Rangoon: Army Mutiny Reported

Source: The First Post

"Reports from Rangoon suggest soldiers are mutinying. It is unclear the numbers involved. Reports cite heavy shooting in the former Burmese capital.

The organisation Helfen ohne Grenzen (Help without Frontiers) is reporting that "Soldiers from the 66th LID (Light Infantry Divison) have turned their weapons against other government troops and possibly police in North Okkalappa township in Rangoon and are defending the protesters. At present unsure how many soldiers involved."

Military sources in Rangoon are claiming that the regime's number two, General Maung Aye (right), has staged a coup against Than Shwe, and that his troops are now guarding Aung San Suu Kyi's home. A meeting between him and Suu Kyi is expected. Maung Aye is army commander-in-chief and a renowned pragmatist.

Our diplomatic sources are also telling us that Aung San Suu Kyi has been moved to a police academy compound outside Rangoon, where she is expected to meet Maung Aye. As yet, though, we have no independent confirmation of this development"

<snip>

Read more: http://www.newsdeskspecial.co.uk/burma/

I hope these guys are for restoring democracy there.

We don't want the Chinese getting them... do we.

Freedom for Myanmar by all means, but when outside forces are manipulating events to the extent they are here, it usually bodes ill for the local populace.

**********

And please stop calling it Burma... it sounds too much like the former British colony of the same name.

2. I have read that both versions are used there, Burma and Myanmar and when the locals are speaking among them selves, they call it Burma, it was the military strongmen that changed the name.

3. Up until your post, no one on this thread referred to them as Burma.

I'm sure most of the supporters of reform don't give a flying fecal speck about their energy resources... however we don't always have the final say.

When Bush rides into the fray you really have to take a second look.

I support reform. I don't support US/UK sponsored regime change and civil war in order to implement a resource grab.

Not long ago an awful lot of people died in Myanmar in pro-democracy protests and we heard "fecal speck" all about it.

This time round we are having all our buttons pressed. Big time.

I really hope the people there can use it to their own advantage, but I fear the truth is rather that they will be used....

I believe there is a season for all things and possibly this truly is there spring time for real self imposed democracy.

I believe any US/UK sympathetic link will refer to them as Burma, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're behind it or the story is false.

There is a need for democratic reform in Myanmar/Burma.

Myanmar/Burma is currently in the Chinese sphere of influence.

Myanmar/Burma has energy resources that the Chinese were in line to exploit.

The people of Myanmar/Burma have been encouraged to make a bid for freedom. They may succeed - good result for them and good result for anyone who doesn't want China to get that oil.

They may partially succeed leading to civil war.... bad result for them but good result for anyone who doesn't want China to get that oil.

Ergo stirring up trouble in Myanmar/Burma is risky for the people there, but perhaps a risk they are prepared to take.

It is a however a win/win situation for the US/UK.

The next question is what will China do?

We hear about it now, not because of scrub, but because of the advances in technology and the way that dissident groups are using them to get information, esp pictures out to the world.

I live in Asia...please stop trying to make this situation about scrub and focus on the real issue -- An indigenous attempt to bring down amilitary dictatorship.

When Myanmar was Burma.

of Burma called their country Burma. Everyone of them. I am calling it Burma too. Who am I to argue with them.

monks. I guess that was the tipping point, probably among others. Poor Burma. I hope this ends well and soon.

that and a letter sent to Chevron which is on post 45 might been one straw too many.

But we will have to wait and see if Maung Aye is a progressive sort or just a new dictator-type.

I'm trying to take comfort in them guarding Aung San Suu Kyi's home, I'm praying for her safety.

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?storyID=8854

MAUNG AYE
The Burmese junta's ruthless second-in- command has played an often Machiavellian role in his work with the intelligence service. He is renowned as a hard drinker. Like his superior, Maung Aye is chronically sick: he has suffered from prostate cancer since 2003. Where he differs from Than Shwe is in his dealings with the opposition - he would be more inclined to negotiate with Suu Kyi. The vice-chairman of the SPDC is not, however, a liberal voice. Maung Aye has a poor human rights record in his dealings with Burmese ethnic groups. There are also rumours about his connections with illegal drugs in Burma's Golden Triangle during the late 1970s and 80s. Despite his age, 69, and poor health, he is unlikely to pass up the chance to succeed Than Shwe.

and is facing the end of his life, he's becoming more spiritual in his thinking and would like to atone before his death.

Reading all this makes me wish I was there, just as an observer. It would be amazing to watch.

of them, and lets hope that this will be the turning point for Democracy in that country.

This sounds like positive news, but the situation is so volatile. It's especially nervewracking that so little verified information is coming out due to the government cutting off access and internet.

I really appreciate the news being posted here on this crisis, such as this thread.

it is nerve wracking.

The monks are revered in Burma. Orders to attack them had to be the most direct route to encouraging a mutiny. As a Buddhist, I hope that peace soon returns to the area, hopefully under a more compassionate government.

opened fire on our clergy? No doubt it would not sit well here.

They are amoral.

I think our military would rebel at killing their friends and family.

fire on our clergy, that would be the beginning of the end, if not the end of them.

Then Blackwater would find out very quickly that ten thousand personnel does not a modern army make.

Are they stupid enough to not see the potential repercussions...or do you think they were just afraid enough of the masses that they were trying to force the monks to back down?

the military could continue to beat and kill monks; that had to go against everything they've ever been taught. I'll keep all these brave souls in my thoughts for a positive outcome.

:hi:

China, France, Burma ... but not the U.S..

I have no doubt it would happen here.

If the from-the-cradle "I consume, therefore I am" programming could be shortcircuited in a large enough number of people.

See why I'm pessimistic on this subject?

Yes, there were some mild whining coming from Pat Robertson, but nothing serious.

Hey, maybe if Bush had Pat ... never mind.

just as it apparently has over there. Many of the troops are religious and even those that aren't would have a major problem with it.

Think what you want, demonize us as you please, but you are so awfully misinformed about us (the military) it pains me to even respond to you.

Either I'm proven right, or I win (as does the country) by being proven wrong.

I'm not demonizing the military either, just acknowledging the motivational power of a court martial, long jail term, or a firing squad. A few brave souls might cross the line (as they have, at extreme personal and family risk), but unless some radical changes happen in collective human nature, most won't.

I know a few people in the military. To a person, they are people of integrity and great heart. I do not think our military would turn on the people they have sworn to defend. I think if they were asked by the WH to do such a thing, that there would be a coup before the day was out.

Edit to add: I think this may be the only thing that has prevented the * admin from taking over completely and instituting martial law. Thank g*d for our troops!

storm the White House with bayonets mounted (Strictly a fantasy, Agent Mike).

I wonder if it will come to this here.

but not impossible. We've been spoiled to a large degree by our standard of living, and sacrifice as a nation is more a distant memory than a current reality but I believe it's stored in our DNA.

I've been watching Ken Burn's documentary "The War" and after a while of seeing this authentic history on film and listening to that period music and the tragic endless stories of sacrifice, it takes you back in time. Ironically, I believe this shared sacrifice is the prime reason many Americans view that era as our finest hour, we were never more united.

i was surprised that the mostly Buddhist army was sitting idly by while their spiritual leaders were being beaten and carted off to prison. lets hope that they succeed because i doubt the current regime would be very conciliatory.

after the military coup. If so, that would seem a more inauspicious name than Burma.

Personally, I don't care what they call themselves, the UN accepts Myanmar as the name because they view those in power as the representatives of that particular nation and any nation can call it self what it wants.

switched from Myanmar to Burma virtually overnight.

No discussion. no debate.... someone flicked a switch and 'twas so...

Perhaps Myanmar is not the only place that should be pondering democracy.

maybe the majority of people can identify more easily with its old name and that increases its significance and hence sympathy of the world toward their people.

I still call Sri Lanka - Ceylon. Goes back to collecting stamps as kid I guess.

The BBC was calling it Burma back in the 1990s: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/08/98/burma/146254.stm

And they explain why they prefer 'Burma': http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7013943.stm

The 'flick of the switch' was in 1989, when the military government said the country was now to be called Myanmar.

but no other news site seems to have picked this up. The source - "Help Without Frontiers", a Burma refugee aid group, points to this site as their source - http://www.irrawaddy.org/ - but that has exceeded its bandwidth, so it's difficult to check if they're still standing by the story.

when implementing a regime change.

then we wouldn't really have a clue what's going on in the country, then.

The story of the mutiny appears to be disinformation.

Though time will tell.

Sometimes disinformation of this kind is used to try and create doubt etc in the opposition. You know that.

Believe me I am all for democracy, but no-one can look at the coverage of this issue and not see that the coverage is very tightly controlled.

Its not that often we see headlines like "Riot police attack peaceful protesters" !! even though many of us who have been involved in protests know it to have been the case.

http://www.earthrights.org/

Dave O’Reilly
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Chevron Corporation
6001 Bollinger Canyon Rd. San Ramon, CA 94583
cc: Board of Directors

September 27, 2007

Dear Mr. Reilly,

As you know, Chevron Corporation is one of the largest foreign investors in Burma (Myanmar) and the only remaining major U.S. corporation with a significant presence there. As you are also no doubt aware, in recent weeks Burma has seen the largest popular challenge to its military government in 20 years, and the government has begun to crack down on the demonstrators, killing several already. We urgently request that you use your presence in Burma to pressure the military regime to respect human rights, including the rights to freedom of association and freedom of speech, and to refrain from using any further force against peaceful protestors.

In your policy on corporate responsibility you recognize that your presence in the countries in which you operate is not neutral; you clearly state that you condemn human rights abuses; and you clearly state your belief that companies can play a positive role in contributing to the protection and promotion of human rights. If there were ever a time to put this policy into action in Burma, it would be now.

The military government in Burma has resorted to violence against peaceful protestors, including thousands of Buddhist monks, using batons, tear gas, and firing shots into crowds, resulting in at least several deaths and many more injuries. Hundreds of people have been arrested for protesting. The last time that Burma saw major clashes between nonviolent protesters and the military, in 1988, thousands were massacred.

The government of Burma is not only your host, but also your client and your business partner in the Yadana gas pipeline consortium. So long as you remain in Burma, therefore, it is incumbent upon you to use your influence to help prevent mass bloodshed. Please do not stand by as the killing begins again.

Sincerely,
Ka Hsaw Wa
Executive Director

would happen. This is when the real stuff hits the fan. Coup or civil war or massive repression or a fizzle.

Forgive me for being darkly cyncial, but when the US summarily froze the assets of 16 Burmeses officials I was wondering if it was to undercut anyone inclined to a an actual coup against the establishment. We haven't done a damn bit of good for anyone on this this planet since Bush got in so without knowing a single detail I doubt there are doing anything now except propping the regime. Or the money ihas another dark side or other. I just think you can't go wrong betting the bestial WH is playing this to their advantage somehow and it isn't promoting democracy.

..is from southern Burma. He and all of his friends can't reach they're families right now, he is returning home as he is afraid for they're safety. Best wishes to the people of Burma that this oppressive junta government can be overturned quickly, with a minimum of death, and that they can create a democratic state where it's people can live freely and safely.

Which I suspect is their number two goon shunting aside number one for damage control but it is a sign of complete reteat and backdown. That might forestall their complete downfall but it means the revolution has just scored big.

That was fast. I won't speculate anymore about damage control versus REAL change. We'll just see what happens. Maybe they found out the hard way that not only have they violated the Buddhist taboo but they have begun to lose control over the army, a double process of self-defeat that might be irreversible for their brand of tyranny depending on the people.

Oh that we could help them by sending them our thoughts and words of encouragement. If they cannot get news out our good words cannot get in as well.

I saw a video of three men say one word over and over - Democracy, Democracy, Democracy. It appeared to be the one word of english they knew that the video could send out to the world for them.

Her last post yesterday ended with

In the midst of all these chaos, I am very afraid. I am afraid for myself, I am afraid for my family, and I am afraid for the country.


http://www.xanga.com/dawn_1o9

Alive or not, there would be no posting.

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/5817

This one is still "unconfirmed", but it is from military sources. It's going to be difficult to corroborate this for the next day or so as all the international phone lines and internet have physically been disconnected. But the true story will make it's way out soon.

"With acknowledgments to The First Post: http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/"

I agree, totally unsubstantiated. Don't get your hopes up people.

People have to WANT it. Unlike the current situation in Iraq. Peace to Burma.

when they are wrong

its an ageold prophecy that happens over and over again

Brave men fight tyranny

cowards follow and obey dictators

Troops cannot be relied upon to face down their own people. In Romania special fanatical shock troops only loyal to the dictator were grimly taken down by the lesser armed military with the citizens joining them side by side. In most countries, troops as foreign as possible, preferably with grudges against the locals, are imported for suppression. They still have to worry about the reaction of local military, even long term. When you have to use your outward protective military for internal propping of the regime, the regime is de facto weak. Those that define strength by the willingness to use brute force have lost lawful, actual, and stable legitimacy. Some strength. Bullies and clubs versus the majority.

The mind washing strength is likewise fragile and a sign of weakness, dependence on a structure of lies and submission.

Theses "strengths" are all false substitutes for true democratic power which is dissatisfying to central government power gods for all its checks and limits. "Strong" means knowing how to lead and serve the real thing, not making the thing false and malleable to an idiot's whim. Which idiot whim, deadly and mad, is what the elitist models all trend to very very quickly. I suppose humanity in its aggregate, balanced and natural, can be very stupid and impractical as well, but organically it has a better chance of adapting to reality than a limitless power mad few individuals. At least, impatient as activists of any stripe are about the masses, humanity gets what it deserves. Those who would "strongly" save it never get as much play as those who careen into selfish black holes and can be brought down by the "stronger" methods of assassination and lies the just cannot stoop to(at least as easily).

:thumbsup: