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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 01:35 PM
Original message
US: Another Chemical Emerges in Pet Food Case
Source: New York Times

A second industrial chemical that regulators have found in contaminated pet food in the United States may have also been intentionally added to animal feed by producers seeking larger profits, according to interviews with chemical industry officials here.

Three Chinese chemical makers said that producers of animal feed often purchase or seek to purchase a chemical called cyanuric acid from their factories to blend into animal feed. Chemical producers said that it was common knowledge that for years cyanuric acid was used in animal and fish feed in China. In the United States, cyanuric acid is often used as a disinfectant in swimming pools.

Two of the chemical makers said feed producers here used it because it was high in nitrogen, enabling feed producers to artificially increase the protein reading of the feed. "Cyanuric acid scrap can be added to animal feed," said Yu Luwei, general manager of Juancheng Ouya Chemical Company in Shandong Province. "I sell it to fish meal manufacturers and fish farmers. It an also be added to feed for other animals."

The revelation is interesting not just because it is another indication that Chinese animal feed producers were intentionally doctoring the ingredients they sold but because the practice of using cyanuric acid may provide clues as to why the pet food in the United States became so poisonous. American regulators already suspect that Chinese companies mixed an industrial chemical called melamine into animal feed because it is high in nitrogen and can be used to artificially bolster protein levels.

Read more: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=14467



How much Chinese "protein" has been going into you and your pets?
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dsweet Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Little Nitpick
Cyanuric Acid is not used as a sanitizer, that's what Chlorine is for. Cyanuric acid, also known as "Stabilizer" greatly reduces the rate at which chlorine in the pool is broken down by ultraviolet light. Interestingly, to test for Cyanuric acid, one adds Melamine (that other Chinese adulterant) into a sample of pool water. The melamine and cyanuric acid form a white precipitate that allows you to gauge the concentration of the acid in the pool. I wonder about the toxicity of that precipitate.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It seems to precipitate in kidneys as well as pools. n/t
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Interesting.
Now if melamine cyanurate precipitates out of water, why wouldn't it just pass through the gut?
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. It precipitates out in kidneys in crystal form.
This is just a working theory, but it seems to be as good as any put forth so far.

http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=consumer_affairs&id=5262921

Scientists from Canada and the U.S. believe they may have unlocked the mystery. They've learned that melamine combined with another contaminant found in the pet food, cyuranic acid, forms crystals in the kidneys.

"What we've done is experiments that show if you take cat urine and you add melamine to it and cyuranic acid, the crystals will form in the cat urine in a test tube as we're watching them, so it happens within a matter of hours," Wildeman said.

The crystals are suspected of killing the pets. The ASPCA has just seen a case that suggests that's exactly what happened.

"We had one case recently where the cats kidney's were completely obstructed and when we went to surgery to relieve the obstruction there was no normal stone, instead the ureters were completely full of these melamine type crystals," Dr. Louise Murray, from Bergh Memorial Animal Hospital.


You have commented on many threads about this issue. How is it that you are not aware of this?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. Maybe you don't understand the question.
How does it get to the kidneys if it precipitates out of solution?
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. As the theory goes, melamine and cyanuric acid both dissolve into blood.
Then they concentrate in the kidneys causing melamine cyanurate crystals to precipitate.

The precipitation of soluble salts is determined by moles per volume. As the theory goes, in the bloodstream this ratio would be below the solubility-product constant of melamine cyanurate, but when the two substances concentrate in the kidneys, the moles per volume become greater than the solubility-product constant -- causing melamine cyanurate crystals to precipitate.
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DrunkenMaster Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. So PETA was right!
Edited on Wed May-09-07 02:14 PM by DrunkenMaster
When they issued a bulletin calling for further testing!

I doubt any of the posters here at DU who consistently engage in unfounded ad hominem attacks against that group will fess up, though.

"Cornell Scientists Find A Second Contaminant in Pet Food
China Dragging Its Feet, Investigators Complain
April 11, 2007...

PETA's Vice President Bruce Friedrich -- citing laboratory evidence -- urged the FDA to refocus its investigation beyond wheat gluten and consider other possible contaminants in the pet food.

In his letter to Dr. Stephen Sundlof, director of the FDA's Center for Veterinarian Medicine, Friedrich said: "Wheat gluten is used almost exclusively in wet foods. However, the mounting number of complaints of illness and death in cats and dogs who had eaten only dry food strongly suggests that there is a second source of the poisoning, another toxic ingredient."


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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Urea
bet they find it too.
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StarryNite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. Those sons of bitches!
How much longer are we going to import "food" products from China? As consumers we have no way of knowing what in the hell we are buying or if it is even food at all.

Outsourcing is not good for America and neither is bush.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. You got that right! I'm mad as hell about this crap.
What the hell is the government going to do about it?

Not just this...but just think about the list of foods, human and animal, that have turned up contaminated in the past year. Beef, spinach, all sorts of pet foods, chicken, and NOW fish too. And those aren't the ONLY products. Those are just the ones that come to mind.

All in the name of GREED. Pure GREED.

I say Americans should continue the trend to get NEW people in Congress, and throw out the bastards who have allowed this corruption in our country. We can't even EAT without fear now! :thumbsdown:
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I'm hoping there's some kind of march on Washington D.C., protesting outsourcing and the like
I'd like to organize one.
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Vadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I'm with you! Let's picket the FDA, the USDA, the Congress, the
White House, whoever else, the ba*****s! I'm so sick of this shite!

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StarryNite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. You are so right.
I was grocery shopping today and I just kept looking around trying to decide what is the safest thing to eat. Not necessarily the most nutritious but the least likely to do harm. How sad is that? I figure it's a crap shoot at best.
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Buy local. Buy organic.
Always.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. They blackmailed bush during the first days of his installation with the aircraft incident...
There are chinese spys among other spys runing rampant in the us government ever since...

Prove me wrong...

That is my accusation and I'm sticking with it until a thorough housecleaning is done...

And I only have my suspicions and record of embarassing cooincidences over the past 6 years...
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. The melamine and cyanuric acid precipitate out as
Edited on Wed May-09-07 05:58 PM by kestrel91316
melamine cyanurate crystals. That's the crystals they were finding in the kidneys and urine that had everybody mystified. It took a while to figure out the chemistry/toxicology.

While PETA was shrieking about more testing needing to be done and pitching theatrical fits, the work was quietly BEING DONE, and not because PETA demanded it, but because the mystery hadn't yet been solved.

On edit:
http://avma.org/press/releases/070501_petfoodrecall.asp

This is old news - it came out on May 1.
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DrunkenMaster Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. nice job minimizing the fact
Edited on Wed May-09-07 06:01 PM by DrunkenMaster
that PETA was right all along.

I know, I know, "but they euthanize animals!", whine, whine,ad hominem attack, etc. Well, so do Humane Societies and I don't see you shit-talking them.

Admit it, PETA was right. They weren't "shrieking" any more than we are "shrieking" about the damn war. They were right to call for more testing...do you have a source that says these tests were being carried out before PETA made the request and that PETA knew it? Becasue otherwise you're FOS.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Wasn't PETA suggesting something completely different?
than cyanuric acid?
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DrunkenMaster Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
33. they said Vitamin D MIGHT be the cause
but that (again, sigh) further testing was needed.

Every other public group was busy clapping themselves on the back.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. How was it right? The melamine and the acid were found
Edited on Wed May-09-07 06:27 PM by lizzy
in wheat gluten, as I understand it.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. You won't find ME whining that somebody does euthanasia, silly.
I do them as part of my professional responsibilities and do NOT support this No Kill nonsense, which causes sick and unadoptable animals to languish and suffer needlessly.

Talk on the VIN board I was monitoring (it's paid/private/for vets only so I can't link to the quotes) was that there was something ELSE other than melamine in the "gluten" and the toxicologists at various universities and the FDA were hot on its trail long before PETA did its grandstanding, IIRC.

But you're right. I am FOS. I know nothing about this. I'm just the vet who posted info morning, noon, and night here for WEEKS so people would have good, current, fact-based, non-hysterical, scientific information about the recall. I apologize for being a stupid, evil corporate shill and a corrupt veterinarian.

PETA wants us all dead, basically. They want an end to the very existence of our profession, and they would prefer we starve or be put to death for facilitating the exploitation of animals. Just ask Ms. Newkirk and her buddies.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. What work was being done by whom at whose request?
They haven't even tested the 20 million chickens they just released for melamine or cyanuric acid.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven. It is an obvious repeat of the air quality around Ground Zero announcements, the Katrina "response", the Patriot Act, the anthrax "investigation", the "Clear Skies" Act, etc., etc. etc. How can you possibly keep believing that benign federal authorities are quietly protecting us after everything that's happened since the 2000 coup? You might as well believe in the tooth fairy.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. So do you maintain that the INDEPENDENT UNIVERSITY TOXICOLOGISTS
Edited on Wed May-09-07 07:44 PM by kestrel91316
who were studying the problem as the request of the veterinary community did not actually perform any of the analyses that they claimed to? If they and FDA didn't do the testing to solve this mystery, pray tell, who the hell DID????? Oh, that's right, PETA did the work.

If you wish to continue to maintain the nonsensical proposition that EVERY SCIENTIFIC AND MEDICAL AUTHORITY involved in this case is stupid, lazy, ignorant, and contributed nothing to solving the mystery, suit yourself.

I have better things to do than argue with fools who choose to seal their minds shut and promote class hatred. Go ahead and be anti-science just like the fundies. When you finally win your war you can line us all up and shoot us.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. So anti-science = anti-authority?
That type of "scientist" always realizes totalitarianism far too late.
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DrunkenMaster Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. um, no , that is NOT what I said
and that is NOT what the article said either,

PETA was the first group to publicly state the further tests needed to be conducted. They were right. Period.

Nice try.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
26. THANK YOU KESTREL FOR CONSISTENTLY PROVIDING FACT-BASED INFORMATION
Kee-rist I cannot believe the personal sniping and snarking in this thread. Kestrel, you have been a quiet voice of sane information from the beginning.

I have two pets, but I also have human family and have been concerned all along about the likely cross-contamination of human food, so I very much appreciate facts.

Veterinarians and researchers are NOT the enemy -- the godsforsaken Bush croney maladministration is. The federal government is filled with career civil servants who are still struggling mightily to do the jobs they were hired for, despite the politically appointed leadership. University laboratories are independent.

I share your opinion of PETA -- the little good that they do is often overshadowed by their overall hysterical presentation.

Thanks again, Kestrel.

Hekate

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july302001 Donating Member (175 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
35. Thx to Kestrel
I want to add some thanks to Kestrel as well. S/he is doing a good thing providing the science behind what the Chinese cheats are doing in doctoring the pet food.

Certain people refuse to understand science. They come in different varieties, including right-wing and left-wing.

Some are right-wing. They're the ones who ran Galileo off and the ones that want creationism in the schools. DUers are familiar with them and know the enemy when they see 'em.

Some, unfortunately, are left-wing. They're the ones who are attacking Kestrel at this board. Some DUers think these people are allies. They're not. Because of their refusal to understand facts, these people will do more harm to the liberal cause in the long run than any good they might do for the short term.

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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. Melamine and cyanuric acid are related chemicals.
How do they know the melamine is not the reductive amination product of cyanuric acid, or vice versa?
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-09-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. They don't. Futhermore, melamine alone is not as safe as they are pretending.
Edited on Wed May-09-07 07:05 PM by mhatrw
See: http://avma.org/aa/petfoodrecall/melamine_sheep.asp

And: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/protsurv.html

Melamine and additional related contaminants have been found in concentrations of up to 20% in analyzed samples. The MSDS for pure melamine is attached as Attachment B and includes warnings "to avoid breathing dust, avoid contact with eyes, skin and clothing". Chronic exposure may cause cancer or reproductive damage.

The following personal protective equipment is recommended to prevent such exposures:

* a minimum of the half-face, face-sealing respirator (P100) with HEPA filter cartridge (wipe or rinse the respirator facepiece w/o filter cartridge before reuse)
* face sealing goggles (vented goggles will be protective) wipe or rinse before reuse
* disposable suit (remove and bag prior to entering vehicle)
* either disposable shoe covers or wipe/brush shoes prior to entering vehicle
* disposable gloves

Pregnant women should not perform this assignment.

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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. melamine - isn't that the stuff the unbreakable dinnerware is made of?
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. mmm good n/t
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. It's a component of it
The dinnerware is made from urea-melamine resin. Mix urea and melamine together, heat it up...presto! Dinnerware! Perfectly safe to use.
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StarryNite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
27. We attacked Iraq
and they hadn't done a damn thing to us. Yet China is poisoning our food supply and we are still doing business with them. Does that make sense? I don't want us to bomb them but I sure wish we would quit importing things from them. Especially anything that we might put into our mouths or the mouths of our pets. This is f*cking ridiculous!
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. US Finds 1 Mad Cow China Blocked All Beef. China Kills Pets, Taints Human Food - Keep Trading
The FDA *is* testing some things now and continue to find melamine in Chinese imports.

FDA limits Chinese food additive imports 4/30
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/2007-04-30-chinese-imports-usat_N.htm

According to the alert notice posted on the FDA website Friday, the agency has so far taken 750 samples of wheat gluten and products made with wheat gluten and found 330 positive for melamine or melamine combined with another substance. It also found 27 positives out of 85 samples of rice protein concentrate and products made with rice protein concentrate.

All of the samples that tested positive were imported from China.


Cleaning up China's honey
An entrepreneur meets resistance in changing unhealthful practices.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-chinahoney3may03,0,1358132,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines

"The Chinese life is not valuable," Sun said. "All the food is like junk food."


Itchmo Recall Update Thursday
http://www.itchmo.com/read/recall-update-thursday-5_20070510

* FDA warns their own staff about cancer risk when inspecting melamine-tainted foods. Pregnant staff are not allowed to inspect it. Meanwhile, public is assured melamine-tainted foods are safe.

* FDA censored a fifth suspected substance from the inspection list. Most likely benzoguanamine.

* Melamine caused severe illnesses and deaths in sheep in South African study.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-10-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Shallah you said it the Imports must flow let the Poison
come in by the millions
and we get to pay top dollar for the poison

China sucks
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. Benzoguanamine.
Edited on Sat May-12-07 12:49 AM by NYC
Another related chemical. Used for heat setting or something. We should be watching for reports on this.

http://www.chemicalland21.com/industrialchem/functional%20Monomer/BENZOGUANAMINE.htm

Large volume of triazines are used in the manufacture of resin modifiers such as melamine and benzoguanamine. Melamine (1,3,5-Triazine-2,4,6-triamine) is reacted with formaldehyde to from a very durable thermoset resin. Benzoguanamine (2,4-Diamino-6-phenyl-1,3,5-triazine) is used to increase thermoset properties of alkyd, acrylic and formaldehyde resins.

Lots more at link.

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