Blair converts to Catholicism

Source: Yahoo News

LONDON (Reuters) - Former Prime Minister Tony Blair, now the Middle East peace envoy, has converted from Anglicanism to Roman Catholicism, the head of Britain's Catholics said on Saturday.
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Blair's conversion has long been expected. He had a private meeting with Pope Benedict at the Vatican in June and has been receiving spiritual preparation for the conversion from Mark O'Toole, Murphy-O'Connor's private secretary.




Read more: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20071222/tuk-uk-britain-blair-fa6b408_1.html

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South America was sorted by the Catholics long ways back and as such were they probably overall responsible for more deaths than any subsequent recognised wars. Maybe he's now on a mission to convert the Middle East by subjugation.

Burning on the Grate

Hey Tony, will God give you a pass on Iraq now?

now, because of all the "infidels" his work has killed. Crusades and Catholicism go hand in hand. :sarcasm:

Henry VIII, Elizabeth I and the Cromwells were responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Irish men and women.

But go ahead and giglle. Even bigots need a laugh now and then

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It's amazing how every time the slaughter of the Irish Catholics by the British is brought up here, DUers show up to defend it.

Bring on the anti-catholic bigotry!!!

forgive him but will God?

I've also heard of "recovering alcoholics", but that's not quite in the same league...

you know they ARE responsible for all the earth's ills. :sarcasm:

Their history is full of wars and political horror. They killed many female herbalists (burning them at the stake calling them "witches") so they could get the remedies for themselves and have power over healing. Cures may have been lost forever.

They tried to stop truth and science for their own power...and to make their religion look good. The earth is flat. Remember how Galileo suffered? The most recent outrage against science is: No we won't allow Stem Cell research. They abuse young boys, etc. and hide it.

In the name of their church tyrants killed people. They didn't stop it...like Hitler. Yes they did apologize many years later.

I'd say even today their flock should be watching they don't support clergy who are corrupt and greedy. It is easy for clergy to support politicians who may make them wealthy and powerful. However, you do lose your soul and credibility as a church leader under God. Not to mention damnation in hell when you die.

People have a right to question any politician regarding their religion when it impacts the rest of us (who aren't of that religious group) since they may be taking our tax dollars to do what we don't want. It's not a witch hunt for any certain religious group. Since many religious groups think they should rule as a theocracy instead of the people of the democracy, it has caused concerns.

I'd say religion should be kept out of the government discussion and agenda. The Constitution says it should not be part of government (since in the past it ruined democracy). It should not be an issue unless there is danger to our democracy by clergy. I'd like to say it is not but today's candidates brought it to the discussion as part of their mandate and agenda.

Many 3rd world countries live in poverty from over population. This is a policy set by the ruling religious leaders. Religion and government are one. Up until recently abortion and birth control was illegal. Even divorce a sin.

To think they are bringing any religious conversion by their power and words is plain arrogance. 90% of the country is already Christan. The rest are allowed to worship as they please in our democracy. So why is there so much panic? Church attendance down? Their coffers empty? What ever the reason it is about greed and power not democracy. They are bad citizens and God might not be too happy with them using him for their own self interest either.

n/t

but like Islamics, RW Protestants, etc. they can be. You can't wipe clean any man just because he hides behind a religious group. You don't get into heaven that way...at least that's what I learned. It's your life and deeds here no earth. Tony can't brag about many of them.

of all religions is filled with wars and political horror. It's most definitely not a Catholic thing. At the time of the Crusades - the entire world was ruled by conquest and military power. No one is free of guilt.

Go figure. :shrug:

Clement VII excommunicated Henry in 1538.

He wasn't a very good catholic. :)
Just when it was convenient to him. ;)

Well, the anti-catholic lobby does apparently want to claim him as their own. :sarcasm:

What with them being such noble, stalwart christians and all.

And when Catholics get together with the other Christians to bash Jews and Muslims and Hindus, etc, it's as though the pot and the kettle have decided to call the cast-iron skillet, that bucket of tar over there, and this pile of coal black.

But I am a decent, upstanding, moral, and most important, ethical agnostic who doesn't need threats of damnation or promises of eternal reward in order to do right by people. I recognize, however, that many other folks do require some external force to keep them in line and prevent them from being beastly to their neighbours, and subscribing to a religion is the right choice for them if that's what it manages to do.

Still. I notice this and I'm not even catholic.

The Pope had England under interdict - not for the first time. Interdict was a political tool to ferment civic strife when a monarch wouldn't dance to the Pope's tune. You take a superstitious population and tell them: "sorry, but there will be no baptism, no communion, no marriage, no extreme unction, no nothing until further notice," and you've got a potential disaster on your hands.

In refusing to kiss and make up with Rome, and in coming up with his own option to opiate the people, Henry broke Rome's political power as surely as the printing press weakened the Church's hold on the general populace.

Of course, she did tell her parish priest to go fuck himself. I love my Grandma!!!

They just aren't Roman Catholic. Henry VIII was more a "real" Catholic than most American RCs.

I wouldn't have thought so.

which was pretty surprising to me. :) He wasn't very good to catholics in his country, but then again, he wasn't good to some protestants.

Not my fav english king. ;)

Just not Roman Catholic.

Henry just wanted: the authority instead of the Pope, the wealth of the monasteries and convents poured into his own coffers, and Anne Boleyn as Queen. He was very, very Catholic (even though Boleyn was quite the Reformer!).

n/t

Blair thinks going religious will wipe all the blood of innocent Iraqis and British soldiers from his hands. Is there a saying that goes, "religion is the last refuge of scoundrels"? Anyway, it fits Blair. The next thing for Blair is a seat with The Carlyle Group following Thatcher and John Major.

Religion is the midway refuge of a psychotic.

Do not post messages that are inflammatory, extreme, divisive, incoherent, or otherwise inappropriate. Do not engage in anti-social, disruptive, or trolling behavior. Do not post broad-brush, bigoted statements.

as bigotry and known fact are mutually exclusive. Since when could known truth be otherwise classified ?

Sure, let's post pics of genocidal thugs and have a good chuckle, shall we? If you have any knowledge of Anglo-Irish history, you would realize that this is a foull and offensive thing to say.

Anti-Catholicism is apparently the acceptable bigotry of the oh-so-enlightened elite.

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I've found catholics to be some of the nicest people around. Maybe learn to project less.

Germans tend to be big people.

Also, I'm not sure whether William Donovan is Catholic. Does the Nazi Pope have something to do with the long-dead founder of the OSS? Enquiring minds want to know.
:tinfoilhat:

There's a huge difference between the hierarchy and Catholics. Some of the most progressive people on this board are Catholic. Some of DU GLBTers biggest straight allies on here are Catholics. Most of the people I love are Catholics -- and they all came and celebrated my marriage -- to another woman -- in September.

Being anti-Catholic is NO DIFFERENT t5han being anti-semitic, anti-Muslim, racist, homophobic, etc.

Lots of Irish blood has been spilled because of similar sentiments.

and that such 'differences' is sinful. Ask any Catholic bishop what they think about all those issues.

you rule.

I am in deep merde when it comes to incoherent posts. ;-)

But, Catholic bashing is an easy sport on DU, even though it's against DU rules.

When Haruka and I were married in September, the bulk of our guests (family and friends) were Republican Catholics. Not too many Freeper Catholics go to a same sex wedding, eh? Most are also pro choice and anti war.

Catholics and Mormons are fair game among many pseudoliberal sophisticates.

As does some posters kneejerk,"All priests are pedophiles" garbage.

I'm female and gay. I have a HUGE problem with the Church hierarchy. I abhor how certain bishops didn't properly handle known pedophile priests. HOWEVER: there are many good people in the Church, both amongst the Religious and the laity. Many are on here (Midlodemocrat, MrsG, etc.). A Catholic priest was invited -0- and accepted the invite and agreed to do a reading -- to our wedding.

Many choose to stay within the Church and try to emulate Christ. I respect them for that, although I can no loner do it.

(I'm not even talking about Blair, just some of the posts in this thread.)

I think the mods are just overwhelmed with the anti-religious bigotry here.

The man acted like a poodle to Bush, and desired war too much. Any man who acts in such a way has no admirable character.

As for the religious aspect, the fact that he's willing to accept that in order to speak to his God, he must speak through an intermediary, or that women can't be priests for no good reason, or any of the other goobledygook that passes for "religion" in Catholicism, tells me he's also a spiritual moron. sorry catholics...I grew up catholic. It's a bullshit story and it's a mass ritual in idiocy every Sunday mass.

" As Jesus passed on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the customs post. He said to him, "Follow me." And he got up and followed him.
10
While he was at table in his house, 7 many tax collectors and sinners came and sat with Jesus and his disciples.
11
The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples, "Why does your teacher 8 eat with tax collectors and sinners?"
12
He heard this and said, "Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do. 9
13
Go and learn the meaning of the words, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' 10 I did not come to call the righteous but sinners."



May God be with Tony Blair on his journey.

and not the Catholic Church Incorporated

The Catholic Church most assuredly does not = faithful devotion to Jesus Christ. My beef is with organized religion in general, and with the Catholic Church in particular. The Church and its rituals are bullshit acts. What matters is your personal connection to God and how you behave according to your own moral standards, Biblical or otherwise inspired.

AHEM...

both supposedly being very devout...but I never believed it. I wonder if Blair is feeling very guilty about what he and Bush have done in collusion. It may be that he felt the need for confession...or it might be something else that has more to do with worry about how he and Bush will be prosecuted for war crimes in the coming years. Perhaps it's a way to diffuse some of the bad publicity coming his way for him to publicly convert making it appear he is deeply committed to religion. The blood of innocents is on both Blair and Bush's hands. Hopefully he will atone for what he's done in his new Peace Envoy role.

Good luck to him, though.

That man belongs in front of the Hague along with Bush. He helped him lie us into war...remember the Downing Documents? He's no liberal or Labor Party guy.

They brought Conservatives into the Labor Party just like the Democrats did to ours. They are globalists, liars, etc. They give good speeches. They did genocide in Afghanistan and Iraq. Good greif...they're evil.

And leaving Anglicanism when it's the majority religion of his nation wouldn't be good publicity. I'm guessing this is sincere.

doesn't forgive murder and genocide even if he were "sincere" about it.

Sheesh.

:eyes:

You may have issues with the Catholic Church but some people find this interesting.

This is the same as a Brittany story or a missing white women story. Tony Blair will be a SMALL FART in history, why in the fucking world should this be an "interesting or important" news story? Yeah, I guess you and 10 others might find something "funny" or "interesting" in it, but for all the rest of us; "who gives a fuck". And by the way, an awful lot of people have "issues" with the Catholic church, I am definitely not in the minority on this issue.

And I "give a fuck" about stories involving former heads of government. It's posted on LBN, I read LBN, and I find it interesting. You may not and that's fine.

This is not about the reader's belief; it's about Blair's.

Continue your ranting if you feel the need...I'm going grocery shopping.

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had he converted years ago, he may never have risen to prime minister because of the way Anglicanism is embraced in British law and political practice. That's why it's newsworthy, if only mildly so on this side of the Atlantic.

would've been cause to stop him from being Prime Minister. I've never been aware of any such issues here on that subject but stand to be corrected.

There is some suggestion that while not directly prohibited it would be highly unlikely. The suggestion that Blair may have delayed his conversion as a political move isn't that far-fetched. It's similar to the way politicians delay divorces or coming out or other potentially damaging private decisions to preserve their political careers.

NO WAY he would have been elected.

Despite the assiduous efforts of a vocal minority, Anglicans and Catholics are still allowed in the Democratic party and still welcome to post on DU.

Tony Blair, as the British Prime Minister, was in charge of appointing Anglican Bishops, so it's kind of interesting that he's converting now that he's out of office.

That man has been a disaster.

I haven't heard much criticism of Williams. Can you provide any example? Thanks.

I guess catering to fundamentalist homophobes is the heart of it all--the Jeffery John fiasco, coddling Nigeria & Co. while attempting to punish The Episcopal Church, etc.

He's enough to make me miss George Carey, who, of course, was a reactionary buffoon, but a sincere one. Williams has sold out every progressive ideal he once had.

...then again, how could he not be?

The Wikipedia article about him quoted critics as saying that William's big problem is that he forgets he's Archbishop. What a disappointment. Kudo's to Bishop Tutu for his mea culpa on the church's record on homosexuality... where was Williams' leadership when it was needed?

When the fundamentalists saw how easy it was to roll him, they decided to go for broke.

Political implications would probably have been pretty serious while he was still in office. Now as a "civilian", he's free to do as he wishes, without that baggage.

Maybe he's afraid of going to hell after helping destroy Iraq.

Anglicans are just Catholic-lite after all.

They always recant in their final hours. Too bad all those dead Iraqis won't have the luxury.

All of the religion bashing on here gets tiresome. Blair is free to believe or not believe whatever he wants.

and my observation that Catholics spend more time on their knees.

with creeky knees. I know.

Quite the workout for each Sunday eucharist.

I still haven't really gotten used to all the books. As a child, in Catholic school, we were so drilled in every word and movement of the mass that needing a book to follow along seems so strange to me! Of course, it's probably a terrific idea, but between that and the hymnal, you do need a certain amount of coordination!

We had all the moves down by the time we were confirmed at 10 or 11.:D

Thanks for the PM!

Than many RC masses!

I swam the other way, myself, but especially when his wife and children are RCC, I can understand this. The worship isn't terribly different from what he'd been raised with in CoE, anyway.

But not terribly.

As far as the authority of Rome and matters hierarchical, of course. Beyond that, there isn't a hard and fast line, as the Anglican Church was really created as a middle way between the RCC and Protestantism. Many Anglicans hold to what would be considered very "Catholic" (big c) theology. Many do not. There isn't a requirement though, for exactly what one must believe. It's a bit looser than the RCC in that way. Had Blair known a very Anglo-Catholic type of CoE in his upbringing, joining the RCC would likely not feel like a terribly different fit.

Personally, even as a child, I disliked the whole "because I said so" type of top-down authoritarianism that was such a part of the RCC. I knew so many terrific religious (and a few not so terrific), but in the bigger picture, I never accepted that a group of old men in Rome could determine what I ought to subscribe to, or how I ought to act. I'm far more comfortable with the democratic organization of the Episcopal Church. But I do love the liturgy, and it's only slightly different in my Episcopal church from what I grew up with in the RCC.

and he converted because of her? Maybe he didn't in the past because he would not have been elected Prime Minister in Protestant (Anglican) England?

What's in it for him now to covert to Catholic? The Catholic church has increased Britain at an alarming rate. Even in Scotland. Most recently in Ireland where they are allowing many Polish immigrants.

I doubt it is for Tony's soul. Tony does everything for his own self interest. Including supporting Bush's story\lies about WMD. We went to war illegally and they get the oil. We go into debt while they buy us up..including our oil and energy resources(Alaskan oil, gold mines, forests, Niagara Falls power and the N.East power grid, etc.).

The British are allies not freinds. They've (European elite) been trying to ruin our democracy for hundereds of years. The difference today is our government has been allowing it. They don't look after our best interest against these powerful enemies.

Behind the scenes are religious wars going on for power by the various religious organizations. What else is new to the world?

What a B-word!

BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, those western Europeans are such facists.

There is nothing 'in it' for Tony now politically. He's not going to stand for PM again. It is true that converting while in office would probably have been a disadvantage, and may be why he delayed it. But, unlike most British politicians (including Anglican, Catholic, Jewish, and explicitly secular), Tony *is* a bit of a religious nut.

And neither Catholics nor any other religion are seriously overrunning Britain. We are a much more secular country than the USA, and only 33% of the population are seriously affiliated with any religion. I am puzzled by your reference to Polish immigrants in Ireland (I assume you mean Northern Ireland, as the Republic of Ireland isn't part of the UK). There are Polish immigrants in all parts of the UK, though not enough to make a massive difference to our religious make-up; and Northern Ireland has always had lots of Catholics, and Protestants, who unfortunately were until recently at violent odds with each other.

'The British are allies not freinds. They've (European elite) been trying to ruin our democracy for hundereds of years.'

That was undoubtedly the case in, oh, around 1776. Right now, it seems to me that it's the BUSH government having too much influence on OURS, with Blair encouraging it.

But you're off the list once you marry a Catholic.

Guess he'd rather be elected to an office.

Or was something already said about his soul being damned?

and remain perfect, huh?

Didn't appear to me as being very smart when he became buddies with Bush. He may be smart but he is very corrupt. Did you read any of Greg Palast regarding corrupt Blair? The American newspapers and CSPAN kiss up to the liar. Why is that?

Hail, Georgie, in your face, the Lord ain't with thee...
Curs-ed art thou among people
and cursed is the fruit of thy bombs--hatred.
Evil Georgie, spawn of Satan, begone from Iraq
now and when the oil starts pumping again, amen.

500x

:)

WTF?? Blair is an idiot.

In that they had Blair converting because he knew he was going down for war crimes and he thought that he really, really needed to be able to go to Confession.

especially when they moved into their new home - just round the corner to the large Lebanese community in the Edgware Road which Connaught Square is adjacent to.

;-)
Some high church Anglicans go to confession on a regular basis.
And yes, Anglicans consider themselves Catholics, but they are different from the members of the Anglican Catholic Church, a sect of former Anglicans who refuse to accept the ordination of women as an appropriate interpretation of scripture.

Let us get back to the regularly scheduled bashing of misinformed Catholic bashing.

That the followers of a religion, who basically established the Party we all seem to belong too are getting bashed on here. Dont forget that it was urban immigrant Catholics that basically made the modern Democratic party what it is today.

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I don't think it's a coincidence that the states with the best gay rights laws are all predominately Catholic.

John Kerry is Catholic. Thanks for NOT helping to defeat Bush in 2004. Thanks a fucking lot.

They think that GLBT rights are negotiable. So why should I support a religion that is so unfriendly - in fact, combative - to so many progressive people? I just asking for some logic. If they acted like that to people with dark skins, would you feel the same and just overlook it?

Meanwhile, Iraqi Christians who used to live in peace and prosperity under Saddam, are fleeing the country or have been driven from their homes.

As it happened during the First Crusade when the Crusaders arrived at Constantinople, anyone wearing a turban was considered an infidel and was slained, never mind that many of them were Christian.

Can we say that racism is a key component of all crusades?

The Crusades were launched as a response to Arab/Muslim incursions into Europe. Prior to that, nobody saw the need for war.

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:tinfoilhat:

The Crusades--officially speaking, that is--were a response to an urgent plea for help from the Christian Byzantine Emperor in Constantinople whose lands were about to be invaded by Muslim forces. There's nothing "revisionist" about that, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the European conquest of the Americas.

Unofficially, Pope Urban and a good many others saw an opportunity to get a lot of uncontrollable, bellicose younger sons and unattached fighting men out of their own back yard at a time when the feudal system was still very loose, nation-states had not yet formed and the authority of the Church had proven inadequate to keep blue-blooded thugs from the joys of rapine and murder.

after the crusades, military action would have actually been justified. However, the real reason was worse. Bear in mind that it had been more than 370 years since the Muslim armies invaded Spain by the time Urban II declared the 1st Crusade in 1095. It had much more to do with the fact Europe was killing itself at an alarming rate with intra-Nicene violence and Urban wanted a foreign war to bring peace to Christendom.

Now before anyone makes an anti-Christian slam about Christians being more violent than anyone else, the whole reason the first Crusade was successful was because the Muslim world was beset by civil war and strife just like Europe. Hell, earlier in the same century there were a series of intense civil wars in Moorish Spain.

Besides all the stuff he's done with his life, that is.

Hey what do I care whether Blair is Anglican or Catholic- it makes him happy.

Mazel Tov.

Opus Dei is what? 50,000 members? The odds are low.

Yuk.

Roman Catholics. Some of us are, like myself, are Franciscan Catholics. We are against this Iraq War. We have strong believes in feeding the hungry and taking care of the child that is in this world not just one that is in a womb ect... Our Priest from our Church and other Friars go every other day into downtown Portland and Protest the Iraq War as a Occupation of Iraq. We see the Pope as just the President/Leader of The Catholic Church and that is all. The Pope to us is not God. He is just a man. So painting all Catholics with the same paint brush is wrong. So on this Christmas Eve, whether you are a believer or not, You are all my brother and sister and I wish for all of us Peace and Love on Earth.

Lord, make me a channel of thy peace;
that where there is hatred, I may bring love;
that where there is wrong, I may bring the spirit of forgiveness;
that where there is discord, I may bring harmony;
that where there is error, I may bring truth;
that where there is doubt, I may bring faith;
that where there is despair, I may bring hope;
that where there are shadows, I may bring light;
that where there is sadness, I may bring joy.
Lord, grant that I may seek rather to comfort than to be comforted;
to understand, than to be understood;
to love, than to be loved.
For it is by self-forgetting that one finds.
It is by forgiving that one is forgiven.
It is by dying that one awakens to eternal life.
Amen.

The only time his words are infallible is when he speaks ex-cathedra which is very rare.

meaningless, except to aficionados.