Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

A world without oil (Running out sooner than predicted)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 09:54 PM
Original message
A world without oil (Running out sooner than predicted)
Source: The Independent

Scientists have criticised a major review of the world's remaining oil reserves, warning that the end of oil is coming sooner than governments and oil companies are prepared to admit.

BP's Statistical Review of World Energy, published yesterday, appears to show that the world still has enough "proven" reserves to provide 40 years of consumption at current rates. The assessment, based on officially reported figures, has once again pushed back the estimate of when the world will run dry.

However, scientists led by the London-based Oil Depletion Analysis Centre, say that global production of oil is set to peak in the next four years before entering a steepening decline which will have massive consequences for the world economy and the way that we live our lives.

According to "peak oil" theory our consumption of oil will catch, then outstrip our discovery of new reserves and we will begin to deplete known reserves.



Read more: http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_tech/article2656034.ece
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Can you imagine how pissed China and
India are going to be, just as they start to gear up for "a car in every driveway". And mega-gigantic use of petroleum.

"Oh Sorry. It's all gone".

Won't they just love that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Imagine how pissed the Middle East is going to be.
No more oil income...but all of those weapons laying around that we sold them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. And at a combined 3.0 billion people...
Hell, they can't even make toothpaste, a Dell computer, or do call center support right... and have no regard for piracy and other laws.

They have little to be angry about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. I am so happy to be moving
to my farm in a teeny tiny community full of people who care for each other. It will not be fun for any of us but at least in that environment we can live if not thrive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Can I come?
(I'd be bringing my wife, 3 kids, 2 dogs, 2 cats, and fish along with me -- o, and my internet connection, and books, and records and cd's. I can leave all the rest behind.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
freethought Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. Key words here "At Current Rates"
I take that as is current rates of consumption stay static, unchanging. My guess is with India and China on the move, petroleum consumption will go up. That being said, that 40 year estimate will likely be compressed into something less.

I have serious doubts that there is anyone in Congress who really has that nads to say to us that certain things are going to have to change. Americans typically don't like to be told that limits are going to have to be implemented and enforced.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brokensymmetry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Think 2011.
Keep in mind, it's rate of flow - and the depletion
curves will start hurting in 2011. Four years...and
then, hang on to your hat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
freethought Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Trust me! I'm hanging on to it! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Yes, because current rates of consumption could NEVER increase!
Pathetic.

:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. Consumption can only go up if supplies go up.
Supplies can go up only as petroleum can be pumped from the groud.

Unforunately, pumps can only do so much without damaging the fields.

Right now, the globe is giving up a little less than it did 2 years ago, because it's becoming harder to pump from many of the older fields, particularly those in Mexico from the Cantarelle field.

Available supplies are likely to decrease year over year, not just suddenly give out 40 years from now.

Google "theoildrum" for a site explaining the situation much better than I can in this post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CANDO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Not to mention prices shooting to the stratosphere.
Start preparing now for a less mobile existence. Buy a good bicycle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. Not just gas prices rising either...
Think of all the stuff made from Oil...

Car(and bicycle) tires

Plastics

Food, some estimates claim that 10 calories worth of oil goes into every 1 calorie of food people consume.

Herbicides, Pesticides, many industrial chemicals etc.

Overall, as time goes on, cost of living will increase, maybe to such an extent most people on the planet cannot afford to live.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. i guess the human race is in for a catastrophic reduction in population
by the end of this century..the party is over.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. Let's hope the overpopulation bomb explosion is ameliorated over time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. Don't ask the Pope for permission to reduce the population
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. "Crude Awakening", a documentary dealing with peak oil,
is opening in Sydney this week, to enthusiastic reviews. Apparently it is to the oil industry what
"An Inconvenient Truth" is to global warming - a frightening wake-up call which politicians and the
oil industry will no doubt try to ignore.

It's on my list. Has anybody seen it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-13-07 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I don't think it's been in the US yet. I hope it will be.
I'll look for it; thanks for letting us know about it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. You can get it on netflix - that's how I saw it for the second time.
The first time was at a film festival. Here's my review:

Update: I saw this last night at AFI Fest in LA.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=266x1907#2221
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
10. kicking -- cause reality intrudes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 04:59 AM
Response to Original message
11. from an e-mail I received
A lot of folks can't understand how we came to have an oil shortage here in our country.

Well, there's a very simple answer:

Nobody bothered to check the oil. We just didn't know we were getting low. The reason for that is purely geographical.

Our OIL is located in ALASKA, California, Coastal Florida, Coastal Louisiana, Kansas, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania and Texas

Our DIPSTICKS are located in Washington , DC !!!!


Any Questions?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Now that was a good one, D!
VERY cute! How's the new job?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. NEW JOB GOING GOOD
old company is being sold to some European outfit, sale final in 90 days from what I've heard

going there this saturday to pull their nuts out of the fire (again) and will probably get more info on the sale - and yes I will be paid for my time...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Attagirl. Give 'em Hell, Harriet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
18. "Proven reserves" could stand a little more proving
Most of the numbers that the IEA, USGS, and others rely on are taken on blind faith from oil producing nations. Between 1987 and 1990, there was a mad rush to increase "proven" reserves figures to up the allowed production volume. There is very little reason to believe that a doubling of discoveries happened anywhere during this time, yet the numbers are reported as gospel by virtually every energy agency planetwide.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. It's very strange that after the sudden jump in reserves in the 80s,
and in spite of very few new major finds, the reserves stay the same, no matter how much extra crude
is being pumped annually.

Not the way I learned arithmetic ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sutz12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Well, if you believe in the "Young Earth" concept...
the Earth is manufacturing oil even as we speak. It's making oil faster than we can pump it. After all, it made all of the oil we've been using in just 6,000 years, so it can make more. No problem. God would never let us run out of oil, would he? :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. I notice there's oil in the Neutral Zone
The Klingon Empire threatens our way of life.

Q'onoS or bust!

:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conspirator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
24. Doesnt the US have a huge reserve stored in the alaska underground? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Not enough to alleviate even the US peak, let alone the world. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #24
41. Negative, we have the strategic reserve...
I believe its stored in some abandoned mine in the Southeast, I forget where, that has about 180 days worth of oil for MILITARY use only, unless the President authorizes some of its release to the market. Clinton did that, I believe, twice.

As far as Alaska, I assume you are talking about ANWR, which has yet to be drilled, and if the development started today, not one drop will be shipped to market until 10 years later. The most optimistic estimates of the amount of reserves in ANWR is enough to last the United States a total of about 300 days, this is assuming its not a dry hole.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
26. I read the BP report.
It was actually pretty interesting. I recommend it. You can get some rather interesting numbers if you combine the BP numbers with things like GDP. For example, for each unit of output (as measured by GDP) one can calculate how many units of energy were consumed. Normalizing the ratio so that for Japan and Germany it is about 1, for the US it is 1.5 (50% more energy per unit economic output), and for China it is 3, and for India it is 3.25.

Also, US consumption of oil, gas, and coal was down while nuclear and (especially) hydroelectric was up in 2006 compared to 2005. Who would have thought it?

Regarding peak oil, when prices hit high enough values it will be economical to convert coal to oil, etc. Oil sands in Canada are already doing big business.

What I would like to see is a lot more nuclear power - no CO2 emission.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Terry in Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. China and India
Interesting what you did, with the energy per unit analysis. Surprised to hear China and India were higher.

Terry
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. China and India...
...have much less efficient economies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. The oil sands probably will only end up giving 2 million barrels per day.
The world uses about 85-86 million barrels of oil per day. It takes a tremendous amount of energy and hydrogen to make the oil sands into something useable, and gives off tremendous amounts of carbon dioxide. The same with coal. Nukes may be able to take over some of the uses of natural gas, but making hydrogen out of water using electricity is not very energy or cost effective.

Right now, that energy source is natural gas, but that will run low, and may effect the ability of U.S. and Canadian citizens to heat their houses.

If we are to use coal, the CO2 still will come off because coal has little H and a lot of C.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. Don't count on the oil sands ramping up much
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x99775

"Alberta Energy Board - Province's Natural Gas Production Peaked In 2001"

http://www.energybulletin.net/3361.html

"Canadian natural gas reserves continue to fall despite record drilling activity"

The natural gas used to refine the oil sands is running out, so unless the build a nuclear reactor or two on the sand range their output will begin to decline within a few years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
graphixtech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
28. Ray McGovern on Peak Oil (behind the scenes) and ME politics
(behind the scenes at KC, Kansas Community College, Intercultural Center.
Videotaped with permission of the local AFSC organizer)

Ray McGovern on Peak Oil (QuickTime, very brief)
http://www.digitalstyledesigns.com/videos/mcgovern6.mov

Ray McGovern discusses politics of being labeled an Anti-Semite after the DSM hearing:
(may take a few minutes to download)
http://www.digitalstyledesigns.com/videos/mcgovern5.mov
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
29. too bad Carter wasn't re-elected..
he had the perfect plan. a Windfall Profits Tax on companies that produced nonrenewable forms of energy. All that revenue would have funded an energy security fund for low income families, public transportation, and billions in R&D for renewable forms of energy.

this was proposed and rejected in the 70's, but think of how much it would have changed things 30 years later!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
31. Forget about PEAK OIL, what we really need to be discussing is pricing and emissions
There are huge levels of unproven resources... sand, shale, and unproven reserves to keep us going for hundreds of years at a certain PRICE.

