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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:20 PM
Original message
Top American General (Pace) Disputes US Military Claim on Iran

http://voanews.com/english/2007-02-12-voa20.cfm

Top American General Disputes US Military Claim on Iran

The top American military officer, General Peter Pace, declined Monday to endorse the conclusions of U.S. military officers in Baghdad, who told reporters on Sunday that the Iranian government is providing high-powered roadside bombs to insurgents in Iraq. General Pace made his comments during a visit to Australia, and VOA's Al Pessin reports from Canberra.

General Pace said he was not aware of the Baghdad briefing, and that he could not, from his own knowledge, repeat the assertion made there that the elite Quds brigade of Iran's Republican Guard force is providing bomb-making kits to Iraqi Shiite insurgents.

"We know that the explosively formed projectiles are manufactured in Iran. What I would not say is that the Iranian government, per se (specifically), knows about this," he said. "It is clear that Iranians are involved, and it's clear that materials from Iran are involved, but I would not say by what I know that the Iranian government clearly knows or is complicit."

Military officers who spoke to reporters in Baghdad, Monday, on condition of anonymity, said the high-powered projectile bombs are made with parts manufactured in Iran and that intelligence indicates the parts are sent to Iraq with the approval of senior Iranian officials. The officials said the bombs, whose projectiles can pierce the skin of an armored vehicle, have killed 170 American troops.

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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. we have to attack Iran so Bush can stay in Iraq. They will not leave all that
oil behind. Wolferwitz even said this war was not about WMD. They want to re-arrange the Middle East as they have stated over and over again. PNAC. This way they have control of the oil trade, a vital interest of our oil dependant nation. Even our military would cease to exist with a steady oil supply. We are in the mist of oil wars, which, if we don't do all we can to stop, the world is going to get uglier and uglier.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Pace said he was not aware of the Baghdad briefing" mygawd--Is
this possible-------the top guy was left out???????
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. means either two things - 1) he's lying 2) has not idea what's going on
well maybe there should be a 3) all of the above
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Pace has never seemed all that bright IMO..
Anyone who can stand with Rummy like he did (and not want to punch him in the face repeatedly) gets no respect from me.

I'm guessing he also has no problem lying if so ordered.
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ItsTheMediaStupid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. High level suck-ups are running the government. Talent is not a concern.
Unless it's a talent for political lying, talent doesn't matter.

This mis-Administration is way more corrupt and treasonous than I could have imagined.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Suck ups and Bush Bots rise to the top
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
30. Can't remember who said "Politics is like a Cesspit...
... the really big lumps rise to the top"
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Or the Admin is stovepiping the bogus info because General Pace
isn't a team player.......
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. Exactly. Pace and some of the other Chiefs have been against Iran war plans since the beginning.
Why do think we haven't gotten into a REAL three-front war in South Asia, yet? These guys know exactly what the consequences would be -- military and economic disaster -- and have been fighting a quiet guerilla holding action against Bush-Cheney.

When the issue of IEDs came up last year, he refused then to endorse the Party Line.

Pace deserves our gratitute -- he's no idiot. The insubordination and refusal to follow hopelessly stupid orders by some other top brass are our last hope for staying out of a meatgrinder, unless Congress gets its sad act in gear and issues a STOP order on that check.
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-14-07 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
36. I remember the news report when General Pace first became Chairman JTS, that
he kept a picture of the first person he lost in combat under his command in Vietnam on his desk. If I remember it correctly, it was to put a face on the consequences or human toll of his orders and war in general. He seemed very genuine in his feelings.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Why settle for one when you can have both?
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Cripes, could the US military look any dumber
:eyes: He didn't know about the particulars of the briefing????
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. He must have been busy decorating his uniform.
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partylessinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. Prediction: Pace will be the next to retire or be re-assigned.
Pace dare not stand in the way of the BushWar moving against Iran.
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Stalwart Donating Member (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Why Not Ask Iran?
Why accuse? Ask Iran. What can they say? Yes? No?

If yes, then there is no issue. What better confirmation could there be? Will somebody say they are telling a lie?

If they say no then it gives them an opportunity to back it up. Invite inspection of the factory in Iran that made the explosive device. Invite inspection of inventory records if we give them serial numbers. Explain exactly how much can't be accounted for and why. Do an inventory.

What if Iran called our bluff and did it successfully? That is the danger is fabrication.



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Dyedinthewoolliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hmmmmmm
We were also told Saddam had WMD's................
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. PLEASE GET ON THE PHONES NOW..CALL ROCKEFELLER
Edited on Mon Feb-12-07 02:10 PM by flyarm
CALL WARNER AND RAISE HOLY HELL!!

these son of a bit$#@$ are planning to take us to war..and the top GENERAL DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS SAYING ABOUT IRAN??

in Iraq??

i just got off the phone and i was screaming at both Rockefeller's people and Warners..saying how is this possible..we have kids over there and this administration doesn't even inform one of the top generals what statements they are making about Iran????????

how is this possible??

i went nuts..and the people on the phone were very disturbed by what i just told them...about this story..and that is came from voice of america...

i said what the hell is going on..that these bastards in this white house have taken this country to hell in a hand basket..but while doing so they are killing our kids...i said it will be over my dead body that these sob's in this white house are going to take this country into another war based on nothing but bullshit and lies...and that the media is going to get away with this bullshit again!!

i was furious..

call cnn too..,tell then stop the bullshit of playing the pawns in bushes march to another war of lies!! enough..we need to get busy..and we need to stop these mother fuckers! now!!

please take a few minutes to call and raise holy hell!!

thanks ..fly
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thethinker Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I really believe
a massive write in campaign might slow this down. I can't imagine anything else that will. The congress critters will not stand up against this unless we demand it.

Where is moveon.org? They have no campaigns going against the invasion of Iran. Why not? Why are they always so far behind? They were very slow on Iraq also.


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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Done, k & R
Edited on Mon Feb-12-07 03:03 PM by 48percenter
sorry oops response to Fly.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. VERY clever bit of propaganda. i'm impressed.
its the best one they've done in ages.
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Rambis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
17. Why do the bombs have american writing on them
I do not watch the propaganda (news) but someone in my office said they saw american writing on the "Iranian bombs". Wouldn't there be some writing other than english on these devices? What about the 800 brazillion tons of ammo we didn't secure when we invaded a sovereign country?
This stinks to high heaven but they have already called the Iranian prez crazy several times setting up an invasion this is more "evidence" that we need to go get them.
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Maybe it's some of the stuff Oliver North sold them in the 80s.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
18. Since when is the manufacturing source a cassus belli?
We are the worlds number one arms vendor. When our weapons kill members of some country does that give them just cause to make war on us?

Our weapons are killing plenty of people in Africa right now. Do those nations under attack by insurgents with our weapons now have the right to bombard our nation?
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TheLastMohican Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Same thinking here
Probably the Russian also were itching their fingers on the button, when they found out that American Stingers were killing their boys in Afganistan.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
22. So how long before he retires?
Either that or he may have an accident.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
24. Joint Chiefs chairman sees no evidence of meddling by Iran's regime
Posted on Mon, Feb. 12, 2007
Joint Chiefs chairman sees no evidence of meddling by Iran's regime
By Jonathan S. Landay
McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON - A day after the U.S. military charged Iran's government with shipping powerful explosive devices to Shiite Muslim fighters in Iraq to use against American troops, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Monday that he hasn't seen any intelligence to support the claim.

Marine Gen. Peter Pace's comment could make it harder for the Bush administration, its credibility about Iran questioned because of its false pre-war claims about Saddam Hussein, to make its case that Iranian meddling in Iraq is fueling sectarian violence and causing U.S. casualties.

At a briefing Sunday in Baghdad, U.S. military officials said the al-Quds Force, an elite Iranian paramilitary organization, is sending arms into Iraq that include bombs that shoot molten metal jets through the armor of American tanks and Humvees.
(snip)

"We know that the explosively formed projectiles are manufactured in Iran. What I would not say is that the Iranian government per se knows about this," Pace replied. "It is clear that Iranians are involved and it is clear that materials from Iran are involved. But I would not say based on what I know that the Iranian government clearly knows or is complicit."
(snip/...)

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/16683913.htm
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
25. Don't worry about Ol' Pete!
All it takes is a phone call from Chicken Dick to set him straight.

Never accuse Pete Pace of sacrificing his moral courage - - he never had any!
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kitty1 Donating Member (772 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
26. Why now, 4 years after the invasion does the Iran threat.....
all of a sudden have such imminent relevance.
The media never speculated that much about Iran's role in the insurgency until the last few months. Interesting huh?
It was all on Al Qaida and Al Zarkawi before now.
Did Iran just all of a sudden decide to forward ammo and weapons to Iraqi insurgents because the timing is right.
They really must think people are gullible.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. Let's not forget why this is impossible to start with --


from Juan Cole: http://www.juancole.com/2007/02/nyt-falls-for-bogus-iran-weapons.html

Sunday, February 11, 2007

NYT Falls for Bogus Iran Weapons Charges
Completely Implausible Numbers are Thrown Around
Repeat of Judy Miller Scandal

This NYT article depends on unnamed USG sources who alleged that 25 percent of US military deaths and woundings in Iraq in October-December of 2006 were from explosively formed penetrator bombs fashioned in Iran and given to Shiite militias:

This claim is one hundred percent wrong. Because 25 percent of US troops were not killed fighting Shiites in those three months. Day after day, the casualty reports specify al-Anbar Province or Diyala or Salahuddin or Babil, or Baghdad districts such as al-Dura, Ghaziliyah, Amiriyah, etc.--and the enemy fighting is clearly Sunni Arab guerrillas. And, Iran is not giving high tech weapons to Baathists and Salafi Shiite-killers. It is true that some casualties were in "East Baghdad" and that Baghdad is beginning to rival al-Anbar as a cemetery for US troops:

snip

Over all, only a fourth of US troops had been killed Baghdad (713 or 23.7 percent of about 3000) through the end of 2006. But US troops aren't fighting Shiites anyplace else-- Ninevah, Diyala, Salahuddin--these are all Sunni areas. For a fourth of US troops to be being killed or wounded by Shiite EFPs, all of the Baghdad deaths would have to be at the hands of Shiites!
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Cobalt-60 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
28. Iran didn't tell Iraqis how to make bombs or detonate them
The concept of using artillery shells and aerial bombs as bombs dates well back past the Second World War.
By leaving ammunition dumps unguarded, Bushco ensured they had plenty of these.
The concept of detonation by telephone came along shortly after the phone. I know I saw it in a old Twilight Zone.
Today we have cell phones to wire in as detonators.
Not only are we not buying it this time, we're not even entering the store.
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ribrepin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
29. Pace knows that other countries have supplied warring nations for centuries
If Bush would have been president during vietnam, we would have bombed North Korea, China & Russia. The U. S. would have been crushed as china and Russia sent troops to Vietnam to retaliate.

Here's a clue for you asshole--pull your troops back and secure the Iranian border!!!

Pace seems like a real Bushbot, but maybe not. He seems to disagree with the Warhawks at crucial times.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 05:41 AM
Response to Original message
31. The incompetence is killing our soldiers.
How many more must die. What will it take for our Congressional representatives to act on behalf of the people? Do we have to have a full scale conflagration in the Middle East before Congress sees whats really going on? It appears that the Christian Right will do anything to get their Revelation. God help us all when they succeed.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
32. The point is, if we get along with the Iranian government, they'll bring a halt to this crap faster.
And if we simply make bushco noises at them, they'll oppose us for decades.

bushco is poison towards peace. All they're good for is naming oil tankers and emptying the US Treasury's coffers.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
33. AP:Pace says no evidence Iran arming Iraq (Tuesday in Jakarta)
By CHRIS BRUMMITT, Associated Press Writer
2 minutes ago



JAKARTA, Indonesia - A top U.S. general said Tuesday there was no evidence the Iranian government was supplying Iraqi insurgents with highly lethal roadside bombs, apparently contradicting claims by other U.S. military and administration officials.

Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said U.S. forces hunting down militant networks that produced roadside bombs had arrested Iranians and that some of the material used in the devices were made in Iran.

"That does not translate that the Iranian government per se, for sure, is directly involved in doing this," Pace told reporters in the Indonesian capital, Jakarta. "What it does say is that things made in Iran are being used in Iraq to kill coalition soldiers."

His remarks might raise questions on the credibility of the claims of high-level Iranian involvement, especially following the faulty U.S. intelligence that was used to justify the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070213/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_us_iraq

I take my earlier comments back about making the US Military stupid....maybe this guy is trying to keep the US out of Iran.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
34. It's over for Bush and Cheney.
Poppy, too.
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E-Z-B Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
35. I predict the Bu$h administration will be #1 on the Top Ten list on Monday
because of this.
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