Democrats Strip Michigan of Delegates (to 2008 Convention for Early Primary)

Source: Associated Press

Democrats strip Michigan of delegates
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Va. - Democratic leaders voted Saturday to strip Michigan of all its delegates to the national convention next year as punishment for scheduling an early presidential primary in violation of party rules. Michigan, with 156 delegates, has scheduled a Jan. 15 primary. Democratic Party rules prohibit states other than Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina from holding nominating contests before Feb. 5.

- snip -

Michigan officials anticipated the action by the Democratic National Committee's rules panel. But Michigan Democratic Chairman Mark Brewer said before the vote that he didn't think the delegates would be lost for good. He expects the Democratic presidential nominee will insist the state's delegates be seated at the convention.

Nevertheless, Saturday's vote further diminishes the significance of Michigan's Democratic primary. All the major Democratic candidates have already agreed not to campaign in either Michigan or Florida because the states violated party rules. And in Michigan, most of the major candidates won't even be on the ballot.

Democratic candidates John Edwards, Barack Obama, Bill Richardson and Joe Biden have withdrawn their names from the ballot to satisfy Iowa and New Hampshire, which were unhappy Michigan was challenging their leadoff status on the primary calendar. That leaves Hillary Rodham Clinton, Dennis Kucinich, Chris Dodd, Mike Gravel and "uncommitted," as the choices on the Democratic ballot in Michigan. The DNC rules panel voted by voice vote, with only a few dissents.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071201/ap_on_el_pr/primary_scramble

Has this been done before? Or is this the first time that states have broken rules in setting their dates?

because they can't let states decide their own election and voting policies (as by the Constitution).

It is my belief that all primary elections should be all on the same day...three months prior to the election in November. Too much money and time spent on elections now. People lose interest in the discussions, etc.

They do it in Britain with public financing for candidates. That didn't keep Tony Blair from being elected though. He lied like many of our candidates for public office. We and the press fail to hold them accountable.

Sorry Michigan we here in Illinois get ignored also. The largest states (mostly liberal with union and job issues) get little voice in the primaries. Is that on purpose?

Australians called their elections in October, and they already have a new PM!

All this extended electoral season does is empower the corporations that corrupt the process.

the foot.

when the focus is put on more conservative states.

Leadership in both of these States voted to censure. Who are the good guys here? Could it be that Michigan and Floriday are challenging a system designed to disinfranchise in favor of chosen candidates? I am not saying I know this to be true. But I am sure we are not getting the whole story here.

We should be digging up the truth here folks....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3085345&mesg_id=3085410

She has been following this fight from it's inception
in the Florida State House and Senate.

It's UGLY. And it's DLC.

But it's NOT WHAT YOU THINK.

It's about front loading the primaries.

Michigan is just jumping on the bandwagon right now
because it's Governor is DLC and she wants to present
a Clinton juggernaut as a fete accompli.

:puke:

Disgusting.

Levin is all for it because he and Dingell have sincerely been
fighting for YEARS to bump Iowa and New Hampshire from the limelight
and get some relevance for the "rust belt".

This was NOT THE YEAR to play chicken.

The county committee meetings that I went to and the ones
that I heard about were all DEAD SET AGAINST this early
primary.

If the states had a problem with the primary dates, they should not have agreed to follow the primary schedule in the first place.

The time to raise these objections is before you agree to the schedule and the rules, not after.

It's like me signing a 12-month lease and then deciding 1 month in that I want to move out. The Florida and Michigan Democrats are whiny crybabies over this and deserve no sympathy for anyone.

Maybe, if they actually care about when their primary is scheduled, they will learn to raise objections before they agree to the schedule next time.

And we COMMITTEE MEMBERS said as much in meeting here.

This was FOISTED on us by the legislature, the Governor,
and the State Party Chair.

This is Mark Brewer and Levin's doing. This has nothing to do with us.

I'm hearing more and more saying they're voting Republican in the primary and maybe the General to send a message. That's bad.

Why should voters be disenfranchised for changes we didn't even get to vote on?

Of course it is. By the time big ,industrial states get polled, its all over. I don't care if Michigan sends any delegates to Denver at all. Its all show anyway. it's all big money from special interests that elect our president. Had Michigan been a well behaved step child, we'd been ignored anyway. So lets just stay home and take care of our own.

what the rest of the asshats on t.v. say, there will be a lot of people voting in the primaries.. I didn't mind if they moved the primaries up a bit, but to have not say at the convention sucks.. However, with the Florida primaries being so late in the past, it didn't really matter... many of the people running had already dropped out and it was a mute point... So, this time around, we may not count... but the trend will be set (if the machines don't mess up too much). And more people are coming out to vote.... I wish they had set them just a week or 2 later, then it would still be important and we wouldn't be snubbed.

Time to clean house in Michigan....

as a poll worker, I get paid whether anyone shows up or not. Whether the election decides anything or not. Seems there's still some waste and fraud to deal with!

play because they knew what the DNC would do if they did it.. the repugs, get at least 1/2 the delegates.. so, a lot of progresives are switching parties to vote for Ron Paul. Which is going to take the trend in Florida and make it much more Republican looking, so they can steel the election in Florida easier in the general election.... Pawns on the board....

I believe Ron Paul to be a Ross Perot like figure. He's a good guy (tells us what we want to hear) who will let us down in the end so the other "elite chosen" candidate will win. If he was so great why didn't he run as an Independent? His party has torn up the Constitution.

Ross Perot distroyed a third party option in this country. Jessie Ventra finished it off.

Are Dingles and Levin pro-ME war and globalists?

Yes "glowing"...pawns on a board.

of course they will rig the votes for Rudy. Ron Paul may have a few redeeming qualities, but he is too boot strapped and free market for my taste.

alternative with a Independent.

This is a disaster for the Dems in two of the largest states in the union. Punishment of party leaders is one thing, but this is wholesale disenfranchisement of every Dem in both states.

Well, this decision will certainly help the Dems in Michigan and Florida. And those two states aren't very important to winning the election, are they?

So much for saying they'll never unseat our delegates. I can't wait until we have a party chair who actually listens to the people. I'm so angry right now I could scream.

Love the photo in your sig line!

I can't believe it has come to this in an election of this significance.

Herr Rove is laughing over his morning coffee today.

I was GOBSMACKED when I read that the
State Committee Chairs had voted to
go ahead with the primary after they
KNEW how the rank and file felt....

I've talked with him a time or two. He's a schmuck.

Our county party is a mess. There are the golden few in charge, and they run roughshod over everyone else. They ignore their own by-laws, and they've even been censured by the state party--and yet, Mark Brewer doesn't do a damn thing about it. No, no, it's far too important to keep those people in power than to fix things and make them right.

votes. Yup, that's smart thing to do. Good grief.

in the Hillary for president campaign....any other results will be usurpt by big $ contributers who have bought and paid for hillary as president


just a prediction

Most did, except Hillary and Kucinich. So I guess I'll vote for Kucinich. Odds are he'd win in Michigan, too. Wouldn't that be a hoot!

in two states pissed off? Millions without a primary choice?

You may consider the following. Democratic leaders in both Presidential elections gave Bush the election without protesting the fraud, caging, and computer machine manipulation at the Electoral College Certification. They silenced the Black Caucus in 2000. In 2004 the Black Caucus spoke out but little was done to stop the certification process by the leaders.

Are the leadership in our party trying to lose elections on purpose? When they picked Lieberman for VP (not even Democrats like him) it sent up a red flag for me. We should have won the 2000 election hands down. The country was prosperous and with no major wars.

The TV "election dog and pony show" on election night and in Florida recounts, etc. was a nightmare. Silence on the part of the Democratic leaders was scary. I will never forgive them for their incompetence or was it treason?

Gore couldn't give Bush the election fast enough. Ya..there was a plan and I believe a coupe.

Prosperity and wealth in CA (technology) was destroyed by the next administration...NY City and DC crippled. Many Democratic states and cities had strange disasters (such as Katrina and those bridge disasters).

They may be trying to narrow and pick their preferred candidates before the Democratic Convention. Whatever the reason we have to clean house. If they continue we might consider another party who believes in democracy. It's not just Republicans who are stealing our vote.

an Independent pary with the disillusionment and anger the country has right now with both parties.

I think this could seriously backfire on the Democrats when the general election roles around. I think a lot of fence sitters will vote Republican because of this MEGA slap in the face.

There is nothing inherent Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina going first? They all sound like the state versions of Veruca Salt.

Ultimately, what has to happen is that the states need to develop a 16 year schedule that moves the states through voting quadrants. You set up 4 blocks. Everybody gets put in a block and you have to have your primary during that time. States voting in the first block in one election year would vote in the last in the next.

Fuck New Hampshire.

They should stop suing the DNC and trying to be public martyrs, and they should be honest and put their own houses in order.

Details here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=486761&mesg_id=486761

Levin almost got Michigan's delegates stripped by McAuliffe...but no one got mad then.

You mean their political leaders did it on purpose not the party members. Where is the democracy in this situation?

wanted them to drop this idiotic plan and go back to our original Feb. 9 caucus plan. The state chair went to meeting after meeting around the state where people overwhelmingly wanted them to drop this -- it backfired. So much for listening to the people.

Same in my district...no support for Brewer.

IMHO the state and county parties will lose membership over this.

Though I do agree that the system is broke and the Iowa/NH monopoly should be changed this is not the way to do it.

Ask the legislative leaders and the state parties. I won't say much about Michigan, but I know that when Gov. Granholn signed the measure she knew her state would lose delegates.

Florida worked with the GOP on this issue, and they knew they would lose their delegates. Dean tried to work with them, they publicly blew him off.

They should ask their state leaders where their loyalties lie, and which candidate they did this for. Only one on the MI ballot now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=486761&mesg_id=486761

the MI ballot and I hear from many at our county party that they will vote Dodd or uncommitted. There is much resentment and feeling that Hillary is already chosen though there are many Clinton supporters. A minority for Kuchinich. Nobody I know of for Gavel. Probably 60/40 with Clinton having 40% from those who are die-hard Granholm supporters.

Don't waste your time with beauty contests. Head to head matchup polls show Romney faring worst against the leading Democrats.

Or if you want Dodd or Kucinich, vote for them. Of course, if you're a Hillary fan, feel free to vote for her.

I suspect Ron Paul will get the nod

Many, many Ron Paul signs and bumper stickers around West Michigan.

People are pissed. This is not going to go well.

I'd prefer if my vote counted.

However, knowing it doesn't count, I'm really interested to see how many people vote for Kucinich. It'd be a better test if all names were on the ballot, but all the same, it'll be interesting to see how our vote is different from other states since we don't have to worry about "electability" or the "lesser of two evils."

I think this vote is more likely to reflect what would happen if we had instant runoff voting, since we don't have motivation to self-censor our votes to adjust for IRV effects.

Levin and Dingell pushed for it. They knew exactly what would happen.

or are they just dumb asses in sheeps clothing

I blame her for all of this.

nt

VIENNA, Va. (AP) -- Democratic leaders voted Saturday to strip Michigan of all its delegates to the national convention next year as punishment for scheduling an early presidential primary in violation of party rules.

Michigan, with 156 delegates, has scheduled a Jan. 15 primary. Democratic Party rules prohibit states other than Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina from holding nominating contests before Feb. 5.

Florida was hit with a similar penalty in August for scheduling a Jan. 29 primary.

Michigan officials anticipated the action by the Democratic National Committee's rules panel. But Michigan Democratic Chairman Mark Brewer said before the vote that he didn't think the delegates would be lost for good. He expects the Democratic presidential nominee will insist the state's delegates be seated at the convention. . .http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Primary-Scramble.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7436236&nav=menu44_2

More about it in case anyone is interested in how it went down in both states.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x486761

Levin almost got Michigan stripped last time...

They all knew exactly what they were doing. It was on purpose, it was intentional.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x486761

I support her as governor, but this Machine Politics is offensive and wrong. She should have had no part in this disenfranchisement.

She's already endorsed Hillary. Gee, I wonder who all the Dem leadership wants us to vote for. Grr.

even after a state court initially declared the primary unconstitutional State leaders did all they could to reinstate the Jan primary. Mich would have little influence in the current DNC plan, so why not make it official.

and come to some sort of compromise? Rotating the states? Something?

They did it to be relevant, they knew they delegates would be lost, and they did not care.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x486761

And when can we start doing it? IOWA ALWAYS FIRST is UNFAIR.

He said he thought the DNC should work for them by 2012. But these two states jumped the gun.

Dean has said this often:
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1623

One Florida blogger actually said that Florida voted 115 to 1 to move up the primary to force change.

Well, they did force something.

There is only so much change a chairman working for change can make when the establishment Dems are working against him. The lawsuit by Nelson is this week. Will be curious to see how it goes.

As you know the primary dates are set by the state legislatures. Dean has nothing to do with it. He can call for regional primaries and it is meaningless. The dates have to be set with the cooperation of both the Democratic an Republican parties. It would cost too much to have two dates - one for each party. Dean has no power here. The states have to do this on their own. To hell with Iowa and New Hampshire. Anyone in the way of change must be deposed.

He did not CALL for it. He gave an opinion.

Unlike your ranting I am trying to give a rational thought. The DNC has no power to work for it. None at all.

And what the heck are you so upset about?

Not all state legislatures set the dates. In many states it's up to the Parties themselves. And not all are cooperative efforts between Parties. Especially in caucus states.

Michigan gets to vote first, but the Lions can't be on on Thanksgiving any more.

It doesn't do any good to try to state the case diplomatically that it's undemocratic for two states to have a "right" to have more input to the process than anyone else in the country. Nobody in power is going to upset the status quo.

The fact that 4 states have been privileged will have far more impact on our nominee than the fact that two states have been excluded.

The short term solution that some people wanted is apparently that we stick with what we have because it's "historical," knowing that it isn't fair.

The long term solution is that we have equitable primaries. The only way to get from here to there is with a bit of pain. I wish that weren't true, but I see it that way. I actually hope that next election, more states rebel - that MI and FL serve as an example for them. If enough states did that in one year, the system would suffer a strong enough blow that they would have to restructure the entire primary so everyone's voice is equal.

As someone who's voice doesn't count in this cycle, I still have to support what's happening. I see it as going on strike. Short term, we lose our paychecks, long term, we demand more rights. We need more other states to join the strike in solidarity.

Well then ... what IS the way to do it. This confrontation is inevitable. This confrontation is the only way to break the stranglehold of New Hampshire and Iowa. If the Democratic convention refuses to seat the Michigan and Florida delagates, thats a great way to tank their candidates in these states.

Perhaps the standoff could be remedied by a promise to go to a rotating schedule if Michigan and Florida in future years if they reschedule their primaries.

polls at 40%?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

That would rotate.

Starting with Las Vegas and one of the Carolinas, I think....

Maybe I won't even vote in the general. What a brilliant fucking strategy for dealing with swing states.

:argh:

if things tighten up in the primaries, the lack of these delegates could really make a difference. Could it possibly ultimately lead to a brokered convention? In a close primary, it very well could be. Interesting possibilities.

but don't have the balls to punish Bush.

Now I'm really wondering how the spin on right reductions wil play out in a Hillary admin. ?

The congressional Dems are not the ones taking the delegates away.

But thanks for trying, anyway, mad. :hi:

NGU.

It is scary.

People will assume, and rightly so, that Democrats are afraid of punishing Bush, but not each other. Whether it is Nancy Pelosi who are responsible for punishing the delegates or Democratic staff work Aunt Margaret. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Democrats are demonstrating backbone with each other, but not with Bush. That, in addition to your unwarranted condescension, is what's scary.

The point I am making is meant for a one-dimensional perspective that not only is relevant, but also can most certainly be easily construed by anyone outside the Democratic Party. Do we differentiate the Republicans who have different roles within their party? How many of us will refuse to vote for Ron Paul ONLY because he is a Republican?

People will assume, and rightly so, that Democrats are scared of punishing Bush, but not each other. Deal with it.

It's all just a game to the politicians.

We now have the very real possibility of a backlash on whoever the Dem candidate will be. How many big states will now be able to say, "This isn't our candidate, we didn't have the opportunity to vote."?

Why do they wish to protect Iowa and NH?

Boneheads.

the congressional levels. The MDP would not listen to it's membership...and they will suffer for it. Watch the decline in membership.

on the whole picture? I'm not saavy about how this will play out.

First, this doesn't mean that we can't vote in the actual election. It just means we don't get a say in who the democratic nominee is.

Second, I think our freaking morons in our state need to be kicked out of their jobs immediately. They just screwed over every democrat in the state because they THINK having an early primary will make any sort of difference. It's bull. It's stupid and they screwed up and they need to get OUT.

Third, none of it really matters anyway because the dnc's sponsors have probably already decided on hillary.

When the only real candidate can't get above 2 or 3 percent... they've done a good job on the abandonallhope thing.

As for Iowa... Iowa is probably in the front because it's a crap state that nobody cares about except come election time and has some specifically different issues compared to other states. Corn or something.

New hampshire is just small, that's why it's in the front. I think.

I'm all for letting them go first. It doesn't really matter. The only thing that matters is now we have NO SAY at all. Morons. (I mean MI's dem leaders.. sigh)

Hillary could very well NOT be our nominee. Have you looked at Iowa lately? Also, I hope you aren't one those "Kucinich is the only real Democrat" types, because that shit is getting seriously old. Especially since he is currently the only candidate to have considered a Republican running mate.

I despise the DLC, but the conflict is between the DNC and the state Democratic parties.

...knarled fingers around the DNC leadership's throats forcing the issues into conflicts. I smell dead fish rotting from the head!

not the DNC.

Florida, who is playing for the other side.

And Michigan, who is being USED by the DLC to
give the APPEARANCE of a Clinton juggernaut.

Edwards would have given Clinton a good race
here. Obama would have split her vote, and
the Unions would have tacitly backed Edwards.

Bonior is VERY popular here....

On Edit:

David Bonior is Edwards campaign manager. He is
the former minority whip and a BELOVED Michigan
politician.

Let's see everyone (state) is moving there date up! next one will move it to dec 25th? or Nov 25th?
etc ..why not today Dec 1 - this is becoming a joke - they DLC set a date's 4 states can have it - before Feb 4 - did you State not get the MEMO...and moved it ahead....anyways and now they will lose there vote.

I,m glad they did - because next thing we will be voting nov (next yr) on nov 5 - we might be voting for two years ahead...got to stop - some-were

Now if they (your State) would have applied to be the 1st state wanting to hold primaries - maybe next time they can be one of the first states - i think it (Loss of Money/etc) back-fired and now there crying over spilled milk

they knew the rules, and decided not to play by them.

Somehow I feel betrayed--blame who you want, the result is still the same.

:shrug: :shrug:

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.



Why didn't people jump his butt? :shrug:

Brewer, Levin, all of those jerks at the top of the Michigan Dem leadership. They didn't listen to us, they treat us like crap (oh, they like us to work hard, but forget listening to or respecting us in the rank and file at all), and they need to go.

Starting w/getting rid of this Iowa/New Hampshire voting first BS. Personally I would have the most diverse (not largest) racially/culturally states voting first to get a better ideal on what the country wants.

Why not now? After this next election there may not be another.

will cost us the elections in November.

Howard Dean's greatest folly was to push as "reform" a nominating system that kept the ethanol peddlers of Iowa and New Hampshire as first in the nation.

I am glad Hillary kept her name on the ballot in Florida and Michigan and when it becomes necessary for her to have her MI and FL delegates to win the nomination, she will ask the convention delegates to sit the MI and FL delegations. Howard Dean's defrocking as DNC chair will soon follow, and all the other idiots that supported his Stalinist disenfranchising of Democrats in FL and MI.

It's not that I want Hillary to win the nomination, but I think that punishing the Democratic voters in Michigan and Florida for what their elected officials have done is the biggest Democratic Party fuck up in modern times.

IndianaGreen. How dare they once again screw up the election. Guess our fears are coming true. They want to lose.

I don't WANT my state's delegates to help seat Hillary.

Not when the other candidates played fair.

Don't worry about us.

WE will "punish" the REAL wrong-doers.

is New Hampshire. It's state law, they come first no matter what. New Hampshire would come first, even if it had to move its primary up to 2007. I think , Iowa is somewhat less blatant.

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You're always good for a laugh, IG.

There will likely be delegates at the convention
who dislike this decision.

the people on the DNC who voted to disenfranchise Michigan
should lose their jobs.

They all supported this undemocratic travesty!

I do expect a credentials challenge at the convention and I predict that the delegates will vote to override the DNC lapdogs in the Credentials Committee and sit the full Florida and Michigan delegations.

Michigan voters should go to the Primary and vote "Uncommitted".

When the National Convention seats the Michigan delegation (and the Florida delegation, which it most certainly WILL do)then all candidates can be represented, not just those on the MI ballot.

Also, there's the possibility of write-in votes but that gets complicated.