The other huge problem is what will happen to the planet if we burn all of this...!

It was never about PEAK OIL...

Now, it is about profits and whether or not we choke the planet on CO2
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. It is also about energy returned on energy investment or EROEI.
Making liquid fuel out of oil sands and oil shale takes almost as much energy as the liquid fuel would produce if burned, if not more. Economics is part of the equation, but not all of it.

Unproven reserves are just that: unproven. I'm not going to go about as if they were and count on them to actually go on line.

I suggest you do a little googling on this subject, and you might want to check the site The Oil Drum for a little info on what Peak Oil actually means.

Lots of folks there are real pessimists, but there is some hard info that cannot be ignored.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Some people seem to thing Economics is the only thing that matters, they forget that...
Economics bows down to the laws of physics. If it costs 1.0000001 BTU to extract 1 BTU worth of oil out of the shale or sand, then it will NEVER be worth it, period.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. And isn't it true oil companies are looking to process shale oil more cheaply?
Emissions control is where it's at; I think "peak oil" is more a scare tactic than anything else, but who knows?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. The oil companies have been looking to make shale oil economical for 50 years now....
To be honest, the fact is that it's still more expensive, energy wise, to extract it than what you get out of it in the end. In addition, daily production is quite low compared to conventional reserves. That's the key right there, the world consumes about 83 million barrels of oil a day, all oil reserves produce just a fraction above that per day, and can't increase it on the whim. Oil shale and sand fields have atrociously low production rates, on the order of maybe 2 million barrels a day.

In other words, there could be 1 quadrillion barrels of oil under Canada, as an example, but if you can only extract a maximum of 2 million barrels per day, that means only a fraction of the world can ever use that oil, and it simply wouldn't be worth the cost to extract it. Same could be said for many deep sea oil reserves, or possible deep crust oil reserves, which may or may not exist.

Peak Oil isn't about total reserves, though its related, its more about daily production. We are never going to run out of oil, but it will end up being useless to us to keep pumping it out of the ground. Once a reserve reaches half empty, daily production of that reserve starts decreasing, once at least half of all total reserves hit that point, we hit peak oil, that year will be the BEST year for oil production in the world, the highest production year yet, and then it starts going downhill from there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
38. Business Week: From Peak Oil To Dark Age?
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_26/b4040074.htm?chan=rss_topStories_ssi_5">From Peak Oil To Dark Age?

With global oil production virtually stalled in recent years, controversial predictions that the world is fast approaching maximum petroleum output are looking a bit less controversial. At first blush, those concerned about global warming should be delighted. After all, what better way to prod the move toward carbon-free, climate-friendly alternative energy?

But climate change activists have nothing to cheer about. The U.S. is completely unprepared for peak oil, as it's called, and the wrenching adjustments it would entail could easily accelerate global warming as nations turn to coal. Moreover, regardless of the implications for climate change, peak oil represents a mortal threat to the U.S. economy.

Peak oil refers to the point at which world oil production plateaus before beginning to decline as depletion of the world's remaining reserves offsets ever-increased drilling. Some experts argue that we're already there, and that we won't exceed by much the daily production high of 84.5 million barrels first reached in 2005. If so, global production will bump along near these levels for years before beginning an inexorable decline.

What would that mean? Alternatives are still a decade away from meeting incremental demand for oil. With nothing to fill the gap, global economic growth would slow, stop, and then reverse; international tensions would soar as nations seek access to diminishing supplies, enriching autocratic rulers in unstable oil states; and, unless other sources of energy could be ramped up with extreme haste, the world could plunge into a new Dark Age. Even as faltering economies burned less oil, carbon loading of the atmosphere might accelerate as countries turn to vastly dirtier coal.

-snip-



This BusinessWeek piece marks perhaps the first time a serious mention of "peak oil" has been published in mainstream US news source. A lessor mainstream publication, The Independent (London), featured an article addressing peak oil two days prior and would be considered by some to be the first mainstream media outlet to broach the controversial subject. But, by sheer volume of circulation and reputation, BusinessWeek finishes first in beginning to raise public awareness of the issue and this by a noted business and investment news source.

Regardless of who is first in raising awareness of peak oil, there is sure to be more news forthcoming on this very real and very serious problem.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC