Kerry: Imus Shouldn’t Have Been Fired

Source: NY Times

Given the events of this week, the controversy over Don Imus’s racially charged remarks aimed at the Rutgers women’s basketball team seem farther away than just a week or so ago.

But that hasn’t stopped some from continuing to talk about the firing about the talk show host from CBS radio and MSNBC last week.
In an interview with NY1 News’s Dominic Carter, the cable news show in the city, Senator John Kerry — who was advised last year by Mr. Imus on his show to “stop talking” after that botched joke about Iraq — weighed in today on the actions taken against Mr. Imus.

Read more: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/17/kerry-imus-shouldnt-have-been-fired/

:thumbsdown:

I love Kerry, but we disagree on this issue.

However, I recommend that you click on the link and read what he actually said. Kerry actually never said those words, though he implied them.

Quite frankly, what would having should his punishment that "fits the crime" be?

I really believe that the entire Imus situation was misunderstood completely; it isn't an issue of "free speech" but rather understanding what racist and sexist language is--shock jock or not.

is that Kerry thinks a long suspension, coupled with really making changes would have been ok. He ties it with the fact that Imus met with the women, apologized and they forgave him.

This is not far from what Edwards also said - earlier about forgiveness.

To me, I found that type of humor offensive. What I found weird was that Imus has done this for decades and been well rewarded for doing it. He also as Tim Russert said has a show that is pprobably the best informal political discussions with pundits and politicians. I hate the former - but really like the latter. Especially because, although Imus is politically likely closest to an anti-war Libertarian, he has allowed politicains across the spectrum to actually get out their views. As Dodd pointed out he could get 20 minutes there but only 5 elsewhere.

If Imus could dump the obnoxious sidekicks keeping only Charles and getting others like him and could really change, if he could get the pundits and politicians back on it could be an excellent show - far better than it was.

On the other hand, no one is entitled to a radio or TV show. I do think that the unfortunate thing is that in a sea of RW radio, Imus was neutral and was willing to give Democrats time.

to say what goes against the current political wind.

Doesn't it? Even though you disagree with his take, and probably think it's for the wrong reasons, do you think it deserves respect that he said what *he* thinks, not what popular opinion wants him to say?

I don't think that's courage.

:puke:

Now, I need to shower.

THAT's the difference. That is why it is courage coming from Kerry, and meaningless coming from Duke.

Watch the video at the end of the link in the OP (very interesting cut indeed).

He isn't a sell-out, but I was still disapointed to read it.

I am a bit tired of seeing people called "racists" or similar, for having some complex thoughts about the issue.

I am glad someone like Kerry is willing to go against the tide.

signafies real leadership. I really admire him for saying this. He didn't have to say anything at all.

what Kerry did was a case study in loyalty and courage. He should be commended (eventhough I disagree with him) for his statements

I AGREE WITH JOHN KERRY. It was up to the women to judge Imus' sincerity.
And it would be WRONG for this country to not take the opportunity to make things BETTER when many black leaders like Maya Angelou said they were glad this happened because people were finally paying attention to the pain in those words from EVERY source using that language.

That doesn't negate the fact that he used, and has used for years, incredibly racist, sexist, and anti-Semitic language. That's the problem.

Ever watch Flava of Love?

The black and white women on that show used those terms at each other constantly. The terms became CASUALLY used and ACCEPTED on national television years ago and it has just gotten worse.

Those of you who feel comfortable pointing to one condemned person who used what has been accepted language on TV for years, need to check your outrage, imo.

Imus said something enormously grievous, just as many others have - but more good will come out from his stupid use of it than the black community has been able to do on its own - and THAT has been Maya Angelou's point that too many choose to ignore.

Where was it implied that it wasn't?

I just don't agree with that solution.

Thank goodness.

you see...the corporate suits at NBC, the big sponsors, you know, those white men who have LUCRATIVE Defense contracts worth billions, had to make the decision for them, in paternalistic fashion.

So, wasn't that convenient that they got rid of the only guy in the mass media with a daily audience of MILLIONS (everyone else on MSNBC counts their audience in the hundred thousand range) who was opposed to the Iraq War--the very war that brought their sponsors those billions?

I ask people to follow the doggone money. And I neer get a response. Just a sense of "Bad, bad IMUS--he must be unforgiven, forever." Even when the Rutgers team stated, specifically, that they did NOT want him to lose his job.

I guess they're in the "Who cares what you think?" category? How very BushCo...

I had your ...well, guts isn't the word. I don't believe I lack guts.

What I do lack, these days, is any belief that what you're saying is going to penetrate any but a few old and therefore thin skulls like mine.

I'm sick sick sick of so-called "Progressives" and their lynch mobs. Piss on 'em. "As ye sew, so shall ye reap," or somethin like that.

As for me, hope I die before I get old...

And of course, they'll be a whole load of people who will have amnesia and deny they ever had an intolerant and unforgiving bone in their body.

I don't consider the pilers-on to be real progressives. They're just the opposite number of the other team, who also regard politics as a contact sport and don't really see the issues with the import and gravity they deserve. They simply want "action" and the occasional smackdown, to boost their own egos by association.

I don't worry about the torch and pitchfork keyboard set--they don't intimidate me. I try to educate where I can, I use credible links, and I don't back down unless I am presented with a decent argument--in which case, I'll gladly admit an error. I haven't heard a decent argument on this issue yet.

Triple ditto what you said about the doctrinaire lynch mobs. They're here to act as a hybrid of thought police and playground bullies.

I'm a liberal and proud of it. First rule of liberalism is you always treat others decently, with the basic respect every human deserves -- even if, OMFG!!!, they have some opinions that aren't identical to yours.

And my skull is not old and thin. Yet. :-)



"The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment."
-- Bertrand Russell

I CANT BELIEVE THAT. LOL

the corporate suits at NBC, the big sponsors, you know, those white men who have LUCRATIVE Defense contracts worth billions, had to make the decision for them, in paternalistic fashion.

I hadn't been aware that the job description of university student basketball players included "make hiring and firing decisions at NBC".

I don't recall hearing NBC attempting to make the decision about whether university student basketball players would accept an apology, either. That being closer to the students' job description.

Just a sense of "Bad, bad IMUS--he must be unforgiven, forever."

I know that I, not that I matter, couldn't care less whether he's forgiven. My concern is whether his shit is on the airwaves or not -- and yup, I get it in Canada.

Even when the Rutgers team stated, specifically, that they did NOT want him to lose his job.
I guess they're in the "Who cares what you think?" category? How very BushCo...

Or they might be in the "this isn't about a university basketball team, this is about public discourse on the public airwaves of the nation" camp. Hard to tell ...

Google this: "Barack, the Magic Negro," and "Rush Limbaugh."

If you have never heard of this incident before, well, it happened just less than a MONTH ago.

Where's the outrage? Where's the condemnation? Where are the corporate sponsors turning tail and running from a disgraceful minstrel show performance by Rush-Bo?

Where's the MEDIA coverage of the outrage?

Why, nowhere.

Because Rush-Bo, ya see, SUPPORTS the war.

Anyone complaining about him isn't gonna get the AIR TIME.

It never happened unless you see it on TV, see? And GE-NBC has an interest in seeing pro-war types, even ones UNAFFILIATED with their organization, stay on the air. That's why you didn't see the story on their channel, or any other one, either.

Pull the damned string. Follow the damned money.

And all of the women, and all of the African-Americans, who objected to their airwaves being used to objectify and disparage and stereotype and degrade them, they're just stupid. But no, of course, their opinions don't count. It's only the opinions of a handful of undergraduate university students that count.

"Barack, the Magic Negro,"

Phew. If you actually think that's equivalent to "nappy-headed hos" (I'm not actually sure I got that right, since I don't speak the lingo and can't tell, but you'll know what I'm getting at), I just don't know where to start.

Pull the damned string. Follow the damned money.

Yeah. NBC couldn't afford Imus anymore. For pretty obvious reasons. No real need to go making any up.

put Imus on the leading edge of change, every week, for a good portion of twenty hours a week. That he had the potential to be an ASSET following a suspension. That he was not just willing, but ready, to be that asset.


And if you don't see that the entire drama of the "Imus change" had potential to be a major moneymaker, well, you know nothing about advertising and media. But that didn't matter to those guys, because unloading Mister "BushCo--War Criminals" who had completely flipped on the war and the administration. and was preaching his change of heart to other Republicans, was imperative.

This wasn't ABOUT NBC's corporate advertisers. Fuck, they made millions from Imus, but they make BILLIONS from the Pentagon. Billions. They benefit from this war and their bottom line would be negatively impacted if it ended a day sooner than their 'worst case' scenario says it has to.

I'm not making this shit up, it isn't a fucking woo-woo "conspiracy"--it's all out in the open, a matter of public record, if only people would take the time to look. Go check the DOD - government contracts. GE--billions. Proctor and Gamble--billions. Fucking STAPLES--billions.

Follow the damned money. To paraphrase Kanye West: "GE-NBC don't CARE about Black people." But they sure as shit do care about the billions they rake in from the Pentagon.

Every female of every age of every color are victims of degrading and dehumanizing comments. Target one, and they target all. Those comments permeate our culture and reinforce the notion of "less-than."

He does not deserve to be in such a position of power.

It was up to the audience, the sponsors, and the media owners to decide whether or not Imus kept his job. People get fired all the time for screwing up their jobs and doing stupid things. That's what happened to Imus. It was a long time coming, but I'm glad for the decision.

Seems pretty plain to me.

But they don't matter, because this apparently was never about THEM, was it?

That's what so many "enlightened" people never seem to "get". Bigotry, sexism, and pandering to hate hurts all of us - the whole society. When a minority in our country is oppressed it oppresses us all. When women are belittled and denigrated, we all are belittled and denigrated. When gays are bashed, we all are bashed. This is our fight, every citizen in this country, when one citizen is forced to sit in the back of the bus because of skin color, sex, or class, we all are forced to the back of that bus. So, yeah, the Rutgers Ladies matter, but this was never just about them...

Had the suits actually listened to the Rutgers team, instead of swiftly dumping a guy with the potential to cost them billions in Pentagon contracts, maybe we'd be tuning in to Imus this morning and hearing Black voices, not as guests, but as co-hosts. Maybe we'd be hearing female voices not as guests, but as co-hosts. Maybe the program format would be changing.

And maybe we'd still, with all that, hear a Republican preaching an antiwar message to other Republicans.

But like I said, the Rutgers Team's wishes were IGNORED. Because they really didn't count at the end of the day--they certainly were USED, though, weren't they, to achieve a goal. If they counted with the networks, the networks would have listened to what they felt was appropriate redress. But they didn't listen.

The team counted with Imus, who apologized repeatedly, and to their faces over three hours, but they didn't count with NBC, CBS, or GE, billion dollar beneficiary of contracted government largesse, who benefited greatly from getting a pro-impeachment, antiwar Republican off the air--gotta tamp down those calls for impeachment from the right, otherwise BushCo might not last until 08--and that could be billions in profit lost.

I'm thinking, give it a few weeks, and we'll be back to the same ole, same ole, bitches and hos. I think they grabbed Imus, he said "Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!" and then, they sacrificed the lamb and they are moving on.

Now certainly, Imus brought this down on his head, but the swiftness of his firing makes me believe that the corporate suits were WAY too eager to get rid of him. They didn't even wait for the Rutgers Team's take on it--in fact, they hurried to fire him when all they had to do was wait less than half a day to get that all-important viewpoint.

At least there's no more antiwar Republicans on the air anymore...whew!!!! Mission accomplished!

Edit--hideous typos

who have been using those terms casually for years before - white and black.

Flava of Love - has become a franchise fer chrissakes.

The point isn't that Imus didn't deserve backlash - he did - it was the EXCESSIVENESS of the backlash unto ONE PERSON considering that millions have been using those terms casually on TV and radio and everyday usage for years.

been looking forward to a backlash against the PUBLIC ACCEPTANCE of the demeaning of black women and all women in general for years - Flava of Love couldn't have become a successful franchise if people didn't perversely find that demeaning entertaining.

I'm with Maya Angelou - the dog/bitch stereotypes are degrading to all humans and if this major screwup by an old white shock jock finally makes people re-assess their casual acceptance of it, then THANKYOU IMUS!

Just because all examples of this kind of hate are not brought low does not mean that none should be. I agree with you that this kind of off-the-cuff hatred has no place in our society. We have to get to a place in our society, in our lives, where demeaning others is simply not a consideration - for any reason. When one demeans and belittles, and speaks hatred toward any group, race, class or gender for "ratings' or "humor" or "standing" or for whatever reason small-minded, mean-spirited bigots use to justify it, the damage being done is to us all. I say stop it wherever it can be stopped and then on to the next opportunity to stamp out this vile, corrupt strain/stain in our society.

change his mind. It's over John, deal with it.
I wonder where Kerry was when Imus's show was calling for genocide of Palestinians?

I never liked Kerry (though i might have pre-Senate career) and i like him even a little less now.

Or when he referred to Simon & Schuster as “thieving Jews”

Yes, his anti-Jewish rhetoric was reprehensible, along with everything else.

Not an unattractive trait.

:thumbsdown:

for President. Screw that. Screw the politics of expediency. Sure wasn't loyal to people who want peace.

He lost against a total idiot. And even if the votes in Ohio were changed, it does not change the fact that he waged a terrible campaign. He should have won overwhelmingly.

BTW, thank you. I am disappointed by Kerry's statement, but I can now remember how I started to like him. I checked statements made by some people are realized they were inaccurate.

Apparently JK didn't (doesn't?) view the war as either illegal or immoral.

I never believed any of those reports that had the Cheerleader besting Kerry academically, but Jeezus.....

What do you think he meant when he spoke of it not being a war of last resort, that Bush hadn't planned for the peace etc. What did he mean when in terms of future wars, he spoke of a global test. In both instances, he was speaking of the ST Augustinian concept of just war - and saying that Iraq wasn't one.

Read Kerry's Pepperdine College speech which explicitly lists these as needed to be a just war. Amazing that RW leaders can speak in code, and their base understands.

Consider that for the last year, Kerry as said the war in immoral - in many speeches. Did any other leader in mid 2006 say that?

Kerry called for more US soldiers in {i]the military, noty in Iraq . The concern was the backdoor draft and the fact that it had stretched the military too far.

self-righteous and high dudgeon rant!!

“I think that the…you know the punishment has to fit the crime so to speak. I think a long suspension, or a strong suspension met with his appropriate level, given that the team forgave him. To me it was in the hands of the young women. They made the judgment that they thought he was genuine and they felt they could forgive him. And I think it was appropriate to pay a price on the airwaves but I’m not sure that it was appropriate to say you’re off forever.”

Mr. Carter: “If Mr. Imus has a show in the future would you appear on it?”

Mr. Kerry: “It would depend on what the context of the show was obviously. If he goes back to doing the same old same old I’d have trouble doing that, but if it’s a different show and he says it’s going to be different sure.”

he should not have been fired?

Kerry may be smart and he may be a politician but he is not a smart politician. That answer ranks up there with his jockstrap buying press conference but he doesn't seem to have the instincts to be embarrassed by his own ineptness on certain things.

it should have included a lot of other commentators.

you can't count votes never cast due to suppression. What votes were not counted?

Kerry quit before all of the Ohio votes had been counted

FACT #1 Exit Polls show strong Kerry lead in several battleground states.

FACT #2 Computers calculated the votes in the states were in SEVERE differences with exit polls. More votes counted for voters, than registered voters, broken machines, bad flash rom and memory in some machines, overcharged batteries, undercharged batteries, defective optical scanners, and lastly no way to question the result.

FACT #3 John Edwards came out around 3am 11/03/04 and says, they can wait one more night because all votes need to be counted.

FACT #4 John Kerry 12 hours later calls Bush to quit.

He quits; votes still being counted.

for Democratic voters and Democratic candidates in 2002 and 2004, even though they they were charged with doing so for FOUR YEARS before election day.

in the Ohio count. Kerry in his speech said they would be counted - and they were - and Bush was still 60,000 ahead.

Exit polls are based on a sample. The company that did them itself explained that the discrepancy was due to "shy Bush voters". I don't buy this as in no previous election were the shy voters so biased from one party to the other. I think what happened was things like the incorrect voting in some areas of Ohio, where in polling places with multiple precincts - where candidates were in different orders by precincts - there were "ghosts" where Kerry was in the other precinct. In several cases these were inter city voters voting for a far RW candidaet. These people likely told the polster that they voted Kerry. At any rate, you can not prove it was the polls that were more accurate. (disclaimer - I have done extensive sample design - but not opinion or political surveys.)

Edwards came out as a spokesman of the K/E team. The next morning the numbers were less promising and offered no hope - so they conceded. Although Kerry spoke extensively (and was ridiculed for it) publicly and in teh Senate, Edwards said NOTHING about fraud, voter suppression etc throughout 2005 - though he spoke on many issues.

It is now April 2007 - There is still not proof that you can take to court that says Kerry won. The good news is a Democrat is the Ohio Governor.

There is also evidence of tabulation problems, which was just revealed. There is also evidence, and convictions, of criminal wrongdoing in conducting the recount. This is all in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland).

in addition, these might show there was fraud. They are being seen now because a Deocrat won in 2006. They still don't form an open and shut case that Kerry got more votes - with further examination they may.

I DO think that Ohio was stolen. My point is that it is NOT yet provable and in 2004 it was less provable.

I agree. I wonder if Jesse Jackson will apologize to the Duke players. I wonder if Sharpton will apologize for his anti-semitic remarks. Or any other of his misdeeds:

in your own post, both quotes mention:
1) sharpton was sued for slander, and
2) he "expressed regret" about the interloper comment.

other reality-based info:
neither sharpton or jesse jackson is a shock jock for a large broadcasting company, so they can't be fired because of pressure from advertisers. and as far as i know, both are employed by non-profits they started.
so...unless you write their board of directors and demand that they be fired, comparing them to imus is silly.
imus was actually employed, and the advertisers who pay his bosses didn't want to lose money, hence his firing...right or wrong...that's what happened.

now...any comment on the death threats received by the rutgers' women and al sharpton during the imus eruption?

He was sued, but refused to pay. Nor did he apologize in that case/issue. The court ordered him to pay. BTW, did he pay back the 100,000 dollars of campaign donations he used for personal expeditures.



Of course he did, because one of his protesters fire bombed the business in question. Gee, it was the least he could do, but I wonder if that changed his perceptions of the Jewish community.

Imus expressed regret for a far less innocuous comment, and that didn't appear to appease the witch hunters. Why would you go out of your way to delineate the hypocrisy?



Reading emphasis, mine, you should have placed that under "other non sequitur-based info"

BTW, McDonald's and Wal-Mart are leading sponsors of the Al Sharpton radio show. It is also my understanding that Sharpton is a spokesperson for Loanmax that is a predatory lender to poor people in the African-American community. Some say Loanmax even rivals the lending policies of loan sharks.

It is stating the obvious that advertisers can bear pressure for a program to be canceled or taken off the air, but the pressure was brought down upon Imus originally from Sharpton, and the latter has a record of saying disparaging remarks against other races. The fact is that nothing will pursue as a follow up to going after the likes of Beck, Limbaugh, and Savage, nor will the hypocritical Sharpton show anywhere near the same zeal going after these other shock-jocks.



Yeah ... odd ... isn't it? The self serving promo by Al Sharpton ends up hurting a lot of people, including:

1. The innocent policemen allegedly involved in the Tawana Brawley issue.

2. Labels Jews in New York as "diamond merchants," and the result of his inflammatory rhetoric results in the fire bombing of a business owned by a Jewish person. The mob of Sharpton protestors also were shouting "kill the Jews," but Sharpton only showed regret when confronted with the fact that one of the protesters fire bombed the business owned by a Jewish person.

Oh yeah, the fire bombing took 8-lives. How many lives were lost in the Imus issue with Rutgers?

3. We've already mentioned Loanmax.

4. Of course, then there's the FBI tape of Sharpton discussing laundering drug money with mobster Michael Franzese, turned FBI informant.

Incidentally, and for all the judgmental at DU, outside of the advertiser issue, don't you think Jesse Jackson should apologize to the Duke players just for integrity purposes. I mean, it's not like he's a cowboy with a ranch. Jesse Jackson is a reverend of God, after all.

i think they are generally insincere, and most people aren't really sorry for what they said anyway. like imus, they are sorry they got called on it. and by all means, jackson and sharpton should be called on their shit. sure, jackson should apologize the duke players, but something tells me that still wouldn't be enough for you.

still...i don't quite understand your argument. if sharpton has sponsors, then why haven't they been pressured to drop his show? it couldn't be the powerful "black lobby," because the numbers aren't enough, and some black people don't care for sharpton either. and if he was sued and got a judgement, then why haven't the plantiffs pursued payment?

sharpton "expressed regret"...other people "don't recall," "have no recollection" etc. sorry...i don't see the big conspiracy or double standard...it seems sharpton is just better more adept at playing than game than some would like. and in that regard, he is no different from any number of assholes in american public life, including the asshole in chief, and just about every elected official asshole in the republican party. that doesn't excuse sharpton...it explains him, and jackson, and rush limbaugh, and pat robertson, and until recently, don imus.

no comment on the death threats, i see. well here's a double standard for you: imus didn't receive any death threats.

who swam in Imus's toilet all these years.

That said, what right did Imus have to go pee and shit in the Rutgers pool???

"We Don't Swim In Your Toilet, So Don't Pee In Our Pool"

:evilfrown:

say how he really feels about this. He was more familiar with Don Imus than most of those who were demanding he be fired. I think Senator Kerry's personal feeling was Imus' words were wrong and hurtful,but he wasn't a racist. If the apology was acceptable to the Rutgers basketball team- and it was- than that should have been acceptable to us all. After all, it was the team who the words were directed at.
:thumbsup:

It's kinda like the Dixie Chicks deal. Agree with it or not, the network has to keep the listeners. If the listeners boycott, the advertising money goes down.

Now, if the GOVERNMENT had ordered Imus fired, then we'd be headed for trouble.

Imus got caught up in a perfect storm and it is a perfect case study for why we cannot tolerate currently lax corporate media ownership rules. I have not been a fan of Imus since he got so nasty on the Hill Dog. Completely knew he was a joke when he begged America to elect Bush because it would be so funny. Knew Imus was a shill after he supported Joe L for senate.

I think Imus is racist, but doesn't know it. I think he is a sexist and doesn't care. I think he did the right thing after the fact and showed that he is not a chicken shit like most of there so called reports and corporate media owners and politicians. He didn't take the Mel Gibson defence or go into rehab.

I am very disturbed in the whole good old boy culture that Imus and President Bush seem to lovingly embrace. Cowboy hats and boots, the swagger, the NASCAR, Jesus and country music.

Back in the day, IMUS got away with a lot of bad put-downs in the early morning hours where some were listening, no one was recording, forget about tv simcasts. No excuse, but this is the old school he is from.

Second, Imus choose the worst target possible. You don't pick on losers. In case anyone cares, Tenn won the NCAA championship.

Third, Rutgers is in Jersey, where IMUS works and where IMUS has been crapping on people at MSNBC for a decade. Those same workers had been watching game the night before. Twenty years ago the game would not have been televised or would have been on tape delay. Last thing the fans wanted was Imus going racists and sexist on the girls they had put so much faith in.

Fourth, all of the chicken press that loved Imus pimping their shitty books were told to zip it by the man and the chicken press did what they were told and they had the bully pulpit to keep blaring it.

Fifth, Imus was going to go out with a bang. No way this guy was going to go quietly. He says thing on his show I can not say (or want to say) in the workplace. He offened too many people at MSNBC who had no say in his hiring and Imus had lousy ratings.

Sixth, Info travel must fast than it ever used to. Im's, youtube, myspace, facebook.

Seventh, Corporate media ownership. GE/Fox/Viacom. Bad.

He's finally getting canned because sponsors were pulling their ads. In the end, it's not about what he said, it's just about MONEY. If the sponsors had turned a deaf ear, as they have been for years, he would still have a job, and still be getting millions of dollars in donations to underwrite the Imus Ranch because he opens it up to sick kids during the summer. The rest of the year it is a typical working cattle ranch. I find this curious considering he's a vegetarian and feeds the children a strict vegan diet during their stay at the ranch.

I never agreed with the way this happened. I know there are other African Americans who believe the national furor took a disingenuous turn. He was a shock jock, they get fired all the time. It was between Imus and the team, and no one was interested in that aspect.

Take back America

I usually agree with Kerry- a minor disagreement here and there does keep things interesting.

I disagree with Kerry on this, but I tend to agree with him on all the big stuff.

doesn't mean they should have.

It's their network, they can do what they want.

Let me be clear then- I disagree with Kerry for a change (I'm usually an ardent supporter)- I believe the network SHOULD have fired Imus a long time ago.

Having said that, maybe we will agree that Imus should have been lower on the list- perhaps behind the Rush Limbaughs and the other "journalists" who helped Bush lie us into a war.

perhaps.

:banghead:

has become a sewer, and Imus was mainstreaming it. I'm glad he's gone, and I hope he stays gone.

Is it a good idea to listen to what the people who went on the Imus show are saying? I am not trying to censor anyone or their opinion. I just wonder if the people who went on Imus's show and now say they think he should not be fired are afraid that someone might call them hypocrites for going on Imus's show and then saying he should be fired. When they went on the show they knew what Imus was about so how can they now say Imus should be fired. I think some people like Kerry and Edwards are just afraid of the consequences of saying Imus should be fired.

I have never heard Kerry or Edwards ever make a racist or sexist statement. I saw the lists of Democrats who went on Imus and it was pretty long, including Bill Clinton.

Don't stop at Imus, make a list of all the people who have made either sexist or racist comments, then eliminate all their guests.

Then go to the politicians themselves - eliminate any who were ever caught saying something racist or sexist. Jesse Jackson is out, Sharpton is out. Hillary with her Ghandhi joke is out, Bill made sexist comments about women like Gennefer Flowers, etc, Bidens's Indian joke makes him out.

I doubt we will have anyone left - no one is pure enough. Does it leave any of the Presidential candidates?

I think you are missing my point. My point was not that Kerry could not say he thought Imus should have kept his job. My point was I am not sure people like Kerry, who went on Imus's show would be honest and say he should have been kicked off. Kerry and other went on Imus's show even though they knew full well what he had said in the past. So, how can they now come around and say Imus should lose his job for what he said? I think Kerry and other fear that that will be the question they will be asked by Republicans. I have no problem with Kerry saying what he said, but I do wonder if he would be willing to say Imus should be fired if he really felt that way. I think Kerry and others are afraid that if the say Imus should be fired people will bring up the fact that they went on the show on numerous occasions even after he had made many horrible and degrading comments about African-Americans.

As far as Hillary Clinton and the others go if people choose not to listen to them because of the things they said in the past that is their choice. I have no problem with people questioning a persons position based on the things they said or did in the past. Each person should look at each candidate and pick the person who they like best and think has the least contradictions.

If they hanged Bush and Cheney like Saddam, they'd probably pee their pants. The Iraq War is bullshit, immoral and WRONG. Bring the troops home, impeach Bush. The Walter Reed issue was a DISGRACE. Why the fuck won't the government do anything about autism?

That's the kind of stuff you heard on the Imus show. It wasn't all frat boy, locker room, and offensive "humor." Some of it was worth a listen.

And now, the only GOP voice against the war on the radio or TV is silent. How convenient for the pro-war, pro-Bush corporate sponsors and media owners.

I contend that there are much bigger and more important voices, on the right, against the war . In my opinion Chuck Hagel, other Republican politicans, and former war generals have more of an impact when they come out against the war. Imus may have been the only Republican voice on radio or TV who spoke out against Bush, but I do not believe he was as important as people are trying to make him out to be. The 20 or 30 year generals and Republicans have more affect with one statement than Imus had or would have had with 20 hours of radio or TV time. I contend Imus was far down on the Republican media hit list.

Even if Imus was a voice of opposition to the Bush Administration that does not make up for what he said. I agree with what some people on DU have said in response to the people who say Imus should have stayed on the air because of his charity work and his opposition to Bush. Some have said saying Imus should have stayed on the air because of the other things he did was like saying it was okay for a guy to beat his wife if he just did some charity work and a few other good deeds. The good stuff that Imus did does not make up the for horrible things he said about the Rutgers women's basketball team and other prominent African-American people.

You are ignoring my point, which is that Imus reached not "Americans" but angry, white, male, REPUBLICAN likely voters. The FAUX viewers, in short, who aren't gonna tune in to MSNBC and drool over Olbermann's latest bit of cleverness, or the interview Tweety does with the disgruntled retired senior leader. No, these baastids are watching FAUX at that point and working on their third beer.

This was a rare moment for a country music listening, NASCAR and sports fan, offensive and rude "Republican" radio/simulcast host to reach those lockstep BushCo guys with an antiwar theme, and change their minds--it's OK to oppose the war, see? IMUS does, too.

But now that opportunity is lost. As is his opportunity to atone publicly, change his format, and include minority and female voices as essential and integrated features of his show. And I think he would have done that, too.

And who cares what the Rutgers team thinks?? I mean, really...they certainly didn't want him fired. They said so--several times.

They're way classier than their so-called supporters...IMO.

The Rutgers team never said they did not want him fired. They and their coach said they first wanted to meet with him and that maybe they should let the market decided. If Stringer did not want Imus fired why did she on many occasions ask if Imus is not fired what will it say about this country. In addition, she asked when people would stand up to stuff like this and make it stop. She also went further and said that if people did not stand up for the Rutgers women then who did people stand up for.

I am not ignoring your point. I just think Imus was not that important to the anti-war movement. If the people are watching FOX and want nothing to do with MSNBC I doubt they will just start viewing the war and Bush differently because of what Imus says. I truly think many more people listened to the generals and Hagel and Imus and I think the generals and Hagel had more sway than Imus. It is very easy to insult Imus due to his views on the war in Iraq. Who in the world is Imus? What has he really done? Did he fight in World War II? Did he fight in Korea? Did he fight in Vietnam? Did he Fight in Desert Storm? Does he have a degree? I am not trying to say that Imus should be insulted because he may not have fought in a war or that he may not have a degree. I wrote those things to show the ways the Republicans could attack Imus due to his view in order to discredit him. Republicans have found a way to deal with opposition figures who were much more respectable than Imus. However, it is harder to discredit a man or woman who spent 20 or 30 years in the military and fought in about two to three wars. It is also harder to discredit a person who spent time in Vietnam. When Hagel says something the Republicans who opposed his view have very little to say about him. In addition, when the generals say something the Republicans who oppose them have very little to say.

I truly think the Republicans in the media could have cared less about Imus getting fired. I truly think Imus was one of the easiest people to discredit on any stance he took. There are a ton of people the Republicans would have prefered to get off of TV and radio ahead of Don Imus. No matter what you think I contend the Republican media would have much rather gotten rid of Olbermann. With the internet a clip that Olberman did can be viewed by millions of people. So Olbermann had to ability to have the same impact as Imus with out being easily discredited because of all the other stuff he said.

It wasn't ambiguous at all.

Stringer emphasized Friday that the basketball team had never called for Imus to be fired.

"It would sadden me for anyone to lose their job," she said. "And he came in spite of the fact that he lost his job. So let's give him credit for that."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/04/13/imus.rutgers/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

And again, you are NOT taking my point. Imus's reach on MSNBC was a TINY fraction of his total audience. Most of his audience was drive-time radio, and mostly GOP. His MSNBC viewers were the small number of Democrats who watched for the political content.

But Imus was providing a COUNTERPOINT to what these GOP listeners heard at night on Faux. He was making it "OK" for these Republicans to "think for themselves" for a change.

If you don't think those sponsors, most of whom make billions from Pentagon contracts, aren't happy at this turn of events, well, there's no convincing you to connect those all-too-obvious dots.

And one more time--Olbermann preaches to an already converted choir. There's no DANGER there. His audience are slavish left-wing acolytes, many of whom ascribe virtues to the poor man that he does not possess, not people who disagree with him or who need their mind changed. Those people on the right are already watching their own cult favorite, O'Reillly.

And while Imus had millions listening over four hours, Olberman gets fewer audience members per MONTH than Imus got in a DAY. It's a huge difference. It can't be ignored.

Imus was dangerous, because he--all of a sudden--wasn't preaching the GOP Party Line. It's why he had to go.

It's just--OBVIOUS.

But if you won't see it, you won't see it. I can't help you.

as some others seem to think...you know, that "double standard" that allows hip/hop and rap folks to say things that imus can't?
your explanation makes way more sense...thanks.

GE made paltry millions off Imus, but they've paid more than that in DOD contracting FINES for failing to follow the rules--so the Imus take was small change in the big picture.

They make billions, yes, BILLIONS, from the Pentagon. As do Sprint-Nextel, Proctor and Gamble, Staples, and other big NBC (owned by GE) advertisers. And they don't even need the retail public for that payday.

Follow the money. The GE crowd wants this war to go on for as long as possible. Because when it ends, the gravy train stops. And Imus was actually hastening the day the war ended, with his "Impeach Bush, Cheney is a war criminal, fire Gonzales" themes.

Anyone who's claiming that it's a vast Black conspiracy is reaching...no, overreaching. The Reverends got the air time because GE gave it to them. Where was the air time for their irritation when Rush was singing "Barack, the Magic Negro" just a month ago? Or any one of a thousand insults that we hear, way too frigging often?

Imus was an ass, he was awful, but it's not new. He's always been that way. And I just find it curious that no one let the Rutgers Team even have a chance to weigh in before they shoved him off the stage without any opportunity to atone. It just seems a bit paternalistic to me, to "take care of everything for the little ladies" so they don't have to "worry their little heads" about it.

Why did they have to hurry to get rid of him before the team could speak? It just seems odd to me...

At least, not until Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter, O'Reilly and the other proponents of hate speech in the media are also given their walking papers.

McGuirk and Rosenberg should instead never be allowed on the airwaves, ever. They were consistently far worse offenders than Imus.

Yeah, what Imus said was really cruel and uncalled for.

Who's to say that this indirectly won't encourage even more censorship than already exists about important matters?

Of course, it was more of a market-based reaction (advertisers pulled out), so maybe it was in order. Firing the guy based directly on what he said, though, is a slippery slope.

but I find it really weird that people are using this thread to trash Kerry on things that aren't even connected to the Imus incident.

The Kerry hate just never stops.

If Kerry had a cure for illnesses, people would still bash.

networks, who received thousands of emails against imus, agreed he had created the perfect storm for himself.

war ends.

Follow the money.

he got fired and I'm glad.

completely ignored. So this wasn't about them, I guess.

Follow the money.
GE makes billions every year off of Bush's war, and only a few million off of Imus, the antiwar instigator. Which would you throw over the side if you wanted to keep your business "in the black" as it were?

There's no opportunity for Imus to use his 20 hours a week as a force for good vis a vis the entire subject of race in America.

And Imus, once he gets a hold of a subject, has a habit of worrying it to death, so he'd be unlikely to give this one short shrift if he had the opportunity.

The only GOP voice against the war, though, was silenced with his firing. And boy, was it a VOICE against the war.

I agree with Kerry and Edwards- forgiveness and redemption would have been better for Imus.

Let's revisit GE, shall we? They may have made a few paltry million off of Imus, but they make the big bucks, BILLIONS, off of the American taxpayer, and they don't even have to air any of those smarmyass commercials, either!! Ah, GE, everything from landmines to weapons systems, bringing 'good things to light' if you're in the war business!

GE--criminals: http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1254

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=16
Military contracts 2005: $2.2 billion
Defense-related contributions in the 2004 election cycle: $220,950

I have a feeling that things would have been handled differently
if Martin Luther King was alive and could have weighed in.

Our country has had such a void in leadership since the deaths of Kennedys and Martin
Luther King.

he appeared on the imus show every now and again -- wouldn't want to look like he was condoning behavior that the jerk was fired over--besides, doesn't kerry have a book to hawk?

also--everyone i saw that does appearances on the imus show said they would go back and do it again (the two off the top of my head: paul begala & craig crawford; tom oliphant said "solidarity". some people will totally sell out just to get their face on the boob tube)

They're heavy donators to his causes, as well--the hospital for brain damaged vets and the ranch for kids with cancer.

But follow the money. GE can keep sucking billions out of the taxpayer war trough, because one Republican, the ONLY Republican, calling for impeachment is safely off the air.

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/89728-0

Pretty silly if you ask me. But then Russians have a hard time really believing that anyone could REALLY get in trouble for making racists remarks in th US. Most Russians (over there) I know hold quite openly racist opinions of blacks in general (African American or otherwise), and I suspect that such attitudes are unfortunately widespread.

Imus has been saying this kind of racist and sexist crap for years, but only NOW it becomes a big deal. As the whole Washington establishment (according to Randi Rhodes) listened to Imus, it just took listening for one more comment like this to get him out of his job. I don't completely dismiss the idea.

The initial report came from Media Matters - a Soros-funded organization. It snowballed from there.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200704040011

This had nothing to do with Iraq and everything to do with American political sensitivities toward race. And Russians, by and large, can't accept that. It had to be some kind of conspiracy. Hence the Pravda article.

including some Journalists who believe the
punishment did not fit the crime.

Imus belongs on the Wacko Channel.

It's weird how a day's events will make last week's big headline so trivial.

Regardless, it's nice to see he's not our nominee again. And really, I like the guy, but why can't he make one clear fucking declaration like "I will not run for president in '08" (who knows what he'll do in a future election)...As for Imus, he's a stupid fucking ass hole, and is irrelevant at this point. Then again, it looks like Kerry is making himself sort of irrelevant as well.

People who work hard, don't rock the boat, stay loyal, receive glowing reviews and give their all get fired every day. And they don't get the multimillion dollar severance package that Mr. Imus received.

The I-Man blew it, sponsors pulled out, game over. Clearly he's not backed by the true-believer money that keeps Limbaugh and Savage on the air (and Rush shoulda been cut loose with the Chelsea Clinton/White House dog crack way back when).

Would Kerry be as forgiving if, say, Imus/Bernard/Sid referred to Alexandra and Vanessa as two hot little sluts who give great oral? Help me see the difference.

first, the line was said for humor purposes only....not with malace.

2nd, instead of going after the gangsta rappers who use these expressions AS EVERYDAY LANGUAGE , they go after some old white guy who uses it flippantly.

third, imus's accusers sre the 2 biggest racial hypocritical whores.

4th, the aggreived party forgave him, why cant we?

5th, imus has FULLY BACKED the ungrateful Harold ford and has taken care of black /african-american kids with cancer at his ranch....and now the pc police label him a racist?!?!
is that fair???....i await your respone.


hope that helps.

First, I do not think Imus said what he said in jest. I think he said it out of malace. However, even if he did say it in jest he was definitely wrong to say it about the Rutgers women's basketball team. Second, many black people have gone after gangsta rap; however the mainstream media does not seem to care about showing African-Americans protesting rap music. However, many people like C. Dolores Tucker have come out against rap music. Third, it does not matter who his accusers were; it matters what he said. No matter what some people want to say, Imus said something that was wrong about a group of people who did not deserve his comments. In addition Imus did not have only two accusers; he had many. There were a number of people from all walks of life that wrote letters to MSNBC and CBS asking for Imus to be fired. Fourth, it was never about forgiving Imus. People had no problem with forgiving Imus; they just wanted there to be a punishment for what he did. When people do something wrong they usually have to face a penalty. In addition, this was not the first time Imus had insulted African-Americans, apologized, and then did the same thing again. I think many people just got tired of hearing Imus apologize and then do the same thing again. Finally, Imus's work out of the studio does not have an effect of what he did in the studio. President Bush gives to charities each and every year so I guess Imus was wrong to call for Bush's impeachment. In addition, I guess all the family members of soldiers lost in Iraq should just forgive Bush and move on without pushing for him to be impeached. What if all the people hurt by Bush forgive him? Is there than no reason to impeach him? There are many people who do bad things and then give to charity. That does not mean they should not face a penalty. Imus did something wrong and he should have been punished for what he did.

as you can discern below, these good "white folk" are just gathering for a social or some other esteemed event. :puke:



That comment and others that Imus consistently spewed was spoken like picture perfect examples of true, albeit covert RACISM and SEXISM. It's sad Imus remained on the air as long as he did. We can thank the political elite (Kerry, Dodd, Gregory, etc.). BTW Harold Ford, one each, DLC, being a member of the political elite, is no longer considered "black" by people such as Imus. For the political elite all bow to only ONE COLOR = GREEN. :grr:

When have "humor purposes" ever been a shield from being fired from the public airwaves? and what make Imus immune? Hell, Mae West flirted with Charlie McCarthy on the Chase & Sanborn Hour in 1937 and was banned from NBC until, what, around the 50s? Nothing malicious about that. Of course, we're in the world of the Morning Zoo these days.

I'm sure Greaseman meant no harm either when he criticized a Lauryn Hill record by joking innocently that no wonder that blacks get dragged behind trucks but it got him fired. Nor did Miss Jones and her Hot 97 crew when they made that Tsunami Parody Song, though a travesty she remains on the air (and I don't know the level of her syndication, far as I know, she's isolated to the NY market), several staff members lost their jobs including one of the producers. And there are many examples when drive-time jokers lost their mic because they went too far

My point is what anoints Imus to such a degree that he should be given special dispensation?

Why did Kerry defend him?

I don't know what was more sad, having to listen to that show waiting to hear what John Kerry had to say or John Kerry having to prostrate himself because it being one of the few places he could get air time :shrug:

Oh and Kerry is a regular guest on his show.

make sense.

will America stop defending her racist bastards,I bet some of those girls(ladies) have relatives or friends,fighting that racist war in Iraq?,what kind of signal does that send to the troops?,fuck Imas and his defenders.

i'd like to hear kerry's comments about the death threats received by sharpton and the rutgers' women's basketball team.
i have no problem with imus' firing, however, i do wish these incidents were treated as learning experiences. i agree with someone else...it would be great if the forced him to hire a black woman as co-anchor.

:eyes:

sure there is freedom of speech, but imus should have the same freedom that any joe redneck has to spout hate around the water cooler, he should not be allowed to spout hate on the public airwaves

It's just that this story got traction during what was pretty much a slow news week.