Republicans use evidence of progress in Iraq against Democrats in campaigns

Source: New York Daily News

BY KENNETH R. BAZINET
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU

Thursday, November 22nd 2007

WASHINGTON - Republicans are pouncing on new evidence of progress in Iraq to turn the tables on Democrats who believe the unpopular war remains their signature issue for 2008. In Iowa Wednesday, GOP presidential hopeful Mitt Romney seized on lower U.S. casualty reports and signs President Bush's troop surge has worked to attack Barack Obama's criticism of the buildup. "It's fortunate we did not have Barack Obama as President. If he had been President, he'd have just pulled our troops out and Al Qaeda would have been a safe haven in Iraq," Romney charged.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton responded, "If Barack Obama were President, we would never have gone into Iraq in the first place. We would've gone after Osama Bin Laden, finished the job in Afghanistan, and made America a lot safer than it is after seven years of a divisive, failed foreign policy that Mitt apparently wants to continue."

Despite better news from the combat zone, Democrats aren't backing off criticizing a policy a strong majority of Americans still oppose. All three leading Democratic candidates agree that until Iraq has a government that can provide its own security, the long-term effects of a successful troop surge are limited. "Our troops are the best in the world, and if you increase their numbers they are going to make a difference. But the goal of the surge was to create a political solution, and that requires the Iraqis to step up, which unfortunately has not happened," said Clinton spokesman Phil Singer....

The Democrats believe Americans have made up their minds and at this point will not rally around the war in Iraq, even if the U.S. death toll keeps going down. "It took too long, and at what cost?" said P.J. Crowley, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress and a member of Bill Clinton's National Security Council staff. "The President wants to spend $150 billion more on Iraq, but we can't afford $24 billion for children's health care. ... There is more to the war on terror than Iraq. Which is more important, Iraq or Afghanistan? I put my money on Afghanistan, where, last time I checked, Osama Bin Laden is believed to be in the area."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2007/11/22/2007-11-22_republicans_use_evidence_of_progress_in_.html

Thanks to Bush's war, the whole country was opened up to all sorts of terrorists and they have free reign. Why doesn't somebody talk about that?

They will regret claiming successes in Iraq, again.

They never learn, but the People understand.

of Afghanistan.

Just like the extremist Shia control pretty much all of Iraq.

And more US troops have died this year in Iraq than in the previous 4 years.

WOW!!! What "PROGRESS"! :eyes:

PS; FACT: every winter in Iraq has seen a decline in violence. Only to surge again in Spring.

Rightwingnuts; dumbest MFers on the planet.

And I have been to over half of the country (22+ FOBs) and the Tali-ban don't control shit!!!

They crawl out of their coward holes, after we leave like little kids talking trash when we are not around etc...

They do get a few hits, and sadly I have lost 2 friends here, but by no means do they control half of Afghanistan.

When they do show their cowardly faces, we hit them with direct/indirect fire, JDAMs and anything else we have on station.

Nothing like seeing a Infantry Squad moving in while B-1 or F15s flying over the mountains drop munitions on the Tali-ban fighters (bad guys with RPGs and AKs not civilians).

Its good to see all the souls lost in the World Trade center being avenged here.

Do not believe the news BS, don't believe me come and see for yourself.

There are some hot spots, just like every war zone, but we will take care of them soon.

Not trying to start a argument with you Lynn, I just want you and the other people to know the truth.

I see the sitreps here everyday, don't believe the CNN/FOX news BS.

We will win here in Afghanistan as long as the citizens of the US let us win.

Myself and the other vets don't want to come home defeated cause our war is no longer popular.

RLTW!

I personally think soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan should be able to communicate in blogs but I thought it was prohibited unless you first get clearance. Is AR-530-1, April 2007, still in effect and does it apply in this case?

Its not negative and doesnt violate OPSEC, but im told we cannot post info about the war or specific operations.

being in Afghanistan. That's where the taliban and al queda were being protected by the government. Stop listening to Rush and his mouth breathing sycophants about that. The war in Iraq is another story. In fact, the first time you started seeing arguments about the war was when the military and financial resources were diverted from Afghanistan to a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

I have also been reading abou the taliban resurgence in Afghanistan. Is it just the cities that are safe or is it more widespread than that?

Please keep your head down and come home safe to those who love you.

they are better off. :sarcasm: How they have become free and liberated. They might be interested to know.

how many millions spent in treating wounded soldiers -- water shortages all over ira -- no political stablility -- soldiers still being blown by roadside bombs -- the green zone still being mortared -- increased border tensions with turkey -- saudi arabia{our ''allies''} allowing people over the border to act as suicide bombers -- and on and on.

the democrats had better remember -- this was an illegal invasion and occupation with STILL no end in sight.

with these tapeworms -- only a good -- scorched earth -- offensive will work.

make the people understand -- republick party politics are killing -- murdering america.

The dems ought to be able to ram that right up their ass.

Putting meaningless US politics aside,
the only way to get US troops out of Iraq will be determined by the Iraqi's taking back their country with its violent history;

Shiites in S. Iraq Rebuke Tehran


BAGHDAD, Nov. 21 -- More than 300,000 Shiite Muslims from southern Iraq have signed a petition condemning Iran for fomenting violence in Iraq, according to a group of sheiks leading the campaign.

"The Iranians, in fact, have taken over all of south Iraq," said a senior tribal leader from the south who spoke on condition of anonymity because he feared for his life. "Their influence is everywhere."
snip

The petition, which the organizers said was signed by 600 sheiks, calls on the United Nations to send a delegation to investigate what it termed crimes committed by Iran and its proxies in southern Iraq.

"The most painful stab in the back of the Shiites in Iraq by the Iranian regime has been its shameful abuse of Shiite religion to achieve its ominous end," the sheiks said a statement. "The only solution and hopeful prospect for Iraq, and in particular the southern provinces, is the eviction of the Iranian regime from our homeland."
snip

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/21/AR2007112102190.html


US reports ‘phenomenal’ drop in Iraq violence

snip

When you understand you are dealing with the complexity of a counter-insurgency operation which can take years to resolve, to have this dramatic a success in a short period of time, it’s unprecedented,” he said.

The US military says the number of civilian deaths has also fallen 60 per cent since the surge took effect, with a drop of 75 per cent in Baghdad. According to icasualties.org, the average monthly US death toll dropped from 96 for the first half of 2007 to 66 in the past four months. The average monthly death toll for Iraqi civilians and security forces has dropped from 2,157 to 1,223 in the same period.



http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ca653412-97b4-11dc-9e08-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1

We can't just "pull the troops" until Iraqi's let go of the crutch

we never should have talked about the lack of progress or problems in Iraq.

We should have talked about domestic issues and how they are made worse by the war - for example, our growing national debt and the threat with so much of it being held by a country that isn't exactly our friend.

What about infrastructure, what about health care?

We need to be able to tie US involvement in Iraq to our domestic problems.

the lack of electricity, clean water, militias? The fact that violence is down in Iraq has little to do with any of that.

But keep this in mind when things (inevitably) turn bad again in February and March, we have the temerity to notice it, and the (inevitable) yammering starts up from the GOP about how the Democrats are "politicizing" the war.

enemy body count, etc. That war lasted over 10 years, and over a million people lost their lives

We haven't even started in our fiasco in Iraq, and 5 10 years down the road, maybe then people will realize the futility of it

Hopefully, the people are smarter than the politicians this time, and can exert some real influence

About 1,600 Iraqis who fled the violence in their country are returning home every day, according to Abdul Samad Sultan, the country's displacement and migration minister.

The Iraqi government has suggested some of the estimated four million people displaced are heading back because of an improvement in the security situation in recent months.

snip

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/DFA5D3A6-A94D-4760-9584-CD9EC028316C.htm

Yes, if you read between the lines, the al Jazeera article mentioned improvement in security
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_QUQ82kvgI


No Tet offensive.
Maybe it is going on under the radar in Afghanistan at this very moment ?

The issue that is also being ignored is the differences between the Shia and Sunni. In 5 years when were are still in Iraq, and a lot more people are dead what is the reason we are going to give why we went into Iraq in the first place?

Rah Rah Rah......

Look at everyone flocking back to a new safe Iraq

They have no choice..... and you are gleefully perverting the reasons for their return......

Seems Jeff Gannon who is the Whitehouse cheerleader has run amuck again.....

Why didn't you add the links to tell the whole story Jeff?

... and these links are just a few of the stories from the MSM that exist........



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21387023/

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=3830564

http://www.mentalmayhem.net/newswire/2007/10/iraqi-refugees-.html

http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?idarticle=12111

http://us.labs.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2324344920071123

There's about 4 million displaced Iraqis, half of them outside Iraq. If the rate of 1,600 returning per day is accurate, and if this stays constant, it would take 6.85 years for them all to return.

According to Don Oberdorfer in his excellent account of the events in Tet!, at the exact time VC sappers invaded the US Embassy in Saigon at the beginning of the Tet offensive, LBJ's assistant for national security affairs - Walt Rostow - was playing host to four staff members of the Washington Post in the basement "situation room" of the White House. The WaPo had become skeptical of the progress being claimed in the war by the LBJ administration. Oberdorfer maintains that Rostow had promised to show the WaPo staff members captured Communist documents proving that the war was, indeed, going well for the United States.
Just after the WaPo journalists entered the W-H situation room, an urgent message was passed to Rostow and a briefing officer said, "Looks like some trouble in Saigon." Within minutes reports streamed in, including phone calls directly from the military guards at the US Embassy in Saigon. Rostow was, obviously, detracted from the briefing he had planned to give the WaPo journalists. As the journalists prepared to leave the situation room, a military briefing officer comment to them, "It appears the Viet Cong are attacking the Embassy in Saigon."
A front page cartoon in The Washington Daily News the next day showed a running General Westmoreland (armed with an M-16) and a running VC sapper (armed with an AK-47) colliding at the corner of the US Embassy building. The caption to the cartoon, taken from Westy's favorite phrase (and, now it seems, Bu$h's), read: "WE HAVE TURNED THE CORNER ..." Gen. Westmoreland.

