Bhutto died after hitting sun roof (PIC)

Source: CNN

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- Benazir Bhutto died as a result of a fractured skull after hitting her head on part of her car's sun roof, not as a result of a bullet or bomb shrapnel, a spokesman for Pakistan's Interior Ministry said Friday.

Nothing entered the opposition leader's head, said spokesman Brigadier Javed Iqbal Cheema.

At a news conference, Cheema showed images of Bhutto in a car, standing up through an open sunroof, looking out at the crowd as she was about to be driven away.

When the gunshots rang out and the explosion occurred, Bhutto "fell down or perhaps ducked" and apparently hit her head on a lever, Cheema said, adding that the lever was stained with blood. Watch how investigators think Bhutto died »



Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/12/28/pakistan.friday/index.html

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This is from Yahoo news-- bumped her head?

A handout released on Friday by Pakistan's Interior Ministry shows images of Benazir Bhutto's vehicle. Interior ministry spokesman Javed Iqbal Cheema said on Friday Bhutto had not been shot, nor had she been hit by shrapnel from the blast but she had been killed when the force of the explosion crashed her head against a lever on the sun-roof of her vehicle.
(Interior Ministry/Handout/Reuters)

not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing with the OP

I bang my head on the door of my car every few years. Once or twice, I slammed into the door hard enough to nearly knock myself out. I never bled. Ever.

Last night, I slipped on some water covered ice on my back deck. I cracked my head on a metal table on the deck. Hurt like hell, but my skull managed to stay intact.

So ... we have three bullets shot at her car, followed by an enormous explosion. But she ducked down so fast that she crushed her own skull and died.

No.

Severing the artery and her bleeding to death.

... even if true, changes NOTHING.

including two double concussions, one that left me punch drunk for a week. All were from hitting the ice very hard with my head.

I never bled and I certianly didn't die. Often I could barely stand up afterword for a few moments but death wasn't near. That was only a few years back and I was in my late 30's.

I don't trust this news piece at all.

not really but I know Bret Favre got over his bouts of head banging....lokk where he is today.

My coccyx was probably broken, but more significantly, i felt a "charge" or shock race up my spine. Didn't realize I could have a concussion. I went home and fell asleep for several hours. I was happy I woke up at all.

You knocked yourself against the door of your car just hard enough to knock yourself sensless but not near as hard as a plastique explosive you moron!

No kidding.

You sound as if you believe the ever-changing story from Musharraf's henchmen. The story changes every few hours as to how she died. First it was the explosion, then a gunshot wound and now she bumped her head causing massive bleeding.

Give me a break! Are you part of the Pakistan military?

apparently he was called upon to come up with the "magic sun roof" theory.

I don't know how many posters here remember Specter's "magic bullet" theory in the JFK assassination.

That's great! And the story here continues to change just as in the JFK assassination.

1.5 second stop in mid air while changing direction was a little extreme; Not even taking into account the spent bullet that put on weight.

Magic Sun Roof Theory. I like you, dflprincess

"......the force of the explosion crashed her head against a lever on the sun-roof of her vehicle......"

As a veterinarian, I know a fair bit about traumatic injuries, and after all, bone is bone and flesh is flesh. No magical differences between human and animal bones and flesh........

I find the explosion/head trauma on metal COMPLETELY believable. That handle sticks WAY out where the bolt attaches it and the blood is seen.

I also suspect her chances of surviving the injury would have been MUCH greater in the US with a crack trauma team and neurosurgeons.

now saying that she hit her head on her own. They are not saying her head was forced against the handle by the force of the blast. :eyes:

Jay

So a garbled message is possible.

Kestrel, who the heck are you to believe the Pakistan government and defend everything they say? Do you have some inside information? Are you with the ISI?

law suit to me

;)

... isn't it?

Was an autopsy performed?

A relatively small wound can leave a big puddle of blood.

And if that IS her xray (kinda matches up nicely with the shape of the bloody handle IMHO) the wound was VERY deep and massive.

Bombs tend to throw people around with considerable force. I find the scenario plausible.

Sometimes there's a lot of blood, sometimes not. I find this completely believable.

And, as for the eyewitnesses, ask any officer covering an accident scene, try and find any two 'witnesses' who saw the same thing. It's nearly impossible.

Whether the force of the blast accelerated something into her or accelerated her into something else, it was the explosion that killed her. So nobody's "off the hook" for this crime.

CNN had a video on their site yesterday of a photographer who was a mere 50 feet from her car taking pictures. He took a picture, looked up at her, and he heard three distinct shots. She disappeared inside the car, and then the explosion.

...but they weren't mortal; it was the impact with the lever that did her in.

:shrug:

is exactly who did this. Can't believe the Pakistani govt and I'll only believe Seymour Hersch or a very few other reporters on this one. I don't believe that * wanted this to happen or conspired to murder Bhutto.

If Benezir was thrown into the lever by the blast, she must have not been shielded by anything. The blast waves would radiate exactly as the shrapnel would have radiated.

If she had been thrown into the lever by the blast wave, she would have been full of shrapnel.

So, you think that a person who doubts official versions of the Pakistan government are all "doubting Thomases"? Explain the changing stories from the Pakistan government!

A Doubting Thomas

But what would they know?

head into the lever. That, I could believe to be possible.

in her head. Then a whole day of silence, and no report from the hospital, then all of a sudden no gunshots?
All of the witnesses heard the shots. People in the hospital confirmed two gunshot wounds. Maybe the rpoblem is if they examine the bullets, they will turn out to be military issue....

:shrug:

Even if that's the case on any of our CSI or Law and Order programs the suicide bomber and their accomplished would be tracked down and held responsible by Cain or Grisam.

we'll get even more, no doubt

the bombing/assassination attempt is still to blame.

That takes Musharef off the hook for not providing sufficient security and it sends a not so subtle message out to others: don't stick your neck out and you won't get hurt.

nt

I imagine that soon they're going to start saying that if Mrs. Bhutto had worn a seatbelt, this wouldn't have happened.

There sure are a lot of different stories being trotted out about how she died. Bullets in the neck, shrapnel, and now hitting her head on the van. How many other fictions are they going to hand out?

I find it increasingly interesting and possibly convenient that we've had three official causes of death so far.

it's pretty convenient that this story came out AFTER it was too late to check. I understand that it's Islamic practice to bury the body the next day. Are there proscriptions against exhumation?

n/t

there are going to be many stories and we will never know which one is the truth.

How convenient. Speaking of convenient, I have some ocean front property in Nebraska I'd like to sell....:eyes:

she still ultimately was killed by the bombing.

Bush, Condi, Musharraf, al Qaeda, and all assorted nuts, bolts, and terrorists.

Haven't you kept up with the news? She wasn't killed by a bombing. She was killed because she slipped and hit her head. ...Did I mention that I own some ocean front property in Montana that I would be happy to sell you for a mere 3 mil?

Lest there be any mistake. As far as I'm concerned Bush is clearly the root cause for Bhutto going back to Pakistan and dying. As they say, the buck stops at his desk whether he wants it to or not. She was shot, probably by the gun that we can see so clearly in the video on CNN. Musharraf may not be guilty but chances that he is behind this should not be ignored or underestimated. He now has a real nice escape avenue prepared to call off the elections and declare himself dictator for life without any loss of funding from the U.S.

NOBODY denies that she was killed by the bombing...

oh, brother...:eyes:

get a fucking grip, and once you've mastered that, get a fucking clue...:hi:

We couldn't have Bush being considered responsible for anything negative, now could we? :sarcasm:

1. To the contrary, there are quite a few who don't believe the official line and even if you take a limited look around you'll see them.

2. Don't use the four letter stuff around me.

3. You're an example of what DU considers a member in good standing now? That says a lot about DU.

:eyes:

call off the election. IIRC Bhutto's party had the support of at least 30% of the electorate and Nawaz Sharif's about the same. If both of their parties boycott the elections then Mush's party is the only major one left.

she was preggers with musharaf's baby even tho she never had sex with him (ne never penetrated, just oral) and uncle Dick promised to give her shooting lessons as soon as she promised never to tell that she knew OBL was and has been dead for years.

And it just didn't sit right with me.
I'm not a Dr or an expert, I'm not going to weigh in on those aspects, but it just seemed, wrong.

I was not surprised in the least to see the article this morning.Fine tuning going on.

nobody denies that.

OK. Bhutto bumped her head and dropped dead. OK.

either the "suicide bomber", "freedom fighter", "martyr" or brain dead nut job. SOmewhere they muust be dancing in the streets but I doubt we will be shown where that is happening.

How can we be sure it wasn't just a bad cold?

Maybe the government is concerned that a sniper throws suspicion on the military, thus this new "cause of death".

Basically, the spokesman for Pakistan's Interior Ministry is subtly insinuating that Bhutto was a coward. They seem to be saying that she wasn't harmed by a bullet or shrapnel, but died because she awkwardly ducked back into the car. If she had been brave enough to keep standing or coordinated enough to slip into the car, then she would be fine. :eyes:

That is just too crazy to believe.

The lies about her death are just as ridiculous.

I think this will only anger her supporters that much more.

made in China!

she has to have "fallen", "slipped", "conked her noggin"...her death simply must be tagged as something "accidental" ..something that a "forgetful, careless" woman may have ended up doing to herself by her own negligence..

To have her martyred in a violent, bloody way (like men die) just is not the "new" Islam..

She died two deaths.. the Official ..oops she fell down & killed herself (silly woman should not have stood up in a moving car)... and the one that people saw happen, and was reported in real time.. the violent one..

Over time it will be interesting to see which one ends up being the one that takes hold

but in any case, she's still dead, and Pakistan is still a shithole we will continue to pour money into

She is likely to be seen as a martyr, and thus continue to be a rallying
point. Somehow dying of a banged head doesn't quite do it.

I read a post in another thread that brought up the martyr issue. There are actually very specific guidelines in Islam about what constitutes martyrdom, kind of like the criteria the Catholic Church has for sainthood.

According to this post the hitting the head on the sunroof definitely disqualifies her from officially being a martyr. The question we should ask is who gains from her being denied martyr status.

If she merely "banged her head" on the latch, no way in hell would that have resulted in blood being projected nearly a yard away.

stated that she saw the entry and exit holes where a bullet went thru Bhutto's neck. How could a knock on a sun roof lever cause a car to be soaked with blood as well as on people standing close by.

that it focusses in and latches onto these mindless details?

She's dead. Hello? Bullet/shrapnel/sun roof latch/whatever SHE'S DEAD! Why can't the US media can't get into anything deeper or more lastingly relevent? Is this a reflection of the mindless disinterest of the American public in anything other than gory details?

The worthy questions now are what does this mean for the future of Pakistan and the region.

in the assassination. Many there believe he is behind this already, given the large threat she poses to his presidency. If the cause of death is a blow to the head, then it looks more legit that some psycho islamic extremist blew her up and the gov't had nothing to do with it.

Gunshots were heard, and a gun was seen, and an explosion happened.

So, it really doesn't matter either way exactly how she was killed. And you presume that extremists don't have or use guns?

get hurt or killed.

wouldn't the gov't hit do something else?

Drawing conclusions about the cause of death is pointless, especially since all methods were used.

I point out that it's a waste of time to focus on the method of death, and you make the case that a bullet = gov't and a bomb = extremists, therefore it isn't a waste of time. I tell you that both bullet and bomb were used so the method of death is irrelevant, and you respond by repeating yourself.

bah.

LOL!

pakistanis. also, i understand that pakistani officials have agreed to an exhumation . . . just to answer prior questions.

if the blast made her bump her head, how come the video shows her ducking into the car? wouldn't there be no such images if the bomb went off and caused her to hit the lever? just wondering . . . and assuming that one of the levers shown is the culprit. we see the bomb explosion AFTER she has disappeared into the car . . . at least that's what i remember of the video i saw.

ellen fl

and all the motives remain the same. She is dead.

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/12/28/explosion_wideweb__470x310,0.jpg

Use the "Gallery" function to see it in higher resolution:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2007/12/27/world/asia/20071227_BHUTTO_FEATURE.html

High explosives were used in the bombing. Can you imagine the force of that blast? Can you imagine what happens when that force smashes your head against a metallic object?

The explosion happened on the left side of the SUV (from Bhutto's perspective). The official report says that the wound was "just above the pinna of (the) right ear". How could shrapnel or a bullet have hit her on the right side (the shooter was also to her left)?

the location of the wound, is the same official report that dismisses the idea that bullets or shrapnel were involved. Who makes up the "official report" would you say? The government perhaps. There very well could have been wounds to her right ear, but there was likely other wounds involved which were deliberately omitted.

or bullets were involved in causing the injury. The doctors who wrote the report have stressed that only an autopsy could determine what hit her.

Report silent on what hit Benazir’s head

ISLAMABAD: The seven-member medical team that examined former premier Benazir Bhutto at Rawalpindi General Hospital on December 27, submitted its report to the Interior Ministry, making no mention of what exactly hit the head of the former prime minister.

A 3-page medical report, a copy of which is available with Daily Times, stated that an open-head injury with depressed skull fracture caused a cardiopulmonary arrest. The Interior Ministry had claimed that Benazir suffered a head injury after hitting the lever of her vehicle’s sunroof. The report read, “Benazir was pulse-less and was not breathing when she was brought to the hospital. Her pupils were fixed dilated and non-reacting to light. A wound was present on the right temporo-parietal region through which blood was trickling down and a whitish material, which looked like brain matter was visible in the wound.”It said that cardiopulmonary resuscitation was given as soon as Benazir was brought to the hospital.
Daily Times

Here is the complete medical report, if you are interested:

"Medical Report of Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto"
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11974

you can see the back of her hair fly up even before she fell back down thru the roof. When she fell back down it was a clear path down, her head didn't seem to bang on anything as it passed thru the sunroof. And her head seemed well inside the car/thru the sunroof before the explosion.
Perhaps the post-shooting explosion was to destroy any video evidence taken as well as kill any witnesses who were close enough to see/hear the bullets? Or perhaps the gun carrying bomber didn't expect her to raise out of the sunroof and grabbed his chance to shoot her even if it wasn't their initial plan/method to kill her.

The official report is sourced from the same officials who might very well have had a hand in the assassination. Bhutto's family says that she was shot in the neck before the blast. They base their statements on their direct observation of her body while bathing it prior to burial.

of how John Kennedy died, slamming his head against the front seat headrest. And Robert Kennedy died a similar death, when he was hit by the swinging restaurant door.

you'd think the bleeding would have been inside the skull not all over the interior of the Land Cruiser. Unless her skull exploded when she it hit the sunroof.

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/international_politics/footage+of+bhuttos+death/1246547

Click on "watch the report" at the top right of the article.

Or not?

Beyond trying to prevent her status as a martyr, could Musharraf's people actually have wanted it to be known that they knowingly lied about the cause of death? By doing so, they may well been trying to send a message: If we had reason to lie about this transparently, then our political enemies will never know for sure how much complicity we had in the attack or how safe they will be in the future. Almost an implicit threat.

it was because the blast wave from the freaking BOMB blasted her into it, not because she "bumped her head" as she ducked. Her head was 12 inches or less above the edge of the sunroof--it's not like she fell on it from her full height.

This looks like a feeble attempt to make her death look like an unfortunate accident (and her own fault) following a failed assassination attempt, rather than a murder.

from the blast that supposedly smashed her head into the lever. I watched the press conference and this is what the Pakistani Interior Ministry spokesman said, but now new video evidence has come up that clearly shows that she was already inside the car when the blast happened, so the shock wave/lever theory can't be true.

this time from Pakistan.

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- Pakistan's Interior Ministry backtracked Tuesday on its statement that Benazir Bhutto died because she hit her head on a sunroof latch during a shooting and bomb attack....

...Interior Ministry spokesman Javed Iqbal Cheema told CNN the ministry will wait for the findings from forensic investigators before making a conclusion about her cause of death.

Cheema said he based his statement Friday about the sunroof latch "on the initial investigations and the reports by the medical doctors" who treated her at Rawalpindi General Hospital.

"I was just narrating the facts, you know, and nothing less nothing more," Cheema said.

"There's no intention to conceal anything from the people of Pakistan," an Interior Ministry news release said. http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/01/01/pakistan.autopsy/index.html