Americans are growing increasingly optimistic about developments in Iraq, accord

Source: AFP

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Americans are growing increasingly optimistic about developments in Iraq, according to a new poll published Tuesday amid signs of US military progress in the war and a monthly decline in troop deaths.

Some 48 percent of those polled by the Pew Research Center thought that the US military effort in Iraq was going very well or fairly well, up from June when only a third of Americans thought things were going well.

But rising favorable sentiment about the war among the US public is failing to translate into a boost in support for keeping troops in Iraq.

By 54 to 41 percent, Americans in the poll favored bringing troops home as soon as possible rather than keeping them in Iraq until the situation stabilizes -- a balance of opinion barely changed from earlier in the year.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071127/pl_afp/usiraqpoll;_ylt=A9G_R20yi0xHXwIAUgaShMgF

---

Headline should read:

Poll: Americans are increasingly happy when they have smoke blown up their bums.

I love this country,,,, but we have this one short coming that really irks me.

If the media is able to market something so that Americans think it's good, we shut down the critical thinking part of our brain and go to our "happy place" where all is well.

I pray that in the future, boards like DU will have more of a direct interface with people from all over the world. In this particular case the Iraqi's.

How do they feel?

What other measure matters?

My number one question.

Which is how the headline should read.

But hey, what do I know.

"They don't let 'em lie on the news!"

:argh:

Tue Nov-27-07 12:36 PM
Original message
At Least 35 Dead in Iraq Violence

Source: NY Times

BAGHDAD, Nov. 27 — American troops killed at least five people, including a child, when they fired on vehicles trying to drive through roadblocks in two separate incidents, military officials and witnesses said today.

Across Iraq, at least 30 other people were killed or found dead. In one incident, a suicide bomber in Baquba claimed the lives of three women and three policemen.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/world/middleeast/28ir...


I'm sure though, Republicans will keep painting that pretty picuture that THEY think is Iraq...

Forget that the Iraqi government was supposed to do something during this "surge". Forget that another hundred American military died and another thousand were injured. Forget that we spent another 30 billion to finance this party. FOCUS ON we have seen a decrease in sectarian violence...the least important point of all...considering the areas we surged into are pretty much religiously cleansed and 4 million Iraqis have either left the country or left their homes.

We can call this "success". Spin away meisters. And we, the ignorant and busy-shopping American public, eat this shit up and smile with glee as this country continues it's unjust, unnecessary and futile war in a land 10,000 miles away so that fat cats can get rich while we go into debt for the next fifty years, fuel hatred toward America and sell our souls to the Chinese bankers.

We are fools...led by idiots.

Welcome to DU :hi: if't I haven't before

This report feeds right into the group think that is killing this country-You DO want to be just like everyone else DON'T YOU!?!?!?

who answered "yes" to whether things were going well aren't necessarily idiots, because I'd answer the same way. That doesn't mean I think the improvements are meaningful or permanent, that the war/occupation is a good idea, or that we shouldn't start bringing our troops home.

a little bit better.

I hope, are smart enough to find the real truth and not what the MSM is telling them. That may be a false hope because American's memories are historically short and this rogue administration is counting on that.
In the past we had media that would probe and do their own investigations into matters. Now we have a propaganda machine set up for this regime.

People tend to believe this drivel that is put out by msm newspapers and tv. Sad. Just tell me what you want me to hear and I will shut up and go away.

Sad.

Forum Name Latest Breaking News
Topic subject Two American soldiers killed in an explosion north of Baghdad
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3080200#3080200
3080200, Two American soldiers killed in an explosion north of Baghdad
Posted by sabra on Tue Nov-27-07 04:00 PM

Source: AP

BAGHDAD (AP) - The military says two U.S. soldiers have been killed in an explosion north of Baghdad.

They're the first U.S. combat deaths reported in five days. And in Diyala province, northeast of Baghdad, police say a burst of violence has killed at least 11 Iraqis, including seven who died when a suicide bomber attacked a police headquarters.

Read more: http://www.wlfi.com/Global/story.asp?S=7416438

Damn, I must have missed something.

It was supposed to be a Congress that had a set...

Things are arguably "better" in Iraq and I'm fairly certain this is reflected in the poll. But this "improvement" is measured against a background of failure. It is only an improvement in that we've returned to a horrible state from an intolerable one. And Americans seem to implicitly recognize this, in that they still think we should leave and that we aren't accomplishing anything there.

that we should not be there, and that we should get out as soon as possible.
I stand by my original statement: Americans are fucking morons. Not every American, but a hell of a lot of them. Let the media tell them how to think. That's fantastic, must be easy having someone else to do your thinking for you.

This poll only reflects the reduced violence. I think its clear that, since most Americans in this poll want to leave, they view the situation as still "horrible."

Now, of course there is the 30% that think we're going to "win" in Iraq, but they are eternal.

It also reflects fluffed up stories such as this one (below) that are being spread about in the media.

Hundreds of Iraqi refugees leaving Syria

DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) — In the first-ever convoy financed by their government, hundreds of Iraqi refugees boarded buses leaving Syria on Tuesday and heading home to Baghdad, cautiously hoping the improvement in security means they can stay for good.

Khaled Ibrahim, 45, from central Baghdad, said he was so homesick after having been away for a year, that he wanted to give it a try after hearing things in Iraq have improved.

"If I go and discover that the situation is not stable I will come back" to Syria, said Ibrahim, with his wife, three sons and two daughters in tow.

His elder son Abdullah, 13, helped load the family's bags in a small pickup that was to drive them to the buses parked about 800 meters (yards) away at the collection point in Damascus.

"I will go to school in Baghdad and explosions don't scare me," chirped Abdullah, in blue jeans and beige jacket.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-11-27-syria-buses_N.htm?csp=34

The reality is that the majority of Iraqi's returning from Syria are only doing so because they must. While the article lightly touches on the visa problems that many of the refugees are facing they gloss over the fact that visa and money problems are the major reason for peoples return.

They're currently stuck in Syria with no money and no legal way to make any. I believe it was 70% of the people the UNHCR interviewed that sited such problems as the reason for their return, vs. 14% which said it was increased security.

It would be more factual to say that financial problems are driving Iraqi refugees from Syria rather than claiming that increased security is bringing them back to Iraq. However, it wouldn't feel nearly as good to the readers so they fluff up the story.

Maybe a history book about the Third Reich and its wars of aggression during Wold War II or Mussolini's adventure in Africa gives an answer to this question ...
BTW: It's really not ironic that Herr Bush talks more and more about World War III.

only 25 to 30 soldiers dying every month now... what an improvement! :sarcasm:

Americans need to read between the lines, question what they read, stop gobbling propaganda / i.e. mainstream media "news" blips, and... read more. Then maybe more of them could give a coherent response to "developments in Iraq." We Yanks don't have to be ignorant--it's a choice like any other.

One of US benchmarks (within Iraq's "Justice and Accountability Law,") was rejected yesterday by Shias in Iraqi Parliament. It would have allowed Sunni Baathists rights to return to public life. Its rejection signaled lack of movement toward political reconciliation -- the very goal of the entire surge and a benchmark goal.(do a google search on "Shiites reject Suunis in Iraq" or see story in http://www.arabtimesonline.com/client/pagesdetails.asp?nid=8543&ccid=11# )
(NY Times also has a good analytical article, "At Street Level, Unmet Goals of Troop Buildup", Sept 9 07)

Increased troops have put the lid on some of the violence. How can this be translated to progress toward political reconciliation, which is the only thing that will bring stability in Iraq, keep it from continuing descent into civil war?

I have switched to Independent (former Dem of many years) because Dems will not fight/pursue impeachment of the warlords who brought about this entire tailspin dynamic--for us, for Iraq, for the world. ## As for our schools--they have neglected to teach civics, reading, and writing for about 3 decades. Many Americans (most?) have no idea what our Constitution is about. We are seeing the results of weak education--our people gobbling up mainstream news blips like they're Cheese Puffs.

:toast:

Bush just signed a long term commitment of military troops with Maliki.... and not a single Democrat candidate rejected it... In other words Bushie is making decisions that the next President will be stuck with. Total Lack of Leadership..

Wait till the real Propaganda starts in about 8 months... Bush has already negotiated long term military presence with Maliki, the Marshall plan if you will... In any event there is going to be baseing rights etc, all in the name of peace and we will be sold/told that if we don't then booga booga Al-Qaida gonna come and get us....

How can Bush get away with this... Why isn't our side out in front condeming that crap that he just signed with Maliki? What if the Democratic President in 09 doesn't agree to these terms....

Ohh the Frustration.

Out of a population of 24 million, we have killed over a million, force about 4.5 million to leave their homeland. Only about 18.5 million more innocent people have to be killed or forced to flee and we will have ourselves a winner. I'm optimistic that the cancer caused from our use of DU will help to decrease the time it takes to complete our genocide.

God help us all.

The "Hitler holds a Peace Conference" thing is indeed inspired. A truly grand Marketing Push to rebrand a monstrous war criminal into Jesus Christ.

And you know what? It's going to work. Just enough people are going to be confused just enough.

The Bushies have figured this all out to six decimal places and as psychology teaches them, the larger the group the more predictably it can be manipulated.

The Laundering of Lies takes place nearly unimpeded from what it was seven years ago, and with nearly the same success rate.

And if his approval rating are 99% or 24%, it doesn't matter because the Fuhrer has the power. That is the beginning and the end of what matters to Busies, nazis, or any of their type.

I'm optimistic that more people will be killed before this mess is over. I'm optimistic that Bush will signal the return of 5000 troops as a draw down. I'm optimistic that the Democratic Congress will not cutoff funding.

.

Just this morning I saw a piece on CBS discussing how much better things were with the journalist wearing a flak jacket on the outside of his clothes...

Can we say DISCONNECT?

about the future of war criminals, fascists and mass murderers like Bush:

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/interviews/077

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc

" …History shows it’s not enough to impeach criminals and
murderers. You have to put them behind bars.

The Founders did not intend for us to delegate the defense of liberty
to a professional class of pundits or politicians or constitutional
scholars. The Founders intended for us to do it.

What the Founders intended was for ordinary Americans, ordinary
people to assume the patriot’s task and lead the fight to restore
democracy, and to see themselves as leaders."

of gassholeline. The prices are up so progress must be up.

What else can these dumbshits be going by, the Black Friday sales advertisements?

well" to "well" does not tell me anything.

Of course there is no resistance. They were mass murdered.

is whether Americans will actually believe this and vote accordingly. That is the problem. :(

Murtha finds military progress in trip to Iraq

Warns that Iraqis must do more for their own security
snip
"I think the 'surge' is working," the Democrat said in a videoconference from his Johnstown office,
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07333/837824-100.stm?cmpid=latest.xml

when is his seat comming up for a vote?

July 31, 2007 video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSloxwWcte4&eurl=http://hotair.com/archives/2007/11/29/hell-freezes-over-i-think-the-surge-is-working-says-murtha/