US military deaths during Tet 68 (Jan 31 - Mar 31) - 3895

Allied deaths (other than RVN armed forces) - 214

Republic of Viet Nam Armed Forces deaths - 4954

NVA/VC deaths - 58,373

Civilian men, women, children of South Viet Nam - 14,300

(Official US and S. Viet Nam figures from "Dedication" of Tet!)


Gen. Loan executes VC captain, Saigon, Tet 1968
(Eddie Adam's Pulitzer Prize-winning photo)

If this is their idea of winning...then bring them home and there will be NO AMERICAN DEATHS. What a moronic empire we live in today.

Meanwhile, the Iraqi "government" have accomplished NOTHING since we started the surge. We just don't get it, and the spin meisters just keep spinning the shit to illogical ends, and the sheep public swallow it up.

Too many Americans are ignorant sons of bitches who don't have a rational mind to think with. I'm ashamed of just how ignorant we are as a nation.

and a justice system that could usurp what was "winning the hearts and minds" of Iraqi citizens

Alqaeda in Iraq trial of Iraq Islamic Army leader -

Let the world see how the savage conduct a trial of their anemies.
This specific trial of AlQaeda in what it calls Islamic State of Iraq to one of their previous major Alliance, the Islamic Army of Iraq.

Islamic Army of Iraq now figjhting Alqaeda and the fight is to control the huge Arab million of Dollars that they receive from donar.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ba5_1185457517

Their Basic Philosophy is one of GREED and SELF INTEREST....Period....The EVIDENCE is OVERWHELMING....They LIE CHEAT STEAL...this is what they do....

THIS IS ALL THEY DO...get over it...there is nothing Positive about the RePublican Party...IE Tom DeLay, Vitter, Larry Craig, Cheney, Bush the Little, Newt, OReally, Limbags, Rove, etc

What have we won? How are we going to pay the bill?

we wouldn't have been in Iraq in the first place.

zing!

Then they would resume talking about the importance of the "war on terror" and how voters shouldn't abandon the administration in the middle of a war.

I don't recall the poll off-hand, but Americans still want troops out of Iraq despite the drop in violence.

To November 21, we lost about 3875 troops or about 2.9 each day, averaged over the course of the war.

One can compare this gross average to a one-year rolling average number of troops lost each day in the last year. A year ago, in November 2006, that annual rolling average was about 2.8 troops lost each day; it started climbing in January 2007 and it has risen more or less steadily all year to its present value of 3.3 troops lost each day.

Translation: US casualties started to climb with the surge and are now occurring more frequently.

If you want to play with the data yourself, you can find it here: http://icasualties.org/oif/

when the troops surged into the "No Go" areas the #'s climbed as expected since they were entering the most inhospitable sections of Sadr city. You know, going into the valley of the shadow of death.
Did you expect them to be received with flowers and candy ?

http://icasualties.org/oif/
81 March
104 April
126 May
Surge at full 30,000 strength by mid June
101 June
78 July
84 August
65 Sept
38 October
32 November
0 December First 5,000 in surge downsize scheduled to begin


Civilian deaths have gone down but if the Iraqi security force melts away with the reduction of surge troops downsized,
expect these #'s to reverse;
http://www.icasualties.org/oif/IraqiDeaths.aspx
Jul-07 1458
Aug-07 1598
Sept-07 752
Oct-07 565
Nov-07 324

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/RadControls/Chart/Image.aspx?UseSession=true&ChartID=fbdba536-0784-36d1-b123-408d566c3e23_chart_Radchart2&imageFormat=Png&random=0.0437472602556214


btw,
these same sites are trolled by the leading candidates "people". They have taken notice of and are coming to the conclusion that progress is possible and a reduced US footprint can happen without a full cut and run retreat.
If the Iraqi govt refuses to seize the day,discard the crutch and get it all together well, the Iraqi's can vote them out next go round.

Source: The Brookings Institution Iraq Index, page 17

it's fine with me. The delusional 25% will believe the spin but no one else.

Here in Va. the convservatives have siezed pwoer even though their "policies" (mostly hate on them non-white foreigners) blew up in their faces in the elections THREE WEEKS AGO!!!

truly f***ing pathetic

lets face it there are probably alot on the far right who will jump at the hope, however feeble that the disaster they helped with their votes for Bush in 2000 and 2004 is becoming even a little bit better. After all it gives them the false sense that they were right to vote for him in 2000 and then again in 2004.

it's not hard to convince them of ANYTHING as long as it is good for the greedy old pig party

fast. So the argument that the Iraq war kept us from securing Afghanistan and capturing Osama is going to hit home.

I question the whole reason we're in Iraq. I feel the lies and deception to get us in there are crimes. I feel the Iraqis we've murdered warrant Bush and Cheney to be brought up on charges of crimes against humanity.

Unlike the Republicans, I see nothing good coming from this. To think so would be tantamount to jumping into a cesspool then being delighted that we are making progress swimming for the edge.