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Roon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:41 AM
Original message
Witnesses: People flood into Gaza from Egypt after border wall blasted.
Breaking on http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Weird.
I would have expected people to be going in the opposite direction.
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. me too
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. Not if they are carrying weapons.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. oh god this is terrible
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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. I agree. I don't get it.
Why would people in Egypt want to go to Gaza?
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. To help fight against the Israelis?????? /eom
TC
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Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. My first question would be are we creating another insurgent
situation like we created in Iraq?
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. That's where their houses are?
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
72. They were Palestinians stranded on the other side of the wall.
Edited on Fri Jul-14-06 08:43 PM by BullGooseLoony
Hamas blew a hole in the wall deliberately so that the stranded people could get home, because there are tanks everywhere else. Apparently six people had died on the other side of the wall.
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
4. Are they Palestinians or Egyptians? n/t
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JoDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. There were people there yesterday
Amassing at the border--I thought that it was Palestinian refugees trying to flee into Egypt. It is possible that the early reports of people going to Gaza from Egypt are mixed up. Initial news reports from a war zone are often sketchy and misleading. It also is possible that these are Hamas/Hezoballah ex-pats looking to open a southern front in Israel.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Hi JoDog!
Welcome to DU! :hi:
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. They may very well be Palestinians who were stranded in Egypt.
Edited on Fri Jul-14-06 10:59 AM by CottonBear
We don't know who blasted the wall and why. It does not seem that Israel would have done it on purpose because thjey are the ones who man the checkpoints at the borders, at least at the Israel-Egypt border and the Gaza-Israel border. We will have to wait and see what more eye-witness reporting tells us.

DU is the place to come for breaking news form all over the world and from many news sources.

Welcome to DU.
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Terran1212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
5. They could be Palestinian refugees living in Egypt
trying to return home.
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. This was the banner on CNN before that one
Israeli military sources say they believe the longer-range missiles fired yesterday at Haifa, Israel, were made in Iran
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. And the Israelis are using US made military arms and planes. n/t
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 02:13 PM
Original message
Touche'
Of course that doesn't count, does it.
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Francine Frensky Donating Member (870 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. Is it just me or does anyone else think this Iran connection is fishy
like the point being to find an excuse to start an entire region-wide war, linking Iran to something evil like providing weapons to the palestinians.

Does it really matter who made the bombs? What if they were made by America, but stolen or sold on the black market to the palestinians. That wouldn't mean America was supporting Palestine.

I guess my point is that it seems to make for a too-good -to-be-true situation for the right-wing chicken hawk war mongerers to point fingers at Iran and have an excuse to bomb the heck out of them, like they did with Iraq and the whole made up wmd story. they're itchin to get in there, and this may be just a flimsy excuse to do so.
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
10. Who blasted the wall? n/t
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
38. I thought one of the Israeli bombs broke the wall.
:shrug:
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
11. Palestinians stuck in Egypt
Israel closed the border weeks ago. People got stuck on both sides (according to wire service). Just going home.
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Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. Israel?
Israel did not close the border. The border is between Gaza and Egypt. Israel pulled out of Gaza a year ago. Egypt closed the border.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Palestinians 'stranded' at border
<snip>

"About 580 Palestinians in need of medical care have been stranded for up to two weeks at the Rafah border crossing between Egypt and Gaza, the Red Cross has said.

The Palestinians remain trapped in a terminal on the Egyptian side of the border after it was closed by Israel on June 25, following the capture of an Israeli soldier by Palestinian militants."

<snip>

"Palestinians technically control the Rafah crossing but its operations are overseen by European monitors and can be blocked by the Israelis. The others are controlled by Israel.

Mark Regev, an Israeli foreign ministry spokesman, said Israel has offered to let Palestinians in need of medical care to use of Kerem Shalom and the Erez crossing."


http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/21AA8D82-6EBA-45B9-949E-27741C15D5A8.htm
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Gaza borders controlled by Israel
As well as air space and sea access. Israel removed it's settlements, but retained control.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5122404.stm
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. No..
..That border is controlled by Egypt.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Everything in Gaza is controlled by Israelis
these days. That is why it is called an occupation.
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Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. Do try and keep up.
Israel, in a bid for peace and as the primary platform of the Kadima Party, left Gaza a year ago.

Ethnically cleansed Gaza of Jews.

Pulled up stakes.

Left.

There was no occupation in Gaza.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Yup, just like there is no occupation of Iraq
We are just being good humanitarians helping them on the road to Democracy.
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Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. THERE WERE NO SOLDIERS THERE
What part of that do you not get?

