Strong words for America, stern warnings for Mexico

Source: Arizona Republic

Chris Hawley
Republic Mexico City Bureau
Sept. 2, 2007 03:40 PM

MEXICO CITY - Mexico's president drew a standing ovation from legislators as he chided Americans for new border fences and their "humiliating treatment" of illegal immigrants during his State of the Union speech on Sunday ...

The speech was Calderón's first State of the Union address since his disputed win in last year's presidential election. Lawmakers from the leftist Democratic Revolutionary Party boycotted the speech, and about 1,500 protesters jeered Calderón outside the National Palace in Mexico City's colonial center ...

Calderón also said he would depart from Mexico's longstanding policy of non-intervention, allowing the country to take a bigger role in world affairs ...

Calderón told Mexicans that the country's oil production was plummeting, and that it will likely run out in nine years if no new fields are found. Mexico is the United States' second-biggest source of foreign oil after Canada ...



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0902stateofunion0903.html

How would he treat people who come to HIS country and do that?

WHAT an arrogant, self-entitled attitude.

NO. People who come here and START RIGHT OUT breaking the laws here do NOT deserve anything BUT to be humiliated. If they don't LIKE being humiliated, how about NOT sneaking in here illegally and breaking our laws? :wtf: do they expect -- to be REWARDED for that? Apparently so.

EDIT: FURTHERMORE, if Mr. Arrogance doesn't LIKE the "humiliating" treatment HIS people get when they sneak into the US illegally, then why doesn't HE get HIS ASS BUSY and provide HIS PEOPLE IN MEXICO with decent jobs THERE so that they don't HAVE to sneak into other countries to get them. It seems to ME that the person MOST GUILTY of "humilating" treatment of HIS PEOPLE is - HIM - since HE won't even do anything to secure his people decent jobs and worker rights in HIS country - FORCING them to have to leave and go elsewhere to get it.

What a parasite. And what a piss-poor EXCUSE for HIM not doing HIS OWN DAMN JOB and instead expecting the US to provide for his people instead what HE ought to be securing for them himself.

WHAT a scuzzbucket.

...those dirty Mexicans.

How dare they claim basic human rights!

If Calderone wants to do something, let him provide basic rights for his own people so they don't want to leave.

Mexican politics. In this case, the story is interesting because the President faces such opposition that he moved the speech from its traditional venue. Some interpretations, of the significance of his complaints about the treatment in the US of Mexican nationals, can be found elsewhere in this thread.

And I have never anywhere even suggested the United States should be arrogant enough to try to solve Mexico's political problems.

We should start moving manufacturing jobs back to this country and cutting the ones over there as economic pressure to MAKE them deal with the problem instead of passing the buck north. We shouldn't be held responsible for the failure of another country's government and economic system to clean up their mess for them.

evidence that the right-winger (Calderon) cheated his way in (sound familiar?).

Boy, that's really the pot calling the kettle black.

We rebelled against the oppressive Mexican government and became a republic. Sort of like 1776 - maybe you have heard of it.

Since 1845 Texas has been a state. We have had close relations with Mexico, but the current wave of illegals is not the same.

Go call someone else's kettle black.

and didn't follow the law.

Why not just admit it?

We rebelled against Mexican oppression. The Mexican government had little use for Texas and had ddifficulty colonizing it with their own people. The Rebellion included a majority of latino Texicans.

We think the US has problems.

Mexico is losing its only source of big money as its oil dries up.

Meanwhile its economy can't provide anywhere close to the jobs that its blooming population demands, and the population goes up exponentially.

Already over 10 % of its entire population is living illegally in its neighbor, and that neighbor is not happy about it.

What's a president supposed to do?

It seems like attacking the birthrate has got to be part of the solution, but then you run into religious problems.

It really is an economic mess.

...of course of you ask bu$hit - breaking laws and treaties is - well, just DANDY! HE does it every day.

under agreements with Mexico and then proceeded to break the agreements and steal the land, or how the entire Southwest, etc. etc.?!1 Is THAT what you all mean by breaking laws?!1

typical "Do as we say, not as we do,' American arrogance.

did.

But I'm not whining about it as if it's somehow shocking or anything.

In fact, crossing a border to feed your children is so much more honorable than provoking a war to steal land, or breaking treaties with the people you already stole land from that I'm not particularly upset that people do it.

If it wasn't African-Americans would still have separate drinking fountains, lunch counters, accommodations, housing and seats on the bus as well as taking literacy tests to vote.

...they're experiencing. It seems to me that's where they OUGHT to be doing it.

while your neighbor beat his wife? Of course not. We can't do the same thing by just allowing the social justice to happen and say "it's not our problem." It's everyone's problem.

...is what gets us into myriad messes - like say - THIS one.

This 'mess' is the result of rich corporations and the governments who aid and abet them. Capitalism, that dead American dream, doesn't care about the colour of your skin or your country of origin, it cares about your ability to sustain growing profit margins. And if you sustain them as a consumer or worker, it doesn't matter.
What matters even less is how it goes about getting the cheapest possible labour. Going in to underdeveloped countries and shattering the economy without providing any sort of stable system to pick up the pieces doesn't matter. Because for ten years, widgets cost .02 cents to make. And now that this OTHER country has opened it's borders, they'll cost .01 cents, so lets shut down and abandon.

What's arrogant about the United States more than any falsified desire to 'help' is the idea that they are somehow above this, while at the same time being the number 1 perpetrator.
And whats depressing is that people react to the scapegoats chosen for them instead of channeling their fury to the true culprits of both their own disadvantage and the disadvantage of humanity everywhere.

..hundreds of thousands of people pouring into there in the next year or two using Canada's social services, healthcare system, using fake IDS, having lots of babies for Canada to support too, and doing cheap labor and putting Canadians out of work.

Think they'd allow that?

I DON'T THINK SO.

OH. and then protesting in YOUR streets if they DIDN'T allow it, about how unfair it is and that Canada OWES us heathcare, social services and jobs.

You know, when people in the US have issues with their gov't/economy/jobs, etc - they PROTEST THEIR GOV'T in US streets - they protest about those issues IN THE US.

When people in MEXICO have issues with their gov't/economy/jobs, etc - what do THEY DO?

They GO TO THE US in DROVES to PROTEST and to demand what THEIR gov't doesn't provide - from ANOTHER country. :wtf:

You don't see US people going to Canada by the hundreds of thousands demanding jobs, worker rights and healthcare
THERE and IF they did, I'm PRETTY SURE that'd be a problem.

BUT THAT is what people expect the US to put up with. NEVERMIND that NO OTHER COUNTRY would allow this.

And you clearly aren't paying attention.
The poorest people in a society are the ones with the LEAST CONTROL over what happens.
If my boss fires me and hires you for less than minimum wage, that is MY BOSSES FAULT. My *BOSS* is the one who decides to put profits first and pay less than a living wage. And I don't hate you for being SO POOR you will accept SO LITTLE MONEY in return for my job.
Because you see, the poorest people have no god damn control.
Your anger is completely misplaced and you refuse to actually address anything that's said, and it makes me wonder. How many people swallow this bullshit scapegoating and are distracted from the real, pressing issues?

"When did breaking the law become a basic human right?"

About the same time that seeking basic human rights became breaking the law...

they have not had to address the problems of poverty and unemployment in their own country because their 'problems' immigrated illegally into this country. They have such a low opinion of those that immigrate to seek a better life for themselves and their families. The bigotry is blatant.

He is voicing the typical arrogant infuriating attitudes of the upper class of Mexico. He might want to reconsider this because as conditions worsen here-those 'problems' will come back to roost and the revolution that they have avoided for these many years will begin. They will fall into violence and anarchy because of the repressive nature of their government and culture.

We are getting a taste of this at the Texas borders. The Mexican government keeps tight gun laws, but at the border-it is very pourous. Guns are getting in though drug and gang groups. It is a powder keg waiting for a spark. They have already had isolated uprisings.

Calderon seems to forget-he won by the slimmest of margins based on a Supreme Court type decision.

Sound familiar? That's how he won--crooked voting machines.
That's why they had months of protests and sit ins in Mexico City.

GO CHILANGOS!

But THEIR government AND ours encourages them instead, to come HERE looking for their rights, jobs, social services, etc. That way, MEXICO doesn't have to provide it. How COnveeeeeeeeeeeenient, eh?

has been that They would enable the US's imperial agenda and they could sent all their unemployment troubles north to us. NAFTA forced Mexico to accept subsidized grain from the USA. Mexican farmers (You know the ones who domesticated corn) could not compete. They moved to town and looked for work. There is none. So out of desperation they head north to pick our crops build our houses and raise our children.

The nasty way the imperious work is that they get us to fight each other while they profit.

By condemning the Mexicans who sneak across the border, you're playing exactly the game that the elites of both the U.S. and Mexico want you to play.

You have more in common with the Mexican "illegals" than you do with the people who hire them or with those whose selfish economic policies force them north.

(It is estimated that most of the U.S. foreign aid to Mexico ends up in the Swiss and Cayman bank accounts of Mexican officials.)

:applause:

Work dried up when transnationals started moving their factories to places where they could pay people $2 a day instead of $4.

"Why don't we plant a mechanic virus and erase the memory of the machines that maintain this capitalist dynasty?
And yes, I recognize the irony that the very system I oppose affords me the luxury of biting the hand that feeds.
But that's exactly why privileged fucks like me should feel obliged to whine and kick and scream
until everyone has everything they need."
Feels appropriate.

prosecuting the people that hire IAs. You know the ones making a profit of their backs. Start throwing those leeches in jail and I bet the IA problem evaporates pretty quick. Don't hold your breath; cheap, scared workers make it very difficult to organize labor into a powerful enough counter balance to capital. The fat cats will never let it happen.

Besides, this crap has been going on a long time, Irish, Chinese, Italians, Mexicans...cheap labor that is too scared to organize during their first generation or so in the country. Attack the real enemy...the elitists.

And we get our oil from Mexico? We should be treating them like royalty. :rofl:

They were designed to control the flow of immigrants coming into the US. We CANNOT support unmitigated numbers of people pouring into this country - to think we CAN is downright ignorant. It's logistically impossible.

Isn't that our complaint?

The laws themselves do not favor the people we need. They just admit a random set of people related to the right people and put limits on people who will contribute to the economy.

They are also impossible to enforce in a country this size. We need more sensible laws so we can enforce them. If we can't, we just give the message that we don't enforce them, and that itself encourages people to come and stay even if they can't get documented.

The immigrants of today are not "supported" any more than our ancestors were when they came.

..when these illegal immigrants with no health insurance go into the ER because they're hurt or sick WE PAY for their care - because THEY cannot.

Now, if these are legal immigrants and properly documented workers, fine! But most of them who end up in the ER sick or injured from working here for dirt-cheap wages and with NO worker protections or they get sick or injured sneaking across the border to GET here - are NOT legal or documented.

The ER HAS to treat them, according to some nurses I know in San Diego and TX - and WHO PAYS? WE DO. The ERs in those areas are FLOODED with them and it's costing a LOT of money. MANY OF THEM HAVE CLOSED DOWN because they can no longer afford to operate.

or the Dr or the clinic. It's called THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

..that the healthcare system in this country is BROKEN?

AND HAVE YOU NOTICED that hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants glombing themselves onto it is making it MUCH WORSE - such that people who ARE HERE legally and US citizens THEMSELVES can't even get care?

Do we need that? NO! Can we sustain it? OBVIOUSLY NOT.

Instead of being angry at Mexicans or whoever, be angry at the corporations who're profiting heavily off of the suffering of everyone.
Think about it.
These people are making money off of your illness. LOTS of money. And they've rigged your whole system so they can make even MORE money off of you, and fuck you if you're poor.
Personally, I find that FAR more enraging than other poor people who need care too.

I think that's a great idea. ALL of them. Eh? Open up YOUR borders and let the entire US and Mexico in. YOU guys can pay for our healthcare too!


WHY NOT? That's what everyone expects the US to do.

If it means you'll stop scapegoating the poor, I'd be happy to take them.

That's the thing, see... I really don't care where people are from or how little money they have. If it overtaxes our system, the system is at fault, because I despise the idea of a world in which we can help but turn our backs, and a world in which I place myself or my needs above others. Fuck that.

..they have laws about who can come there and why and how. IN FACT after bu$Hit was appointed, Canada loudly let it be known that they would NOT let more US citizens into Canada than previously (so they could escape the dictator). Now WHY won't they allow all of the US and Mexico to go live in Canada I wonder?

Maybe you should look into that.

I gave you a ridiculous reply in response to your ridiculous reply which completely ignored what was going on. That's a childs reply. "If you love x so much why don't YOU marry it".
You won't get a serious answer until you pay attention.

the corprats who exploit and profit from their cheap labor
and the lazy, parasitic Mexican gov't that sends it's economic and labor problems to US to solve instead of solving them themselves.
the immigrants who come here thinking they are entitled to the same rights US citizens are after they've broken the law here - and literally pissed on a system they CLAIM to want to be part of. If they want to be part of it then they need to ACT like it instead of thumbing their noses at it, gaming it, then wanting good treatment after that. I don't think so.

an undocumented worker. That goes for any hotel room as well. And absolutely no California wine!!!

