Churches unite to condemn greed

Source: The Australian News


RELIGIOUS leaders yesterday called for compassion and a return to the true meaning of the Christmas story in a world beset by material greed, selfishness, conflict and environmental degradation.

From Pope Benedict XVI in Rome to the head of the Anglican church in Australia, Archbishop Phillip Aspinall, world figures delivered Christmas messages with a similar theme of the need to eschew materialism, for equality of opportunity and respect for the dispossessed. "Man is so preoccupied with himself, he has such urgent need of all the space and all the time for his own things, that nothing remains for others - for his neighbour, for the poor, for God," Pope Benedict said.

He recalled the story of Christ's birth, when "there was no room in the inn" for the baby Jesus.

"And the richer men become, the more they fill up all the space by themselves. And the less room there is for others."



Read more: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22971975-2702,00.html

It seems that every televangelist's are preaching that being RICH is a gift from GOD and that its OK!!

if you would believe what the fundie xians claim, at least.

and if you render now, you'll receive this free Brazilian Power Crystal, while supplies last!

Since he was Jewish, it is unforgiveable to call Jesus a swine.

A greedy, war-mongering asshole, maybe, but not a swine.

:sarcasm:

is the worst. He preaches the "gospel of wealth". My semi-fundie B in L is a big fan.

This stuff is right from the turn of the century.... the twentieth century.

It took two Roosevelt presidents to get some leveling of the playing field, and now we're headed back to the Robber Barons.

The Gospel of Wealth, or sometimes the Gospel of Success, was the term for a notion promoted by many successful businessmen that their massive wealth was a social benefit for all. The Gospel of Wealth was a softer and more palatable version of Social Darwinism.

Russell H. Conwell, a Baptist minister, became an extremely wealthy man by delivering his stock lecture, "Acres of Diamonds", to paying audiences. Conwell stressed the idea that wealth was available to all people. God was responsible for directing wealth to those who could use it for beneficial purposes. Conwell, delivered his talk more than 6,000 times.

See prior thread:

Jesus' real birthday was around the 15th day of Tishrei during the Jewish holiday of Sukkot
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=161360&mesg_id=161360

Amen brother and PASS THE PLATE!

NT!

According to lore, Jesus and the apostles gave away all belongings to the poor. Pat Robertson, the Pope, and all the other heads and religious leaders can start a "new" tradition starting today, Christmas day, by giving all their wealth to poor people the world over. NAW, AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN, THE GREEDY MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!

Allow me to explain it once more.

YOU are too greedy. Not them. YOU! YOU will be much happier if you givem them your money. They will use it to buy Lear Jets and fly around giving what's left over to the poosr and needy. Trust them, they would not lie. After all, nobody who works in Jesus' name has ever lied.

of horrible thing and still be "Christian." They got rid of that because they do not want to be accountable for their greed.

I got a major problem with a god who predestined Windoze :cry:

NT!

Joel bullshits about Je$u$, but his real god is Ayn "as is mine" Rand. Joel preaches the "Get Yours and Fuck Everyone Else" philosophy that his fellow liars Franky Graham, James Robison, Jan and Paul Crouch, Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn, Marilyn Hickey and their pals do!

Funny how that works.

The Vatican has been called the largest single holding Company in the world (This was from the 1970s when Penn-Central still existed and was called the Second largest Holding company, even while it was in Bankruptcy). The Vatican has massive holdings, buildings, Churches, Monasteries, and other buildings and land. Can these be sold? Most of these land holdings the answer is NO, either for the fact no one wants them OR they will lose their purpose (i.e. Sell a Monastery for what and to whom? Sell a Church can convert it to what? A Fire hall (Done in my neighborhood when a Presbyterian Church moved to a larger Building, the old Church was Sold to the City which converted it to a Fire Station, the basement windows still have religious symbols on them, but all other religious symbols were replaced)?. Apartments (St Michaels in Pittsburgh is undergoing such a conversion, it is a copy of a Rhine Vally Church, built on the Monongahela Escapement on the South Side Slopes, it was a small Church and the local Diocese wanted to consolidate it churches and it was one of the Smallest, so it was consolidated and the building sold off, with a huge outcry not only from parish members but anyone from the south side for it was a historically significant church). Old monasteries and Converts can be sold if no longer used, but most are still in use. If you sell them off where do the old Monks and Sisters go?

I mention the above conversions to show why it is hard to sell of Churches. You have opposition not only from Parishioners but from other in the Community which see the Building as an asset. Converting it ti other purposes is hard, except under the most unusual of circumstances. Yet, Churches and Monasteries are the two main forms of "Wealth" held by the Catholic Church, the main reason it is called the number one holding company in the world.

The second largest source of "Wealth" in the church is the property located in the Vatican and its museums. How do you sell it off AND make sure it is still viewable by people? The Vatican itself has a least one "Profane" (i.e. Non-Religious) Museum to store such art objects so people can view them, do you want to stop such observation (and copying)? The answer for most people is NO.

Thus, while the Church has a lot of assets, the assets it has to operate on is quite limited. I mentioned the Penn-Central as the Second largest holding company, it was in bankruptcy in the the 1970s. Conrail took over its rail lines, Penn Central then came out of Bankruptcy and started to sell off the rest of its assets. Penn-Central, like the Vatican had lots of property, but mere possession of such property could NOT produce operating revenue (Thus the Penin-Central bankruptcy). Mere possession of property does NOT mean you have cash to operate on. And the real question is how much operating revenue does the Church have? No where near its holdings, thus the Vatican may be "Land Rich" it can also be "Cash Poor" (As was the Penn-Central Railroad in the 1970s).

The hit piece you cite seems to say the Vatican has huge amount of Cash just laying around. The Vatican is rich in land and other properties, but in Cash it runs a Deficit in most years (Through it balances itself every so often so as a whole it breaks even). Thus please provide other cites as to what the Vatican holds in both properties and cash, which would be more reliable then the hit piece you provided.

If you have information contrary to the info in these "hit pieces," you should provide it.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,250016-1,00.html

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,833509,00.html

http://www.cephasministry.com/catholic_vaticans_billions_1.html

But the ONLY site you gave on your previous posting was clearly a hit piece, claiming wealth that probably does NOT exist. Your reference to the Time articles goes into the many layers of "wealth" the church has (i.e. its Schools, its Collages, its Monasteries etc), and how the church, like any corporation, divides itself to protect the whole form problems in one part (Thus Dioceses are independent of the Vatican for financial purposes, even through the Pope names the Bishop, but while the Pope can name a Bishops the Pope has no power of Removal, thus when a Bishop really screw up the Pope "Promotes" him to same dead end job in the Vatican as the only way the Pope can remove the Bishop). Such pieces are good, but never go into the details needed.

As to the last piece, it is from a Clearly Anti-Catholic Site. Some such sites can give good light into the Vatican if that is their real intention (i.e. they want to improve the Church NOT attack it), but that does NOT Appear to be the case with this particular Source, see their home page for details:
http://www.cephasministry.com/index_catholic_files.html

Thus I have to be careful on the Sources I rely on. Some are suspect as either to anti-Catholic or pro-catholic to be reliable. What I want is something that gives me FACTS that can be relied on. Some of the most reliable are Catholic Sites NOT in full step with the Vatican (Through you have to watch them for their own Agendas). To a degree the Vatican itself gives out some details (But keep a good bit of their finance secret). Thus I would have to guess, but avoid the Sites that claim the Vatican is the son of the Devil or in Secret Cohorts with the Jews (or other group) to take over the world.

The idea that the Vatican runs a cash deficit is laughable.

In fact it looks like the only Currency the Vatican issues is for collectors, in general use the Italian Euro (and previously the Italian Lira) was the currency of exchange in the Vatican.

http://www.eurocoins.co.uk/vatican.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Vatican_City

http://www.cathtelecom.com/news/201/15.php

A 1997 Article on Vatican Finance:
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=5245

A 2006 Article showing a $12.5 million Surplus:
http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2006/07/13/vaticans_finances_best_in_8_years/

Remember even a Minimum wage worker will earn over 1/2 million Dollars in his or her lifetime, so $12.5 million equals the lifetime earnings of just 25 minimum wage earners ($5.15 per hour times 2080 hours in a year <40 hours a week times 52 weeks equal 2080> times 50 years equals $535,600, my point is $12.5 million is not much money for any organization). I know minimum wage has increased but I used the old minimum wage to keep the number as low as possible.

Prior to 1996 the Vatican ran deficits, small deficits but deficits, this lead to reforms in the early 1990s that reflected the last eight years of surpluses.

"We'll pay our attorney's fees with our looks in the future."

"Now, to count the money!"

(I don't know how to make a "check/bill landing in the plate" noise.)

has been invented and fostered to facilitate the exploitation of the poor, one appreciates the irony. But then again, this is a sign of the times. As Marx predicted, the inversion of reality now prevails. An idiot is a genius. A greedy little man rules the world. And what is said is just the inverse of what is being done. All the time and about anything. Amen.

is this the same church that passes the plate to pay off the victims of its pedophile priests?

After all, he's surrounded by enough priceless paintings about it to understand, isn't he?

Some of you people would do Jack Chick proud.

http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/SaintOfDay/default.asp?id=1103

Raebrek!!!

On edit knew made more sense then new.