Bush* Changing Views on Putin

Administration That Hailed Russian Leader Alters Course

President Bush, who publicly credited Russian President Vladimir Putin just 10 weeks ago for promoting freedom and democracy, has protested to the Russian leader since then for moving in the opposite direction, according to senior U.S. officials.

Bush and his foreign policy team have begun to question Putin's intentions -- and their own approach -- after the abrupt imprisonment of Russian oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky and parliamentary elections derided by European monitors as an unfair government-orchestrated triumph.

(snip)

The debate over the United States' relationship with Russia had been largely dormant in administration circles since Bush famously said after meeting Putin in June 2001 that he had gotten "a sense of his soul." When Russia unreservedly joined the U.S.-led war against terrorism a few months later, the relationship seemed sealed.

But a series of strong moves by Putin this year raised fresh doubts. The Bush administration was startled when Putin sided with France and Germany in actively opposing the invasion of Iraq. Then the Russian government shut the last major independent television network in June.

more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62533-2003Dec13.html

They don't seem to be serving him very well.

and his short war in Iraq is turning into a long nightmare.

junior's "Dead or alive" statement is about as stupid as seeing Putin's soul.

Bush was widely misquoted about seeing into Pooty-Poot's "soul." ... What he really said was he saw into the Pootster's "sole" because Vlady had a hole in his shoe. Darn that press! ;-)

First, State criticizes Russia for violating the rule of law (how rich is that) then McCain implies that maybe the Cold War ended too soon???

snip>
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is among a small group of politicians and analysts who have openly challenged the administration to be tougher with Putin. McCain spoke of "a creeping coup against the forces of democracy and market capitalism" and asserted that "it's time to face unpleasant facts about Russia."

"The new authoritarianism in Russia is more than a test of America's ability to defend universal values that have taken shallow root since the Soviet empire collapsed. It presents a fundamental challenge to American interests across Eurasia," McCain said on the Senate floor.

Two eternal wars. Because just the one eternal war was getting boring. Also, it's hard to justify new nuclear weapons when you're just faced with terrorists.

On the bright side, though, does this mean we get to stop hearing about how Reagan ended the cold war?

& just when I thought this administration might have run out of new enemies.....
at this rate, before they're finished the whole world will be on the other side of US.
oh, wait ... hmmmm.

abrupt imprisonment of the oil tycoon that's the real problem in Bush's eyes?

There are some other issues, but that was the big one.
The problem is that there is nothing much they can do about it.

Edit: The comparison with China is stupid. I don't know how else
to put it, the cases are completely different.

Although we CAN'T know (grrr) what's actually going on, if it were a novel, the visits of both bush/41 and Baker earlier this year AND the new Saudi/Russia oil deals would be interwoven in the plot.

see Putin twice?
And, how scary is the sight of those two old cold warriors chatting things up?

they don't give a damn this guy stole everything he could get his greedy hands on, after the Soviet
Union fell. Not just him, but lots of looting. These russian robber barons also got control of the tv's
, just like Chavez is up against recalling him at our comand.

Don't think for one moment, Putty Put won't snatch the very life out of the coward. He'll boil that
sob in oil.

From the current World Media Watch....

1//The Moscow Times Thursday, Dec. 11, 2003. Page 1

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/12/11/003.html



WASHINGTON TELLS MOSCOW IT’S MOVING EAST



By Simon Saradzhyan

Staff Writer



In the first meeting of its kind, a senior U.S. official briefed Russian diplomats Wednesday on Washington's plans to move troops closer to Russia's borders, stressing that the realignment should not be taken as aggression



While U.S. Undersecretary of State Marc Grossman spoke with Deputy Foreign Minister Vladimir Chizhov, President Vladimir Putin courted the defense ministers of 10 former Soviet republics with promises of continued military training and discounted weapons.



Moscow and Washington could find themselves set on a collision course should the United States decide to open bases in former Soviet republics, which Russia considers a zone of its strategic interests.



Grossman, who oversees political affairs at the State Department, emerged from his 90-minute meeting with few details about what had been discussed.



"I tried to emphasize ... that the Cold War is over and that the positions of American forces around the world sometimes reflect the Cold War and not the threats that we face today," he said at a news conference.



"As NATO expands south and east, obviously our military forces have the opportunity to follow that expansion," he said.



(SNIP)

A Defense Ministry official said Wednesday that Grossman's visit along with Rumsfeld's call for Russia to withdraw from Georgia are part of a campaign to "push Russia out" of its zone of vital interests.



"It is an attempt to create a momentary vacuum that could be instantly filled by the U.S.," the official said on condition of anonymity.



(MORE)

The American Empire? With bases around the world? What was the British Empire's rule? They must have twice as many ships in their navy as the next two biggest navies combined, I think was how that one went. How long did the British Empire last?

Also, how does this sentence make any sense: "I tried to emphasize ... that the Cold War is over and that the positions of American forces around the world sometimes reflect the Cold War and not the threats that we face today," he said at a news conference.

The Cold War is over, but our troop placement reflects the Cold War sometimes?
:crazy: :freak:

Per DU copyright rules
please post only 4
paragraphs from the
news source.

Thank you.


DU Moderator

Oh wait, from another thread a poster said "His ignorance is unstoppable".

Sheesh, he's just now getting to realize that maybe Putin isn't a nice guy wanting democracy for Russia?

?

...Rice that he hired is an expert in a now defunct country, and found someone who knew something about Russia instead? I believe that may have been a good starting point anyway.

Don

Surely a Sovietologist could have forseen the USSR's imminent collapse during the 80's? Or maybe the resource rich CIA (its coffers fattened by crack cash)? Said collapse of course had not much to do with either Reagan or the U.S. Any Sovietologist worth their salt would have seen the internal history which led inexorably there, right? Yet these are the bright minds the president* is surrounded by, the boy emperor being to busy choking on beer and peanuts to read the papers and think for himself. I'm sure Pooto poot saw right into W.'s empty eyes and soul...he now is behaving accordingly!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

made the "seeing into his soul" statement.

Putin is KGB and *Co is a rank amateur.

His inability to understand nuance and lack of finesse is a diplomatic abomination.

If McCain is criticising the end of the Cold War, is he also (by extension) criticising Saint RayGun?

It appears that *Co is groveling at China's feet and he has forgotten that China and Russia have a "Friendship Pact" and the US is in no one's good graces at this point.

Our country, for all its military might, is gravely endangered, by physically and economically, by this mal-administration's policies.

We have incompetence and ineptitude occupying every appointed office and all of the executive branch. Our Congress and Senate have confused themselves with their partisan bickering and the spinelessness of the "loyal" opposition is appalling.

I fear that January 20, 2005 is not nearly soon enough for this to have a good outcome.

administration who is so out of touch with what is going on abroad. I mean seriously, what kind of diplomacy can you expect from a guy who says, "you're either with us or against us," or "she's an unsticker," (referring to Condi Rice). Putin is not a stupid man. However he is aware that our "commander in chief" is and therefore he is giving him the benefit of the doubt--for now.

"Lets now blast Russia.........24/7"

All this economic power, all this military, all this dominance over everything on the entire planet, and you still can't get people to do what you want. I hear that the Greatest Army of All Time can't even beat a few sandy ratholes full of (insert offensive description here), at least not in less than half a year, and that it can't take on any more sandy ratholes until it gets the first ones cleared out. Does that sound like Assyria, Rome, or Nazi Germany to you? I guess what we really need is for America to become a sooperdooperpower.

there is strong pressure within Russia for a return to communism. The rulers are oligarchs but the people are still communist. I think we are seeing the beginnings of a new worldwide leftist move. With the leftists in the Carribean, and South/Central America gaining power, Lula, and Chavez elected to office, and the president of Bolivia being thrown out..things could get interesting in the next few years.

he was just one of the more colourful mass murderers of our time. But one rich man is inconvenienced, now there is hell to pay!

The hypocrisy is disgusting, but such strident transparancy is appreciated.

"That's MY schtick!!"

(Rule number one: never upstage a narcissist...)

Bush and Soros who just gave $15 million to the Democratic Party on the same sheet of music? Not Bush and Soros who are both part of Carlyle. Say it isn't so! </sarcasm>

I can't shake the feeling that we are heading to a showdown with Russia. I felt this the first time I saw the look in Putin's master chess-player, ex KGB agent eyes when he would look at Bush (back when Bush was babbling about peering into Putin's soul)

Putin made it clear to Bush recently that America is to stay out of the Caspian Sea and not pull any more of that "Democratic" crap that was pulled in Georgia.

By the way, in case anyone here is keeping an eye on who's behind the anti-Dean/Osama ad, here's a little information we should file away:

America is at a crossroads, facing perhaps the most important Presidential election in a generation. That’s why Americans for Jobs, Healthcare and Progressive Values was formed.

Our mission is to inform and educate citizens as to the various presidential candidates’ stands on critical issues facing American families related to jobs, healthcare and progressive values.

The Honorable Edward F. Feighan, President

"About Us"

Former Congressman Edward Feighan is the President of Americans for Jobs, Health Care & Progressive Values. He is also currently the Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of ProCentury Corporation, the parent of the Century Insurance Group based in Columbus, Ohio. The Century Insurance Group is a specialty-lines insurer, writing commercial property/casualty insurance for niche markets nationwide, operating in 49 States and has annual gross premiums of approximately $175 million. Mr. Feighan has served as member of the board of directors of ProCentury since October, 2000.

Mr. Feighan served 20 consecutive years in elected office beginning in 1972. He served as a State Representative for six years, a Cuyahoga County Commissioner for four years, and as member of the United States House of Representatives for ten years. Congressman Feighan has been recognized as a leading authority on foreign policy and international trade and finance.

Since departing Congress in 1993, Congressman Feighan has served as a member of the Commission on Privatization in Russia; the U.S. Commission for Improving the United Nations; the Board of Trustees of the National Democratic Institute for International Affairs; the National Council of International Programs; and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.

From 1996 to 1998, Mr. Feighan served as the Senior Vice President, founding President, CEO and director of Century Business Services, Inc. (NASDAQ: CBIZ). Century Business Services was recognized as the Best Growth Company in Ohio in 1999 by the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Mr. Feighan is also a founding partner of American Foreign Capital Partners (AFCAP). Maintaining offices in Cleveland, Ohio and St. Petersburg, Russia, AFCAP represents several multi-national businesses in the former Soviet Union. From 1998 until Mr. Feighan joined the senior management of Century Insurance Group, he served as the Managing Partner of Alliance Financial, Limited, a Cleveland, Ohio-based firm specializing in mergers, acquisitions and merchant banking services.

http://www.progressivevalues.com/default.asp?ID=3

====

Edward F. Feighan was Bill Clinton's campaign Communications Director who got pretty close to Hillary at the Institute for Policy Studies
http://www.ips-dc.org/index.htm

It was Edward F. Feighan who introduced the Brady Bill in the House in 1987 as the NRA campaigned heavily against the gun control issue. http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Aborn1.html

George Stephanopoulos was his Administrative Assistant and later his Chief of Staff.
http://63.147.65.175/books/chap0411b.htm

Served on the Clinton Administration: Committee on Health, Education, Labor & Pensions
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/dward/classes/congpres/sim00.html


Neo-cons
vs
Centrists
vs
Progressives
vs
Corporations
vs
sincere, confused people, who don't have a clue about what's really going on
-----------

My theory? Soros and his 15 million. Soros never makes an investment he's not going to recoup handsomely. Hang on to your hats boys because Soros is furious at Putin right now for locking up his mafia oil buddy in Russia, shutting down Soros' "Democratic operations" that were financing the same kind of Democracy the National Endowment for Democracy trying to bring to Venezuela (oil) and sternly warned Soros and Bush to stay the hell out of the Caspian Sea area not try that little stunt they pulled in Georgia with Shevernadze again.

Meanwhile Soros is funding Democratic Think Tanks to "oust Bush" and replace him with a kindler, gentler Bush.

I don't think Pooty-Poot will let it get to a confrontation,
and he seems to be on excellent terms with everyone else. But
I do think that certain interests are absolutely livid about his
sudden assertion of sovereign Russian power.

Just found this:

US accusations smell rank
November 26, 2003 Posted: 18:30 Moscow time (14:30 GMT)

Not content with exporting "democracy" to Iraq, elements in the U.S. government, in their infinite hypocrisy, self-righteousness and busy-bodyness, have decided to push for "democracy" in Russia. The General Prosecutor's Office's attack on Yukos' now-defrocked CEO is being read on the other side of the Atlantic, apparently, as a heinous attack on "democracy" that must be punished by Russia's being thrown out of the G8.

Former U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense Richard "Prince of Darkness" Perle, his democratic credentials well attested-for by his having helped toss hundreds of people into prison sans charge, Sen. John McCain and Sen. Joseph Lieberman are all calling for Russia's expulsion from the G8 because the General Prosecutor's Office has not been sufficiently "democratic" in its handling of their Golden Boy, former Yukos CEO and now jailbird Mikhail Khodorkovsky. Representatives Tom Lantos and Chris Kox are also preparing to chime in, adding their voices to the chorus of people who know next to nothing about Russia lambasting it. Perhaps most importantly, international financier George Soros endorsed the expulsion, perhaps feeling some special bond of sympathy with Khodorkovsky that only billionaires can share.

Truly, it is an amazing thing to behold — then-President Boris Yeltsin can shell parliament in 1993, thousands of ordinary Russian citizens can rot in prison under horrendous conditions on sometimes trumped-up charges and environmentalists can be persecuted, and nary a word of protest is heard. The one thing that draws the ire of these people, who seem to have a rather elitist notion of "democracy," is an attack on a multibillionaire who, incidentally, is very likely guilty as sin. Some may have forgotten how Khodorkovsky made his money in the 1990s and what it led to, but we have not. For all his slick PR machine, generous "endowments" and genuine clean-up of his former company, Khodorkovsky in reality has been only the most successful of the gangsters who commandeered the Russian economy, and rushing to the defense of their favorite bandit and trying to portray him as some Moscow version of Nelson Mandela does not cast his foreign friends in a positive light. Money does indeed talk, in the halls of power as well as on the tawdriest of criminal streetcorners.

<snip>
When faced by something so utterly hypocritical and morally rancid wafting its way across the ocean, the best Russia can do is hold its nose, walk away — and let the General Prosecutor's Office do its job.

http://www.russiajournal.com/news/cnews-article.shtml?nd=41487

...

"Der Fuhrer is a vigorous man."

"Der Fuhrer has honesty and integrity."

The Washington Post said:

"... and {Russian} parliamentary elections derided by European monitors as an unfair government-orchestrated triumph."

You mean our republinazi govt. has a problem w/unfair elections? }( </sarcasm>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=157278#157853

:nuke: