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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 08:51 PM
Original message
ABC: Electronic Voting Machines Could Skew Elections
At the top of the Google News Main Page


http://www.abcnews.go.com/WNT/Technology/story?id=2596705&page=1



ABC News: Electronic Voting Machines Could Skew Elections
Researchers, Candidates Have Little Confidence in Machines Designed to Make Elections Easier to Call
By JAKE TAPPER, REBECCA ABRAHAMS and EDUARDO SUNOL

Oct. 22, 2006 — Cheryl Kagan, a former Maryland Democratic legislator, was shocked when she opened her mail Wednesday morning.

Inside, she discovered three computer discs. With them was an anonymous letter saying the discs contained the secret source code for vote-counting that could be used to alter the votes cast through Maryland's new electronic voting machines.

"My understanding is that with these disks a malicious person could skew the outcome of an election," Kagan said.

Diebold, the company that makes the voting machines, told ABC News, "These discs do not alter the security of the Diebold touch-screen system in any way," because election workers can set their own passwords.

...more at link....

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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kick, kickety, kick, kick, kick...
So, WTF, you'd think they WANT this story to grow legs!

What's up with THAT?

This is the 5th or 6th media hit I've seen on this just tonight!

Whatdoyouwanna bet Rove plans on crying foul over scammy machines
when we pull a tsunami on Nov. 7?
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Don't they always accuse the Dems of the crimes they are known to commit?
You bring up a good point. Makes you wonder?
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
54. That is indeed their MO (eom)
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Just trying to place blame on DEMS for rigging.
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dapper Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
49. That's what I saw when I posted in my journal
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/dapper/3

2006/2008- Hypocrisy in Action.
Posted by dapper in General Discussion: Politics
Sat Jul 29th 2006, 11:24 PM
In a stunning turn of events, the Democratic party has gained a giant majority in the House and Senate. Many Republican candidates are crying foul over what they believe to be incorrect totals coming from the electronic voting machines. In Alaska, Republicans are currently looking into the Diebold database and have found several irregularities in the vote totals....

---------------------
That's the way I'm seeing the stories developing after the elections and I'm seeing the MSM eating it up.

Dap
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
66. And the companies who own these voting machines are loyal to
which party, again? The owner of Diebold promised to deliver the '04 election to **, did he not? Good luck with placing the blame on DEMS for rigging when we take back Congress. Oh I know they will try it anyway. They didn't seem to care about countless voting machine irregularities in the past two elections, did they now?
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
28. Yup, I wouldn't put it past them to do exactly that.
They could rig an obviously fraudulent outcome (99% Dem or some such)
and then cry foul and swear in their candidates during the
ensuing media uproar.

As long as the CA50 decision stands, they can swear in any damn
body they want to, y'know. Without counting any votes at all.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
35. They cry about everything
that doesn't go their way. Funny thing is they didn't gripe about suspicious election outcomes in the last three elections.
Maybe they've figured out that Democratic operatives have learned how to hack the machines without detection.
Why were they steadfast against verifiable voting in the past?
Paper ballots and blue thumbs are good enough in Iraq, the latest epitome of democracy. Remember all those Republican politicians holding up their blue thumbs during Bushigula's State of the Union message.
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
69. Thats just what I've been thinking.
I'm almost sure that's what they've got up their sleeves just in case. The machines ate THEIR votes and the election (only if we win) will have to be contested. I have a sinking feeling that this tactic is the only reason they are allowing stories about potential election tampering and problems to hit the media.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
78. How could they?
Republicans control the electronic vote companies, the Sec. of State positions in most swing states, and the Congress that created the HAVA boondoggle. If they tried to blame Dems for this, people would just laugh. I think the media is just getting a little better & a little more mistrustful of the Republicans. Robert Kennedy's articles have helped to bring national attention to the problems. Jack Cafferty covered the voting machine problems too, and actually asked if it could be used to steal elections! It just seem like the media is slowly waking up to this issue.
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks to the anonymous DUers who recommended this post.
Edited on Sun Oct-22-06 09:22 PM by suziedemocrat
This issue is what brought me to DU right after the (stolen) 2004 election. Back then, DU was one of the few places where this topic was even being discussed, let alone taken seriously. Kos went on a tirade forbidding posting anything about election fraud that might ruin the hard-earned reputation of his web-site. DU was a haven then. Now, 2 years later, election fraud is FINALLY being taken seriously by the MSM.
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
59. That's exactly what brought me to DU:
Brave and detailed posts by TIA.
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. kick !!!! nt
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GAspnes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. My hat's off to the disk-sender
That's a brilliant way to make BBV a sudden, national, story. Wish I'd thought of it.

