Many anti-Chávez expatriates won't vote

Source: Miami Herald

Posted on Tue, Nov. 27, 2007
Many anti-Chávez expatriates won't vote
BY TERE FIGUERAS NEGRETE AND PATRICIA MAZZEI

Venezuelan expatriates living in South Florida, many of whom left as President Hugo Chávez rose to power a decade ago, are keeping a wary eye on their homeland as a sweeping referendum to overhaul the constitution draws near. Although they, too, can cast votes, many plan to boycott.
Local activist groups, which in previous years have mobilized get-out-the-vote efforts, met last week to plot their strategy. They are urging fellow expats to stay home -- saying Chávez's proposed changes are illegal and the electoral process hopelessly compromised.

The proposed changes would, among other things, end term limits for the presidency -- a move expatriates say would allow Chávez to hold that office for life, likening him to his mentor and political ally, Cuba's Fidel Castro.

Supporters of Chávez's reform agenda point to provisions for a six-hour workday and state-mandated pensions for street vendors and maids.

Many younger Venezuelans say they feel disenfranchised after years of political tumult back home, and are concentrating on new lives in the United States. At the University of Miami's Coral Gables campus, Venezuelan student Francisco Paván said he is focusing more on his life in the U.S. -- such as studying for semester finals -- than on working to oppose Chávez.

A member of the Venezuelan student association, the finance major says he is gravely concerned about the turmoil in Caracas -- where his family lives and where his father owns a factory manufacturing parts for Toyota.



Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/321956.html

in Miami. You might want to see what he has to say. Interesting.

I haven't too much sympathy for these "ex patriates". I wouldn't like the idea of our monkey making those changes to our Constitution...or what's left of it. But by the same token, it sounds like he is doing a hell of a lot more for the masses than our shit head preznit. It's just the opposite up here. This prick is giving the breaks to the top 1%, and the poor are being forgotten...or they get "the trickle down crumbs".

Probably both have their problems.

the Constitution altogether! Hey, who needs it? Apparently the oligarchy has its own plans for its own Constitution when the opportunity is seized the next time.

Wikipedia's history of their Constitution:

The Constitution of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela is the current constitution of Venezuela. It was drafted in mid-1999 by a constitutional assembly that was created by popular referendum. This 1999 Constitution was adopted in December 1999, replacing the 1961 Constitution — which had been, of the 26 constitutions in use by Venezuela since its independence in 1811, the document that had remained in force for the longest time. It was primarily promoted by the current President of Venezuela Hugo Chávez and thereafter received strong backing from diverse sectors, including figures involved in promulgating the 1961 constitution such as Luis Miquilena and Carlos Andrés Pérez. Chávez and his followers (chavistas) refer to the 1999 document as the "Constitución Bolivariana" (the "Bolivarian Constitution") because they assert that it is ideologically descended from the thinking and political philosophy of Simón Bolívar and Bolivarianism.

The Constitution of 1999 was the first constitution approved by popular referendum in Venezuelan history, and summarily inaugurated the so-called "Fifth Republic" of Venezuela due to the socioeconomic changes foretold in its pages, as well as the official change in Venezuela's name from the "República de Venezuela" ("Republic of Venezuela") to the "República Bolivariana de Venezuela" ("Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela"). Major changes are made to the structure of Venezuela's government and responsibilities, while a much greater number of human rights are enshrined in the document as guaranteed to all Venezuelans — including free education up to tertiary level, free quality health care, access to a clean environment, right of minorities (especially indigenous peoples) to uphold their own traditional cultures, religions, and languages, among others. The 1999 Constitution, with 350 articles, is among the world's longest, most complicated, and most comprehensive constitutions.
(snip/...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Venezuela



Chávez holds copy of Venezuela's Constitution,
distributed everywhere in the country, even on
the backs of grocery item wrappers, like dry beans.

but they neglect to list the countries that have the same arrangements, like that radial Australia. :)

There are other things that never get mentioned, too, like equal rights reforms for minorities including gay people. But, Chavez is a dictator because the Miami Herald says so.

Gee, I learn something new every day.

a subject that I assume you are familiar with living where you do.

Chavez' increasingly bizarre behavior should give anyone pause when thinking about whether to overturn the limits on his power.

The hit pieces on Chavez, as many of us predicted, have been coming at about the rate of one a day in the run up to the election.

Those hit pieces characterize him in numerous negative ways.

Then, he is blamed for attention seeking.

The fact of the matter is that Spain, Britain and the US were all complicit in the attempted 2002 coup. Colombia has since been implicated in other destabilization efforts as well.

There is one very vigorous effort going on right now, as I type. Colombia is again implicated.

These flaps with both Spain and Colombia are not an accident or the work of someone who is out of control. It is a very clear signal that Venezuela is not as vulnerable today as it has been in the past and that these affronts to her sovereignty will not be tolerated.

That is what is going on here.

...the King of Sweden, Laura Palmer. It's easier to list the people not involved in the coup according to some of his supporters.

One of these days the failed coup against him is going to have to cease being the justification for his actions. And regardless of the media commentary on him, I base my opinion of him on his own actions and his own words, sans the bullshit that usually accompanies the writing about him - especially in sources like the Miami Herald. Regardless of their crap, I am growing less and less comfortable with him every time he opens his mouth. I chose the word "megalomania" specifically because of its inference that he has delusions of his own power and strength.

We will wait and see, but I predict serious problems ahead if he loses on his referendum.

push on again exactly right now.

And I tend to think oppositely. If the referendum is passed, these right wing efforts will intensify and that could get people killed. When the Chavez government loses, they come up with a new strategy. Our friends on the right aren't so nice in their tactics.

If he loses he'll have nobody to blame but himself.

and Germany have no term limits for their Presidents. Australian, European and Canadian DU'ers have already posted that there are bunches of countries with heads of state who have no term limits.

...that in most, if not all of those cases, the lack of term limits did not result from the aspirations of one individual to remain in office past existing term limits. This "reform" has only one goal, and that goal is to allow one person, Chavez, to remain in office indefinitely.

if not actually many goals -- they just don't get reported because the corporate media want to portray Chavez as a power monger, not a reformer. There is a thread in the Latin America forum that enumerates the reforms. You might check it out.

the the fuck off your high horse... you're living in one of the most corrupt country's in the world.

of Latin America. Stakes are pretty high.

but your commentary is still nothing more than attempted character assassination.

Your messages are loaded with invective.

- "a megalomaniac"
- "increasingly bizarre behavior"
- "he has delusions"
- "aspirations of one individual to remain in office"

You couch your words in a manner that invites the reader to accept them as established fact, but they are nothing more than subjective bombast.

And your 'discomfort' doesn't concern me in the least.

I give no credence to your substance free "analysis", yibbehobba.

From Dictionary.com

ref·er·en·dum

1. the principle or practice of referring measures proposed or passed by a legislative body to the vote of the electorate for approval or rejection.

e·lec·tor·ate

1. the body of persons entitled to vote in an election.

Hope that clears things up for you. Have a great day!

Militant group Vigilia Mambisa's Miguel Saavedra dings a Venezuelan
student protester with his bull-horn. You may recall Saavedra from
his fine work shutting down the Miami-Dade Presidential election vote
re-count,along with the Washington, D.C. Republican legislative aides,
of the "Brooks Brothers riot."

Saturday, January 20, 2007
The Attack on the Bolivarian Youth

Yesterday, several anti-Castro groups planned a demonstration at the Bay of Pigs memorial on Calle Ocho, from noon to six. They specifically gathered to protest the recent indictments of Luis Posada Carriles, and to call for his immediate release. The day for the demonstration was repeatedly publicized on Radio Mambi by its regular callers (of which they have many). Oddly enough, the date and time for the protest was also publicized in the Miami Herald, the day before in a related article .

As the demonstration began, a group of counter-demonstrators also showed up. Now, its important to state that there was only ONE video of the events that happened: that of WFOR CBS4 news, who also provide an unedited version online. After having seen the video and read several news reports of the incident, there were four anti-Carriles protesters who were attacked by about another three to four pro-Carriles protesters. The only provocation here was supposed chanting and holding up a large sign, that was later ripped up by the pro-Carriles crowd. The anti-Carriles group was attacked and chased away and have so far not filed any complaints to the police.

From the pictures and videos, the group that was attacked were members of the Bolivarian Youth and the attackers were members of Vigilia Mambisa, headed by Miguel Saavedra. The Miami New Times had a pretty good summary of Vigilia Mambisa in 2000 where they wrote that "{s}ome disapprove of Mambisa's street-theater tactics, labeling them emotional rather than practical... Other critics allege he and his band are paid provocateurs."
(snip)

Yet, only in Miami, where there is virtually little tolerance on the issue of Cuba, can such events occur. I place a lot of blame on the local media for their blind obedience and intimidation to the powerful Cuban-American political leadership, which continues to defend Luis Posada Carriles. The reports (so far) have not even made any attempt to contact the Bolivarian Youth, who were chased away before they could say anything to the media, and the incident is described as a "scuffle" or "clash", when in reality it was an attack.

Now, here's a way to make a judgment about some of the sentiments of the those who say that anti-Castro groups are generally peaceful and saintly. The video clearly shows the head of Vigilia Mambisa, Miguel Saavedra, chasing and hitting (at one point with his megaphone) a retreating member of the Bolivarian Youth.

http://mambiwatch.blogspot.com/2007/01/attack-on-bolivarian-youth.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You may recall Luis Posada Carriles, the man whose indictment they were protesting, was involved in the bombing/mass murder of 73 people (some children, and the entire Cuban national fencing team, and Guyanese medical students) on board a Cubana airliner, travelling from Venezuela.

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com.nyud.net:8090/images/posada.jpg

Young and old Luis Posada Carriles bomber/mass murderer extraordinaire one-time head of
Venezuelan secret police,CIA and Iran-Contra operative.Cuban "exile," and Miami celebrity.

In a paragraph further down (not posted) re an expat Venezuelan in Miami:

"She plans to vote Sunday, despite her suspicions that the referendum may be rigged in Chávez's favor -- accusations that have plagued previous elections, but which have been dismissed by officials in Caracas as well as the Miami consulate." --Miami Herald (so-called journalists Tere Figueras Negrete and Patricia Mazzei) (my emphasis)

These repeated and absurd accusations of rigged elections by the Venezuelan rightwing have been dismissed by THE CARTER CENTER, and by the OAS and EUROPEAN UNION ELECTION MONITORING GROUPS, who have been permitted to crawl all over Venezuela during election time, with hundreds of election monitors, and have UNANIMOUSLY declared Venezuelan elections to be honest and aboveboard. Furthermore, these groups don't just drop into a country and monitor elections, they help set up election systems that are transparent, so that it is possible to monitor them and determine their fairness.

These rightwing accusations were NOT just "dismissed by officials in Caracas" and by "the Miami consulate." The goddamned lie here is that only interested parties have "dismissed" the accusations. The accusations "have plagued previous elections" because the rich rightwing elite--that has so mismanaged Venezuela's resources and economy, and have so failed as a ruling class, that they have left millions and millions of people without access to a decent living, schools, medical care and housing--don't have anything else to say for themselves but "we was robbed." They can't win elections for dogcatcher in Venezuela, because their leaders are greedy fuckups like Bush.

Venezuela has electronic voting, but it is an OPEN SOURCE CODE system--anyone may review the code by which the votes are tabulated--and they handcount a whopping FIFTY-FIVE PERCENT of the votes, as a check on machine fraud. Contrast this with Florida, and most of the U.S., where electronic voting machines are run on 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, with virtually NO audit recount controls--ZERO handcount in many parts of Florida--not to mention Florida Republican corruption, whereby the black and the poor are purged from the voting rolls, and 50,000 Absentee Ballot votes in Democratic areas were 'lost in the mail' in 2004, and 18,000 votes for Congress in the Democratic areas of one Congressional district (FL-13) were 'disappeared' by ES&S election theft machines (kindred to Diebold machines), in 2006, in an 'election' (decided for the Bushite--natch!) by some 350 votes.

But rightwing Venezuelans no doubt prefer these kinds of elections--the kind we have in Florida and throughout the U.S.--filthy, rightwing corporate-controlled 'elections' that put Bushes, and other traitorous shit-heads in power. It's the kind of elections THEY would hold. No, forget that. They wouldn't even hold phony elections. They're into rightwing military coups, where they suspend the Constitution, the National Assembly, the courts and all civil rights, and declare themselves the rulers. Next step (if they had succeeded) throwing leftists out of airplanes, after they torture them, and mass graves for union organizers and peasant farmers and others who dissent. Not just 'disappeared' votes, not just suspended laws, but 'disappeared' people and 'suspended' lives.

Well, we know what these wingers do in South America. And we know what Bushes do. What continues to shock--even after multiple examples--is the OUTRIGHT LYING of our news organizations. This article is an utter disgrace to journalism.

They said they didn't find any evidence of statisically provable fraud that would have changed the outcome. They did not make the claim that it "was all honest and above board".


They also made several important caveats.

Although doubts were raised about the security of
ballot boxes in between the recall referendum and the
audit, and doubts were raised about the security of the
program generating the audit sample, it should be
emphasized that the paper audit produced results that
very closely matched the electronic tally and that any
manipulation of the non-audited centers would not
only need to bias the audited centers to match a fraudulent
outcome but would need to choose centers that
were somehow also representative in the 2000 election.
It might also be mentioned that none of the claims for
evidence of fraud suggested a fraud so great as to
change the exit-polled 60/40 opposition win to the
official 40/60 government win.


http://www.cartercenter.org/documents/2020.pdf

"That said, the panel only concludes that there is
no statistical evidence of fraud based on the reports we
have examined. The panel cannot explain why the exit
polls proved so mistaken– though, following Weisbrot,
the panel can point to one exit poll conducted without
opposition help by the American firm Evans/McDonough
that found results of 55 percent No to 45 percent Yes.

The Venezuelan recall referendum implemented
more security and trust-building features than electronic
elections in many other countries, including paper
receipts and the cold audit. Although the hot audit on
Aug. 15 was not successful, the hot audit performed
during the Oct. 31 elections was quite successful,
dispelling many of the kinds of doubts that appeared
after the recall referendum. The panel has made further
recommendations in the section above for building
trusted elections, but the Venezuelan election authority
already has most of the pieces in place for building a
trustworthy voting system in which it will be even
more difficult to perpetrate any substantial fraud."

That's from page 134 for those interested.

Thanks for throwing some REAL light on the matter.

Very convincing final paragraph. So kind of you to provide the location of that quote offered!

Is that they did not say everything was above board. And it is not out of the question that many in that country do not have faith in the electoral process.

They would NEVER say everything was above board because they would never be in a position to know that. All they will ever know is that NOTHING was found to support the notion that the result of the election was not fair and honest, and that it what they said.

Personally I always assume politicians will rig elections if:

1.) They need to to win
2.) They are in a position to hope they will get away with it

In Mr. Chavez case, #1 does not apply, so while some of his supporters may think a bit of cheating is in order, he is unlikely to do so.

On the other hand, the Opposition has no chance at all of winning fair elections, so there is every reason to think that they will try to manipulate the situation, and that is what the fake poll shows.

was on page #55, and it says, "Opinion polls showed Chávez regaining support
among likely voters and suggested that
high voter turnout would favor the president."
(snip)

Your help would be appreciated, as I need to see that quote and the context, after that.

Fixing America's Broken Election
Posted December 11, 2006 | 04:14 PM (EST)

~snip~
The Venezuelan voting system proved itself over the weekend. In South America, as in many other countries, part of the election process is the post-voting accusations and, as in Mexico's case, a refusal to accept the results. This was the first Venezuelan election in Chavez's time where, at the end of the day, the opposition announced it was accepting the validity of the process.

This is no small achievement in a tumultuous coup-ridden country. The Venezuelan system is both low tech and high tech - some of it is not new - some of it is unique. It uses a paper ballot audit of a sophisticated electronic machine as well as thumbprints dipped in ink to prove the voter did not vote twice.

Venezuela's paper ballot audits of electronic machines are as good as any other known voting system. I saw them operating this past Sunday in Sanarae in the province of Lara five hours southwest of Caracas. The voters I spoke to, whether they be for or against Chavez, had faith in the ballot counting. Not only does the voting work, but the voters feel their votes are being protected. That may explain why 73% of Venezuelans voted, a percentage never reached in America, with its over 200 years of a democratic process. In the 2004 American percentage was only 55% which, by American standards, is high.

The voting system I monitored was newly created by Venezuela's National Electoral Council. The Council is a separate branch of government not under the authority or the political control or manipulation by executive or legislature branches. It is carefully selected, with nominations to the Commission coming from elected officials, academics, university and non-profits. Its present President has ten years of experience in voting systems. Both sides experiences satisfaction with the Council - America does not have a corresponding entity.
(snip)

Venezuela last week was flooded with international observers from the EEU, the OAS, the Jimmy Carter Center, as well groups of judges and elected officials from throughout the world. The European Union Election Observation Committee, earlier in 2006, looking at the system, said, "The Venezuelan voting system possesses a number of features that are in line with the most advanced international standards of e-voting. In certain aspects, such as the paper trail audit, the system developed in Venezuela is probably the most advanced system in the world to date."

The Carter Center previously looked at the system during the 2004 failed referendum to recall Chavez. According to their report of that year, "The Carter Center concludes that the automated machines worked well and the voting results do reflect the will of the people."
(snip/...)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-garbus/fixing-americas-broken-e_b_36066.html

"Give me your fascists, your rich,
Your greedy bastards yearning to make more,
The heartless robbers of your helpless poor.
Send these to me in gilded ships,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Jeb Bush, 2000

---------------------

The original...

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Emma Lazarus, 1883

to be afixed to another Statue of Liberty in the water near Miami, facing south, would most surely apply!

So if they're not accumulating vast sums of wealth to the detriment of everyone else down in Caracas, then they're on American soil doing the same thing, right? We want regulated markets and fair competition, not oligarchy.

I read once that a good look at who has moved to South Florida would give one the impression Latin America has vomited all the fascist dictators and death squad members upon its shores! Not at all far from the truth, unfortunately.

had not Reagan succeeded in capturing El Salvador.

kept the country convulsed by fear, and did such a thorough job of it the right-wing was the only group left standing, almost the only group of anyone left!

American blow-hards who won't bother themselves to get informed on US/Latin American history love to boast that the left wing simply disintegrated because it was so inferior. The left wing was MURDERED, deliberately, often after unforgiveable torture, and cruelty beyond description.

Villages wiped out, any survivors fleeing to hide in the forest, deliberate terrorism by the government forces to terrorize any of the living to the point they would never dare raise their eyes to them again, like that smooth trick played out in which they took an entire dead family, cut off their heads, placed them sitting around their humble table in their tiny home with their heads on their plates, to shock and horrify the villagers who would discover them when they returned.

SOA graduates, still living in Latin America have so much to be proud of from their predation upon their fellow citizens in endless waves of bloodbaths.... What a miserable nightmare.

These guys show up in Miami if their countries start going left, scared to death people will want to get their revenge. Your recall they've had repeated orders for extradition of men in Miami for trial over the last few years, some from death squads, and some much more highly placed.

You're right. Guatemala is still completely safe for their death squad killers, it appears, thanks to some heavy help from Ronald Reagan.

I'm afraid to ask about his involvement. The oligarchy always cloaks their behavior in stirring, patriotic speech acts when in reality, they are talking about theft, oppression and murder.

It's sort of fascinating to see how it gets made.

is if he is ELECTED again and again.

... as a popular president of the United States would be IF we didn't have term limits, which are actually undemocratic.

These poor crybaby rich people are just pissed b/c they know how popular he is and that their own capitalist greedhead candidates will not win against someone like that.

Democracy Still Alive and Well in Venezuela
By Mark Weisbrot, AlterNet
Posted on November 27, 2007, Printed on November 28, 2007

On December 2 Venezuelans will vote on a number of amendments to their constitution, and if you have heard anything about this it will likely be grim news. The major media generally abandons quaint notions of balance and objectivity when reporting on Venezuela. Oddly, this post-modern philosophy often extends to left-of-center newspapers who do not normally follow the Bush administration's lead when reporting on other oil states where regime change is sought (Iran) or in process (Iraq).

The biggest fuss this time seems to be the amendment that would abolish term limits for the presidency. Perhaps it is because I am from Chicago, and had only one mayor from the time I was born until I graduated college, that I am unable to see this as the making of a dictatorship. Not to mention that if Hilary Clinton is elected next year, we will have Bushes and Clintons as heads of state for a full consecutive 24years, and possibly 28.

President Lula da Silva of Brazil defended Venezuela last week, asking why "people did not complain when Margaret Thatcher spent so many years in power." He added: "You can invent anything you want to criticize Chavez, but not for lack of democracy." Lula has repeatedly defended Venezuela's government as democratic, but these comments are never reported in the English language media.

Chavez is also castigated for proposing to get rid of the independence of the Central Bank, which is inscribed in the 1999 constitution. This is portrayed as just another "power grab." However, there are sound economic reasons for this amendment. Central Banks that are not accountable to their elected governments are not altogether "independent" but tend to represent the interests of the financial sector. In the tradeoff between growth and employment versus inflation, the financial sector will always opt for lower inflation, even if it means stagnation and unemployment.

More:
http://www.alternet.org/audits/69041/

Trick #481 in disrupting an election.

You know they will have trumped up "exit polls" showing the referendum losing badly at about 2pm on election day, then suggest shenanigans when it goes on to victory. These people are ruthless assholes.