...it wasn't undocumented workers. I KNEW people who did hotel janitorial service (apartment complexes and the like) - and MOST of them were NOT illegal. Not the case anymore.

OH and bytheway - they lost their jobs to cheaper labor - illegals. The corprats they worked for - twas their bright idea. NOW it's mostly Mexicans doing the stuff - for less than half the wages.

Who processed it? I suggest you boycott that food.

Because those people who USED to pick it - don't have jobs anymore.

Woody Guthrie wrote about it decades ago:

The crops are all in and the peaches are rottning
The oranges piled in their creosote dumps
They're flying em back to the Mexican border
To pay all their money to wade back again

Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye, Rosalita
Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria
You won't have your names when you ride the big airplane
All they will call you will be "deportees"

My father's own father, he waded that river
They took all the money he made in his life
My brothers and sisters come working the fruit trees,
And they rode the truck till they took down and died

http://www.woodyguthrie.org/Lyrics/Plane_Wreck_At_Los_Gatos.htm

in California. Do you know any U.S. citizens who would work in the fields here?

fleeing the Dust Bowl. And before them, the Italians and Eastern European immigrants.

The growers don't want to hire people who will demand human rights and decent pay. They never have and never will. Welcome to the evil heart of capitalism.

or around 1836. Texas independence.

we have had whole batches of low paid "legal" and "illegal" farm workers since the 19th century, the Chinese, Japanese, Mexicans, Italians, Dust Bowl refugees, Eastern Europeans, of the ones I can remember... and sorry to say, most were treated very poorly...

and for folks that complain about Spanish being spoken in CA, well... this was a Spanish territory... and according to the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo, the state is supposed to be bi-lingual...

There is enough complicity in this whole immigrant issue to go around. The excessive consumerism that drives American culture and the desire of many to get stuff as cheaply as possible only enable the employment of cheap labor.

think about what you would be doing now if you, yes you, had been born very poor in Mexico or Guatemala, etc. with the real possibility of your own family starving unless you can somehow make enough money to feed, shelter and hopefully, even educate the children. Would you have the "cujones" to head north over the border or would you worry about breaking the law(s)?

I wonder...

A lot of our ancestors had to make these same financially driven decisions, fortunately for them immigration "formalities" back then were primarily concerned with the physical health of the new-comers.

A lot of the dynamics behind the impoverishment of the Mexican people are driven by policies benefitting the USA, especially our corporate masters. All of the demonizing, villainizing and marginalizing of so-called "illegal aliens" is a clever wedge tactic to divert legitimate dialogue about solutions, into hatred of the more or less innocent victims of our alienating system.

It saddens me to read and hear otherwise sensitive, caring Americans buy into this facile, negative and pointless bad-mouthing. I believe IMHO that this red-neck behavior indicates that the perpetrator is displaying ignorance and intolerance instead of thinking critically about the whole phenomenon.

by exporting them to another country. That way, they get to keep only the educated and skilled workers, plus SOME of the poorest unskilled laborers to fill the NAFTA factories.

If one realizes what the goal of Mexico is, then one knows what the Mexican President will say before he says it.

If he wanted to make his citizens happy and productive, he wouldn't want them to leave, right? If they were educated and skilled and necessary for Mexico's markets, he'd want them to stay, right?

The bonus is...not only does he get to export those he doesn't want to keep, but they send back to his country foreign money, beefing up his coffers with $$$ his country didn't even earn. Wadda country! Wadda deal! (Mexico's elite are laughing about the foolish Americans all the way to bank.)

...that WE are getting it - right up the a$$ with all this. What you wrote, is EXACTLY what's going on.

And I'd like to add how would Americans who try to sneak into Mexico illegally be treated by his government? Glass houses anyone?

Hook line and sinker.

ours. The automotive industry is just bailing like crazy to take advantage of the cheap labor there along with several other industries.

I did my part - I didn't pass a company's launch activities and have made life miserable for them which is resulting in some good UAW folks in VA still keeping their jobs for a few more months and more if I can manage to flunk them on some other stuff. I am sick and tired of watching jobs go to other countries...now at work, they say they want to go overseas more - could the bloom be going off of MX?

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/032207-hitachi-to-close-hdd-plant.html
"Hitachi Global Storage Technologies plans to close a manufacturing plant in Mexico and lay off around 11% of its 40,000-person global workforce in a bid to shore up its hard disc drive operations. The company expects the moves to save it US$300 million over the next five years through streamlined operations and better efficiency, it said in a statement Thursday." (efficiency = cheaper wages and overhead)

http://www.lamnews.com/as_china_gallops,_mexico_sees_factory_jobs_slip_away.htm
"More and more plants like Gicsa — so-called maquiladoras that are allowed to import components duty free so long as they are assembled for export only — are scaling back operations or closing altogether. In all, 500 of Mexico's 3,700 maquiladoras have shut down since 2001, at a cost of 218,000 jobs, the Mexican government says."

http://www.americanworker.info/?q=node/38
Speaking in Davos, Neil Kearney, the General Secretary of the International Textile, Garment and Leather Workers' Federation (ITGLWF), told ministers and diplomats that it would need a lot of imagination to conclude that the Doha Round was aiding development when one of the most obvious outcomes was the impoverishment of hundreds of thousands of low-paid workers in the poorest countries.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990DEEDB1330F93BA15750C0A9619C8B63&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fSubjects%2fF%2fFactories%20and%20Industrial%20Plants
Gildan Activewear, one of the largest makers of T-shirts in North America, said it would close five plants in Canada, the United States and Mexico and eliminate 1,830 jobs to move production to lower-cost operations in Central America.

And they aren't *YOUR* jobs. American auto workers wouldn't accept the wages or conditions imposed on Mexican or other foreign workers, and nor should they! No one should. However, people who're truly upset about outsourcing would do better to address the horrible conditions of life for the people getting 'their' jobs and the system that allows this sort of debasement, not vilifying countries or people for it.

At least the Mexican people have a leader that supports the population and promotes a better way of life. We, on the other hand, in the United States, have...........

:wtf:

the government, plus they send back $$$$. Kind of a shame the official policy of Mexico is to get rid of its own people.

Msongs

Easier than fixing the damn issues in their country - just shove them off on someone else. And big biness gets dirt cheap labor. It's a win-win!

Except for - The Rest of US.

people from other countries even own land in Mexico.

Mexican troops will be used for the US' wars.

see how far you get, and how "fair" they treat you.

Why is no one picking up on his Oil comments? He is saying in 9 years the second largest field in the world will be dry.

Mexico depends on export oil revenues for around half of government spending. Their oil exports are in decline and will decline more each year. In a little as three or four years Mexico may no longer sell oil. The impacts on the economy will be catastrophic. Revolts and mass immigration will result. It is a disaster about to happen before our eyes. Bob

but was too tired.

Thanks for being "the one". :)

Every time I look around at world events Peak Oil seems to explain an awful lot, but no one in the mainstream talks about it. Trying to keep the sheeple unaware I guess.

The dollar will have to maintain it's value, or we won't be able to buy the amount of oil and gas we are accustomed to.

If the U.S. Dollar starts behaving like a Mexican Peso, we are not going to be able to attract oil and gas tankers to our shores and U.S. citizens are going to be very, very cranky and unemployed.

Behind the fancy clothes and cars, the United States is very much like Mexico.

And how does the dollar maintain any value? Can the US military be the underpinning of the US dollar? If so for how long? How long did the Roman's military keep the Romans in affluence beyond their means? The US is doomed by our economic foolishness and our cowboy mentality which equates to ignorance. I live here but good riddance amerika. Bob

Mexico is the second largest none OPEC exporter of oil to the U.S. behind Canada.

Mexico's Canatrell field is collapsing. It's in a 15% decline yearly.

Unless Mexico can cough up more oil, we are in, as they say, deep shit.

Mexico has just raised it's taxes to make up for the loss of oil revenue from it's oil sector.

Income from Mexicans oil industry makes up 40% of their governments budget.

I am waiting for the day, when Mexico has to start importing oil to provide for their own population. When that happens, the sun will have already set up in the U.S.A.

Strange times are ahead, my friend, very strange times indeed.

Poor b*s* - even his fellow authoritarians don't like him!

Maybe if you would start doing your job and taking care of your own
people they wouldn't feel a desperate need to high-tail it up North. :grr:

How dare you blame others for what is your own responsibility!!!
Fucking Idiot. :argh: