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(Robert Fisk:) Iraqi insurgents offer peace in return for US concessions

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sabra

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Fri Feb-09-07 09:16 AM
Original message

(Robert Fisk:) Iraqi insurgents offer peace in return for US concessions

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article2251354.ece

Robert Fisk: Iraqi insurgents offer peace in return for US concessions
For the first time, Sunni insurgents disclose their conditions for ceasefire in Iraq

For the first time, one of Iraq's principal insurgent groups has set out the terms of a ceasefire that would allow American and British forces to leave the country they invaded almost four years ago.

...

Shia militias are nowhere mentioned. The demands include the cancellation of the entire Iraqi constitution - almost certainly because the document, in effect, awards oil-bearing areas of Iraq to Shia and Kurds, but not to the minority Sunni community. Yet the Sunnis remain Washington's principal enemies in the Iraqi war.

<snip>

Then come the conditions:

* The release of 5,000 detainees held in Iraqi prisons as "proof of goodwill".

* Recognition "of the legitimacy of the resistance and the legitimacy of its role in representing the will of the Iraqi people".

* An internationally guaranteed timetable for all agreements.

* The negotiations to take place in public.

* The resistance "must be represented by a committee comprising the representatives of all the jihadist brigades".

* The US to be represented by its ambassador in Iraq and the most senior commander.

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illinoisprogressive

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Fri Feb-09-07 09:21 AM
Response to Original message

1. Bush will ignore it as he wants to stay forever in endless war

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htuttle

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Fri Feb-09-07 09:23 AM
Response to Original message

2. Condition one is possible, Condition two? Will never happen

Condition three? Achievable, but Bush won't stick to it anyway.
Condition four? You've got to be kidding -- not with this administration.
Condition five? Could be done, but unlikely and hard to achieve.
Condition six? Why? They don't know what they're doing, and don't have any say in the matter anyway...Who would trust the word of a BushCo capo at this point?

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Dhalgren

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Fri Feb-09-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message

3. Bush doesn't want a ceasefire. Never has, never will.

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MrPrax

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Fri Feb-09-07 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #3

4. You mean....

The GOP doesn't want a withdrawal any more than the Democrats...isn't that what you meant by referring to ONLY to lame duck Prez who ONCE invaded Iraq?

Are there democrats pushing for even withdrawal let alone a negotiated settlement?

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Dhalgren

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Fri Feb-09-07 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #4

5. Bush doesn't appear to be very "lame-duck-ish", if you ask me.

Edited on Fri Feb-09-07 09:49 AM by Dhalgren

He seems to still hold all the power, because there is no group in congress who has yet stood up against him. Until they do, he will be the Dictator..er..Decider...whatever...

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MrPrax

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Fri Feb-09-07 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #5

9. Funny you mention it...

I haven't noticed that here.

I have noticed strong emotion presented for everything from minimum wage to the honor of Hillary Clinton...but that 'emotion' seems to disappeared.

Could it be that the elites that run the democratic party are actually warmongering right wingers who simply go lost in the shuffle while everyone was dog piling Bush and the GOP?

I would hate to think that's what's going on...Americans really don't need the Iraq war 'spun' again.

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Dhalgren

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Fri Feb-09-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #9

11. I agree completely.

Enough is enough. If the Democrats cannot be trusted to do what must be done, then we must look to other means or other parties. We are past the point where this debacle can be "managed". Bush started this war, but he had support from Democrats as well as Republicans. Feingold and Kucinich have both presented plans for complete withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, but the Democratic Party has not stepped up and embraced either plan (they are very similar plans and could be combined easily). The Democrats have to be put on notice that war "management" is not an option - war ENDING is the only option.

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msongs

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Fri Feb-09-07 09:49 AM
Response to Original message

6. we don't need cooperation of iraqi criminals to "leave the country"

this gang of iraqi murderers and thieves has no say over US involvement. departure is a matter of the congress and president and it is the american people who can achieve this departure.
how nice of them to talk about "proof of goodwill" when they actually have none.

let us hope that people at DU do not think of this rabble calling itself "jihadist brigades" as having any integrity worth mentioning.

In my values system, car bombs in market places are despicable.

Msongs
www.msongs.com

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EFerrari

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Fri Feb-09-07 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #6

8. There were no suicide bombers in Iraq until we invaded.

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kingoth

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Fri Feb-09-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #8

34. Do you live there? Where'd you get your facts ?

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EFerrari

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Fri Feb-09-07 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #34

36. Tell you what, what don't you educate me. How many suicide bombers

did an action in Iraq before we invaded?

Always happy to get better information. :hi:

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Warren Stupidity

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Sat Feb-10-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #36

38. insert crickets chirping here nt.

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Warren Stupidity

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Fri Feb-09-07 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #6

10. You do realize that we invaded and occupied their country, right?

What integrity do we have?

Do our soldiers and their bombs, which routinely kill large numbers of civilians, have this integrity that you speak of?

Our congress should indeed decide to end the Iraq War Crime, but our departure may in fact be forced not by congress but instead by these same iraqi murderers and thieves that you so despise.

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Dhalgren

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Fri Feb-09-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #6

12. These "murderers and thieves" you speak of are actually fighting

for their country. What are US troops fighting for? Your statement regarding Iraqi fighters could have been made by a British Lord in 1777 about the American thieves and murderers with almost no change in words. The British were finally forced to negotiate with the American "rabble" after France came in to save our asses, so there is a precedent there....

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brentspeak

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Fri Feb-09-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #12

14. Have you had your head examined lately?

You're defending the dirtbag murderers of 3,000 U.S. servicemen and countless Iraqi civilians by likening them to the American Revolutionaries.

Maybe you were just being sarcastic...

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Dhalgren

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Fri Feb-09-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #14

15. Have you had your heart examined lately?

If you can't see that Iraqis fighting the US occupation are not just "murderers" and "dirtbags" then you may need an eye exam, as well. The US is in THEIR country, KILLING their people. What would you and Mr. Cheney have the Iraqis do? Ask for another? The US is in the wrong in Iraq and no amount of vilification of those fighting us will change that. There is a great deal of similarity between the Iraqi insurgents and the American colonial rebels, if you won't see it, then that is on you.

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coalition_unwilling

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Fri Feb-09-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #15

20. Thank you. Posters like the one you responded to make me

ashamed to call myself a Democrat.

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Name removed

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Fri Feb-09-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #20

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Warren Stupidity

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Fri Feb-09-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #22

24. So in your dichotomy one must either

oppose the insurgency as murderers or support al qaeda.

That is of course a

False Dichotomy

Our belief that the people of a nation under occupation have a right to resist that occupation is not equivalent to supporting international terror gangs such as al qaeda.

You have bought into and are propagating the lie that we are fighting international terrorists in Iraq. We are not. Almost the entire insurgency (something like 96%) is composed of local Iraqis, primarily sunni Iraqis, and thier primary motive, stated clearly and repeatedly, is to toss our army out of their nation. Al Qaeda, despite the rightwing hate lies that you appear to have swallowed whole, is not leading the insurgency, nor is any al qaeda organization a major component of the insurgency.

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coalition_unwilling

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Fri Feb-09-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #22

26. I'm surprised the moderators allow you to make such insulting

and demeaning remarks. Since you have bought the BFEE line that the Iraqi Resistance is primarily foreign jihadists and not indigenous Iraqis, I am ashamed to be associated with a Democratic Party that includes yahoos like you.

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htuttle

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Fri Feb-09-07 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #22

30. Because the waiting list is too long nowdays...

...plus they are only taking people with a 3.75 grade point average and above. Not to mention recent tuition increases!

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brentspeak

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Fri Feb-09-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #15

23. I believe the insurgents are looking for more suicide bombers to replace

Edited on Fri Feb-09-07 03:43 PM by brentspeak

the ones who just blew up a few hundred Iraqi men, women, and children over this past weekend. Seeing as you have so much sympathy for the insurgents, maybe it's a job right up your alley.

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Warren Stupidity

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Fri Feb-09-07 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #23

25. Perhaps you ought to volunteer for the war.

Since slaughtering all these bad folks is such a just cause, please enlist.

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Warren Stupidity

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Fri Feb-09-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #14

21. Oh bullshit.

We invaded their damn country. They are not murderers. It is a war we started for no good reason. The Iraqis have every right to resist our occupation of their country. Yes indeed it is a crime that Bush sent our soldiers to die in a criminal war of aggression against Iraq. Blaming the Iraqis for resisting our invasion puts you in the war crime enabler camp.

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JoFerret

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Fri Feb-09-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #14

33. An eye for an eye

makes the world blind.
(Sarcasm: have we avenged 9/11 yet?)

