Obama battles Muslim rumor head-on

Source: CNN



Read more: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

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Personally, I don't think anyone who would fall for a rumor like this was prepared to vote for Obama in the first place. Still, good to see he's willing to respond to cheap shots.

Imagine what this would be like in August.

At least the guy is finally growing a pair. For a while there the only one with any balls was the woman.

I think they were in his girlfriend's mouth.

Don't kid yourself.

I was gonna scold the morons for still playing this idiocy with Obama - but thanks for quashing that idea with your stupid post...

I should have known as much from you obamabots...

It may have originated with right wingers, but Hillary's campaign has picked it up and run with it. Don't forget, two of her Iowa organizers were given the axe for sending out the madrassa email.

No doubt in my mind..it smells like a Rove smear..Poppy Bush probably told the Clintos to use it...

with much of the false propaganda out of the Republicans.

posted about it, including the response, with research and links, that I sent out to EVERY email address, every level down on the forwarding chain. I knew I'd probably piss off a few of 'em (they hate having their complacency assaulted) but fuck it. If they're gonna insist on embracing the Dark Ages and trying to drag the rest of us backwards into it, too, then they're going to get shit from me. And I figure they deserve it, until and unless they decide to rejoin the human race. These originally came to me from the same general direction - the same people who, for years, have sent out all the anti-Clinton shit (TONS of it), all the anti-Hillary shit (GOD has there ever been a shitload of THIS), all the anti-liberal shit, all the pro-CONservative shit, all the extremist flat-earth Bible-distortion shit, all the reagan adoration shit, all the bush-worship shit. And once, one of 'em even sent me a "stealth bush" email rhapsodizing about "I Love Cowboys!" By the end of it, BTW, it was VERY clear the whole thing had been about ronnie raygun and his "son" and true heir, dubya. I sent a response pointing out how bush is scared of horses and lives on a pig farm.

I think this is GOP-issue, myself, just considering the track record I personally have observed over the long term. Dear God they're threatened by the Clintons. Have been for YEARS. And they hate FDR and the New Deal to this day (the age of some of the senders is a tip-off). They despise Democrats in general and liberals in particular. They're predictable and idiotic and knee-jerk, and they're undoubtedly on the Dark Side lists. They are conservatives at best and at worst in some cases outright flaming, card-carrying, sheet-wearing, gay-bashing, mysogynistic knuckle-draggers and, unfortunately, mostly unredemmable souls. They tend not to hear reason even when you're hand-tweezing it directly into their ears, with footnotes and other documentation.

because they can't just do immature things like using his middle name when they refer to him without looking childish.

Having to battle lies about his religious belief, and proclaim his "belief in Jesus Christ" in order to have a shot at the presidency. What century is this anyway?

And way too many Republicans. They are dragging the country down and making us look ridiculous to the world. I am so ashamed of America right now.

My friend, it's always 1620 in America.

See: http://www.counterpunch.org/lichtman07102004.html

I received a really stupid email about Obama that I will not even discuss for fear of perpetuating the bull shit.

I replied to the send and all those who he sent it to and asked if he truly believed this shit. And I explained that this is how we got the bastard that is in the White House now.

The guy replied that he just thought it was funny.

Regardless of who the candidate is, we need to defend them against the hate and the gossip that the right will try to use to bring them down.

I have done a bunch of searches and a couple yes or no answers will go along to clearing this up for me. I have read a couple "coffee house" explanations from Obama too. Every page I find that seems to be more or less just the facts laid out without any commentary, all seem to indicate the same thing. Now please just yes or no.

Was Obama EVER enrolled in any school as a muslim?

Has he Ever prayed at a Mosque?

Remember yes or no. I keep hearing answers that dart around the question. It has nothing to do with his religion it has to to with the answer.

I mean, I was baptized or whatever at birth as an Lutheran. I can remember being drug to the church, even served as some sort of helper for a while. But I am no more Lutheran than my cat. While not a Christian either, I can appreciate the calling to Christ, understand it, everything is cool. But when I keep hearing prose that never answers a simple yes or no question my suspicions grow. And for what it is worth. I am an agnostic so I hold ALL religion in the same light.

Why is it so fucking important anyway?

Why should it matter whether or not he was enrolled in any school as a muslim? It is quite clear that if he was, it was his parent's doing and further, there is no evidence that it actually happened anyway. And what does it mean to "be enrolled in a school as a muslim"? It is not clear to me that there is a yes or no answer to this question. Maybe he attended a school where most of his classmates and the teachers were Muslim. Does that make it a Muslim school? I am not so sure. Is there Muslim arithmetic and writing? If the Koran was used does that make it a Muslim school? Whether or not it is, it doesn't address the question of whether he was enrolled "as a Muslim." Surely there are non-Muslim children in Muslim schools. Maybe his father would answer one way, his mother another. One thing is for certain: It is quite irrelevant to the task at hand of choosing a president so why is it so damn important to you?

As for praying at a mosque - again, who gives a crap? If he did it was as a child or it was as an adult and he was just doing it out of respect just as many Christians would.

These are such childish and sophomoric questions that it defies belief that anyone who understands our system of government would even seriously ask them. The only reasons I can think of that someone would ask them is ignorance or to somehow gain some political advantage by keeping the pot stirred up. What part of the Constitutional mandate of "no religious test for elected or appointed office" do you not understand?

You know, perhaps a dozen or two people on this planet believe the words that come out of my mouth. And when I answer a question they believe me completely. So I need to know I am speaking truthfully when I answer.

In the circles I travel we deal in FACTS. Facts can be usually be found in simple yes or no answers. When the answer is something else, it shows some sort of deception, think lie detector test here. Yes or no answers generally DO NOT raise more questions unless a pattern is seen developing. You can not understand this? (no I am not a cop btw, far from it).

Instead of sending out surrogates to do the bidding why does he not just answer truthfully, presuming the answer to either of my questions is yes, Because as of yet nobody can seem to do this.

Like I said I was drug to a Lutheran church for years, but I am not a Lutheran, not even a little....

it matters so damn much. "No religious test" means these questions should not even be asked and if they should not be asked they should not be answered either. Because answering them only encourages the people who ask them and more innapropriate questions will be asked of Obama and of others. And you do protest a bit much about the Lutheran thingy, imo - again, why mention it?

"In the circles I travel we deal in FACTS." Well bully for you, do you have any idea how silly that sounds?

Just remember Bush Never ever said Iraq was responsible for 9-11. Yet at one point the majority of Americans were sure they were.

And as for me? Who cares. I am, and will always remain what you think I am.

You are one confused person. What the heck does Iraq/9-11 have to do with it and I have never said that I care one way or the other who or what you are. Hate to disappoint you, but this isn't about you.

I think Obama has made it very clear that he is a Christian and was never a Muslim.

Your questions about his religious background, stink of the "3RD-Grade-Sean-Insanity-Debate-Level" questions. I hope that's not the circle you run in that deals with facts.

I have a question for you right out of the right's playbook. Please simply answer "Yes" or "No".

Q: Have you stopped beating your wife?

Sounds like an admission of shallow thinking, imo.

Went to Presbyterian Sunday school as a kid. But if asked, I say I'm a Christian and have never been a Presbyterian.

I view Obama's answer the same way. His father was Muslim; the assumption is that he would be Muslim. He was enrolled at a school that had, with other subjects, religion lessons--not comparative religion, but teaching Islam as the faith to be followed. To the extent that society there is religion-based--and if you follow the news, you see that perceived religious identity is important--he was Muslim. Even though he never personally took the shahada and never considered himself a Muslim. Think of it as the difference between one's internal and external life.

Recently there was the case of a woman who was at risk of losing her kids. She said she had converted to Xianity and that her kids were Xian. However, her grandparents had been Muslim. She had never officially had her conversion approved--conversions are never approved--and therefore she was a Muslim. And therefore her kids were Muslims; she was not going to raise them in "their" faith, and custody of the kids would go to their "good" grandparents. "Muslim" is the word attached to a status and to a religious calling, just as "French" indicates citizenship and ethnicity.

Was I Presbyterian when I was a kid? Yes, and no. Depends if you want me to give an answer based on my internal identity ('no') or my external identity ('yes').

are you still using illegal drugs? Yes or no.

You need to consider not only the question asked, but the intent of the questioner.

If someone asks you; "Were you ever baptized a Lutheran?", and they are really simply curious, that is one thing.

If, however, someone asks you "Were you ever baptized a Lutheran?" because a "Yes" answer would allow them to spread all kinds of rediculous and disgusting smears about you, and potentially wreck your future with inuendo, hatred and religious bigotry,...that is something else entirely.

When you know that any answer you give is going to be twisted and fed thru the "Right-Wing-Noise-Machine" in an attempt to smear you, you might be a bit careful about how you answer.

But, I think you already know that.

And again, Why is it anyone's business?

Of all the yes or no questions of faith, that would be one of the most basic. You may have been "drug to the Lutheran church" by your parents, but evidently you were not paying attention.

The most fundamental fact of becoming Christian for 2000 years has been a simple profession of faith -- and baptism. You do not have to be "born Christian" -- as one is born a Jew by having a Jewish mother. That was settled nearly 20 centuries ago. Anyone -- absolutely anyone -- can become a Christian. You have to profess the faith -- openly, preferably, which incidentally Obama has done repeatedly -- and you have to be baptized.

As for your trying to catechize the rest of us with your yes or no questions, how about you do some research into the words that Barack Hussein Obama wrote about himself over a decade ago, before he ever ran for public office? Not everything is on Google or Wikipedia.

In this case the information you seek is in an exceedingly well-written and literate book called "Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance." Available in paperback, $14.95, at any bookstore or your public library. It's all there.

Hekate

Your circle is circling the drain bud.

Okay. Keeping in mind what you just said about yes or no answers, answer this question.

Do you still beat your mother?

Yes or no. When the answer is something else, it shows some sort of deception, think lie detector test here. :sarcasm:

are interested in the "why" behind your question.

As was explained above "madrassa" means "school". Simple as that. Just as "Allah" means "God". But using the Arabic word in our current climate is an insidious way to imply some sort of terrorist connection. It's disgusting, and unfair to all concerned.

The point is, Obama is not and as he says has never been Muslim. The deeper point is, why in the world should it matter one whit if he was? Being Muslim is no indication of a tie to terrorism, any more than being Catholic is. There is no Christian requirement in law for anyone to seek the presidency. And yet, we're all still seeing these vile e-mails full of lies built on implications and bigotry.

He HAS answered truthfully. But the more time he spends answering this nonsense, the less time he has to talk about substantive issues. And his oppponents know that. It's a nice trap. (Not).

Barack went to christian school in a predominantly muslim country, that's what I know.

But it doesn't f-ing matter.

You know, I was glad Hillary won last week but if this kind of crap is how Barack goes down, I'm changing my mind. In fact, I gave to Edwards this week.

"One thing is for certain: It is quite irrelevant to the task at hand of choosing a president so why is it so damn important to you?

As for praying at a mosque - again, who gives a crap? If he did it was as a child or it was as an adult and he was just doing it out of respect just as many Christians would.

These are such childish and sophomoric questions that it defies belief that anyone who understands our system of government would even seriously ask them. The only reasons I can think of that someone would ask them is ignorance or to somehow gain some political advantage by keeping the pot stirred up. What part of the Constitutional mandate of "no religious test for elected or appointed office" do you not understand?"

Don't know much about the electorate in this country, do you?

our constitutional democratic principles and trying to elevate the conversation a bit. Does everything have to be lowest common denominator? And if you are correct that the electorate in this country is going to seriously go for this kind of crap than the Democrats might as well fold up their tent because they cannot compete with the Republicans when it comes to guns, religion, terra, and immigrant

And if the electorate in this country is as uncaring of Constitutional principles as you suggest, we might as well forget it, because we will never out demagogue the Republicans on religion, guns, immigrants, etc. - nor would I even want us to try. Some battles are not worth winning.

If he is the nominee the puke noise machine will use every despicable tool to distract the public from the issues and will be supported by the M$M which thrives on controversy and sensationalism. This would be much dirtier and effective than even the swift-boating of a heroic veteran for showing valor in battle. Obama's candidacy is almost certainly doomed to dealing with smears for the duration.

they've never practiced as a Jew?

Me neither.

We've gotten much, much better in this country in this generation, but it was not always so. In answer to your question: yes, I can imagine that, and so can most people over a certain age.

Hekate

Openly? On a webpage? Spoken with pride?

I can imagine it. The "public web forums" I refer to here are places like fark.com, comment sections on news articles, the Craigslist political forums, and other generalist political places (i.e. neither explicitly right nor left, and often not very well-moderated). There have been posts calling for all Jewish public officials to take a separate oath of loyalty to the US over Israel. There have been posts calling for the registration of "people eligible for dual citizenship with Israel" and their banning from public office. So, yeah, I can forsee it.

Tucker

And you don't see that stuff in polite society.

I don't dispute that cyberland is pretty ugly!

I suspect that once the social pressure to be polite in real life is off--as in a time of scarcity or extreme fear--these sentiments (and more, against any scapegoatable minority--Muslims, Jews, Latinos, gays, and others) will come bubbling to the surface in ordinary public discourse. I think the unmoderated, general politics forums allow a disturbing look into the mass psyche, and it is dreaming dark dreams these days.

Tucker

that's not a good thing.

the ad below this thread "single muslim dot com"!

Meanwhile, the words "Muslim" and "Obama" are etched ever more indelibly into the minds of the public.

Very interesting and something that should be considered in your
choice.


If you do not ever forward anything else, please forward this to all
your contacts...this is very scarey to think of what lies ahead of us
here in our own United States...better heed this and pray about it and share it.

We checked this out on 'snopes.com'. It is factual. Check for yourself.

Who is Barack Obama?

Probable U. S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born
in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM
from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHIEST from
Wichita, Kansas.
Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii. When Obama was two
years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya. His
mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indo nesia. ?
When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocate to Indonesia. Obama
att ended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a
Catholic school.

Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is
quick to point out that, 'He was once a Muslim, but that he also
attended Catholic school.'

Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that
that he is not a radical.

Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this
influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned
to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct
influence over his son's education.

Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham,
introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school
in Jakarta.

Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim
terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since
it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major
public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined
the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim
background. ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he
DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the K oran.

Barack Hussein Obama will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegience nor
will he show any reverence for our flag. While others place their hands
over their hearts, Obama turns his back to the flag and slouches.

Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential
candidacy.

The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside
out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the
President of the United States, one of their own!!!!

Please forward to everyone you know. Would you want this man leading
our country?...... NOT ME!!!




When you check the source listed, (Snopes.com), it lists the claim as false. I emailed the link (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp) to the page debunking that myth back to the person who sent it to me and requested it be forwarded to everyone the original message was sent to.

...and even more in the body. I've received an obnoxious number like this.

If that is the case, perhaps you can do the world a favor by copying all the addresses you can into a new header and passing along the real snopes info.

Thanks for at least enlightening the person who sent this pack of lies to you.

Hekate

youre better off collecting the emails of these idiots and, if you run a business, adding them to your email "distribution" lists - or gathering the emails and selling them to third parties.

i've done both. it feels great. if you can't enlighten them (hint: you can't), profit from their ignorance.

He's battling.

Unlike Kerry, he is not letting himself be Fox News'd or swiftboated.

You can label him as a whiner, but the alternative is to let it lay.

When I went home for Christmas my cousin's husband declared that there's no way he's going to vote for a foreigner for president.

My jaw hit the floor, but it woke me up to just how little soooooo many people expose themselves to news.

No doubt the GOP has this whole thing figured out like a science. They know exactly how perception is formed and what seeds fuels perception.

They know exactly how to manipulate Joe "I like to hunt" Beer Gut, and it doesn't seem to matter how HARD a candidate fights to change it.

Well, that might be so, but Obama WILL fight it and give it his best. He will fight it HARDER than any of the other two candidates.

Edwards is a loss because he never reinvented himself. He's the loser from the '04 loser's ticket. I have not heard reinventing himself.

Hillary ... what a DLC joke.

Any Democrat who votes for her should no without a doubt that she's Republican Lite ... PERIOD.

Obama is establishing the foundation that he's a fighter. He won't grimace at the previous Democratic president, and he will be even more hardcore against whatever Rethug you put in his path. All the while doing it without screaming and freaking out.

He should be our next president.

But obama doesnt turn peoples stomachs the way Hillary does.. and shes way way way more establishment clique..

the internet hoaxes. The rhetorical style is similar with much of the false propaganda. It could be one person or a small group doing this. If we can track it down to a Republican operative or right wing think tank, that would be terrific.

I'm not voting for him for rabbi, I'm voting for him for President. His religion or lack thereof has no bearing on his ability to be a good President.

Tucker

I won't vote for theocrats -- of which the Republican Party shelters many, and the Democratic Party shelters none.

If you want to inform yourself about the nature and dangers of American theocracy, go to Theocracy Watch http://www.theocracywatch.org/

As it stands, I don't care what religion a candidate professes, or whether they profess none, as long as they believe in and will uphold our Constitutional guarantees of freedom.

Hekate

no matter what it is...

would be very effective IMO

mosque with a father, stepfather, grandfather, whatever when he was 5 years old is quite irrelevant. The people who are stirring this up would not be satisfied with him saying "I am not a Muslim." Look at the crap that some are posting on DU about being "born Muslim".

And in fact he has said he is not a Muslim. The quote is in the OP. But that will not satisfy the swift boaters.

It's the underlying assumption that being Muslim is somehow a bad thing.

Hateful, just hateful.

I wish that everyone could comprehend that he is trying to counter a smear campaign, and is not embracing theocracy.

Oh, and then there was the poster who asked me "which apostle was named Hussein?" I asked what the hell kind of question that was, and am still awaiting the answer.

The US has a lot of religious bigotry to deal with on all sides, including the anti-religious kind so prevalent at DU.

Hekate

is already a liability in this country?

Way to go religious wackos.

That is the way these fuck nuts think. These wacko christians are so disgusting and un Christ like. Christ would shit in their living room for even invoking his name. He hates these ignorant PIGS. The USA is fucked up.

At least the Xtians won't chop off your head for bashing their #1 or chosing NOT to believe .

Can't say it would be a smart thing to piss on a Koran in the land of Mohammad.

would it?

give me liberty or ----->

religion isn't worth losing your head over ;)

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=25090

better to not even bring it up

I doubt they will start head chopping next week . No way they can pick up where the muslim world remain 'a head above' all others


/sarc

In fact, our system is set up specifically so that majority doesn't rule. The rights of minority individuals are protected from the tyranny of the majority.

They piled on.

:wank: :eyes:

HE IS DA BEST

for his insulting Islam that way.

/sarc ;)