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Eugene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 07:46 AM
Original message
EU leaders sign landmark treaty
Source: BBC News

Last Updated: Thursday, 13 December 2007, 12:18 GMT

EU leaders sign landmark treaty

EU leaders are signing a treaty in the Portuguese capital,
Lisbon, that is expected to greatly alter the way members
govern themselves.

The treaty creates an EU president and a vastly more
powerful foreign policy chief for the Union's 27 nations.

At the same time the document scraps veto powers in
many policy areas.

It is a replacement for the EU constitution abandoned
following French and Dutch opposition. EU leaders insist
the two texts are in no way equivalent.

-snip-

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7141651.stm
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. Cool, a more modern, more efficient and more modern union.
Modern!


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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. EU - good, NAU - bad?
I think that increased European integration is a good thing. A loss of some sovereignty for individual European countries, but a gain in a brighter future for a peaceful, prosperous Europe. While there has not been a "hot" war there for over 60 years, I hope this will further diminish the possibility of conflict between European countries in the future.

Those who oppose further integration between North American countries cite differences in prosperity, culture, and language. Of course, there is much linguistic and cultural diversity within Europe as well. There is also a wide variation in economic well-being between northern and southern Europe and, now, particularly with Eastern Europe. Is there as much of a difference within Europe as there is between Mexico and the US?

Probably not, but that raises the question of what an acceptable amount of economic difference is. Is a multiple of 3 to 4 between the richest European country and the poorest in terms of per capita income acceptable, but a multiple of 10 between the US and Mexico not acceptable?
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. More consolidation of politcal power
Good ol' efficiency. Killer of diversity.
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DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Outside domination also kills diversity, though
And the more tightly the EU unifies, the more likely it is to avoid being dominated by an outside power.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yeah, it's a never ending cycle
The more the EU unifies, the more they will need to expand their reach outward, since after unification they have nowhere else to grow. What else would they do with increased power?

It's the same process that formed this country. The little twist is that the EU unification isn't requiring a war to do it, like the various wars against the people already here, and obviously the civil war. However, that's because those two world wars were carried out on the European continent, which came to be thanks to the very process you described. Multiple centers of power expanding and dominating the other, in an effort to create sameness, predictability, etc, on an ever increasing scale. That's the general trend of history for the last few thousand years, so, no reason it should stop now.
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