Army 'flees second Pakistan fort'

Source: BBC News

Pakistani troops have abandoned a fort in a remote tribal area, a day after another was overrun by pro-Taleban militants, officials and witnesses say.
They say that paramilitary personnel at Sipla Toi military post in South Waziristan left their positions fearing an attack by the militants.

Locals told the BBC that 30-40 troops had been stationed at Sipla Toi, some 90km (55 miles) from the town of Dera Ismail Khan. The outpost is nearly as big as the one at Sararogha

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7193281.stm

He has to go.

We don't hear the good news. Context.

We also don't see maps showing where all the problems are (context), or hear the background on the areas involved (context). They've pretty much *never* been under the central government's control. Musharraf has areas more under control than any post-WWII leader, and areas under less control than has been usual since WWII.

We also don't hear about the tribes and groups and power structures involved, assuming that all the Taliban are one group, and that "God's House" Mehsud is just a random mullah (context). Hell, they usually don't give enough information for somebody with partial knowledge of the context what's going on.

In any event, I'm far from certain that the situation is much worse than the late '60s. But we also don't hear about that (more useless context).

However, we know precisely how to judge. The context would just get in the way and muddle our thinking, I'm sure ... as though the news editor cares about context, or most of the reporters know it.

facts get in the way of sensational knee jerk reactions.
Sub Continent politics are not to be mulled over by the hand picked panel of experts they bought and paid for ;)

I fear our Special Forces will be in there rather soon.

Mushy's days are numbered.

I fear our Special Forces will be in there rather soon.

Bear in mind that the whole (alleged) point of all the saber-rattling towards Iran was/is to make sure that radical Islamists don't get their hands on :nuke: s. Here we have a country that already has them -- that just possibly might fall to radical Islamists. :scared:

An unstable Pakistan fucks up the Iran invasion plans. We can't go into Iran if Afghanistan and Iraq aren't secure.

Anyone remember this episode of Stargate: SG-1? Icon, EPISODE NUMBER - 805



EPISODE NUMBER - 805
ORIGINAL U.S. AIR DATE - 08.06.04
SYNDICATION AIR DATE - 10.17.05
WRITTEN BY - Damian Kindler
DIRECTED BY - Peter F. Woeste
GUEST STARRING - Matthew Bennett (Jarrod Kane), Amy Sloan (Leda), Timothy Webber (Commander Gareth), James Kidnie (Soren), Gary Jones (Technician), Richard Side (Guide), Leanne Adachi (Rebel Aide), Preston Cook (Radio Man), Charles Zuckermann (Rebel Soldier)
Daniel is stranded on another planet after the team's arrival on an alien world sparks a
violent civil war.

<snip>

Shortly after a startled tourist group witnesses the relic of their Stargate open for the first time in the middle of a museum, Colonel Carter, Dr. Jackson and Teal'c step through to be greeted by delegates from the world. Many here had dismissed the possibility that the Stargate is a mystical power source for ancient gods. The team is warned that there are even those who might consider this new reality a threat.

One month later, Daniel reports that his negotiations between the Rand Protectorate (the government in possession of the Stargate) and the Caledonian Federation (a rival nation) have only been moderately successful. Both governments have enough firepower to wipe out the other -- but the real problem is Soren, the leader of a radical group who still believe in the ancient gods. They believe SG-1's arrival has verified their beliefs, and thus made a touchy situation worse. Daniel insists he must return to help, and eventually persuades General O'Neill to allow him to go back to the planet.

Two weeks later, Daniel has been unsuccessful in brokering a truce. The religious zealot, Soren, has gathered his forces from across the country and is now a major threat. The Rand have been forced to heighten their alert status to match that of the rival nation. Minister Treydan of the Caledonians swears to Commander Gareth that if the Rand are unable to secure Soren and his forces, the Caledonians will be forced to strike to prevent the radicals from taking over.

Rebel forces have detonated devices very near to one of the Rands missile facilities. Shortly afterward they use it to strike at Caledonia. Gareth's second, Jarrod Kane, reports that the facility is now compromised. Soren's forces attack the Rand's command bunker, and Kane attempts to get Daniel to the Stargate before government falls -- but is shot in the leg by the insurgents. Daniel and Kain escape together to the surface, and Gareth is executed soon after.

Both sides are left in ruins, with Soren now in control of the Rand Protectorate -- and the Stargate.


More:
http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s8/805.shtml


See also:

http://www.stargatehandbook.org/sg1/randians.html

and

http://www.astro.umd.edu/~avondale/Reviews/Stargate/s8-icon.html

Not only did I see it, but I have vague recollections of it (which is actually a fairly ringing endorsement when coming from me).

I caught the the first season on Showtime and loved it, and after the show came to basic cable I watched when I got the chance, enough to follow the general story arc.

I balked at the price of the DVDs. However, my friend bought the Chinese eBay versions of Chapters 1-8 (Chinese packaging, Mostly English title screens) and I watched them, back to back, one week last summer. I'm going to borrow nine and ten over the summer.

IIRC, there were a few episodes in the last few seasons that touched on similar issues, i.e. violating Roddenberry's first contact legislation, direct interference with another culture's civil war and internal issues.

What a lot of people forget about Stargate is that it was/is produced for British audiences as much (or more than) for American, and therefore has to appeal to their sensibilities, which are often a lot for sensible than Americans'.

What is the point of having such lovely weapons if they are afraid to use them. :sarcasm: Sort of an offshoot of Madaline Albright and her statement "What is the point of having such a lovely military if we are afraid to use it"

Most of the Pakistani troops sympathize with the Taliban anyway.

The U.S., representing about 3.8% of the world's population, is simply unable to manage its colonies in foreign countries. The US's wars are failing badly.
Our reputation has become so tainted, that it's impossible to rule by "soft diplomacy" which is probably where 90% of your management comes from, anyway. It's really tough to rule at gun point, and that's what has become of our leadership abroad.
It's too costly, and it's simply impossible to accomplish.

Pakistan is going to fall, it's just a matter of time.
The Taleban and regional powers will probably take over, and there's really not much the US can do.

---

This response is orchestrated by al-Qaeda from its camps around the town of Mir Ali in North Waziristan. Al-Qaeda views any peace agreements with the Pakistani Taliban as a government maneuver to split the militants, and also says Islamabad has been consistently intransigent over the years.

Al-Qaeda demands that it be the chief interlocutor in any peace talks, and it has set its bottom line: guarantees of the withdrawal of all security forces from the tribal areas; enforcement of sharia law, the release of Maulana Abdul Aziz of the radical Lal Masjid (Red Mosque), who was apprehended last year; and that President Pervez Musharraf step down.

Graphic ideology

Al-Qaeda has fought back strongly in the tribal areas after being forced onto the back foot as a result of Pakistani security operations. Its hardline message is well summed up by a video now in circulation, a copy of which Asia Times Online has viewed. It comes from the camp of Tahir Yuldashev, leader of the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, in Mir Ali. It carries bloody footage, including that of severed heads, backed by messages from top Takfiri ideologues in the tribal areas, including Abdul Khaliq Haqqani and Yuldashev.

The video traces some of the successes of the insurgents, including mass surrender scenes of Pakistani armed forces in South Waziristan and detailed footage of the October 2007 war in North Waziristan - the biggest battle in the history of Pakistan's tribal regions. There are scenes of Pakistani F-16s bombing towns and the retaliation of the Pakistani Taliban. The video claims the killing of 150 Pakistani soldiers and shows footage of their bodies, burnt vehicles and seized equipment.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JA18Df02.html

No, I was not aware of this.
This is really, really bad. Much worse than we even expected. No wonder the US has been coming unglued about the situation over there.

They know FAR more than they have been divulging.

If it holds up along the lines suggested it could get pretty wild. Let's hope it's not contagious.

"The U.S., representing about 3.8% of the world's population, is simply unable to manage its colonies in foreign countries. The US's wars are failing badly."

You could say that about the western world in general. The prevailing paradigm can't last.

The worlds biggest democracy has been under attack for years from their neighbor. Even their government seat has been bombed as recently as December 2001 yet they seem to be holding off starting the fourth war against Pakistan with the US posing as the only buffer.
3.8% of the worlds population has prevented the largest democracy in the world from startin a nuclear war on severl occasions....but how many more hits can the ceasefire take against the current Pakistani government? Seems that desision is being considered along the Afghan border cave provinces

I don't know what the solution is. Pakistan and Afghanistan could probably swallow up half a million western troops, though, if we decided to expand the Afghanistan war into Pakistan. Talk about a quagmire.

Pakistani forces have killed up to 90 fighters in two separate battles in the South Waziristan region on the Afghan border, according to the military.

Troops on Friday fought off a "large number" of fighters who had attacked the military at Ladha fort in South Waziristan, killing 50 to 60 of the attackers, the army said in a statement.

Fighters earlier ambushed a convoy of security forces with rockets and small arms, sparking an hour-long battle that left 20 to 30 fighters dead and four soldiers injured, it added.

The clashes at Ladha fort on Friday erupted after fighters started firing rockets and small arms at the outpost in the morning, after which dozens of attackers started to gather around the building.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E8710DAE-3080-44C0-AEDC-8E29FD070D9E.htm

one more high level assassination and the lawless will rule