14 U.S. Soldiers Killed in Helicopter Crash in Iraq, Military Says

Source: Associated Press

BAGHDAD (AP) -- A helicopter crashed in northern Iraq on Wednesday, killing all 14 U.S. soldiers aboard, the military said.

The UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter was carrying four crew members and 10 passengers when it went down during a nighttime operation, according to a statement.

The military said initial indications showed the aircraft experienced a mechanical problem and there were no indications of hostile fire, but the cause was still under investigation.

The 14 soldiers killed were assigned to Task Force Lightning, the military said.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Iraq.html

I am so f***ing tired of it

just like vietnam smirked the pretzeldent!

They are trying to minimize the insurgents .Yeah this was an "accident" like all the others.And Pat Tillman was an accident too right.:sarcasm:

I didn't think Blackhawks were designed to carry that many.

what time it is!

"Bush could say the sky is blue, and I wouldn't believe him."

If it weren't so obvious, nobody would be suspicious.

Take a look and satisfy yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinger_missile

I wonder how many other "mechanical failures" can be accounted for by this American-made shoulder-fired missile system?

The explosive projectile "missiles" cost as little as $26,000 each.

The UH-60A, with a crew of three, can lift an entire 11-man fully-equipped infantry squad in most weather conditions.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/uh-60.htm

...then I'll bet my bottom dollar there are some overstressed, high-time turbine engines that have been ingesting way too much brown dust through their compressors. With OPTEMPO as high as it is I have no doubt that required maintenance and inspections are being deferred.

In air assault operations it can move a squad of 11 combat troops with equipment or reposition the 105 mm M102 howitzer with thirty rounds of 105 mm ammunition, and a four-man crew in a single lift.

Alternatively, it can carry 2,600 lb (1,170 kg) of cargo or sling load 9,000 lb (4,050 kg) of cargo.

UH-60A Black Hawk: Original U.S. Army version, carrying a crew of four and up to 11 passengers.

According to the 101st Airborne's Air Assault Manual:

UH-60A:
Crew is three--pilot, copilot and crew chief
With troop seats unfolded for use: personnel capacity in the passenger compartment is 11 (one infantry squad) with equipment
With troop seats folded: personnel capacity in the passenger compartment is 21 (almost two infantry squads) with equipment

The UH-60A had two 1500hp General Electric engines. The newer UH-60L has two 1800hp engines, so it even more capable than the A model.

Fourteen people in a Huey would be a serious overload. In a Blackhawk, it's fine.

and yes saracat it was mechanical problems, the tail rotor, that was our sister brigade here in Hawaii and one of those guys was my friend.........It was a tail rotor that crapped out after a unit extraction. The unit had completed their sniper operations and were exfiling back to base, the Helicopter crashed about 800 meters after takeoff.......It was mechanical, so please put the drama and hyperbole away, I knew some of these guys, it's bad enough they died, don't make it worse by claiming it was some insurgent shootdown that is covered up............. :eyes:

blasting off some critical piece of metal or wiring that kept the chopper airborne.

All crashes are due to mechanical problems, for sure. I can buy that one. I just don't buy Pentagon war propaganda coming from the illegal invasion of Iraq.

Besides, we can't let the iraqi resistance be seen as fighting back against the 'successful' surge, can we?

The bush administration is putting taxpayer money into the pockets of the defense contractors at the price of America's finest young men. I hope Halliburton appreciates the sacrifice we make for their profits.

I'm saddened at the crash. I know many young men (and one young woman) who have been in Iraq and may be back again. Not to sound callous, but how will these numders be used?? Ignored if they maintain it's an accident? Does anyone know?

Meanwhile, I'm building an annotated list of links we cn use to put the report on the Iraq War in perspective come Sept.

Please send useful data links to me: skip@louisiana.edu and I'll add prior to the report.

This is primarily a list of hot links DUers can use to put the "surge" in perspective by giving valuable data on the war, it costs in lives, blood, and treasure for both the Americans as well as the Iraqis and contractors. PLEASE SEND MORE LINKS AND I WILL ADD THEM and periodically repost this document in expand form. It sould be easy to use.

Prelminary important data from http://icasualties.org/oif / (see below).

Deaths: | US/UK | Iraqi

9/06   | 75   | 3539
10/06  | 108 | 1539
11/06  |  76  | 1864
12/06  | 113 | 1752
1/07   |  86  | 1802
2/07   |  84  | 3014
3/07   |  84  | 2977
4/07   | 116  | 1821
5/07   | 129  | 1980
6/07   | 108  | 1345
7/07   |  88  | 1690
8/07   | 53+ | 1194+

(Iraqi deaths are civilians and soldiers.)