It's amazing how this issue is one of perception, not reason. The code leaks off an FTP server, computer scientists analyze that code and explain why it's unsafe/unreliable and a group of computer students demonstrate hacking the system with a programmable card in seconds, and no one cares. A book is written. Suits are instituted. It has taken years of repetition to push this issue into the 'serious' category in the general perception.

I hope this time, the story has legs.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
90. I recall telling a good friend about voting machines a few years ago.
She is a very intelligent, and very liberal person. Yet, when I told her, she just kind of looked at me in a peculiar way. I saw her recently and she said: "Oh, I meant to tell you. I saw something on Diebold the other day ..." It must take awhile for this stuff to sink in for many people, although most of us here on DU have been screaming about this for years and years.
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. COULD? COULD? I hate the the corporate news media.
How can they play so stupid all of the time.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. Uh huh....Ya think?!

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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Skew"?
Is that what you crazy kids are calling fraud and theft these days?
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. Diebold's misleading response
Diebold, the company that makes the voting machines, told ABC News, "These discs do not alter the security of the Diebold touch-screen system in any way," because election workers can set their own passwords.

Password access only lets election workers get at some of the software settings (probably things like what to do with over- and under-votes); it doesn't let them into the tabulator code, which is what's on those disks. Normally only the company techs have access to that...and the code is just one place where vote-flipping can be set. It can also be done on the memory cards.

Optical scanners also use tabulator software and memory cards and are just as vulnerable.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. Optical scanners, however, do retain the paper ballot actually marked
by the voter and thus there is the possibility of a verifiable audit if questions arise.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Hard to get to that audit when the first stop is a machine recount
...using the same software. And in my state (FL) the next step -- hand recounts -- have been outlawed.

Paper ballots are useless in any practical sense when used in machines with proprietary software.
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Autumn Colors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. My town is using optical scan this year
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 07:41 AM by Autumn Colors
I called the registrar/town clerk to voice my concern and she sounded like they weren't too happy either that our town was one of the ones selected to be one of the first in Connecticut. She told me that all recounts would be done BY HAND.
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. What town do you live in, and how did it go in the primary?
Just wondering. I'm in New London. We haven't switched yet. Our registrar actually lost my registration the first time I hand delivered it. When I didn't get mailed confirmation, I went back and reregistered, then stood right there waiting until it was entered in the computer.
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Autumn Colors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #37
61. We used the lever machines in the primary
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 11:43 AM by Autumn Colors
I live in Monroe. If you meant how did the results go, Lamont beat Lieberman by 13 votes.
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #61
79. In New London, my town,Lamont won by 2. n/t
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. This is good to hear. Too many think op-scanners are safe
Of course to get to a hand recount certain criteria needs to be met: a certain percentage difference between the results for two candidates, or a total malfunction of the system that requires going back to the original ballots. Otherwise your precinct will just have to trust that the totals are right. And there's good reason not to trust these machines.

Here's a report from NH on their Diebold Accuvote Optical Scanners (AV-OS) from earlier this year. You may want to print it and send it to your registrar of elections. Not that there's much can be done about it now, but forewarned is forearmed....

Security Analysis of the Diebold AccuBasic Interpreter, Voting Systems Technology Assessment Advisory Board (VSTAAB), February 14, 2006

p. 36: In the longer term, or for statewide elections, the risks of not fixing the vulnerabilities in the AccuBasic interpreter become more pronounced. Larger elections, such as a statewide election, provide a greater incentive to hack the election and heighten the stakes. Also, the longer these vulnerabilities are left unfixed, the more opportunity it gives potential attackers to learn how to exploit these vulnerabilities. For statewide elections, or looking farther into the future, it would be far preferable to fix the vulnerabilities discussed in this report.

p. 35: The FEC 2002 Voluntary Voting System Standards expressly forbid interpreted code.
The inclusion of interpreted languages in a voting system causes great burdens on examiners and code reviewers, who have to be highly skilled and do considerable analysis of the compiler and interpreter in order to verify that it does not present security vulnerabilities or permit malicious code to go unnoticed.

p. 9: All of this information on the memory cards is critical election information. If it is not properly managed, or if it is modified in any unauthorized way, the integrity of the entire election is possibly compromised. It is therefore vital, as everyone acknowledges, to maintain proper procedural control over the memory cards to prevent unauthorized tampering, and to treat them at all times during the election with at least the same level of security as ballot boxes containing voted ballots.

p. 11: There are serious vulnerabilities in the AV-OS and AV-TSx interpreter that go beyond what was previously known. If a malicious individual gets unsupervised access to a memory card, he or she could potentially exploit these vulnerabilities to modify the electronic tallies at will, change the running code on these systems, and compromise the integrity of the election arbitrarily.

p. 12: None of the vulnerabilities we found would have been found through standard testing, so testing is not the answer. This is a long-term problem with the use of interpreted code on removable memory cards, and with the failure to use defensive programming and other good security practices when implementing the interpreter.

p. 13: The consequence of these vulnerabilities is that any person with unsupervised access to a memory card for sufficient time to modify it, or who is in a position to switch a malicious memory card for a good one, has the opportunity to completely compromise the integrity of the electronic tallies from the machine using that card.

p. 13: The attack could manipulate the electronic tallies in any way desired.

p. 13: The attack could print fraudulent zero reports and summary reports to prevent detection.

p. 13: The attack could modify the contents of the memory card in any way, including tampering with the electronic vote counts and electronic ballot images stored on the card.

p. 13: The attack could erase all traces of the attack to prevent anyone from detecting the attack after the fact.

p. 13: It is even conceivable that there is a way to exploit these vulnerabilities so that changes could persist from one election to another. For instance, if the firmware or software resident on the machine can be modified or updated by running code, then the attack might be able to modify the firmware or software in a permanent way, affecting future elections as well as the current election. In other words, these vulnerabilities mean that a procedural lapse in one election could potentially affect the integrity of a subsequent election.

p. 16: It is conceivable that the attack might be able to propagate from machine to machine, like a computer virus. (The same is true of the DREs, IOW "it's the memory cards, stupid.")

p. 16: The attack could affect the correct operation of the machine. For instance, on the AV-OS, it could turn o_ (I believe that should read "off") under- and over-vote notification. It could selectively disable over-vote notification for ballots that contain votes for a disfavored candidate, or selectively provide false over-vote notifications for ballots that contain votes for a favored candidate.

p. 16: In addition, most of the bugs we found could be used to crash the machine.

p. 17: It is important to note that even in the worst case, the paper ballots cast using an AV-OS remain trustworthy; in no case can any of these vulnerabilities be used to tamper with the paper ballots themselves.

p. 18: Our analysis also confirmed that the AV-OS fails to check that the vote counters are zero at the start of election day.

http://www.democracyfornewhampshire.com/files/blc/election-report-findings.pdf (PDF file)
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #26
52. I agree only in part: the fight against election fraud, like any other
political fight, requires organized citizens.

While you are certainly correct that the optical scan machines are no guarantee of a fair count, there is really no guarantee of a fair count using any other method, either, unless enough citizens are involved and interested. And you are certainly true that the typical recount for an optical will simply be to redo the optical scan -- although enough interested and involved citizens could provide the necessary political pressure for other means of audit.

The fact is that every allegedly secure method is "useless in any practical sense when used" without an involved citizenry. And if you can't even generate the political momentum to force hand audits of scanner ballots, I don't see how you can possibly generate the political conditions necessary to force hand-counted paper ballots ...
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #52
86. Without a doubt, more citizens need to get involved
But that's next to impossible when the political parties are themselves so unwilling to take the issue seriously, publicize it, and move to correct it. The Repubs have an excuse for their silence: the status quo with these machines benefits them, and they aren't about protecting the democratic process in any case. But the Dems have no excuse.

Dean has known about the problem with the touchscreen machines since before the '04 elections. John Conyers compiled a book about the problems he investigated following the '04 elections, which included testimony he heard on multiple cases of voting machine errors and fraud. But the Democratic Party as a whole didn't start showing interest until a few months ago. At least, that's when I raised the matter with someone calling on behalf of the DNC, and he averred that they were now paying attention. Unfortunately I believe he was only saying what he thought I needed to hear to make a contribution.

Not enough, and not nearly good enough.

In order for the citizenry to act they must be informed. So far, all I've heard is "Vote anyway, on paper ballot if you can." Understanding the dangers with op-scanners as I do, I'm less than satisfied with that response, and have been trying to inform people here and around me for some time not to think scanned ballots are the answer.

While fraud will always take place no matter what election system is used, the level of political apathy in the face of the certain and widespread risk these machines represent is analogous to buying a used car from a known car thief. What I'm being asked to do is hand my vote over and hope, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that it won't be used against my intent. If I do vote I may unwittingly help a Repug into office. If I don't vote, I may be withholding a crucial vote from a Dem who needs it. The position is untenable.

Lou Dobbs has done more to inform the American public of this threat than the Dems. As things stand, we're in a worse place than we were in '04 to know whether our votes will be counted, and if so, whether they'll be counted properly. That isn't the fault of the American public.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #23
56. If you can get your SOE to do it.
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone with mine. I cannot get him to understand that computers are vulnerable and an audit should be standard operating procedure following every election. He thinks I'm nuts.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #56
60. I'm not sure from your post but it sounds like you're going at it solo.
Do you have any other sympathetic officials you can enlist? City council? County commissioners? State representatives?

What about a resolution from the party, starting from your local precinct?

Or can you get any candidates to make it an issue?

Or can you enlist a group like the LWV to support at least a random partial sampling after each election as SOP?

Or maybe you and a group of people you collect could ask to recount your own precinct by hand after the election? Maybe you can motivate a number of people locally to ask to do hand recounts: I'd bet the answer is no, but if SOE says no, you might have a newspaper story on "Why not?"

The point, of course, is not only the actual audit, it is the opportunity to put the talking points before the public and to create a motivated group of people who will continue to work for election transparency and fairness.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. No, I'm not solo...
just frustrated and tired. The local Democratic Executive Committee has been making noise but to no avail. Not a sympathetic official around. The entire city council and county commission is 100% Republican as is the SOE and all of the state reps who represent this county. I fear it's in their interest NOT to audit.

We may have a candidate willing to challenge for an audit after the election though.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
67. That is why I am confident using the optical scan.
It is a paper ballot that is simple and easy to read. You connect the arrow--no hanging chads. I don't believe we can have an absolute, fool-proof system for voting as long as human mischief is possible in one form or another.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #67
87. Read my post #38 above
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2575486&mesg_id=2576050

There's no reason to trust the opti-scanners any more than the touchscreens.

Paper ballots do no good unless a hand recount is triggered. And some states like mine (FL) don't allow hand recounts under any circumstances.

There's no foolproof system but we can do MUCH better than this.
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BonnieJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
46. But optical scanner have paper ballots to count
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #46
88. Read my post #38 above
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2575486&mesg_id=2576050

The first step -- if the results meet the criteria -- is a machine recount. You may never get to a hand recount.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
63. And how can you alter something that doesn't exist?
These discs do not alter the security of the Diebold touch-screen system in any way," because election workers can set their own passwords
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. sneaking into the msm.. Yes!
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. ABC: American Broadcasting Conspiracy Theorists.
Has the whole world gone wacky?

Everyone knows the elections wouldn't be rigged by the GOP. They're christians.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. K & R even though talking about these real & frightening facts
is somehow tantamount to telling people it's useless to vote. :eyes:
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. We should be careful with this
It may be a Rovian plant.

Just imagine if the computer wizards find nothing wrong on these disks, because they have been stripped of 'bad' programming. They'll use it to say: "See? We told you so."

But it could be that they are for real and the wizards will say: "Everything the stolen election conspiracy theorists told us is true."

You know I hope these are not planted disks, right?

For more discussion see this thread in DU's Election Reform Forum:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=453791&mesg_id=453791
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Na,,,
Edited on Sun Oct-22-06 11:27 PM by garybeck
The disks do not have any malicious code, that's not the problem. The problem is that someone leaked a copy. We don't know how it got "out there" but what it means is that there could be more copies of it "out there" in other places, in other people's hands. And if someone had the source code, they could easily write a virus, and make a memory card that would interact with the code that is on the machines. That's why this story is getting coverage - someone leaked the code.

It is a valid concern, and this is the exact reasoning people use against having open source code, because it would make it easier for people to make trojan horses and viruses to interact with it.

It's my view that someone leaked the code, not to show the world that there is malicious code on there, but to show everyone how bad the code is, how vulnerable it is to hacking, and to raise concerns about the above, so that everyone will realize these machines are just a bad idea.

g

oh, and KR.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yep, nothing like reading the code to see what crap it really is ... nt
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Counting.
The first and easiest code.

Ridiculous.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
33. If using open source code would make it easier
for people to make trojan horses and viruses to interact with it-then why isn't Linux swamped with viruses and trojans and Windoze safe?
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
17. Now that the GOP is set to lose, we'll hear about vote-rigging
We need to make CERTAIN they know who owns the companies...REPUBLICANS
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. hell, they already did this, and the 'evildoer o' the day' at the time was
...VENEZUELA! no fooling.
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benh57 Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. The source should be publicly available to all
Open-source software is far more secure, since anyone can review it for security holes and patch them.

'Security by obscurity' is no security at all. See: xhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity">Security_through_obscurity
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leQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
43. here here! ... until we have open source elections
we will not have confident elections.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. "election workers can set their own passwords" gee, that's just swell,
crooked fascist election workers like Katherine Harris and Kenneth Blackwell can set their own passwords.

That makes me feel so much better.
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
84. Yeah, that jumped out at me.....
A poll worker with an agenda. Not only could it happen, it has in the current "GOP will do anything to win" era.
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
20. DIRECT VIDEO LINK HERE
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2598017

This is the report that ran on Sunday's ABC World News Tonight/Weekend.
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. Great Link - Thanks! Nice to watch the video. n/t
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
24. Replace "Could" with "Have and Will Continue to"
On three...

One.

Two.

Three!

DUH!



:banghead:
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
25. Well, we have not done anything to stop them and they have stolen
the past two elections. Perhaps they are getting so arrogant they feel they can just let us in on the joke now.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. John Conyers and RFK Jr. have been working on the problem...
NO ONE was listening until now because now the thugs are worried and scared.

Which means if the thugs lose, they will cry foul and make a helluva stink. It's their m.o. = exactly what they did in 2000. :grr:
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jarnocan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
30. Hopefully the need for paper ballts will become more obvious
Bush boy Barlet was so smirky on TV this AM- about Bush's confidence concerning the vote teasing the media about how wrong they were before, and that they will be this time too, but of course he didn't say why (election fraud)
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farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
31. Wow! A MSM story without "conspiracy theory" and "election fraud"...
...in the same sentence.

Where were these intrepid reporters in Nov- Dec 2004?
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
71. Have you been watching Lou Dobbs?
over 40 stories on in in the last 3 months.

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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
34. Yeah, rigging the upcoming election is impossible, I tell you
:sarcasm:
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ItsTheMediaStupid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. Hopefully, rigging the next election would be so obvious people would riot
If we're ahead by 15 points in the polls and still lose the election, Joe Sixpack might actually put down his remote control, get off the couch and do something stupid, like riot.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #39
57. One hopes, but
I sometimes feel for Joe Sixpack to do what you say, Bush would have to come on TV and say with a smirk: "Karl Rove and I have stolen the last three national elections and there's not a damn thing any of you piss ants can do to stop us from stealing the next one."

Even then, to use an old Lenny Bruce observation, people would probably be saying, "Ya know, it took a lot of courage for Bush to be so honest and take responsibility like that. He still has my support."
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
36. You're a little late in joining the game ABC...
but I guess every little bit helps.
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oc2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
40. Is this is America or some third world bannana republic?

I feel that our votes are about as relevant as voting in the next elections in Russia. This is a complete and utter failure of insuring the integrity and sanctity of our votes, are now complete discredited.

Welcome to the USSA.
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oc2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
41. No wonder Rove and the White House are still very very confident.

The fix is in.
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janetle Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #41
47. Remember when Rove "admitted"
After the last election Rove made some comment about how he was being accused of flipping some switch late on election day. I was so astounded that he said this. It seemed so Rovian--bring out to the public what you actually did and then say how preposterous of an idea. I mean if it really was such an "out there" preposterous thing to accuse him of doing, if he was innocent, he would have just ignored it.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
42. NOW they're concerned? NOW????
:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

Now that the GOP is threatened to lose control of one or both Houses of Congress? Now???

What is it that makes them so vulnerable NOW, rather than when we were all being told "Bush won. Get over it!" and "There's no evidence that votes were tampered with"? Were they less vulnerable then? NO!

On the one hand, I'm thrilled to see this "story" FINALLY hitting the front pages. On the other hand, they are leaving out mention of the past TWO elections!
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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
44. Ya think?
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
45. Recommended...
These stories always make me ill. I am 100% convinced that the 2004 election was purposely stolen, and the greedy little buggers are going to try to do it again this year.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
48. My question would be how are Poll Workers being trained to...
...deal with the problems of hacking and malfunctioning voting machines? It is my understand that the vast majority of poll workers are there to assist voters who may be confused or intimidated by the new e-voting machines, and these workers really aren't being trained to recognize the signs of hacks or machine tampering.

Certainly the public statements by the machine manufacturers indicate that they are not even acknowledging that hacking schemes are even a problem. So they are certainly not preparing workers to look for such problems and in fact are doing just the opposite, conditioning workers to not even question when hacks may be suspected.
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janetle Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #48
51. My 78 year old Mom is a poll worker
They just called her to come in even though she missed the "training". She has done it for so many years, they said she didn't need the training. Besides, she was told "they had machines now".

And this is Montana where we want Tester and not Burns!

I mean my Mom has a computer and can send e-mails and save pictures of her great grand children but there is no way she is any kind of effective defense against a fixed Diebold voting machine.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #51
58. Likewise I have a 66 year old friend who is a poll worker and she
...gets extremely defensive if I bring up the possibility of e-vote machine hacking. She calls those suggestions "rubbish and horse-hockey", and claims that it is all nonsense. It is these types of responses which worry me, because these people are obviously being told and conditioned to ignore any suggestions that the machine vote counting software is vulnerable to tampering. Bless you mother's heart for the work she is doing as well as all of the other poll workers around the country. I just hope they are not being set-up as patsies.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
50. I hereby declare Max Cleland the winner over Chambliss!
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 11:00 AM by higher class
Ia there a site that has a long list of methods they used in FL, OH, and highlights of unique ones they committed in other states that are not machine related?

I think I'm going to do a corner or house handout.

Do we have more than one crime so far this election - we have the one about the threatening letter mailed to Latinos in CA?
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ClusterFreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
53. Well, welcome to the party ABC News....
What is it, several years now since the rest of us smelled the joe and started beating the drum about this subject?

Nice goin'.

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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
55. Get ready. We will not take this lying down.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #55
62. Definitely.
If this one's stolen again there's got to be a Revolution.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. Most of my current anxiety is based on this possibility
It's something that must be done, but it's extremely scary at the same time. I truly hope it doesn't come to that.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #65
70. I'm with you.
!!
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MAX 1 Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
68. H A V A
Hava bite out of Democracy and let private companies be in charge of the counting process.

After all, it was the Great Communist dictator that stated, "It doesn't matter who votes, but who counts the votes."

Well America, that sentiment has come back to roost. It doesn't matter who votes, but who holds the source code.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYKI66vPSBY&eurl=

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2598017

But seriously, ANYONE who's been following this issue shouldn't be surprised. In fact, to be honest, it's too late for this election to do much other than cross fingers and toes. If the elections come out clean, then we'll be lucky. How fast will America forget about this threat AFTER the Nov. 7th tallies are done?

The funny thing is...
You can tell who's just waking up to the threat. They're the ones starting to make noises. forget those that have been very vocal for the past two years. Yea, forget them.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #68
74. We got time.... Precinct Patrols
Let's all go down to our town halls and get briefed on the election. Go with someone.

While you are there, make sure you are registered to vote and that you are on the list. You already know that? Good. Now for the real reason you are there:

Ask to see the machines in your precinct. If that isn't allowed ask questions about those machines and how votes are tabulated and sent to the state election center.

Ask lots of questions, and if you are not happy with the answers, go to your party headquarters and discuss your doubts and concerns.

Ask others to do the same in different precincts or polling places, everywhere - and beyond.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
72. EVERYONE WATCH THIS VIDEO
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #72
81. Sad commentary about U.S. democracy, fascism may be here
...to stay!
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twaddler01 Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
73. Woa....what?
:o
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
75. The most interesting thing about this was buried on page 2
Gov. Robert Ehrlich, a Republican running for reelection, advised residents to vote by absentee ballot because he had no confidence in the machines.

"I don't care if we paid half a billion dollars or $1 billion," Ehrlich said. "If it's going to put the election at risk, there's no price tag for a phony election or a fraudulent election."


So my question is, Are the Republicans going to say we rigged the election if our guys win? Sure could be.

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j_gregory1948 Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
76. this the corporate media
preparing the public for another stolen election. No wonder the White House is so confident.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
77. Electronic Voting Machines? -- be prepared people they'll do it again!!
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
80. Proud to make this a 5 star thread! Keep it at the top & spread the word!
:kick:
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
82. Watch Missouri.
Jim Kouri is a political operative posing as a news commentator tied to the deepest, most sinister wing of the Republican Party. His specific mission until recently was to heap as much bad press as possible on the pre-Porter Goss CIA. Once Goss left, Kouri lost his sugar daddy and he's gone on to other things.

Specifically, Kouri has turned his attention to Democratic voter fraud in Missouri.

I think this means the black-baggers have moved in to Missouri--and probably everywhere else. I don't know what their plan is, but you can bet it involves overturning or spiking any fair election in Missouri, which appears to have felt the Ashcroft burn.
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
83. "Skewer" is more like it. How long is it going to
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 03:17 PM by happydreams
take for this myopic MSM to get it???
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
85. Diebold probably sent her the disks.
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babydollhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
89. kick
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