The IDF went back AFTER continuous months of rockets raining down on their towns. FIRST they tried sonic booms but everyone complained about that. And it didn't stop the rockets. Which started the very day Israel pulled out of Gaza.

THEN Gaza snuck through a tunnel that took at least 3 months to build WELL INTO ISRAEL and killed and kidnapped soldiers.

How those is NOT acts of war I will never understand.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Sure right and I've got a bridge you may want to buy . .n/t
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. 'Ethnically cleansed Gaza of Jews.'
Edited on Fri Jul-14-06 05:42 PM by Violet_Crumble
Well, thank you so much for trotting out one of the lines used by extremist settlers. That comment shows no respect at all for international law, denies that Israel ever occupied Gaza and transplanted its own citizens there, and completely abuses the term ethnic cleansing....
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Facts overcome "reasons".
Try again, who CONTROLS those borders?
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
49. Lets look at some facts...
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D135ACAF-DB79-4BF9-A6A5-9EE123FFE366.htm

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060701-021313-7538r

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC05.php?CID=2376

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/17/AR2005091701213.html

Read these and you see that Egypt and Egyptian troops control the border.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
62. No it is not
"Palestinians technically control the Rafah crossing, but its operations are overseen by European monitors and can be blocked by Israel. Kerem Shalom and other crossings into Gaza are controlled by Israel."

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L11884743.htm
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
15. Palestinians Stream in Through Egypt
Hundreds of people poured into the Gaza Strip from Egypt on Friday after Palestinians blew a hole in the border wall separating the two places, an Associated Press reporter at the scene said.

People carrying suitcases crossed into Gaza through the hole. Some walked through on crutches, others ran and walked.

The border has largely been closed since June 25 when Palestinian militants carried out a cross-border raid on a military outpost, killing two Israeli soldiers and capturing one. Hundreds of people have been stranded on the Egyptian side of the border, unable to get to their homes in Gaza.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/14/D8IRROQOD.html
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
16. Gunmen blow hole in Egypt-Gaza border wall

Gunmen blow hole in Egypt-Gaza border wall
Dozens of people enter into Strip; meantime, Israel scales back presen
BREAKING NEWS
MSNBC News Services
Updated: 6 minutes ago
GAZA, Israel - Masked gunmen blew a 20-foot hole in the border wall between the Gaza Strip and Egypt on Friday, allowing dozens of stranded Palestinians to enter Gaza, witnesses said.

People carrying suitcases crossed into Gaza through the hole. Some walked through on crutches, others ran and walked.

The border has largely been closed since June 25 when Palestinian militants carried out a cross-border raid on a military outpost, killing two Israeli soldiers and capturing one. Hundreds of people have been stranded on the Egyptian side of the border, unable to get to their homes in Gaza.

Story continues below ↓
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
advertisement

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Earlier, Israel bombed the offices of Hamas lawmakers, destroyed a bridge and fired a tank shell that killed one Palestinian as part of a Gaza Strip offensive aimed at forcing militants to release a captured soldier.

more... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13855530/
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truthpusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
20. Palestinians (Blow a hole in Border wall) Stream in (to Gaza)Through Egypt
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/14/D8IRROQOD.html

Palestinians Stream in Through Egypt
Jul 14 11:45 AM US/Eastern

RAFAH, Gaza Strip

Hundreds of people poured into the Gaza Strip from Egypt on Friday after Palestinians blew a hole in the border wall separating the two places, an Associated Press reporter at the scene said.

People carrying suitcases crossed into Gaza through the hole. Some walked through on crutches, others ran and walked.

The border has largely been closed since June 25 when Palestinian militants carried out a cross-border raid on a military outpost, killing two Israeli soldiers and capturing one. Hundreds of people have been stranded on the Egyptian side of the border, unable to get to their homes in Gaza.

link: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/14/D8IRROQOD.html
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Wow!
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. This ought to be interesting.
What's Egypt going to do about it? And Israel?
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. This is a dupe. People have been stranded on the border for weeks
Some have died.
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truthpusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Did you read the headline? "THEY BLEW A HOLE IN THE WALL"
....they are no longer stranded...the are moving in now...
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. Wait a minute!!!! I thought one of the Israeli bombs broke the wall!!!!
There's a LOT of misinformation being tossed about!!!! A whole hell of a lot of misinformation!!!

For example, the Israelis kidnapped and imprisoned people BEFORE the three soldiers were kidgnapped.

Who's violating whom? Who's abused power? Who's holding the big club? Where is the perspective? What about human rights? What about the pacts against aggression? Why are thugs now being associated with entire nations?

This is bullshit!!! This is PNAC!!!!
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
25. Uh oh...
From Haaretz News Flash:

20:22 IAF helicopters open fire near Rafah border crossing in Gaza Strip (Reuters)
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. That didn't take long. I wonder if they will make the hole bigger? nt
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. LOL
Edited on Fri Jul-14-06 12:55 PM by Scurrilous
From ynet:

Israel helicopters fire near Gazans at Egypt border

Israeli helicopters opened fire near Palestinians as they poured into Gaza from Egypt on Friday, a Reuters witness said.

The Israeli army said the intention was to prevent Palestinians from crossing the border wall, which was blown open earlier by gunmen. It was unclear if anyone was injured in the shooting. (Reuters)
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. "Mr. Gorbacev, tear down this wall!"
Nah, I forgot, Berlin Wall bad, Gaza wall good, Texas-Mexico wall good. Wal-Mart, good. Soooooooo confusing...............
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
30. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
grilled onions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
33. What's In Those Suitcases???
Oft times people sneaking INTO a war zone would be less likely hauling clothes then they would be any weapons they can get their hands onto.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. When Israel closed off the border, family members were caught on the
Egyptian side. Since Gaza has been cut off from all clean water and food supplies now for two weeks, it is likely that the suitcases may be carrying back very much needed food and water supplies.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
34. CNN reporting...
helicopter gunships hovering over the area, fears are they're going to open up on the people.

Reminds me of the Katrina refugees.
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MGD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
40. Looks like Lebanon is committing war crimes by targeting civilians
A grandmother and her grandson were killed in a rocket barrage.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. We keep hearing about the two Israelis killed but not the 70 Lebanese
who where killed and the hundreds of Palestinians who are dead. The corporate news media tells us over and over again about the two Israelis being dead. So sorry to hear about their deaths, just as I am sorry to hear about the hundreds dead from the Israeli bombs which goes unreported in corporate news media.

US funded bombs can kill many more people than any rockets fired in return.
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MGD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. you're right, I haven't heard anything about 100s of dead Palestinians
All I have heard about is Israel striking militarily significant targets in an attempt to prevent the kidnapped soldiers from being evacuated out of the immediate area. Perhaps you have a link that supports this claim?
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Since you believe all the propaganda
about Israeli troops being out of Gaza, I don't believe anyone could ever supply you with enough links to reality to offset your bias on this situation.
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PansophicOne Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. lol... Pot meet kettle.
No offence but I've seen some of your posts on this thread and you seem to be just as guilty of believing all the propaganda.Except you only believe anti-Israeli propaganda. But what the hell, you guys all balance each other out and let the more objective people learn the real truth.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. It just amases me
That all the DUers here who complain the corporate media doesn't let out a single true fact on the Bush Regime, all of a sudden believes the same corporate media shills are telling the truth about Gaza/Israel.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. Or the regular rocketing of Israeli towns
Just because Hezbollah and Hamas rockets don't regularly kill people, it doesn't mean they're not an act of war. Israel pulled out of southern Lebanon, they pulled out of Gaza, and yet they're still getting rockets lobbed at them. That seems like proof to me that the Palestinians don't want peace.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. "Act of war" -- the precise language used by Olmert to justify invading.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. The rocketing has got to be acknowledged
I thought liberals were supposed to be open-minded and consider all aspects of a situation or issue. One can acknowledge the entire truth of a situation without supporting military invasion as the solution.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #55
63. The rocketing is acknowledged a million times over by the mass media
Everyone everywhere is bombarded with news of all transactions against Israel, over and over again each hour on the hour.

What no one is aware of is the transactions against Gaza done by Israel. Not a peep from corporate media.

We liberals are just providing a little balance here to the situation which has been so heavily weighted in Israel's favor by the corporate media.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. No it's not
Edited on Fri Jul-14-06 07:13 PM by sandnsea
There is hardly ever any mention of the fact that Israeli towns are routinely bombed and shot at by Hezbollah and Hamas who have fixed locations where they launch these attacks from. The timeline on CNN right now acts as if this all started up just days ago. Others act as if this is all because Israel bombed a beach, willy-nilly. Neither story is the complete truth, it's no wonder there's so much confusion over the ME.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. The Israel is being attacked claim has been reported on for years
Over and over, every time Israel is in the news they are complaining about being rocketed. Is is so standard a rephrain you probably don't even hear it any more.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Israel gets rocketed so often it's common place?
Que sera sera, off to the market we go.

This is unacceptable and obviously not a purely Israeli instigated problem.

"Palestinian militants in Gaza have fired some 600 makeshift rockets at Sderot this year. Over the past week, some 100 rockets have been fired.

Four children and an adult have been killed in such attacks on Sderot since the start of the intifada in September 2000. More than 5,000 people have been killed overall, most of them Palestinian."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060619/wl_mideast_afp/mideastunrestisraelprotestolmert
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. Notice the report doesn't say anything about what Israel
has done to the Palestinians.

