Ironing out policies on school uniforms

Source: usatoday




Ironing out policies on school uniforms
Updated 8h 10m ago
By Carol Motsinger, USA TODAY

As the new school year approaches, more schools are requiring students to wear uniforms or otherwise restricting what they may wear — and parents are objecting.

Their complaint: The policies trample students' right of expression and parents' right to raise children without government interference, says Vickie Crager, founder of Asserting Parental Rights — it's Our Duty, a parents rights group that opposes school uniforms.

..............
About one in four public elementary schools and one in eight public middle and high schools in the USA have policies dictating what a student wears to school, says David Brunsma, a sociologist who wrote Uniforms in Public Schools: A Decade of Research and Debate in 2005.

Private schools first imported the British tradition of student uniforms to mark a student's social status, Brunsma says. Urban public schools began to adopt uniforms in the late 1980s to reduce social pressure from fashion-savvy students.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-08-05-uniforms-protest_N.htm?csp=1

Groan

Who wants to bet that "Asserting Parental Rights - it's Our Duty" is funded by like of "The Gap" and "Abercrombie and Fitch" plus whoever else sells clothes at the mall.

There is a huge issue affecting non affluent parents. There kids are under tremendous social pressure to spend money they do not have on clothes they cannot afford. Even so called "school wear" is not sufficient as it simply means kids have to choose certain colors from the Gap and Abercrombie and Fitch.

The conservatives are always going gaga about private school education. You want to find one issue that private schools are almost universal about ... SCHOOL UNIFORMS. As in ... here is the catalog, order your clothes. If it doesn't have the school logo on it, you're kid cannot wear it to school.

Uniforms are not a panacea. They will not solve the problems of school violence or academic delinquency. However, they do alleviate one issue that students have to worry about, whether they will be taunted based on what they are wearing. Students save time and mental bandwidth on having to plan what they are going to wear. It's already been planned for them.

If uniforms had been available when my three girls went to school, they would have had my vote. If everyone is wearing the same things, it would take longer to label someone a nerd or a dweeb. You might have to really get to know them before labeling them.

was force my mother and father to buy overpriced polyester clothes from the one place the school made a deal with rather than making them (yes, I wore hand-made clothes - grandma was a seamstress for the Ideal toy company). The insults and jibes I dealt with were not curbed one whit because of our identical clothing. The fat geeky kid will not be insulted or taunted any less because of this policy. And unless there is real competition for the uniforms, they will not help any family save money.

I *hate hate hate* cheesy polyester. I can not for the life of me figure out what kind of sadistic impulse compels humans to manufacture such horrid abrasive fabrics with the intent that they touch the skin of another human being. Hot, itchy, scratchy, and just plain feels gross (and often stinks to boot.) I'm wierd about stuff like that I guess...but I never liked the idea of anyone dictating to me what will touch my body. And I was one who got picked on constantly in school.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

and uniforms suck utterly.

New micro-fiber polyester feels more like silk to the touch.

I can't see how anyone could possibly compare the price of a $20 pair of catalog pants to a $100 pair of jeans.

So long as you can get two vendors to produce a "standard" product, there should not be an issue. Those of us who fretted over wearing the "right thing" every morning know what a pain in the ass that is. What's even more horrible is when you're poor and you simply cannot have the "right" thing so you are in an underclass.

I think the stores are behind it so they can sell more of their ugly ass clothes to people that can't afford it. I think uniforms are a good idea makes everyone more equal, saves money and doesn't tramatize kids who can't afford all the lastest fashions.

ACLU, Founding Fathers...

What a bunch of assholes.

:eyes:

They're told what's cool by the corporation.

They're protected for their own good by the state.

Not really sure what the students will do with all their extra "time and mental bandwidth" since more and more of their lives are planned for them. I'm sure it'll be planned out for them though.

It reminds me of the Wendy's commercial from the '80s that was supposed to be set in Soviet Russia or something.

"Swimwear..."

"Nightwear..."

"Schoolwear..."

Anyone remember what I'm talking about?

Look at the article again. It says school uniforms were established to "mark a student's social status." It wasn't to make people equal, but to make them less equal.

School uniforms are fascist.

It was a stupid choice of words as anyone who has ever witnessed a flock of adolescents realizes that they unwittingly mark themselves.

The issue is the inter-social status. The uniform effectively says, you're all the same group.

No doubt students will ALWAYS find a way to differentiate themselves. However, the uniforms makes things simpler for the students despite their protests. Wherever you draw the line, students will try to cross it. So you might as well draw it an an ideal. If you fight shirts that are not tucked in, then you will never have to battle exposed midriffs.

Students are in school to enhance their minds. They're not there to improve their fashion sense. That will take care of itself.

about their clothes and appearance (first hand experience).

and, to be frank, kids NEED to learn how to deal with being judged by what they wear, because thats done in the adult world too!.

and speaking of non affluent parents, how are they supposed to pay for school uniforms, do you think they are cheap? I bet they are just as expensive as high markup brand name clothes.

hmmm....

This ...
http://www.omega1fashions.com/Boys.html
http://www.landsend.com/cd/index/fp/0,,53346,00.html
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=519513
http://www.buckheaduniforms.com/webcart.php?RCATS=Boy's+Oxford+Shirts&FIRST_TIME=Yes&START=1&DOSEARCH=YES&sortby=DF_ORD

vs this ...
http://www.gap.com/browse/category.do?cid=11486
http://www.abercrombie.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category1_10051_10901_12213_-1_12202
http://www1.macys.com/catalog/index.ognc?CategoryID=20627&PageID=20627*1*24*-1*-1&kw=Casual&LinkType=EverGreen
http://www.manalive.com/store/search/index.jsp?Ntk=all&Nu=P_ProductName&Nty=1&displayKey=P_ProductName&Ntt=&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchall&Np=1&y=0&N=6&x=0&menuCat=1&Ns=P_ListPrice|1


Are you serious??? We're talking about 10-15 for uniform items vs $30-$100 for "fashion items". But we all know darn well that parents can and will get some of their clothes from Wal-Mart.

a) Making the kids who have to "wear Wal-Mart" feel like crap in the "fashion gap".
b) Helping parents by avoiding the pressure from their kids to buy expensive "fashions" in order for their kids to gain social acceptance.
b) Having kids spent so much time dressing rather then preparing for school.

Kids are in school to learn (work), not to recreate. You wear work clothes for work. Specify a uniform. Make it modest and cheap and get on with education.

part of it is LEARNING about how the real world works. and in the real world, you dont have to wear a uniform, and you are JUDGED by your peers based on how you dress.

"b) Having kids spent so much time dressing rather then preparing for school."
- Whats wrong with that, you do do that for work also, don't you?

"b) Helping parents by avoiding the pressure from their kids to buy expensive "fashions" in order for their kids to gain social acceptance."
- Perhaps an important lesson here is that social acceptance is not so important, I learned that in school by not wearing hip clothes too. And trust me there are plenty of social groups for kids who don't wear designer clothes.

a) Making the kids who have to "wear Wal-Mart" feel like crap in the "fashion gap".
- Walk into a walmart and look how many 'hip' kids buy clothes there, more than you think.

You are more than welcome to require your kids to wear a 'uniform' of your own choosing. You want them to wear long slacks and collared clean shirt, you do that, don't force it on everyone else though. (of course kids are more likely to get beat up if they dress like their parents would want them versus wearing 'walmart' clothes).

I could care less what the uniform is. It could be an Oxford Shirt, a Polo or a standard t-shirt for all I care. The point is to get em all wearing the same thing so that dress is not a distraction.

How can a student be mocked for their clothing when everyone else is wearing the same thing? I'm curious how this happens?

My son goes to a public school that requires uniforms. I like the uniform policy, but now the pressure is on to get the latest shoe fad. Last year it was Nike Shox; this year it is Pumas.
We are more bothered by the haircut policy. All boys have to cut their hair above the eyebrow and and ears. Today was haircut day and after letting his hair grow beautifully all summer, it had to be cut.

Just make the shoes uniform as well. Tell the parents they cannot wear spots shoes. Specify a color (black or brown) and that there can be no logos.

I don't like that haircut policy either. The policy should not be gender specific. That imposes the western cultural stereotype that men have cropped hair while women have long hair. There is nothing disruptive about long hair.

plus you are going to want a tennis shoe because school kids do have to walk alot, 99% of those have logos too.

A casual shoe is more then adequate for walking around the confines of a school. Gym shoes are for the GYM!!! Kids change into gym clothes for that, why not change your shoes?

The kids have to wear tennis shoes and it is virtually impossible to find tennis shoes with no logos.
I agree with you on the hair policy. I have a very thoughtful twelve year old. He wants to know why there is a hair policy for the boys and not the girls. It is very hard to explain that the reason is because they consider boys with long hair a distraction. I don't agree with it, but I don't want to see him in detention the first week. Personally, I think that the school has enough other issues they should deal with instead of hair, but they don't take a liking to challenges.

there is variation, you can always make fun of the kids who don't have them hand ironed, or the colors arent as bright.

(Im serious, I have seen it).

We had to buy a minumum of three uniforms each school year, and each set was a minimum of $80 - for this you got a crappy golf shirt, a pair of pants that didn't fit anyone and belt made from the same material as any carrying strap.

Any by thanksgiving the shit was falling apart so mommy writes another check for $240 to the PTA for a recharge.

You could buy the same outfit for $10 at any of the crappy cheap t-shirt stores that litter southern california.

I'm fully in favor of school uniforms. There are too many parents whose kids run the household, & they let their kids wear things completely inappropriate for school, e.g. bare midriffs, super-low-rise jeans, and pants that hang off the rear end.

Kids can express themselves through attire after school & on weekends, much as adults do. Once people get out into the working world, they're expected to dress a certain way. How is this any different?

Dulcinea

mother of 2

Life would be so much easier in the mornings.

"Put on the blue pants or the blue skirt! Not that white shirt, the other white shirt!"

God that would be great.

Oh, well....

the upside--the pants, referred to by me as "Body armour" "bullet proof" "Kevlar lobby" lasted for years, i used to buy a bigger size than she needed, hemmed them and bought her a belt so she got sometimes 3 years worth of wear out of them, the down side was the expense, the shirts had to be ordered and they would only last one year, you needed to buy at least 4 short sleeve and 3 long sleeved ones.

the school my daughter now attends has a dress code, a strictly enforced one and that works well, all shirts must have collars and no jeans until you get to high school.

Jeans are a very functional form of pants, they tend to take a lot of abuse. I can just imagine a bunch of fifth or sixth grade rascals playing football during recess in slacks and collar shirts :rofl:

My school was pretty strict about enforcing its dress code, but our principal was pretty liberal and summed it up with two rules. We couldn't have undies or bra straps showing and we couldn't wear anything advocating cigs, booze, drugs or sex. Anyone violating the first rule got sent home to change and anyone violating the second had to turn their clothing inside out, plus they would hand out detentions on top of that.

Our principal got promoted to a job in the district office last year, and I don't know if the new principal changed those two rules because I just finished my first year of college.

was in school. I went to a private school but they didn't wear uniforms and the competition for the lastest fashions was fierce. It stretched my parents budget thin just to send me and my brother to private school, they sacrificed for that. There wasn't much money left for high fashion fad clothes so I never felt like I fit in.

Me: So, this uniform policy "tramples your right to raise children without government interference"?

Vickie: Yes!

Me: In a PUBLIC school system?

Vickie: Yes!

Me: So, mandatory attendance, the start and end times for school, the tests, the curricula, the activities, the physical buildings, the buses, the food, all of which are dictated by the government, do NOT constitute "government influence," but mandatory uniforms does?

Vickie: Yes!

Me: OK, I'm starting over...

mikey_the_rat

Khaki bottom and white or green top. No logo necessary. A shop in town does make shirts with the logo and they are very inexpensive. I am a teacher and I wear a "uniform" every day. It makes everybody's lives easier. Plus I interpret Khaki to mean brown, so I have some brown pants as well. I am at a public school, and parents can opt out by signing a waiver in the office. Very few do.

but from what I have seen, with many the social pressure to conform eventually wins and the kids wear the uniform

I can't believe anyone on DU, for crying out loud, would actually support MANDATORY uniforms in PUBLIC schools.

I thought this was DU, not Freak Rethuglic.

Funny, I graduated from an inner-city public high school over 15 years ago, where we had NO dress code, and there weren't ANY fights among students!!!

It is not inherently a "Freeper issue."

and to me that violates what it means to be liberal.

Hillary was in favor of uniforms, she advocated them. While I'm not a supporter of Hillary's she is far from being a "freeper". x(

Also, erases the social class thing... those differences can be huge in a place like the UAE.

I went to a private Catholic school from grades 3-6, and I teach elementary school. Yes, everyone wore the same uniform. What happened was that fashion became about shoes (brand and style), socks (how you wore them), hairstyle, hair accessories, jewelry, purses, jackets...even down to what type of folder you carried and what type of stickers you bought for it!

There's no way to regulate absolutely everything that kids use to segregate themselves. Forcing them to be superficially "the same" does not lead to them respecting one another. On the other hand, it can lead to a slippery slope of ever more restrictive regulation, i.e., "Well then, restrict the shoes they can wear...Ban jewelry...," etc. And it's this type of over-regulation that causes many people to cry "fascist" to uniforms -- teaching kids that they are inherently unable to treat one another with respect and must be treated like inmates before they've done anything wrong.

If we want kids to treat one another with respect, we must remember that kids learn by modeling...Treating them like little animals leads to animalistic behavior. As to the problem of social inequality and cliques, schools model a tolerance for this in many ways, by elevating some students over others, accepting bullying behavior from certain students because they're favorites or teacher's kids or smarter. Not to mention the glorification of sports players, even in elementary school.

Schools could do better by "being the change they wish to see in the world."

While I had no particular objections to school uniforms in theory - the ones at my high school were so uncomfortable that I hated them, the school also used them as a pretense for a cash grab because you could only buy them from the PTA at $80 a set and you had to buy atleast three of them.

Only in the first few years of school we didn't have uniforms, after that we had uniforms through UK equivalent to graduation. Every school had it's own colors. Uniforms could be bought from a shop in town. We had a winter uniform and a summer uniform. My God they they were sharp. Our school had the best colors; black blazer, grey pants or skirts, grey sweater or cardigan, white shirt and both girls and boys wore a tie. The tie and school badge on the black blazer was gold, purple, blue and a bit of white. Hot damn, Laker's colors kind of! In summer the girls wore a cotton summer frocks in pale blue and white. Never had to wonder what to wear and I still looked really hot! My sons have been brought up in the US and it was a real pain to dress them so they weren't made fun of for every fucking little thing. In their school I saw girls wearing white spandex pants and you could see every detail of their underwear. My youngest son had to sit behind a girl who was exposing the top of her lacy thong. Shit, and they expect them to learn! Although he did, he learned not to say "Hey Sue, I can see your lacy thong".

I didn't in Primary school and I was so much happier in uniform, primary school was competitive when it came to clothes. School uniform looked smart, I liked wearing it. We had rules for shoes too, trainers not allowed except for gym, no heels for girls. Jewelery was restricted to a watch and studs earrings, no necklaces. The rules for hair were that it was tidy. If it was long it had to be tied back for Games, science, Home Ec and art, it was a safety issue. Long hair for boys was never an issue, not very British. Though boys with pierced ears were allowed to wear studs too.

In the UK many shops like M&S, Tesco, Asda and BHS have general school were because most state schools have a basic uniform that can be bought at competitive low prices. They all have school trousers, shirts and jumpers in the colours that apply to most schools.
British state school uniform has got more casual, girls are allowed to wear trousers, at many schools and have sweatshirts with the school names and logo and many have ties, the items that have be bought at a specialist shop or can be bought at school uniform sales. Physical Ed uniforms are always cheap and nasty though. Middle school was bright yellow with a diagonal stripe on the shirts.
The private and Catholic schools have more distinctive uniforms with blazers with I always wished I had as my school uniform, I loved school blazers.

I remember the joy of not wearing a school uniform when I left too because I was old enough to find my own style and buy my own clothes.