Vermont Town Seeks Bush, Cheney Arrests

Source: Associated Press

President Bush may soon have a new reason to avoid left-leaning Vermont: In one town, activists want him subject to arrest for war crimes.

A group in Brattleboro is petitioning to put an item on a town meeting agenda in March that would make Bush and Vice President Cheney subject to arrest and indictment if they visit the southeastern Vermont community.

"This petition is as radical as the Declaration of Independence, and it draws on that tradition in claiming a universal jurisdiction when governments fail to do what they're supposed to do," said Kurt Daims, 54, a retired machinist leading the drive.

(snip)
The measure asks: "Shall the Selectboard instruct the Town Attorney to draft indictments against President Bush and Vice President Cheney for crimes against our Constitution, and publish said indictment for consideration by other municipalities?"



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071228/ap_on_re_us/banning_bush_1

Whole states and communities have voted against the Patriot Acts.

Why not for impeachment? Neither Leahey or Sanders vote for impeachment when the President has withheld information and testimony. Guess Bush is "teflon" like Reagan but not Clinton.

may impeach, and only the Senate may convict.

Cities and towns can pass resolutions, which is fine, but they carry no legal weight.

They are *not* completely useless, because they do call attention to how horrible the regime has been. But they have no legal standing to arrest, impeach, convict or otherwise get rid of Bush/Cheney.

If you want people to make up laws as they go along, then you sink to the level of BushCo.

I think energies would be better spent writing letters to our reps asking for articles of impeachment.

The destruction of CIA tapes, documentation of evidence in an investigation of terrorists during interrogations of high level and high value terrorist suspects was a crime under the USA Patriot Act a FELONY VIOLATION of the USA Patriot Act during a time of ...?

Sometimes I wonder why I bother. Please spare me the list of Bush's offenses. I can and do read fluent English and have actually been paying attention for the last seven years.

States cannot impeach.
Cities cannot impeach.
Towns cannot impeach.

States cannot impeach.
Cities cannot impeach.
Towns cannot impeach.

States cannot impeach.
Cities cannot impeach.
Towns cannot impeach.

Only the United States House of Representatives can impeach.

Only the United States Senate can convict and remove from office.

Please read this carefully and try to understand. This is in the United States Constitution and is the law of the land.

Vermont cannot do anything legal to remove Bush.

I like this idea. It would keep him from disrupting our towns with his little R&R or photo-op visits.

Or we can just tell bush there's some brush that needs clearing in a town in Vermont.

No more having traffic tied up for hours when he comes in for a Repub fundraiser. They not only clear the entire interstate from the airport to his destination, but they block all the roads that cross the interstate, so no one can get anywhere!

I remember when he came to town to talk to some seniors about his plan to "fix" social security, and the audience was screened so no one could get in to see him unless they passed muster with his handlers.

I hope it spreads.

The guy on the radio - whose name I didn't catch - hoped the people of Kennebunkport might do the same thing. Wow - talk about the people taking things into their own hands. That's what happens when Congress turns a blind eye. This is the local station. Live & Local is the show.http://www.1490wkvt.com/ You've got to love Vermont.

...and into the hands of the people!



Cher

We take our pleasures where we can find them.

Where fine courageous people live.

Thank you.

Maybe we should all try this. Hell who am I kidding I live in Georgia where they still sport their bush 04 bumper stickers proudly along side of their "I support the troops" yellow ribbon and a flag on their antenna.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=fCutvXccFlA

This Christmas, I got a 2'x3' Green Mountain Boys flag. It's the green flag with a thirteen star field carried by VT rebels in the Revolutionary War period, now used as an unofficial Vermont flag (the official flag is boring, though I'd fly it proudly anyway if I had one).

Regrettably I would not be so excited to receive a 50-star American flag these days. A thirteen star, maybe, but not a 50-star flag. The 50-star flag is the flag of a regrettable empire, created without the consent of the governed in an oligarchy masquerading as a democracy.

Read the link to the end and see the comments by the state AG, no friend of Bushco...

Vermont Attorney General William Sorrell, a Democrat whose office has repeatedly sued the Bush administration over environmental issues, called the move "of very dubious legality."

"I have not seen the proposal, and I've done no legal research on any of the issues," Sorrell said. "But at first blush, if this passed, they'd have really uphill sledding trying to have it be legal and enforceable."

Can you imagine if Barney Fife and Andy tried to arrest the POTUS? There would be a federal army there before Barney could find his bullet.

The only legal way to remove a sitting POTUS is impeachment/conviction.

and even if it did, it wouldn't mean much, but that's not the point. It simply illustrates the frustration and anger that people have about bushco.

I'd rather see our elected reps do their jobs and impeach properly rather than have scattered kangaroo courts.

President and VP want for us "domestic terrorists" (the other party)? Have you read the Patriot Acts, Military Commissions Act, and FEMA provisions?

They have been declared War Criminals by the World Court because of their lies for war and genocide of the Iraqi people.

> They have been declared War Criminals by the World Court because of their lies for war and genocide of the Iraqi people.

And what planet did this happen on?

They're cowards. They like to hide behind the troops while chanting about "fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here" while enabling war profiteers - some of them members of his own Cabinet, some of them Carlyle Group members and friends of his father - to turn the whole of Iraq into a giant free-fire zone.

So no, they'll never come to Brattleboro, because they're afraid someone might actually enforce the law.

from enemies both foreign and domestic.
But your type apparently don't understand or like that particular document.

will repeat:

Which statute authorizes a city or town to remove a sitting president?

Here are the Articles of Impeachment

Article I, Section 2

Clause 5: The House of Representatives shall choose their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

Article I, Section 3

Clause 6: The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Clause 7: Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party, (defendant), convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

Nope, nothing in there about Brattleboro VT. Sorry dude, but thanks for playing.

death rays, nukes and whatnot.

See you there. :hi:

Even Presidential candidate Paul, who is a Republican and a conservative, believe in the Constitution. Like democracy it belongs to all Americans.

Which article of the Constitution allows a state, like Vermont, to arrest and remove from office a sitting president?

You may wish it to be so, but it just ain't.

If you wish to carry out illegal arrests, how does that make you any better than Bush?

does not give any town, city, or state the power to impeach the President, or to arrest him for crimes not committed within their jurisdiction, of which 'war crimes' would be a prime example.

If Congress doesn't get it done, it won't be done. The Hague is good only for trying 3rd world dictators who have already been beaten by someone else, probably the United States. No US President will EVER go there in our lifetime. No Democratic president would EVER accept such a precedent, even for a hated Republican. Why? Because then it IS a precedent and might bite them personally in the ass.

I'd laugh if I weren't crying so hard.

Big difference there. Arresting Bush and Cheney may very well pave the way to their removal. Word.

He has described the move as being "of very dubious legality."

Do you know something that he doesn't?

was this Attorney General when he swore an oath of office to the Constitution? Or his law degree? It is the law of the land. Vermont probably has a state Constitution too.

that allows a town, city or state to arrest or remove a sitting president?

I applaud your indignation that Bush has been allowed to continue to hold office, but if you could channel it into doing just a little bit of reading, you would learn, as I did, that Brattleboro's gesture is completely meaningless, unenforcable, and illegal.

Impeachment is the only legal route. Anything else amounts to pitchforks and torches, ie mob action.

high crimes and misdemeanors. If lying about war to their country and the world isn't a misdemeanor what is?

"The right to impeach public officials is secured by the U.S. Constitution in Article I, Sections 2 and 3, which discuss the procedure, and in Article II, Section 4, which indicates the grounds for impeachment: "the President, Vice President, and all civil officers of the United States shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

The question is not whether Bush/Cheney can be impeached, it is can a city or state impeach. The answer is no. Only the House of Representatives can impeach.

and then their representatives can impeach. How do you know what is in their State of Vermont Constitution? I imagine they can impeach too. Every state\cities signed on to the Constitution and some even have it on their own too.

Even countries like France are going to arrest Cheney if he goes there. He is wanted by the World Court.

The State of Illinois is trying to impeach. http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_steven_l_060422_bush_impeachment___t.htm
And other cities...http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/340890.shtml

Also the City of San Francisco http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/132904/index.php

Do you approve of their criminal behavior? You seem very insulting.

Some citizens in the various cities\towns are trying to impeach these criminals even if the Congress won't. Pressure is coming from them to do it or their representatives will be removed in the next elections. Why do you think so many Republicans are "retiring" because they won't get elected again? This way they leave without going to jail and with a bag of plunder.

I am obviously failing to get you to understand my posts.

Sorry.

And it doesn't matter what the state constitution says. The supreme law of the United States is the US Constitution. And the US Constitution says expressly that the House of Representatives shall have the sole power of impeachment with respect to officers of the United States.

Also, got a link for the claim that France has plans to arrest Cheney and that he is "wanted" by the World Court? Don't think you'll find one.

As for the efforts by various cities, state legislatures to pass impeachment resolutions which could then be presented to the House -- to the extent there is such a process (and its not spelled out in the constituion, but rather is found in the House rules and precedents which, of course, the House can choose to follow, not follow, change, etc.). Those rules and precedents suggest that a resolution passed by the legislature of a state (not some city council) can be presented as a privileged resolution. Well, first you still have to find someone to present it and given that no one has be willing to submit a resolution proposing to impeach chimpy on their own behalf it seems unlikely that they're going to do it based on a resolution from their state. And even if they did, the fate of the resolution would be no better than the fate suffered by DK's resolution -- referral to the Judiciary Committee where nothing would happen.

starts at the local level. They say all politics are local. They put pressure on their representatives to impeach or they are outta there.

Nixon's impeachment started at a local level with people outraged over his actions in S. America and arrogance.

Absolutely. Which is why, until members of Congress feel that the public is on board, they aren't going to push it. The biggest problem that I see is that impeachment wasn't an issue in virtually any of the campaigns in 2006 and therefore no members feel driven to make it a priority.

are old time action by citizens. We use courts and strikes I hope. If not...eventually chaos and guns in the streets. The government would be lucky if it was only mob action and pitch forks.

That's why we have a democracy with peaceful elections for a turn over of power without violence. This is being abused by the powerful elite (media silencing them and Congress ignoring them)so the people know they don't have a voice. Since fair elections no longer exist in our democracy (for about four elections cycles) what do you think people are going to do in the modern world?

the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force will show up on the side of the government, not the rioters.

So, probably, will most of the citizens. Nobody ever wants a mob to rule.

is what you think? If they are Americans they not be on the side of tyranny and evil leadership? They have families who are suffering. They may love their country. That's why they serve in the first place (well mainly so).

Why do you suppose they made our home forces smaller and closed our bases? Over turning of governments by the military has happened in the past in S. America, etc.

I have long wondered who those "security troops annd police armed to the teeth" were who attack American protestors against the illegal wars, WTO bad trade policy, etc. around the country since Bush stole power. If we remove their protective gear would they be mercinaries of the "Blackwater Corp." or even from foreign county mercinaries and not local police at all.

There has been concern over the City of Chicago training their own "security police". They use our money to take away our rights.

As an American you too would side with their protests or at least allow them to speak. We remember the problems with Germany and Russia. 70% of the country wants Bush and Cheney gone.

will be sent against the mob, that is what I think.

They will be sent, and they will go. Not all Americans think the same as you. Not all Americans think the same as I. They are sworn police officers, or soldiers, or whatever force is sent, and most of them will uphold their oaths regardless of their personal feelings. At least, I would bet that way.

in people who care and we might keep our democracy.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:evilgrin:

I lived there in the early 70's. It hasn't changed much.

the wonderful state of Vermont.

:rofl:

:yourock:

What an inspiration !

Put those bastards in jail then I'll be happy.:eyes:

Democracy?

for Twice the Asking Price!

(I just made that up, no link!)

K and R

So why does it take a small hick town do do something the Democrat controlled Congress apparantly doesn't have the balls to do, huh?

~

"Hick town." Why do people persist in doing this?

You should visit. Vermont in general (and Brattleboro in particular) is very progressive. Several towns in Vermont have already passed resolutions to impeach */Cheney. I'd be a little careful about tossing aspersions about without knowing who my targets are. As for Congress, I am in absolute agreement. My theory is that *'s wiretapping extended to members of Congress and he has dirt on enough of them to blackmail them into compliance.

and my little dirt road village in the Northeast Kingdom.

with more farms.

Love the place.

That is awesome, I hope they are able to get that petition! The news itself brings new hope for justice!


:bounce: :woohoo: :bounce:

... raised in Essex Junction.

Way to go, VT!!!

...I love Vermont!

Sounds like the epicenter of Common Sense to me.

Great cheese, too!

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Activists in Vermont town want Bush, Cheney subject to arrest
* Story Highlights
* Group in Brattleboro petitioning to put item on town meeting agenda in March
* Activists allege war crimes; item would subject Bush, Cheney to arrest if they visit
* White House hasn't responded to requests for comment
* Vermont AG says move is "of very dubious legality"
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/vermont.banning.bush.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview



Kurt Daims of Brattleboro, Vermont, speaks Friday about his movement against Bush and Cheney.

"A town seeking...."

Just another bit of sound and fury, signifying nothing. As they tend to do up there in The People's Republic of Brattleboro.

Not that I'm disparaging them; they mean well, but accomplish nothing. Then they try again and again, to the point where I want to move up there so I can either join or watch them.

Redstone

... is a "sense of the community council" - a slap in the face, gathering bad publicity for Bush, but without legal meaning.

administration like the criminals they are and issue warrants to arrest them. I pray a multitude of cities and states do the same sending a clear message to our elected reps in congress and to the world. We want them impeached.

have failed to listen to the people.

Bernie Sanders talks (VT-I) circles around everything important. Progressive my foot! Why isn't he calling for impeachment hearings and 911 investigations? He's another reresentatives who ignores the Constitution except for libraries. I guess he kisses babies too. Wish Thom Hartmann would stop pushing this blabber mouth on his program. Is that how he says on the air?

Find another Progressive Vermont.

I disagree with Bernie on impeachment, but aside from that I completely support him. And sorry, so do the vast majority of my fellow Vermonters. You do what you want in your state and keep out of mine.

and his vote does effect our country.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20899#continueA Surpise, surpise the wasted time in Congress regarding the illegal war.

Niether Sanders or Leahey are supporting impeachment. Why is that?

and you're lucky we vote for such good ones. As for you? You don't get a vote in our elections, and if you don't like Vermont, stay the hell out. That's fine with me.

but I have a close friend who does. He won't vote for these guys ever again.

Love it or leave it.

ROTFLMAO

:hug:

When I logged on and read this,I busted out laughing,go Vermont, you have my full support!

and get the Kennebunkport DA on the line.

I've often thought that, if I can ever afford to retire, VT is one of the places I'd consider moving to. Yeah, the winters are cold, and there are more cows than people up there. And jobs aren't easy to come by in a small, rural state. That's why I'd want to wait until I was retired, so jobs wouldn't be an issue.

http://www.brattleboro.org/ Bernie Sanders refers to Brattleboro as the bluest town in the bluest county in the bluest state.

:applause: :patriot:

Or are they immune from arrest until the end of their term (either having it expire, or being impeached and removed from office)?

the Constitution is silent on the issues of the Chief Executive. There has been no court ruling on the matter.

Having the chief LEO of the nation arrested or indicted presents an unmitigatable conflict of interest -- could you really ask a beat cop to arrest the President? Could he ever consider his job safe after that?

immobilized by the USSS.

Only a Federal Marshall could conceivably make an arrest, but the Constitution does not authorize this, as far as I can tell. If someone can correct me on this, please do.

:yourock:

Bush as President has never come to Vermont. The "War Crimes Referendum" is set to be voted on in March. Hope Bush and Cheney get nailed and do the perp walk in the Hague before then... or at least get impeached....
Except for the impeachment thing I agree with Bernie!
Perhaps this action in Brattleboro (After so many other towns in Vermont, for instance Newfane, for the past two years have voted for asking their State representatives to pass impeachment resolutions0 will inspire others to also take action. VERMONT ROCKS! (AND GROWS THEM TO ANNOY TRAVELERS IN THE SPRING. GO 14TH STATE AND FIRST INDEPENDENT REPUBLIC!

Plane tickets to Brattleboro, Vermont. I hear the fishing is good there.

And while I think it's a nice symbolic gesture, all you people who are hooting and hollering and saying, "Oh, boy! I want to move to Brattleboro!" need to understand that this is a movement of - EIGHT - people. Okay? Eight.

My town IS a cool place and a good place to live but it's not the Berkeley/east that some of you seem to think. It's a pretty quiet and relatively low-key little Vermont town that has its share of vocal activists (which is good) and sometimes makes the news - as it did last year when the entire nation got the idea that everyone in the town went around nude all the time and we got an influx of idiots parading around in their birthday suits, which ended up forcing the town for the first time in history to enact public nudity legislation which they didn't want to do.

So support 'em, cheer 'em, whatever. But don't think that this represents the majority because it just doesn't.

to us up here in the Kingdom. Of course we do have Bread & Puppet up the road, but still, it's a world of difference between the Kingdom and Brattleboro.

why so many here upset?

and the entire world.

I love Vermont! Way to go Brattleboro!

It's nice to know the Constitution is still taken seriously somewhere.

:loveya: :hug:

VERMONT!!

to note that retired machinist, Kurt Daims, 54, has finally atoned for the vile besmirching of the good name of machinists all over the world, by the now infamous Rahway, NJ, machinist and father of three, Bud Crandall, in his quote in The Onion's prophetic editorial: "Bush: Our Long National Nightmare Of Peace And Prosperity Is Finally Over":

"'After eight years of relatively sane fiscal policy under the Democrats, we have reached a point where, just a few weeks ago, President Clinton said that the national debt could be paid off by as early as 2012,'" Rahway, NJ, machinist and father of three Bud Crandall said. "That's not the kind of world I want my children to grow up in." Joking aside, though, imo, Mr Daims should have been Time Magazine's "Man of The Year".

A sitting President can't be arrested or indicted (though he can be subject of a civil suit -- thanks to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy). He must first be impeached and removed from office.

Still, it's a cool measure.

legal precedent for that.

What are the odds that the Secret Service will allow it to happen to a sitting President of the United States.

Why do liberal activists keep coming up with such fool stunts? It detracts from the seriousness of their positions.

Save it for when we might really need it. Like when something really impeachable happens. :evilgrin:

I thought it had. Look at the list of impeachable acts listed by Democrats.com.

Says much about Congress and the naysayers defending them.


:hi: