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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:09 PM
Original message
Election audit finds mistakes aplenty
Source: Associated Press

CLEVELAND — Computer vote-memory card totals failed to match electronic voting machine ballot tallies in more than one quarter of the samples checked from the November election in the state’s most populous county, an independent audit showed Thursday.
In the 37 sample precincts where results didn’t match, there may have been corrupted memory cards, missing or torn reports, faulty printers or other problems, according to the independent audit commissioned by the Cuyahoga County elections board.

***


The audit was conducted by 40 volunteers under the direction of Cleveland State University’s Center for Election Integrity. The governor and a U.S. senator were chosen in the November election.
Three of four county elections board members have quit, and the resignation of chairman Bob Bennett, also the Ohio Republican chairman, will become effective May 1. Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner, a Democrat, demanded the resignations over problems including the conviction of two board employees for rigging a sample recount to avoid a more through review.


** a little more**

Read more: http://www.chroniclet.com/2007/04/20/election-audit-finds-mistakes-aplenty/
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Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Did the results favor any particular party?
Will we ever know?

Bill
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DWilliamsamh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. That's what I was wondering (N/T)
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R. (nt)
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. k and r
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. What was the nature of the paper records?
Were they produced by the voting machines, were they tallies kept by the people behind the desk (we always did), or were they derived from the voter register? (Or, of course, some other source.)

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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Why wasn't Rove worried
about irregularities all over Ohio?

Huh.
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Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R!!
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. More from the NYT
The time for editing my original post has lapsed:

Audit Finds Many Faults in Cleveland’s ’06 Voting


In a state that was pivotal to President Bush’s election and re-election, Cuyahoga County, which includes Cleveland, has seen more than its share of recent election troubles. Lines at polls there were hours long in the 2004 general election. And in the primaries last May, the county’s first experience with electronic voting, poll workers were absent or poorly trained, computer cards on which votes had been recorded were lost, and one polling place opened hours late.


The audit committee was allowed only a limited review of the data collected by Diebold. The panel tried to gain access to the raw data, but Diebold claimed that the information was proprietary.


Barbara Simons, a former I.B.M. researcher and past president of the Association for Computing Machinery, said: “There is no excuse for Diebold’s having used such an insecure and unreliable database. There were far more reliable databases available over 20 years ago.”
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. k
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kimmylavin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. WHAT?
"but Diebold claimed that the information was proprietary"

WHAT?
Since when are election results, requested by an independent review panel, the proprietary property of a company?
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kiteinthewind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. That would be, since our elections were taken over by those companies.
Return to hand counted paper ballots!! We have to return elections to We the People!
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David K. Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. It's worthless...
The audit doesn’t prove but a narrow aspect of the integrity questions surrounding electronic voting. It is to be expected that the memory card would faithfully record the supposed vote strokes. Big deal.

The audit does not speak to whether the proprietary code and logic and algorithms manipulated a voter’s actual choice. The audit is worthless in this respect.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. and they just hired Michael Vu to run elections in san diego, yep, the same Michael Vu.
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Well, I'm speechless
And that rarely happens.

It is a cancer on the nation.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-20-07 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. So they say their software is propietary..well just get rid of the
damn things and get the taxpayers money back!
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-21-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. There should not be proprietary software used in elections.
Not after this. All open-source code with a bipartisan commission overseeing elections in each state, with technically knowledgeable people running the actual operation of the election system, not some juicy political patronage job given to someone who wouldn't know shit from shineola about information technology.


And if and when enough voting irregularities are found that alone should be enough reason to overturn the '04 election and remove the chimp and his minions from office. Declare all legislation passed during this time null and void, along with all appointments approved by the WH. Furthermore, the part complicit in such acts of voter fraud needs to be barred from holding office for a period time.

Make voter fraud hurt and hurt bad.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-21-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I can't go for ANY form of voting w/o paper to back it up...
The whole thing about Diebold and the others is that they can do anything they want, and not be called to account...That goes against everything democracy stands for.

Like I said, send the machines back and get the taxpayer money back. Hit 'em where it hurts them, in the bottom line. Take from them what they made on these diabolical devices.

If discrepencies are found, especially above and beyond what traditional voting methods have seen, arrest and charge them w/voter fraud, conspiracy, treason or anything else that can bring jail time sentences.

Do I see this happening in the future...I wouldn't bet on it, but there just might be a congress-critter w/a spine out there...:)
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-21-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Use the receipt method
Have the electronic machines but when you vote, they give you a receipt of your vote which is then placed in a lockbox. If there's a dispute, the lockbox can then be opened and the paper records can be verified. Gives you the speed of electronic machines but a difficult-to-corrupt paper trail if there's a dispute. Best of both words.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-21-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. That's what I was pushing for after the last fiasco when these
things first came out...BIG screamfest about cost, but some guy in GA came up w/a way to put a printer on every machine for about $9 a pop. Then the Co's screamed about other "problems" w/that. One would have to be a complete moran to not see where this would go...:eyes: But it was the companies that demanded this, and congrss gave it to them. W/the D's in charge, ther could be a change, but I'm not gonna put a bet on that either...:(
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-21-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Sounds about right
You can pick up a commercial printer for about £20 these days so the kind of machine they use for credit card receipts would be even cheaper.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-21-07 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Why put them in a "lockbox"? Why not count them?
That way, we know for sure.

Speed should NOT be a consideration, when the integrity of our elections is at issue. But just to put some perspective on this, electronic voting machines have been causing major fuckups in elections, including many delays at opening precincts, breakdowns of machines, long lines and other problems. Give me some white-haired little old ladies with fast fingers any day! In Canada, it's all paper ballot and hand-counting and they do it in one day.

And what would you rather have--delayed results, or George Bush as President? Personally, I'd gladly wait a week, even a month--if that were necessary--to NOT have that bastard and his cronies in power.

Venezuela has electronic voting, but they use open source code--anyone may review the programming code by which the votes are tabulated--and they handcount FIFTY-FIVE PERCENT of the ballots, as a check against machine fraud. Venezuela has the most highly monitored and honest elections on planet earth. That's why they have an advocate of the people for president, and a majority of progressives in the National Assembly. That's why some of the oil revenues are going to education, land reform, medical care, small business loans and other helps for the poor, rather than lining the pockets of the rich. That's why Bolivarian ideas of Latin American self-determination and regional cooperation are catching fire throughput the continent. Because of transparent elections!

Receipts don't help if they go into a "lockbox" to gather dust. In fact, receipts don't even help in a recount--if anyone should have the money and legal assistance to get one (it's been made very difficult). The paper record must be a PAPER BALLOT, with legal standing against the electronic results. Further, why were these systems put in place with NO audit (automatic recount) in many states, and a lousy stinking 1% audit in the best states? How can this have happened? No re-countability? And no or greatly inadequate audits? Are our party leaders nuts? Also, these corporations--Diebold, ES&S--are not neutral parties. Both of them have strong, direct connections to the Bush Junta and far rightwing causes. And they let THEM count all our votes under a veil of corporate secrecy? Do our party leaders have their heads up their asses? This is just mind-boggling.

These electronic systems should NEVER have been put in place without a ONE HUNDRED PERCENT paper ballot audit, at least for the first few elections. And after that, something like Venezuela's 55%.

Receipts in a lockbox is not going to put things right. Nor is the lousy 2% audit that this Diebold/ES&S-shaped Democratic Congress is now proposing--while leaving the "trade secret," proprietary code in place, and permitting these RIGHTWING BUSHITE corporations to continue running our elections. Here's what we need:

1. We need to know what happened. How did this rightwing-controlled electronic voting coup happen in the first place? What were Christopher Dodd's and Terry McAuliffe's roles in it? What were Tom Delay's, Bob Ney's and Abramoff's roles? The "Help America Vote for Bush Act" of 2002 was passing over felon Bob Ney's desk at the same time as the Indian casino bribes. This needs investigating. Who is collusive with the Bushites? Who is corrupt, and in what ways? And is it mere venal corruption (--that $3.9 billion e-voting boondoggle trickling through everyone's fingers), or worse--collusion to keep Bush/Cheney in office and create a phony endorsement for the Iraq War? And what part has been played--and is being played--by fear? I know in California that some of our state Dem legislators were strongarmed into shutting up, when Diebold shills went after our honest Sec of State, Kevin Shelley, and drove him from office. (He had sued Diebold for the lies they told about the security of their machines, decertified their touchscreens and demanded to see their source code, six months prior to the 2004 election.) This needs to be cleared up. It really does. Because Democratic Party leaders are in truth one of the biggest obstacle to reform.

2. We need COMPLETELY TRANSPARENT VOTE COUNTING. Vote counting that everyone can see and understand. And since we cannot dislodge the vast corruption that Diebold/ES&S and their Bushite cabalists have inflicted on our election system, with these extremely expensive systems and all the filthy lobbying that went with it, we need a PAPER BALLOT backup for every vote, and a 100% handcount. We can't get rid of these machines before '08, but, by God, we can demand that they COUNT the goddamned votes, and post the results, BEFORE any electronics are involved. This is what we should be insisting upon. And we need to be insisting upon it at the local/state level, because the Democrats in Congress are NOT fixing this. At best--at best!--they are going to mandate some kind of "paper trail"--whether a real ballot or not, is up in the air--and put 98% of that "paper trail" into a "lockbox," never to be seen again. If we want to restore election integrity, we have to do it ourselves, through pressure on local officials.

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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-21-07 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
17. Audit: Cuyahoga unofficial results show some absentees deleted
Another update from WCKY:

CLEVELAND (AP) -- An audit of unofficial vote counts from the November election in Cuyahoga County showed that votes on some absentee ballots were deleted and some were counted twice.

The auditing committee, however, could not determine whether the final election results were inaccurate in the state's most populous county.


She says the audit also raised concerns about the main computer application used to tabulate votes.


Mark Radke, spokesman for voting machine manufacturer Diebold Elections Systems, said the concerns were unfounded.


What's telling about this story is that so many people voted absentee to avoid touch screen voting.

Imagine what Ohio's vote would have been if it were honest. All this and the Republicans still lost most state wide offices. Prior to this election Rove was ready to announce why polling doesn't matter, I bet he was surprised to learn that in a landslide exceptional methods must be used to fix the vote.

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trudyco Donating Member (975 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-21-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. So can absentee votes be tallied by precinct?
What I'm wondering since it is still inconclusive that it effected the elections, if they can tally absentee votes by precinct couldn't the group go back to the people who voted and see if they were willing to sign a statement of who they voted for? Absentee ballots are not secret because the person signed the back of the envelope, right?

So why not get signed statements from people and see if that matches the official count.

Really nobody will know anything conclusively until you take a small sample somehow and get signed statements from people on who they voted for in that election, then compare it with the vote tally. Maybe do a vote-by-mail replay of that segment in the election and a signed affidavit that the person voting in the replay is voting the same way they did in the real election.

This electronic voting with no paper ballot is so much BS.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-21-07 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
18. When do we inaugurate president Kerry?
Edited on Sat Apr-21-07 11:46 AM by Gregorian
Is that being to naive. Yes. I suppose it is.

edit- too :)

edit- Bush is vermin :(
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-21-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. It's the audit of November 2006 election.
Not that I don't LOVE they way you think, of course.

Bush is vermin. :(
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