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kingoth

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Fri Feb-09-07 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #6

32. I second that !

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KansDem

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Fri Feb-09-07 09:49 AM
Response to Original message

7. Uh-oh! This won't go with this administration...

The negotiations to take place in public.

Bush hasn't done ANYTHING in public, except eat cake, play guitar, and sit and do nothing when told we were being attacked...

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A-Schwarzenegger

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Fri Feb-09-07 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #7

13. He didn't do nothing. He read a book. And twitched.

Well, tried to read a book.

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Auntie Bush

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Fri Feb-09-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #7

19. You forgot something.

Ride his bicycle.
Fall of his bicycle and scooter.
Crush his face on the table.
Probably drink and snort.
Read the sports pages in the newspaper.
Listen to DVDs to find out what's going on in the world...with ALL the bad news deleted.
Chop wood.
Maybe meet with Gannon...let's not forget Gannon.
Lie his ass off!
Pray to God and beg for forgiveness.
Hide under the covers and ask Laura to protect him the angry public.
Curse at Cindy Sheehan.
Those are just the tip of the iceberg.

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MissMillie

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Sat Feb-10-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #7

41. these negotiations won't take place w/ Bush or any US govt.

the point is that they want the U.S. to leave, and then they want to sit down and negotiate with Shia factions (what is now the Iraq govt--which they want dissolved) in Iraq.

Now, a lot of their conditions can't happen... but if we can make the negotiations take place, isn't that progress?

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Norquist Nemesis

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Fri Feb-09-07 11:58 AM
Response to Original message

16. Hold on! They're offering it to the U.S.? I thought the Iraqi Gov't

was in charge.

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Dhalgren

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Fri Feb-09-07 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #16

17. Oh, good one! Just spit my coffee!

:rofl:

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Hobarticus

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Fri Feb-09-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #16

28. Oh you poor dear...

Bless your little sunshine-and-rainbows heart.

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underpants

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Fri Feb-09-07 12:21 PM
Response to Original message

18. Bush will get played on this too-Let's review how the Iraqi's "free elections" came to be

The original plan was for the US military to appoint governors and local governments....Sistani politely said no

Then they said okay the US military will select caucuses who will select the governors and the local goverment people....at this point Sistani got pissed off and publicly demanded ONE MAN ONE VOTE and got a 1/4 million people into the streets the very next day.

Bush ran out to a microphone and announced how glorious it was that the Iraqis have the freedom to do this and that there would be FREE ELECTIONS ONE MAN ONE VOTE and that because the new reason that we invaded.

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Hobarticus

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Fri Feb-09-07 05:19 PM
Response to Original message

27. Sorry pilgrim, but we don't negotiate with them there terrists...

So go right on back to killin' us.

This will sink like a stone.

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Trillo

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Fri Feb-09-07 06:06 PM
Response to Original message

29. It's a crack of the door

streaking light across the floor of darkness.

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0rganism

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Fri Feb-09-07 06:56 PM
Response to Original message

31. "I'm not finished! Before we let you leave, ...

... your commander must cross that field, present himself before this army, put his head between his legs, and kiss his own arse."

I'm surprised Fisk left that part out. It would fit well with
---
Indeed, the insurgent leader specifically calls for the "dissolution of the present government and the revoking of the spurious elections and the constitution..."

He also insists that all agreements previously entered into by Iraqi authorities or US forces should be declared null and void.
---

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kingoth

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Fri Feb-09-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #31

35. good one lol

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EFerrari

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Sat Feb-10-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #31

39. That's right. These people keep talking to us as if we are civilized

and we keep laughing at them and responding like thugs.

Home of the brave.

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ohio2007

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Fri Feb-09-07 09:10 PM
Response to Original message

37. Is this a Sunni press release?

In a nutshell, it says Sunnis want minority rule reimposed.
phatt chance

They will have to secede from Iraq and lean on the House of Saud in hopes to be not only recognized as a sovereign nation but beg for welfare to sustain the nation.

I could be wrong but.....

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MissMillie

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Sat Feb-10-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message

40. Is there any chance at all

that a coalition of other countries might be willing to assist in this process. If we can bug out but be assured that there is someone there to assist in maintaining some security in the region and act as some kind of mediator in the negotiations....???

Whenever I hear that people want to sit down and talk things out, I think that's a good thing.

Of course some of these "conditions" have to be negotiable.

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ohio2007

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Sat Feb-10-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #40

42. It's up to Maliki to give this proposal a thumbs up or down.

Why wasn't his opinion on this matter covered?

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