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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 03:09 AM
Original message
Oil supplies have not peaked
Source: Gulf News

Oil at $100 a barrel should give exporters every incentive to pump more, but their difficulty in doing so shows the world is struggling to sustain production.

A growing number of leading industry figures - the CEOs of Total and ConocoPhillips among them - now question mainstream forecasts for supply, suggesting the era of "plateau oil" is nearer than many in the business have admitted.

While global oil demand is projected to grow to more than 100 million barrels per day later this century, some argue it may not be possible to boost flows beyond the current rate of some 86 million barrels...

Read more: http://gulfnews.com/business/Oil_and_Gas/10180652.html



Good news and bad news in this... For peak oil theorists, you have to push your model back a bit. However, the article also admits the major problems on the supply side.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. The title
is almost opposite what the body of the article says.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Exactly, but it is technically correct as these guys are saying the
actual PEAK of oil production will not be reached until later than previously thought.

Most peak oil theorists place the peak NOW, or have us on the downward spiral already.
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Uh, why are you presuming their arguments are right?
They have a certain motivation in arguing thusly.

And the article provides almost no support for that position.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. And so do the peak oil people...
Let's check our motivations at the door...
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. And just what are the motivations of the peak oil believers? nt
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. bingo.... good catch
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. A gentle peak looks like a plateau, and production models typically predict this
Check out http://www.theoildrum.com for excellent analysis.
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profgoose Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. Thanks for the kind words... (and a note on CERA/Yergin)
...about The Oil Drum.

You all should see what we have up today: a debunking of Daniel Yergin and CERA over the past five years. It's scary how wrong they've been. They'll look like geniuses when the economy tanks and demand goes down, of course.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3487
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. My pleasure -- I visit TheOilDrum daily
It's been very educational!

:toast:
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Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. You know what's going to happen, right?

Somebody will seize upon high gas prices as an issue, and will create massive incentives to some refining company in an effort to remove some of the bottlenecks in the refining part of the process.

If I understood what I read the other day, oil is not in shortage but refining capacity is backlogged, and that is increasing the actual price of gasoline. Oil will become more and more scarce as demand increases, but current demand can be met. That demand is stuck behind a wall of refining capacity.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. There is no incentive to increase the gasoline supply
Have you checked the profits of the major gas suppliers in the US?
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Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Exactly.

But if a politician is going to be given a big bag of money, they might be more likely to propose a huge incentive program (from our tax dollars) to give some supplier a way to build a whole new refinery. Now, whether or not the refinery ever goes on line is another thing.

No supplier would spend their profits on expansion / upgrades if it didn't lead to more profit. Limited capacity increases their profits. So, my guess is that we're going to see somebody propose we just give a refinery to some company since it would create jobs, etc.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Why not a US government refinery that can directly tap the Strategic Reserve?
That would seem logical for National Security Reasons!

Just a MODEST proposal...
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. PBS NOW showed how they closed refineries to create local shortages &gas price increases
DAVID BRANCACCIO: Other analysts see it differently. Yesterday, the Rand think tank published a study based on wide discussions with refining industry officials. According to the study, those in the industry are patting themselves on the back for getting so efficient by ridding themselves of so much capacity. The study includes one executive's "happy" thought: "I think the industry has learned that it's okay to fall short on product. There is no reward being long on product or production capability."

In other words, there's no margin in being on the side of the little guy. If you're an investor in one of these refining companies, you may agree with that wholeheartedly. If you're driving somewhere this holiday weekend in a vehicle that requires fossil fuel, you may not. We can all agree on at least one thing, however. The biggest spike in gasoline prices on record is not just a household budget issue. It slows down the entire economy, costing by some estimates, as much as a billion dollars a week. Do the math. At that rate, it could cost us 52 billion dollars a year &%151; almost as much as we got back from the president's latest tax cut.

That's it for now. I'm DAVID BRANCACCIO

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/brancaccio.html

Apparently, NOW has done several stories on this subject
http://www.pbs.org/now/search_google.html?q=refineries
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. All pointing toward the need for a partially nationalize supply chain
it really is a national security issue
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wishlist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. New refineries were approved by Gulf state govts but were never built
Experts on CNBC after Hurricane Katrina stated unequivocably that several new refineries on drawing boards had gotten the green light from either or both Louisiana or Mississipi several years ago, but the companies did not build because there was no need as long as existing refineries could provide enough to maximize profits without the companies spending on new refineries. The oil industry experts said that govt regulations or lack of incentives were not to blame for the fact that no new refineries have been built.

There should be no incentives for an industry making such huge profits but being unwilling to reinvest profits in infrastructure improvements and maintenance as long as the current facilities are able to meet demand providing windfall profits.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. I wonder if there is some way to "load-shift" to prevent the peaks of consumption
Then the supply and demand curve won't drive the retail price of gasoline to obscene, profit-gouging highs.
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Texifornia Donating Member (399 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. nonsense
If refining capacity were the problem, crude oil would be stacking up like cordwood as tankers could not unload and the price of crude oil would plummet.

Refined products are fungible. Crude is at $100/bbl.

The peak is not sharp because a great deal of Iraqi oil is not getting to market. It only serves to truncate the peak.

Building a zillion more refineries will not put more oil into the ground.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
7. "you have to push your model back a bit" -no evidence whatsoever for that
Edited on Thu Jan-10-08 06:25 AM by depakid
and certainly not from this article.

As it stands- production data shows a peak for all liquids of 85.47 mbpd in July of 2006.

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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
9. "peak oil theorists" don't have to do anything.
Edited on Thu Jan-10-08 08:01 AM by Teaser
The article has a very high "fluff factor".
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
11. In fact I'd bet the original title of the article was
"Oil supplies near peak"

until an editor pressured for a change. Because the more I read the article, the less one can say anything different.

There is NO substantive support in the article for the title.
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freedomnorth Donating Member (237 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
12. Slow and painful awakening... nt.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
13. As long as the price per barrel keeps rising...
...they'll find a few more wells that weren't previously profitable. Perhaps even up until the moment the last drop is gone.
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
14. Um . . if the production rate has reached a plateau . . is that not the peak rate of production?
Sounds like Rove or Luntz spin to me.

And to my knowledge, most 'peak oil theorists' have felt there would be a protracted plateau period, assuming no geopolitical overlay.

Which, in the end, is fantasy.







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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
17. I guess they still haven't made enough money off of the people yet.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
20. Very Misleading Title (nt)
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
21. i saw a program on the algae oil.. it is produced in hanging curtains with baffles like a
sleeping bag.. they said it would take 1/10th the area of NM to supply the nations needs.. sounds like a good start for a new industry even before the final research is over for maximum production.. it could easily fill the gap between other renewable energies, solar could supply at least 50% of daytime eventually.. if they would quit screwing us with corn ethanol, should be illegal its immoral, and go into cellulose and hemp.. we would be free of foreign oil,

things like non carbon chain oil like AMSOIL would reduce oil changes in cars to 250,000 miles.. it increases mpg considerably also. and reduces engine wear exponentially...

we could do it, be free of foreign and domestic oil domination, if we weren't controlled by 'Disaster Capitalists'..
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Good post!
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. AMSOIL? Please, tell me more.
I'm not up on any of this. Could you point me in the right direction? That sounds very promising!
I'll google also.
Thanks!
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. I'll third the calls for more information
Algae oil? Non-carbon chain oil?

What are those?

(I'm just honestly curious, here.)
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Here ya go :)
Vertigro Algae Bio-Fuel Oil/C02 Sequestration System

The Vertegro system consists of a series of closely spaced vertical bio-reactors constructed of thin film membranes allowing high levels of light penetration. This new bio-reactors are tailored to grow a species of algae that yields a large volume of high grade vegetable oil, which is very suitable for blending with diesel to create a bio-diesel fuel.


There's more in the link.

One thing I'd really like to know is what does the cost of oil do to the cost of plastics. We all know how much the fuels (gasoline, diesel, kerosene, heating oil) cost, but the hydrocarbons that make up plastics account for a large portion of that $100 barrel, too. What does this mean for their costs going up? Or are the profits made from the fuels offsetting the costs of making the plastics?
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Emillereid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
28. The plateau of production that the article speaks of is what 'peak' oil is
all about -- peak is when production hits a limit. The problem of course is when demand outstrips production.
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Texifornia Donating Member (399 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Exactly!
The peak is truncated because so much Iraqi oil is off the market.
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