NOTE: Whereas American deaths in July declined by nearly 21 from the average of the previous two months (128 & 108), Iraqi deaths increased by almost 20 durning the same month over the average of the previous two months (1,345 & 1,690). That makes the overall death rate pretty level from May to the present.




LIST OF LINKS TO STATISTICS


CAUSUALITY STATS:



Iraq Coalition Casualty Count provided the list at the top of this page and is a great first place to go for reliable data

http://icasualties.org/oif /


It has a number of tables charting such things as numbers of deaths (by time and country) medical evacuations (by service), wounded (by week), and so forth. A Great site for collecting initial stats. It also contains links to fatalities and injuries by state, services, etc., and one to contractor causalities.



Military Deaths in the Conquest of Iraq

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html

Provides two fine graphs showing number of US deaths since March 2003. One is a bar graph giving a month-by-month number of killed. The top one shows the total number of deaths which notes several relevant historical occurrences.



US Causalities in Iraq

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

Provides a table for a month-by-month list of the numbers of US dead and wounded and two bar graphs below it which the some information in visual form. (Herein you can note that some of the summer months have had the fewest causalities. It's probably has hard to kill in 114 degree heat as it is to do anything else.)





OVERALL STATS:


From the Saban Center for Middle East Policy, Brookings' The Iraq Index
http://www.brookings.edu/iraqindex
attempts to provide "a statistical compilation of economic, public opinion, and security data. . . . updated information on various criteria, including crime, telephone and water service, troop fatalities, unemployment, Iraqi security forces, oil production, and coalition troop strength." It has hundreds of graphs in a month-by-month statistical assement of the war in pdf. format which provide very nuanced (and valuable for someone willing to dig) including such things as numbers of Iraqis and foreign nationals kidnapped, reporters killed, deaths from multiple-causality bombs, estimated strength of insurgency, etc. Extremely valuable!


Asia Times on Line's article ("Dispaches from America: Escalation in Iraq by the Numbers") by Tom Engelhardt
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IH15Ak03.html
Provides a list of numbers of troops, attacks, contractors, companies, prisoners, electrical blackouts as well as such things as projected costs, temperatures, availability and cost of water, Iraqi government stats and amount of oil, etc. In short, although is not presented in tables or graphs, it provides data to help determine the total context of the war. A very valuable collection of information that will aid to see the full picture.






STATS ON IRAQI RESOURCES:

The Oxfam Report on Resources Iraqi resources
http://www.oxfam.org.uk/resources/policy/conflict_disasters/bp105_iraq.html
provides a list of list of percentages related to the current conditions for Iraqi citizens concentrating on the availability of food, water, sanatation, shelter and so forth as well as their employment figures.




Thanks to all who have provided links. Please send more. I'll annotate (as above) and add. Think of the value of the following types of information:
# of Iraqi refugees leaving country
# of Iraqi refugees internally displaced
# of IED attacks on American/Coalition Forces
# of Iraqis kidnapped and tortured, found dumped

DU's gratuitous intelligently realizes the value of "numbers for things like reliable electricity, schools and hospitals that an American would recognize as open for business. . . ."

of deaths/month, trying to avoid over-reacting to an up or down month.
see my KIA website below; click "graphs"
Same data as iCasualties US numbers, but with the added calculation
Since I have the data, I can also to other number crunching if you want

I have pointed out a number of times that there are seasonal patterns - eg, comparing July to June and saying deaths are down is erroneous, since there is such a dip each year, and this years is less than previous years. Same for an annual Feb/Mar dip.

And the consensus is that the surge is working. This meme will not be interrupted by evidence to the contrary. I saw Dear Leader speechifying today, and it sounded like he's going to push hard for his successful surge to continue no matter what. In fact, it sounded to me like bush, and his Veterans of Foreign Wars audience who applauded him, believe that the war must be won no matter what. No matter what. If we have to have a draft and drain the treasury, the only thing standing between us and "winning" are those who aren't willing to sacrifice. Well, 14 more families have made the ultimate sacrifice for bush's lies. My heart goes out to them.

I realize you are being sarcastic about MSM and bushco.

The increase in troops on the ground in Baghdad combined with the distribution into the population has brought a reduction in the frequency of violent incidents.