See, mass media all one sided.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. ONE article, ONE town, and DEAD Palestinian children
How is ONE article supposed to tell the entire story of the I/P fighting? It's purpose was to show what kind of attack these Israeli towns are under on a daily basis. It is not a one-sided assault against Palestinians.

The bulk of the articles I've seen in the last few weeks have been about Israel bombing the Gaza beach and nothing more. Even though it may well have been one of these regularly fired Hamas rockets that killed that family.

The point is, the left doesn't do any better job at telling the complete truth on I/P than the right, than does the mainstream media.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Israel has the support of the RW, the corporate media ,Bushco
the Israel Lobby, and also many on the left.

The only ones watching the other side of the Israel picture is some of us on the left.

The ones on the left watching the whole situation don't feel they have to also defend Israel because it already has overwhelming support given to them.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. So misrepresenting is ok then?
I don't think so. There's never an excuse to misrepresent the truth, especially in matters of war and the deaths of thousands of people. I don't buy it anyway, I just think there's a lot of people who have taken a particular political view, read news with a particular political slant, call everything else a lie, and then proclaim to be the defenders of truth and justice. It's a simplistic way to deal with this messed up world, but the answers are just not as easy as deciding to take the side of the misunderstood "bad" guys. It's the opposite side of the Bushbot coin.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. no it is not
but only you are the one who is saying it is misrepresentation because you appear to believe the overwhelming Israel bias smothering us every day.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Telling both sides is biased?
You admitted you only tell the Hamas/Hezbollah/Palestinian side because they don't get enough support. You're the one with the admitted bias. You're doing exactly what I referred to in my last post, insisting the Israeli side is wrong and dismissing everything the media has to say in their defense. You're completely supporting the Hamas/Hezbollah/Palestinian side because it's the anarchistic, anti-western democracy thing to do.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Moral equivalency. 100 dead/maimed in revenge for 3 soldiers,...
,...kidnapped in revenge for five retained by Israel and dozens killed more maimed in revenge for,....

Meanwhile, the U.S. has responsibility for killing maiming 250,000 Iraqis (and 20,00+ U.S. soldiers) over the criminal act of a rogue group disassociated with Iraq that killed/maimed approximately 3,000 Americans.

Perspective. Moral equivalency. This is beyond eye-for-an-eye justice. This is a rich man's oil war, willing to sacrifice others for their own benefit.

PNAC.

PNAC.

PNAC.
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MGD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. It depends on your perspective
If you look at it only from the perspective of the three kidnapped soldiers, you might succesfully defend the moral equivalency argument but the Arab-Israeli conflict is a little more involved than that. As far as I'm concerned, Israel pulled out of Gaza and was subsequently attacked for it. The Moral equivalency argument is lost right there; furthermore, the Arabs would just as soon wipe Israel off the face of the earth and, as the Jews have a long and painful hiostory of people trying to wipe them off the face of the earth, I think the argument of moral equivalency loses its value.
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enigmacat Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. Please
"... the Arabs would just as soon wipe Israel off the face of the earth and, as the Jews have a long and painful hiostory of people trying to wipe them off the face of the earth, I think the argument of moral equivalency loses its value."

What a sweeping generalization of a group of people (Arabs) your comment was. How about what the Israelis are doing right now? You don't consider their actions genocidal at all, do you? They bombed a hospital in Lebanon, and severed a baby, a BABY, into several parts. They are killing civilians in Lebanon left and right, yet they don't want that to happen to their civilians.
Your invoking of the term "moral equivalency" is laughable.
If Israel were any other country in the world, their actions would be considered war crimes, so spare me the moral highground routine.
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PansophicOne Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Well...
How you suggest Israel handle it? I personally think they're going a bit over the top here but I am not in their situation so I don't know how much weight my opinion holds. Anyways, about the hospital you claim was bombed, hmmm, I have to wonder why they would bomb a hospital.They obviously had to of had a reason, because no nation would bomb a hospital just for the hell of it, even Israel has to maintain some legitimacy with the world(although many TERRORIST organizations like Hamas or Hezbollah don't seem to mind) So I am sure we can both assume that Hezbollah was using the hospital as a staging ground or perhaps for storage of weapons. If I am not mistaken, that is the real warcrime being committed and the more blame would be directed towards those who caused the location to become a military target. Of course if you can prove that there was no military weapons or personal there then that changes the situation.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #40
61. and Israeli weapons kill no innocents?..n/t
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #40
74. Hezbollah, not Lebanon
the Lebanese army is not involved in this yet.
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