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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:18 PM
Original message
Bush criticised for duping air traffic control
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=472806

13 December 2003

President Bush's secret Thanksgiving Day trip to Baghdad has been criticised by the British air traffic controllers' union for threatening the safety of other travellers and exposing a weakness in the system that could be exploited by terrorists.

David Luxton, the national secretary of Prospect, said that Mr Bush's surprise holiday flight to visit American troops serving in Iraq, during which his Boeing 747 was falsely identified to air traffic control as a Gulfstream 5 jet for security reasons, broke international regulations.

"The overriding concern is if the President's men could dupe the air traffic control, what's to stop a highly organised terrorist group from duping air traffic control?" he told The Washington Post.

<snip>

Mr Luxton said the journey was in breach of regulations against filing false flight plans set by the International Civil Aviation Organisation, which apply to military plans using civilian airspace. He said that by identifying itself as a Gulfstream it endangered itself and other air traffic.



So what happens when you break international regulations? If you're W, nothing probably.



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PartyPooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. If you're dictator and emperor of the world
you have nothing to worry about. The sky's the limit!

:eyes:
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JailBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. What a hoot!
Wouldn't it be ironic if some terrorist group did emulate the Thanksgiving Fuhrer, did their dirty work, then left a turkey as a calling card?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. they are sooooo bush league.
so very non professional. Anything for a photo op ends up slammin' them in the face everytime.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MoonAndSun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. There is no fairness for AWOL, the deserter is a coward and an
arrogant bully. He is the worst type of human being because he cares for no one but himself and his oily cronies.
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conservdem Donating Member (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
27. IMO he is no coward. I doubt that can be fairly said about any president
given the target they become.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. We don't give fairness to mass murderers
around here.
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MoonAndSun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. right on, zidzi
:hi:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Hi, MoonAndSun!
:hi:
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PartyPooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. He's slammed BECAUSE it is a photo-op!
Just like it was on the aircraft carrier.

Fake turkey and fake codpiece = faux pResident

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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Ah, but he risked putting others at risk for that photo
as well as putting himself, once again, above the law. Since this became so public, he also let everyone in the world know just how dang easy it is to file a false flight plan. Most folks wouldn't do it because of the fines and stiff penalties. But hey, if I'm planning a one-way trip straight into a building, I'm not too worried about that. Who-da-thunk it would be that easy.

And welcome to DU Megrim :hi:

From the article:
He said that by identifying itself as a Gulfstream it endangered itself and other air traffic.

A Gulfstream is much nimbler than a 747 and can climb and manoeuvre away from a potential collision - something the air traffic controllers would have assumed of the President's plane even though it was not capable of such moves.

In addition, the "wake vortex" of a 747 is much larger than that of a Gulfstream and could have endangered smaller planes that might have been told by unsuspecting controllers to fly behind it.

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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. Oh, please.
Edited on Sat Dec-13-03 02:10 AM by calimary
That's because the Turkey Trot in Baghdad WAS a photo op. Nothing more.

Please. Have you heard the extent of the aftermath, as annoying but relentless facts keep rearing their ugly heads? Have you heard about the "Stars and Stripes" piece (the military newspaper, "Stars and Stripes" wherein one sergeant emailed that his troops - stationed farther out from the heavily-guarded compound - were loyal and true and to be greatly proud of but were turned away from the bush affair. The Sgt. said that when they marched a long distance to join the meal, they were told they weren't among the pre-selected who were hand-picked to be on hand. Or "pre-screened," as the Washington Post describes it, while reporting on this. It occurred with the Army's 1st Armored Division, according to a report I'm reading in washingtonpost.com.

It just seemed phony and shallow and manipulative. And then also he violated international law - international aviation law that governs the filing of flight plans and being who you say you are. Air Force One, a 747 jumbo jet, misrepresented itself to British air traffic controllers as a smaller Gulfstream 5, and went through British air space as such. But (my husband's a pilot and tells me stuff about this)apparently a Gulfstream 5 and a jumbo jet handle differently and react differently and maneuver differently, so if the controller thought he was directing a Gulfstream out of a near collision, the instructions could well be Gulfstream directions for climbing and banking and the swiftness thereof - that a 747 CANNOT duplicate because of its size and mass. So what happens if something happens? Could such a collision be avoided in such a case? And if not, to what cost - and of how many lives? More deaths for a lie?

Besides, I did read elsewhere in the washingtonpost.com story (it's called "A Baghdad Thanksgiving's Lingering Aftertaste") that the British air traffic controllers are worried about this deliberate misrepresentation. Their argument is that - if the bushies could gain entry into British airspace by pretending they're someone else, what's to stop a terrorist or terrorist group from doing the same thing?

Then again, I guess we're back to that latest bush soundbite - "International law? I better get my lawyer" or "I gotta call my lawyer" or some such wording. And THAT was about the forgive-the-debt pleadings to Russia, France, and Germany (even while you can go stuff it if you even think you're gonna get a piece of the action, contract wise) but that's another story. But we now see two separate arenas of international law at which he's openly and brazenly scoffed. I remember an era, long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away where NO ONE was "above the law," not even a president (in that case, Nixon). That, in fact, was one of the pre-eminent buzz-phrases of the day: "No one is above the law."

I'm trying to suggest that you look at the whole story. I invite you to be no longer taken in by the preferred surface treatment. Evidently, we're seeing a pattern. 1) Stage photo op - go for broke, anything goes, go all out. 2) Let photo op sink in. 3) Run for excuses and look for some diversion when the false front of the photo op falls off - as it inevitably does. Unraveling usually starts in a week or two. Look what happened with the "Mission Accomplished" on the aircraft carrier. Not such a strong card to play, after all, was it? And the turkey platter was even just a prop! It wasn't meant for a single one of those soldiers to carve into and serve to fellow battle brothers. He was supposed to pick up that tray and smile for the cameras and then put it down, shake a few hands, and then get the hell outta Dodge before the natives started getting restless post-sunrise.

It was all a sham, and a shame, just for some nice-looking photos. Strictly for appearances sake. He just used these people and this situation because he does need some heartwarming, Norman-Rockwell-Goes-to-Iraq images, especially since the last ones in the fighter jock suit didn't age well. And it's just a genuine shame that American lives are being lost for it, and American tax dollars are being squandered/stolen for it. The republi-CONS complain about the "redistribution of wealth" as a pet predilection of their opponents, but they're the worst offenders of all! It's just the profit part that always flows up. The cost part flows down. THAT is what they really mean by trickle-down. But that's another story, too.

Man (or woman!), I hope you look again. But I have read other posts. You seem consistent within what I understand to be your mindset and your philosophy and your convictions. I gently hope you'll look again. Our people over there, the fighters, and our people here, the civilians, are being had. On a turkey platter. And people of conviction can stop it.


edit for grammar
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Kinkistyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Lets not forget about that British Airways embellishment
That little action-packed, suspense-filled moment where Bush's cover was almost blown by a curious British Airways pilot that turned out to be a complete and utter lie created to add some "snazz-a-matazz" to the whole dog and pony show.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Damn straight.

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Kinkistyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. It WAS a photo-op.
He landed in secrecy at baghdad airport and met with a group of pre-informed, pre-selected troops. He carried around a fake turkey and after a whopping 2 and a half hours at the airport, he up and left. ALL FAKE. NO SUBSTANCE WHATSOEVER.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. Oh please! The creature HAS no heart or soul....fairness??
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
30. Fairness to Bush?
Bye.
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reknewcomer Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. what's to stop a highly organised terrorist group from duping air traffic
Transponder codes. Any journalist worth his salt would know that.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. So does this mean...
...the only thing terrorists need to do is paint the Presidential Seal on the side of a plane and identify itself as a Gulfstream??

Yep. Feeling real safe right now.
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tsipple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. Really Stupid
Why didn't they simply identify themselves as a 747 freighter if they wanted to maintain cover? That would have solved the aircraft type problem and better preserved security, I would think.
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Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. But then it wouldn't have looked "heroic"
My thoughts exactly: why not just describe it as a 747, with "stuff for the troops" if anyone bothered to ask. That's not even stretching the truth *too* far.

But no, that wouldn't be macho enough: better to let people think this was a super-duper mission undertaken at Great Personal Risk and Sacrifice (tm) to our Fearless Leader.

I think someone should have his (or her) Mission Impossible tapes taken away.

linda
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
14. Highly organized terrorist group? Uh, okay
Seems to me this is exactly what happened on Thanksgiving, no?

"The overriding concern is if the President's men could dupe the air traffic control, what's to stop a highly organised terrorist group from duping air traffic control?"

Oh yeah, and transponder codes are not foolproof. Anyone can make a transponder code read what they want it to read. The tough part would be dropping out of traffic control to re-appear as something else.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
15. L:et's see... what's the response? "International LAW?
I gotta call my lawyer."

I believe that was the quote, or close to it.

SCHMUCK!

It's not too late to impeach...
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
16. This contributes to a political culture of law breaking among elites
Breaking the law in the service of photo ops helps reinforce the notion that the world is now under the law of rulers rather than the rule of law.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. Hi daleo!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
21. And Shrub says, "Maybe I should call my lawyer"
yuk yuk...
Good point on the terrorist angle though...
More evidence that safety comes last for Bush than worrying about security measures that burden the rest of us....
Arrogant and ineffectual
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
22. These people are always ...
... bitching about "Hollywood liberals" but everything they do or say is "Hollywood". I not longer believe Bush* even when I see him with my own eyes :)
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
24. Falsification of ICAO flight plans: See my post of 12/5.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=255361#255381

Mr Luxton said the journey was in breach of regulations against filing false flight plans set by the International Civil Aviation Organisation, which apply to military plans using civilian airspace. He said that by identifying itself as a Gulfstream it endangered itself and other air traffic.

The Bu$h regime could care less for ICAO regulations. They are outlaws ... wanton, rapacious outlaws.


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Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
26. What's the Christmas surprise going to be?
n/t
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. W dressed up has Santa Claus
and filing a false flight plan for his sled and reindeer?

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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. W dressed up as Santa Claus ...
With a sock stuffed in his pants.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Where's MoPaul
When you need him?

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