Progress in Al Anbar has nothing to do with the "surge" - we bought off the Sunnit tribesman with weapons and cash and WITHDREW so they turned their attention to the handful of foreign fighters often claimed to be Al Qaeda. They will eventually use those weapons in all-out civil war with Shia.

The oft-stated purpose of the "surge" was to buy time for political progress. There has been none, and will be none as long as we continue to define it on our terms.

Any statistics based on body counts of US or Iraqis that are used to support this boondoggle are both suspect and irrelevant if true. Iis like we ran up to a ruptured levee and stuck a finger in the hole. So we stopped the flow THERE. Now what? stand there forever? nobody is fixing the damned thing and we are on course to lose another ninety people this month.

Of course pundits will scream back and forth and nobody will listen to either side and nothing will be resolved, except the congress will once again be faced with defunding as the only way to force anything. And I have to grudgingly admit that withdrawal DOES need to be carefully planned and skillfully executed, and doing it under duress is not preferable.

Damned stubborn little pinhead. One man. One sociopathic warped little man.

Casualty #3721 matters just as much as #4000, but milestones are a big deal. In any case, the pace indicates that we should expect our 4000th American casualty shortly after Thanksgiving.

sigh.

May they rest in peace.

we need to continue to stress these figures to the unwashed minions who watch Fox news.

As Snow job would say...

Grass Bush

Pile the bodies high in Austerlitz and Waterloo Iraq
Shovel them under and let me work--
I am the grass; bush; I cover all.

And pile them high in Gettyburg Baghdad
And pile them high in Ypres and Vedum Mossoul and Al Fallaujah

Two years, ten years, and passengers ask the conductor:
What place is this?

I am the grass bush.
Let me work.

Carl Sandburg


Support the war - Donate a Son a Daughter
The GOP working for a better America
God Bless America

The Bush Administration would lie when the truth fits the situation better. With them, lying is a kneejerk reaction. If they say it was mechanical problems I'm certain the chopper was brought down by groundfire.

When god asks him why your hands are sooooooo god damn bloody, what will he say?

P.S. that's if you believe in such things...etc. at least we know HE DOES!

I don't recall.

if he had any conern about the destruction he has wrought!

all this death for lies, and a ignorant psychotic fratboy we still have in Washington. Last nite on PBS they showed 18 more pictures of dead soldiers, this regime is murdering our troops.

More SHAME Americans should feel for their ignorant denial of the Bu$hco meat grinder and the harm they have perpetrated on OUR country its people and its laws.

These are OUR Troops and OUR Country and OUR Constitution, NOT HIS!

When The F will the greater majority wake up and demand in unison an end to this debacle these treasonous bastards have shoved down our throats?

to see the light.

who doesn't have the interest in the safety of its Civilians and Troops, Protection of their Liberty, or Integrity of their Nation.

Ignorance IS NOT an excuse anymore!

The kind of mechanical problems caused by shoulder-fired missiles.

I'm tired of hearing these kinds of news reports, I can't imagine how military families must feel.


And today they're burying a 20 year old local who was the first female from SE Texas killed in Iraq. So many lives wasted for a fool's errand.

http://www.kfdm.com/news/block_21907___article.html/southeast_humberson.html

Now she along with her family and friends get to wonder if he was on it.
And if he wasn't then our relief is due to some other families grief .....

Damn this war. And what difference is there between dying because of
mechanical failure or hostile fire?

George's blunder isn't worth any more kids.

Either way you're dead!

http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/abstract.php?rptno=GAO-06-141
-snip-
While the fleet-wide condition of the 30 equipment items GAO selected for review varied, GAO's analysis showed that reported readiness rates declined between fiscal years 1999 and 2004 for most of these items. The decline in readiness, which occurred more markedly in fiscal years 2003 and 2004, generally resulted from (1) the continued high use of equipment to support current operations and (2) maintenance issues caused by the advancing ages and complexity of the systems.
-snip-
http://www.dodig.mil/audit/reports/fy03/03-054.pdf
Historical data from AMCOM engineers showed that approximately
107 Blackhawk helicopters (7 percent of the fleet of 1,531 helicopters) should
have been overhauled each year at approximately $2.7 million for each helicopter.
However, for the 4-year period from FYs 1998 through 2001 the Army
overhauled only 38 helicopters for $104.3 million. If the Army had overhauled
428 Blackhawk helicopters during the same time frame (4 years at 107 helicopters
per year), the Army would have spent approximately $1.2 billion on overhauls.
The low rate of overhaul saved the Army depot-level maintenance funds, but
caused the average age of the Army Blackhawk fleet to increase in age to
17 years. The low rate of overhaul in the past will also force the Army to defer
future overhauls that will not be executable until future years.

support our troops my ass.

