choices and were capable of aspiring to higher ideals... like maybe loyalty or maybe faith... or maybe even love. But now we told by people who think they know, that we vary from amoeba only in the complexity of our makeup and not in what we essentially are. They would have us think as Dysart said that we are forever bound up in certain genetic reigns - that we are merely products of the way things are and not free - not free to be the people who make them that way. They would have us see ourselves as products so that we could believe that we were something to be made - something to be used and then something to be disposed of. Used in their wars - used for their gains and then set aside when we get in their way. Well, who are they? They are the few who sit at the top of the heap - dung heap though it is - and who say it is better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven. Well, I do not know that we can have a Heaven here on earth, but I am sure we need not have a Hell either. What does it mean to be human? I cannot help but believe that it means we are spiritual - that we are responsible and that we are free - that we are responsible to be free. Rich Mullins

Not easy to 'pigeon hole' him- He was 'different'.

And as to the song this girl chose, it's easy to sing- and while I wouldn't have liked it if one of my kids chose to sing it, I believe this girl has a right to sing this- I wouldn't like it if one of my kids chose "not that innocent"- either.

peace,
blu

is Fred Phelps. Congratulations.

I remember this song from my childhood and when we went to Christian camp, we all new the lyrics and how to sing it... Its a really nice sounding song, so I'm not surprised that she would want to sing it especially if this is what her parents like her to listen to... and I'm sorry it so much better than britney girating around the stage singing "I'm a slave to you..."

I don't actually care for Britney doing Britney. Too bad she couldn't split the difference and do George Harrison's "My sweet lord". That's got an ecumenical religious set of lyrics and a nice tune.

I don't care that it's about Gawd or Jeezus.

A little girl is singing that she has an invisible friend who is coming to kill her classmates. Her own all-powerful "Black Trenchcoat Mafia" in the sky.

It's not exactly "Jesus Loves The Little Children," now is it?

Why can you be arrested for making a bomb-threat in school, but not for threatening to sic your invisible friend upon your classmates?

Even the fact that some kid WANTS Gawd to kill their classmates makes that child a threat to school safety. What happens if they decide that Gawd isn't working fast enough, isn't killing the Sodomites, and they have to take matters into their own hands?

Sure, she can sing about Jeezus until she's blue in the face and her palms bleed... but nobody should be allowed to stand in front of a school microphone and joyously celebrate the prospect of their own schoolmates being slaughtered.

We are so used to this message that we forget what it sounds like when taken seriously. I guess most people, even Christians, don't really take it seriously.

That's why I pondered how it would be interpreted if the lyrics were changed to "My Allah is an awesome Allah", along with a few other relevant substitutions (say, the return of the Mahdi rather than Christ). Right wing TV pundits would be ranting about the terroristic threats implied by the lyrics.

How about if the little girl were singing THIS...

My Fuhrer is an Awesome Fuherer

<snip>

It wasn't for no reason that He burned their corpses
His return is very close and so you better be believing
that our Fuhrer is an awesome Fuhrer


Now... if the little girl were singing THAT... would we be so understanding? I hope not.


I decided to self-delete most of my Hitler-version of "Awesome God," because the last thing I want is for it to be enshrined on the 'net and become a new Nazi anthem. Although I bet someone already wrote something just like it anyway.

The leap from "Awesome Gawd" to "Awesome Fuhrer" is so small-- and so OBVIOUS-- that someone, somewhere must already have recorded it on a White Power record label.

I was right- Someone already did:

Site Title:, Our Führer is an awesome Führer!!!! Site Domain:, awesomefuhrer.ytmnd.com. Created by:, DirtbagDan. Created on:, 2006-01-07 09:09:56 ...
ytmnd.com/sites/profile/266763

I agree with the self-delete - your version of the lyrics are so effective that they could be misused. It goes to show how close one type of extremism is to another.

Turn! Turn! Turn! (song)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Turn! Turn! Turn!," also known by its full title "Turn! Turn! Turn! (to Everything There Is A Season)," is a song written by Pete Seeger, wherein Seeger set text from The Bible to music, specifically, a reading from the Book of Ecclesiastes, 3:1-8, in the Old Testament. Although written in the 1950s, Seeger would wait until 1962 to record it, releasing the song on his The Bitter and The Sweet album on Columbia Records.

The biblical text posits there being a time and place for all things, laughter to sorrow, healing to killing, war and peace, the lines therefore open to myriad interpretations. As a song, however, the text is commonly performed as a plea for world peace, with the stress on the closing line: "a time for peace, I swear it's not too late," the latter phrase the only part of the lyric composed by Seeger himself.

The song first appeared several months before the Seeger version on an album by the folk group The Limeliters on RCA Records, Folk Matinee, under the title "To Everything There Is A Season." One of their backing musicians, Jim McGuinn, would later work with folk singer Judy Collins, re-arranging the song to suit her style, now entitled "Turn! Turn! Turn! (to Everything There Is A Season)," for her Elektra album of 1964, Judy Collins #3.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn%21_Turn%21_Turn%21_%28song%29



See also:

Ecclesiastes 3

3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

More:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ec/3.html

you really buy the lie that * believes- and that is that HE is 'God'-

Mullens was singing about a spiritual higher power- not a physical leader-
If the girl was singing, my "muse" is an Awesome 'Muse' she reigns with wisdom power and love"
I wouldn't have a problem with that-

You've fallen into the trap of confusing bush, with somthing akin to a "diety"-

Trust me- he AIN'T! He just plays one on tv.

singing that-

my perspective on the real guts of this song, is in my reply in this post here-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2340714&mesg_id=2342145

I used to listen to a lot of this kind of music- I have also read many of Mullens' writings- (he wrote quite a few essays, that didn't sit well with 'fundies')-

Want to piss off a fundie? ask them how Christ can 'fulfil' the law- and yet advocate, and LIVE non-violence, and anti-war, anti-capitol punishment. They'll dance all around the issue- but there is not getting around it- Either He was a liar and a fraud, or the message in the bible, changed with his birth and death-

And to your question, no, it wouldn't bother me if she was singing "you better get ready, cause my muse is comin" Cause if her muse isn't 'about' me- or something I embrace, her muse is no threat, to me in any way- And she can sing her little heart out-

Where do you get the notion that this girl is singing that this girl's 'god' wants to kill all her classmates? I think you may be reading some other agenda into this- (and I understand that there IS an agenda, which would say what you are saying, but I don't see it here- S&G? that refrence goes over many peoples heads, and in this song, it's 'old news'-)

peace,
blu

forget how Awesome He is and forget to worship appropriately.

My mistake.

I guess some of the other eighth-graders would survie her Awesome Gawd's bloodbath.

argue with you, or defend the way 'christ'ianity has portrayed their version of 'god'-

The CHRIST I believe in, and who taught humans to treat others with kindness, patience, mercy, and compassion wouldn't endorse any 'bloodbath'-
If the god you speak of truly does exist, and would do the kinds of things you describe, then hell, I'll be happy to be killed in the blood bath- I wouldn't want to exist in a place where that kind of hatred and evil was not only accepted but worshipped.

peace,
blu

(I don't believe that the bible is the inspired in-errant word of god, and I also don't believe that god hates, kills and destroys. Nor that god delights in the death of anyone)

Silencing this girl however- only gives power to the delusion, (in my off-beat and wierd opinion) that god killed all the people of Sodom and Gemorrah due to 'homosexuality'- and that god is gonna get you if you aren't good- as defined by some wierd rules cherry-picked from some translation of what is refered to today, as the old testament.

But the Gawd described in the song wants to murder children.

For example, most people know Santa Claus as a jolly old man who delivers presents to good children on Xmas Eve.

But if I want to critique the motivation-- or negligence-- of the Santa portrayed in the song, "Grandma Got Run-Over by a Reindeer," that doesn't mean that I'm disrespecting your personal version of Santa-- any more than I'm disrespecting your personal version of The Invisible Man in the Sky by criticizing the bloodthirsty lyrics of the song "Awesome Gawd."

I am sure that to you The Invisible Man In The Sky is very nice. I won't dispute that. Many people, throughout history, have held the belief that Gawd and Jeezus are peaceful-- unfortunately, most of those people have traditionally been KILLED by those who believe Gawd and Jeezus are pissed-off about something-or-other.

However, the song that this sweet little eight-year old wants to sing says that HER Invisible Man In The Sky wants to kill all the eight year-old Sodomites and non-believers.

If she wants to sing, "My Santa Claus is an Awesome Santa and he's going to kill the Sodomites," it makes no sense to argue, "But MY belief is that Santa is GOOD! So let her sing the song about Santa murdering her classmates."

Usually, it's a bad idea to allow children to sing songs welcoming the deaths of their classmates.

wish to argue religion with you- or try and convince you to believe anything that you chose not to-
But the words to this song do NOT say "God wants to murder your classmates"- And there are many many traditional songs that could be sung which are equally offensive, and touch on perspectives that open wounds in others-NOT because of the song itself, but because of previous 'history' or sensitivity to issues that push buttons.

Is this an eight year old girl, or an eighth grader?- there is a BIG difference in maturity between the two- in one post she's called an eight year old- in another, an eighth grader.
I find the star spangled banner offensive, because it glorifies a piece of cloth- and war- and claims that THAT is what makes this nation worthy of 'honor'- That killing and murder are the bastions of 'bravery'- It took a hell of a lot more bravery for Gandhi to face his enemies without any weapons, and without raising a hand in his own defense-
So, what songs will we 'allow' kids to sing? And if we are going to censor what children can sing based on 'our' perceptions, what kind of a 'free' country do you envision???- Explicitly stating that gay people and anyone who doesn't march to the christian reicht's view of a 'deity'- would be a different story-

Your words, and the lyrics, aren't one and the same- even though I DO understand how you reach your conclusion, and acknowledge that there are those who would intend the song to be interpreted that way-
Tolerance is a 'two way street'- if you silence this girl because you don't like what you hear as her message, then be prepared to be silenced yourself- regardless of how benign you words may truly be.-

again- peace, I don't have any beef with you-
blu

"A federal judge must decide whether officials at a New Jersey school went too far when they banned an 8-year-old girl from singing a hymn in a talent show."

I agree that this is a strange choice for an eight year old - if she really wants to sing a religious song, something like "Jesus loves all the little children of the world" would be more appropriate. I mean, 8 years old is usually only grade 3. This song seems more like a teen ditty.

But just rememember all the terrible things my Invisible Friend did to those who disagreed with me.

He's AWESOME!


:P

remember all the terrible things people have done to others CLAIMING to be doing it 'for god' or 'country' or '______' -

And none of them are fooling anyone. I despise the notion that people use religion to hide their own rage, anger, fear, desire for revenge- hatred, predjuce behind. But I can't blame anyone but the person themself-
I answer for everything I have ever done, regardless of the 'reasons' or the 'circumstances' or any other outside influence. And things done to me 'in the name of 'god' were done by people- human beings, who chose to do what they did, and are solely responsible for their actions-

Awesomeness isn't some kind of excuse for human cruelty and hate- the only ones fooled by that are those who are afraid of themselves.- And DON'T believe there is a force that sees behind the lies.

peace to you-
And I'm sorry for your scars and wounds,

blu

"Judgment and wrath he poured out on to Sodom
Mercy and grace He gave us at the cross
I hope that we have not too quickly forgotten that
our God is an awesome God"

Meaning, if you take the bible at face value, the OT 'God'- was a vengeful angry god, but it all changed with Jesus- Mercy and Grace are not punishment and 'just deserts'- It is unmerited, unasked for un-earned pardon....
So all the breast beating "righteous christ'ians' who believe their 'following the rules' makes them 'acceptable' have to dismiss, and be-little the message of GRACE, MERCY, and INCLUSION" that Jesus' life embodied-
He ate with tax-collectors, he let 'unclean' WOMEN touch him (horrors) and he even talked to THEM!!- When asked who 'our neighbor' was, he said, the person you would least desire to help'- When asked how to revenge wrong, he said, with kindness-

The Christ in the name "christ"ian- is often forgotten, ignored, or betrayed, by those who claim it, but refuse to live it, or truly embrace him.

i.e. "the mercy and grace" version of God. But the Trinity is a tricky concept, quite beyond me. In general, though, I agree that lots of Christians ignore the majority of what Jesus said, in preference to the Old Testament sections that emphasize vengeance.

and when they do- they should be called out on it-

Mullens was big on mercy and grace- at least what I know of him-
He was humble, and admitted his human failings-

He really did go against many fundies 'grain'-

The message of the New Testament is all about grace, mercy, and not judging others, but of spreading 'GOOD NEWS'= which is the literal translation of the world gospel-
Nothing very 'good' about being told you'll burn in hell if you don't do or live up to the impossible-

Just my take- and my pet peeve-
I understand what you are saying- I just won't let people who claim the 'name' to deny the message, which is quite different than what those who would like to control others, and judge their 'righteousness'- If they believe the New Testament, they can't live by 'the law'- or force others to-
Doing that denies Christ-
So why would they want to associate themselves with him???-

Peace,
blu

The songwriter could have picked any number of incidents where his god was a beligerent asshole, but he went with the one that's usually interpreted to mean god hates gays. Doubt that was unintentional.

absolutely

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the first amendment. This was not an official school address, this was a song choice in a talent show. Back in the 60's the RW wanted to ban certain song sales from the Beatles and other groups. This is no different. And the lyrics they seem to have taken issue with aren't graphic at all...so I think the school erred.

Thought police scare me--whether from the right or the left. Unless this was somehow a sham cooked up by the government, i.e. the school (which obviously it wasn't), then free speech should prevail.

I don't think it was the appropriate venue for such a song, but that's my opinion. Part of participating in the public debate--even if it's just a talent show--means that I have to hear things I may not like.

:D

Although, to be fair, I've seen some amazing kids.

For example, "Mister President" by Pink.

Or even better, "Imagine" by John Lennon.

Or maybe, "Hallejulah, Evolution" or "Dumb, Dumb Dorothy".

is working.

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But that doesn't appear to be the case.

If the school has me (chooses for me) sing a song about Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Mormans, Wiccans, Athiests or even Episcopalians doesn't establish those (already established religions/non-religions) any more than having me sing Blue Moon makes the moon change color.

It's easy to see where this conversation will end up so I'll cut to the chase: Name one contender with Presidential ambitions that argues "under God" is unconstitutional in the pledge. You won't get Bayh, Biden, Clinton, Edwards, Kerry (and on and on) to sign up and drink that koolade.

I don't know all the amendments by heart, but it is not correct to try to claim some are more valid than others just because they are earlier in time or number. In fact, a good case might be made that later amendments are actually more valid than earlier ones, given that they have more relevance to the presence. But even that would be wrong.

or that one was more valid than another. Of course that is true in some cases, especially where the 21st amendment is more valid than the 18th which was repealed by the 21st. Instead, my thrust was that until the 14th amendment, constitutional limits on congress didn't restrict state actions. The term "Congress shall not..." had no effect prohibiting a state. The 14th Amendment extending individual rights, as applied by states, is the lynchpin in landmark cases such as Brown v. Board of Education and Roe v. Wade.

Let the girl sing "Awesome God."

the song is not inclusive and it insinuates very intolerant and wrong things.

You can sing a song about Jesus, just not one that says "he is coming so you better believe in him OR ELSE".

If you sang a song that said "Loki is going to drink the blood of all you Christians", people could rightfully object to it.

I'd hate to open the gates to banning them all at talent shows simply b/c some people are "offended" by some of the lyrics. Hymns and religous songs are a part of the culture in areas of the country just like rap and hip-hop have become a part of the culture elsewhere.

This sounds like the same nonsense that the FCC is always dishing out to clamp down on free speech in the name of "decency."

Something like it. I think "Jupiter will bring his wrath upon all those who doubt him" would be a good hymn to sing.

this little girl to want to focus on this type of song. Sometimes young kids are brainwashed before they even develop critical thinking skills.

to "sing" it. Of course, her parents and the wingnuts are delighted. Just another example of those poor poor persecuted christians.

can't sing her song.

Equal protection under the law.

End of story.

I don't mind evangelicals. I just don't want them near the children.

the solution to censorship is not more censorship.

It's not like Pink's song says we should kill everyone with a "W" sticker on their car.

If she wanted to sing, "Jesus Loves The Little Children" that would be different.

"My Gawd is Gonna Kill You" isn't exactly fit for school. In fact, it's kinda Columbine-esque.

I don't hear anything in the lyrics that I don't also hear in most hymns, and I certainly don't think hymns should be banned from school talent shows. It's just a way of expressing religious beliefs.

The same criteria could be used against the Pink song on the grounds that it "endangers the troops" or "sympathizes with terrorists" (I know it doesn't, but I've heard equally loony denunciations of some songs).

Equal rights for all.

Pink's song doesn't say we should kill our troops, or even the pResident.

from "Go Down Moses:"

"So Moses went to Egypt's land
Let my people go
To make old Pharaoh understand
Let my people go
Thus spake the Lord, bold Moses said,
"Let my people go,
If not, I'll strike your first born dead
Let my people go"

from "A Mighty Fortress is My God"

"Though devils all the world should fill, all eager to devour us.
We tremble not, we fear no ill, they shall not overpower us.
This world’s prince may still scowl fierce as he will,
He can harm us none, he’s judged; the deed is done;
One little word can fell him."


There's nothing in "Awesome God" that I haven't heard a million times over in other hymns, and the girl has a right to sing them at a school talent show.

That doesn't make them a sensible choice for pre-teens, though.

not worth arguing about.

Because the girl was unable to sing the Pink song, this girl should not be allowed to sing her God as Rambo song. Otherwise--the first girl has a pretty big frikkin case.

I agree-- more censorship is not the answer.

In the end-- folks should just back off and let the ideas fly!

If so, the Pink girl's folks should sue the hell out of the school!

http://sweetraptorjesus.ytmnd.com
Probably not safe for work. You have been warned. :)

Techno remix of "Awesome God".

:D

Contemporary Christian music veteran Rich Mullins killed in automobile accident

NASHVILLE, Tenn. Contemporary Christian music veteran Rich Mullins, 41, was killed in a car accident Friday, Sept. 19, (1997) between 9 and 10 p.m. on Interstate 39 in LaSalle County, Illinois...

Mullins wrote "Awesome God."

Apparently Jesus didn't like him much, either...

On September 10, 1997, Rich Mullins sat down in a old, abandoned Church and played Nine songs that were to be part of a record he had affecionately termed "Ten Songs About Jesus". This was a new project Rich was just starting called "The Jesus Record". A project Rich said that Was "NEEDED" - For Himself and his friends.

JUST NINE SHORT DAYS LATER, Rich left this world and went to meet Jesus, his Savior and Lord. I think when Jesus saw Rich, Jesus said.... "Hey, You hit the Nail on the head with that one! Well done my Good and faithful servant. Come and Rest and know Me as you have always wanted to know Me". Man I wished I could of seen Rich's face........ Glory!

http://www.godnet.org/rich/

Usual Angry Whackjob Atheist comment: considering what allegedly happened to him, it strikes me that the LAST metaphor Jesus would use is--"You hit the nail on the head!"

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

couldn't push her to make an ass of herself trying to shove their fundie religion down the throats of other children.

Children with extreme dingbat parents should learn to keep them at a distance from the lives they have to face alone. Having the bulbous noses of the parents snuffling around in their school events can only make them more uncomfortable.

No child should be asked to serve as a tiny evangelist in addition to trying to learn what he needs at school.

...the School winds up offending everyone.

I'm glad my kid's out of school and I don't have to deal with this "Zero Tolerence/Zero Common-Sense" PC crapola any more.

I don't give a flying Eff if the girl wants to sing about her mythical invisible friend with the bad attitude, just as long as the school officials aren't twisting my kid's arm saying "Sing, Heinie, SING!"

or not be permitted to walk out if a performer offended me.

what's the big deal if she wants to sing the LAMEST song ever written?

if you don't believe me, download it yourself.

This is right on the border of freedom of speech, and violating the establishment clause.

But in a school of elementary kids, both protections are trumped by the responsibility the school has to protect young children from frightening experiences, and also, to protect the desires of the other parents.

This song does not need to be sung in school. There are so many songs she could choose that are religious, like say, Amazing grace, that don't have such threatening lyrics. It's not a finger-wagging admonishment "to behave or else."

The school is right. You err on the side of caution, respecting the multitude of religions and you don't allow anyone to go this far.

It's the school's call and I think they called it right. Sing something else. Period.

So the other school was in the right to ban the Pink song, and other "protest" songs?

If this was at a talent show, is it really the same as singing the song during the school day? I'm guessing the kids don't have to be there. And what's the point of having a talent show if the school gets to decide how the children can/can't express themselves, even to the point of banning a song that's identical to most hymns.

And is it a public school? If so, yes they are obligated to impose separation of church and state. Doesn't matter if it was during the school day and if kids were forced to attend.

And yes, (even though you didn't ask me) I don't believe the Pink song is appropriate in elementary school either.

They're arguing that it was inapproriate for kids.

The school cannot leagally "restrict" the kids from singing hymns or religious songs at a publicly-funded talent show, as long as they are not profane or indecent.

And I know this song would never be allowed in my school district.

This story also makes me glad we don't have talent shows in my school. :)

The school has to be the moral arbiter of what is and isn't acceptable for the kids to perform, and everyone complains. Schools should stick to educating.:)

It sounds like they're on a steep legal cliff. I hope they have deep pockets.

If it's actually about "talent", or "singing,", then why does it have to be a hymn?

If it's really about singing, and not "selling," then there are thousands of songs that are appropriate.

A religous agenda has no place in schools, even if it's hidden behind something innocent sounding as "a talent show." As soon as the words begin to be heard, everyone knows, it's another evangelical trying to shove their personal bias on unsuspecting children.

A truly devout person doesn't do anything that sneaky.

religon or politics. I really think that if you consider someone selling something involving values that you don't subscribe to, you'd realize we can't use children this way.

No protest songs. I don't know what the pink song is, but, it's the school's call.

When someone's mommy "encourages" their eight year-old girl to sing, "My Invisible Friend Jesus will kill the Sodomites," the school should let her sing.

Then, some other parent (or teacher) needs to "encourage" their child to sing a Muslim song in praise of Allah.

Then, some other parent (or teacher) needs to "encourage" their child to sing The Israeli Natonal Anthem.

Then, some other parent (or teacher) needs to "encourage" their child to sing, "Imagine" by John Lennon.
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/john_lennon/imagine.html

Then, some other parent (or teacher) needs to "encourage" their child to sing, "Cowboys Are Frequently, Secretly Fond of Each Other."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboys_Are_Frequently,_Secretly_Fond_of_Each_Other


Then, some other parent (or teacher) needs to "encourage" their child to sing, "Dumb Dumb Dorothy"
http://www.threeweirdsisters.com/lyrics_dumbdorothy.htm

Then, some other parent (or teacher) needs to "encourage" their child to sing, "Hallelujah! Evolution"

http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/product1053.html

Then, some other parent (or teacher) needs to "encourage" their child to sing, "The Hymn To Satan"


Then, some other parent (or teacher) needs to "encourage" their child to sing...

And then, when all the children have been exploited to their fullest, the school is torn apart, families all hate one another, and the lawyers are all wealthy, justice will be served.

THIS is why we don't turn schools into a battleground for religion, folks!

The kids are there to LEARN-- not to be pawns in a religious war waged by their parents-- Sectarian Violence waged by proxy.

The talent show should close with THIS song by Three Weird Sisters. Here are the last two paragraphs:

Six Days, By Gwen Knighton
<snip>

In just six days my teacher's god made sky and sea and land,
And she thinks every one of us is in that same god's hand.
But I remember back before they passed that resolution
That hushed up evolution with a Biblical solution.

That's what they teach us in school.
Five days out of seven, I hear my folks are fools.
Mom and Dad say faith is in the heart, it's not a battle to be won,
But I think I'm the battleground this war is fought upon.
Mom and Dad say faith is in the heart, it's not a battle to be won,
But I think I'm the battleground this war is fought upon.

More:
http://www.threeweirdsisters.com/lyrics_sixdays.htm

Let the girl fight, and let the Sectarian Violence resume!

After all... that sort of thing worked for Bosnia, Iran, Iraq... what could go wrong?

having a fervent anti-Christian is the best way to promote the Democratic agenda.

Kudos to the poster who made certain to type out "Gawd" and "Jeezus" in every post; it must have been taxing to purposely misspell words for the purpose of declaring your independence from and superiority to religion. I just feel it was a tad superfluous, given that any reader would easily have gotten the same message just by reading your gross mis-interpretation of the Bible (or bibble, if you prefer).

And kudos to those who think her parents put her up to this. While it completely misses the point of the debate, its always important to remind everyone of the dangers of parental influence, and why it should be stemmed at every turn.

Finally, concerning the legality of either position, while there is nothing in the 1st Amendment that prevents a student from voluntarily saying or singing something that is religious in a public school, it is also the school's discretion to set the rules, even if it abridges Constitutionally-protected free speech, according to Supreme Court rulings. Therefore, the school is within their bounds to say "no" to the performance.