Goddamn it.

I am disgusted and distressed that my Nation was sucked into another needless, bloody quagmire in my lifetime.

When will we learn?

I have no problem with justified military action. Invading Iraq was a war of aggression and greed that allowed our true enemies to escape.

Goddamn it and goddamn all the gullible fools in this country who are too stupid to see the truth.

Oh give me a fucking break...

that is our sister Brigade here in Hawaii, the tail rotor struck a berm, the crash occured 800 meters after the pickup........The initial investigation is sounding like the pilot was showing off for the guys after a successful sniper mission........He calculated wrong on a high rise, a manuever where the back dips down and the front shoots straight up........We are hearing a lot more about it here on Schofield Barracks then the average person, but yeah it really was a crash........No bad guys involved......

Think about it. It means that we aren't doing proper maintenance on the equipment that we're ORDERING our troops to use.

Bushco always, ALWAYS puts out the "mechanical failure" explanation for the simple reason that admitting that the chopper was brought down by enemy fire gives gravitas to the insurgents. How could a bunch of dead enders shoot down a mighty chopper from the mighty USA? Ergo, mechanical failure.

They're children, giving childish explanations to a nation of childish cowards who can't abide hearing anything negative about their country, preferring an even-more negative explanation for the disaster, as long as that explanation either demonizes or underestimates our "enemy."

I flew in helicopters there on average of twice a week. I never worried about mechanical failure.

But today I'm pretty sure the maintenance is farmed out to civilian contractors and I don't trust that they do a good job since there is the profit motive involved.

I think i recall one or two being specifically mentions as copter mechanics
I expect the contract maintenance is more for the ground transport stuff - at least i hope

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/22/1421223

Iraqi Red Crescent: Truck Bombing Toll Tops 500
The Iraqi Red Crescent Society is reporting the death toll from last week's massive truck bombing near the Syrian border has topped 500 people and left another 1,500 wounded. Doctors say the death toll could rise even higher because 20 percent of the survivors suffered serious injuries. The double truck bomb was by far the deadliest coordinated attack since the U.S. invasion.

Your eternal war surge is right on track- fourteen more American souls can be chalked up on your tote board!

Attaboy, George!

In case anyone doesn't get it: :sarcasm:

:wtf: Haven't you gotten the new meme? It's the reverse Vietnam scenario. Leaving Iraq will cause Iraq to fall apart and be brutalized, the Khmer Rouge is just waiting to terrorize Baghdad. :wtf:

then I think I can establish a correlation to events that would happen in Vietnam tomorrow, the day after right now, if we pulled out of Iraq today. Not that it would have much relevance or make any sense. But I can establish a definite correlation between those two events. Then all I need is a conservative ideologue on Faux News to back me up, give me the credibility, say with some silly philosophical yardstick to measure the amount of 'freedom' we lost (or won, as the case may be). Either way, it'll seem to be believable, especially if you're desperate enough.

Bu** is actually as stark raving mad as any lunatic you'd ever meet, but as long as he doesn't know it or admit it to himself, I guess he'll continue to be in control.

:cry:

So sorry to hear this - Wonder how many of them joined in order to get a college education? I pray for their families and loved ones. :grouphug:

Iraq is made of fine, abrasive dust. Helicopter transmissions are full of gear oil.

Valve grinding compouund is a mixture of fine, abrasive dust and gear oil, which is specifically made to remove metal.

When you're running a transmission full of valve grinding compound, eventually your helicopter is going to fall out of the sky. There is no option here.

I remember how in awe I was of chopper pilot skill when I was in the Army.

They could fly us through the narrowest canyons in a Blackhawk and it seemed the rotors were almost touching the rocks. At night, little sparks of static electricity glowed off the ends of the rotors. They frequently put us down in the wrong place but, by god, they could fly those machines with such tremendous skill. I was a grunt and I was equally amazed by the skill of the ground-pounders. A good team leader could navigate you miles through the thickest swamp and end up right where you needed to be. I served with many truly outstanding people.

I am sad and angry that my Nation has been led down the wrong path by war profiteering criminals, who care nothing about these troops.

RIP, Troops. :patriot: