Old JFK documents may stir controversy

Source: Reuters

A batch of old documents linked to the slaying of President John F. Kennedy has reportedly been unearthed, including a highly suspect transcript of a conversation between assassin Lee Harvey Oswald and Oswald's killer Jack Ruby, the Dallas Morning News said on Sunday.

The newspaper said the Dallas County district attorney's office, which uncovered the documents, would display its discovery at a news conference on Monday morning.

The Morning News said the items found in an old safe in a Dallas courthouse included personal letters from former District Attorney Henry Wade, the prosecutor in the Ruby trial. Ruby shot Oswald two days after the president's death.

(snip)
But one potentially controversial item is a transcript of an exchange between Oswald and Ruby in which they discuss killing Kennedy to halt the mafia-busting agenda of his brother, Attorney General Robert Kennedy.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080217/us_nm/usa_jfk_documents_dc_2

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Exclusive: Dallas County DA's office finds cache of JFK memorabilia
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/021708dnmetjackruby.3bde49f.html

watching all reports and proceedings, and I clearly remember a report that Ruby and Oswald already knew each other. Can't prove it, no link, no other details, but that report I recall.

http://crimemagazine.com/03/richardnixon,1014.htm

This is part of the history of secret government that we're not supposed to know about.

Went there for a dinner not too long ago and didn't know it's history til then. The owner of the place was with the mob and it was where Ruby met w/ owner Joe Campisi the night before JFK was killed (last minute details being discussed, maybe?). Pretty freaky going there cuz they have JFK magazine covers up on the wall so it's not like they try to hide the restaurant's history/owner-Ruby connection. Then Campisi was Ruby's first visitor in jail right after he was arrested.

http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/id153.htm

Joe Campisi was Ruby's first visitor after his imprisonment for murdering the President's alleged assassin. (Incredibly, the Dallas Police did not record the ten-minute conversation between Oswald's murderer and a man known to be a close associate of Carlos Marcello's deputy in Dallas.) Campisi brought his wife along with him--an unusual move, for Mafiosi almost never include their wives in meetings at which urgent matters are to be discussed, however obliquely. Former Chief Counsel Blakey speculates that Campisi brought his wife along so as not to arouse the police's suspicion. When questioned by the Assassinations Committee as to what Ruby said during their meeting, Campisi did not recall much but did remember vividly what had already become Ruby's stock answer to the question of why he killed Oswald: to spare Jacqueline Kennedy and her children the pain of an eventual trial of Lee Harvey Oswald. (Later a handwritten note of Ruby's to one of his attorneys was discovered in which Ruby admitted he was lying, that a former attorney, Tom Howard, a friend of Campisi's, told him to use the Jacqueline Kennedy story as an alibi.)

Mama mia, that's a spicy meatballa!

and on assignment by the elite ---

and this is also a big theme throughout Iran-Contra. Felix Rodriguez is a common figure and drug-running operations also involved the Mob.

The Mafia work for corrupt government doing corrupt things . . . !!!

there are actually official documents detailing why the CIA was working with organized crime in anti-Castro operations. They actually tried to justify some of the corruption.

Do I doubt that some of the CIA idiots actually thought that JFK was a "communist" . . . ???

What we really need to get rid of are those who make weapons and uniforms --- !!!

Look at the situation where Brz now tells us that "WE went into Afghanistan 6 months before
the Russians came in" . . . "in order to BAIT the Russians into Afghanistan" . . .
"in hopes of giving them a Vietnam-type experience." !!!!

And Bush has now made WAR the way of the world . . . !!!!

He's close to setting the entire world on fire with war --- !!!

Am I exaggerating . . . ???

The Mafia are peons who do what they're told when the elites come along ---
In fact, they couldn't exist without the cooperation of the elites ---
and corrupt law enforcement.

and that Oswald was "employed by the CIA working on high level assignments and probably also for the FBI."

Ruby also had dark ties to government, some going back to Nixon's investigation of Hiss ---

Ferrie also had early ties to Oswald --- Air Patrol --- and to the CIA ---

Here's a YouTube connection to Judyth Baker's story ... TMWKK ---
alleged mistress of Oswald --- and how she was solicited by the CIA to work
on cancer experiments -- including her work with Oswald and Ferrie
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Judyth+Baker+and+Oswald&search_type=

As soon as JFK gets mentioned, all the wackos come out of the woodwork.

Has it occured to anybody that maybe we're never going to get a coherent narrative about the JFK story because there isn't a coherent narrative? A bunch of stupid and crazy people were running around doing stupid and crazy things. You cannot build a coherent narrative out of that.

Typical example. Conspiracy theorists try to make a big thing out of the tramps hanging around the rail yard. I just did a google on "jfk tramps" and came up with 16,800 hits. I used to live near a rail yard. You know what? There were tramps hanging around it. They get into empty cars to sleep out of the elements. They're such a huge problem the CNR put big fucking barbed wire fences up to keep them out and they still hang around. That's what tramps do. Why?? Because they're stupid!!! They get pulled in and their explanation for what they're doing is basically "I was hanging around the train yard because I was hanging around the train yard." You cannot get a coherent narrative for their activities because they are incapable of coming up with a coherent narrative.

This is one of my big complaints about the Reid technique. It's a methodology used by police to interrogate suspects until they brainwash them into coming out with a nice, neat little story the police can write into their report and close the case. Most of the time it's complete bullshit - a false confession.

I've worked with city police in a variety of scenarios. The best ones say that for the majority of cases the "coherent narrative" is "shit happens". Otherwise they'll go bugfuck insane. Which, by the way, describes many conspiracy theorists.

That's why there's no such word.

:shrug:

There's good evidence for LIHOP, I haven't ruled out MIHOP and I'm one of the leads in RRR.

Hell, I think SOMETHING happened with JFK, just you can't figure it out from all the noise generated by the righteously stupid and the fucking insane.

Like conspiracy to commit fraud, conspiracy to commit murder, if it can be proven you can be charged with conspiracy to commit a crime provided the evidence is there that you and others were conspiring to commit a crime.

Of course we have laws against CONSPIRACY . . . .
it actually happens all the time!!!

... but you seem to either be totally unaware of all that or deluding yourself ---

Rather, what we see is that as soon as the coup on JFK gets mentioned, all the apologists who know nothing come out of the woodwork to prove to us that they know nothing.

Has it occurred to you that we already have quite coherent insight into the coup on JFK?
Though you suggest "a bunch of stupid and crazy people" so I imagine you are pointing to a cospiracy?

How many tramps look so like E. Howard Hunt that even his own son was STUNNED when he saw the poster
and recognized immediately that it was his father --- ????????????

How many "tramps" are that well clothed and fed? Groomed?

And, I don't think I'd be quoting any police with the record they have building and building of
dragging in anyone to fill a slot for a crime committed -- we have people all over the prison
system abused, raped and locked up for smoking a plant!!! Not to mention the many being released
because of false charges against them --- even those on death row.

If we ever succeed in fully investigating Bush regime and TORTURE, we can perhaps then turn to our own prisons and the torture happening there.

That is why they made a big deal about it...I guess they didn't know that tramps always have new shoes...

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/judyth.htm

If you absolutely insist upon a coherent narrative about Judyth's life you can do it in one word. "Crackpot".

:rofl:

The stuff on his site makes a lot more sense than most.

because, certainly, the official version is codswallop..

The same thing has happened that always happens, the same thing that will happen with Chimpy: The evidence is lost or surpressed or both, the witnesses get old and start to die off and gradually, the memory starts to fade, the wounds heal over and the file is officially closed.

....an Oliver Stone movie. People who didn't live thru the whole thing will think the Oliver Stone version is gospel truth.

It was about Jim Garrison not JFK, And I followed the case that Garrison made closely back then.

It's partly what the JFK movie was based on plus HIGH TREASON I and II --
which I'd highly recommend by Livingstone and Grodin ---
and the wonderful CROSSFIRE by Jim Marrs --- highly, highly recommend.

But, Garrison and his books still are very powerful --- that's why they fought him so hard ---

Oliver Stone got much of it --- I have no complaints with his JFK movie ---

He hit the nail on the head ---

and gave a lot of people in power still trying to keep this covered up a big headache ---!!!

As I understand it, Stone's film was more about Garrison's crusade than it was about JFK.

But such is the way of things. Stone's film might have hit upon some genuine points (despite twenty years in conspiracy research, I never had much interest in JFK) but the version that will be remembered is the sanitised, simplified version. Watergate is the same way. Watergate was bloody complicated but in the public memory, it's gone down as simply a burglary.

Look around the internet -- there are lots of good sites ---
and most of the information has been pretty nailed down for decades ---

And look around you at who profitted ---

LBJ

Oil industry, for one ---

Warmakers ---

Right wing ---

Religious fanatics ---

I'm still convinced the CIA was behind it all. The magic bullet is what gets me...

(and who doesn't love a good conspiracy theory?)

I can't wait for all of the JFK documents to be released (2032, I believe).

:sarcasm:

Zapruder film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G_Zxup7esU

I might be dead by then. And I was a year old when he was assassinated.

Why is it not until 2032 that the documents will be opened?

...and barring any unforseen tragic accident, I fully expect to be alive AND cognizent in 2032. I'll only be 77 by then, you'll be younger.

Let's meet @ the national archives when they open it up. By then, I should have rocket launchers on my wheelchair!

:hi:

despite the fact that nobody could account for GHWB's whereabouts on that day in November ... and "Warren Commission" member Gerald R. Ford was elevated to VP status by the man that JFK humiliated in the 1960 election ...

and remember that Howard Hunt was in the White House trying to forge cables to make it look like
JFK had ordered the assassination of the Diem brothers in VN --- !!!

The press has never really explained the why not of the "magic bullet" ---

The wound in JFK's back was actually in his right shoulder and at a 45 degree DOWNWARD angle ---
so there is no way in hell that it has anything to do with the neck wound.
FURTHER, the neck wound had no exit --
and the shoulder wound had no exit ---

and Arlen Specter and those who created the myth should be in jail ---

:tinfoilhat:

But weren't they supposed to open up some classified documents that people believe might link Bush's daddy to the killing. I think I read it at Consortium News. It would seem kinda of a coinky dink that this would just be "unearthed" now. :tinfoilhat:

or Operation 40.

its hard to keep up with that asshat.

be opened NOW. I mean for God's sake, pretty much everyone who could have been involved is dead. What could it hurt? The people want to know.

I don't know if it's possible, even with an act of congress. I'm not familiar with how the laws pertaining to classified material work.

But doesn't 75 years seem like an excessive length of time to classify records from a what was essentially a murder investigation? Is it any wonder people don't trust the conclusions of the Warren Commission when they obviously hid information for a generation?

Of course, this is just a pipe dream. What's more likely to happen is that when 2032 comes around, they'll find a reason to RE-classify it.

Maybe the whole fascist regime in power today would be exposed as responsible for the assassination. The coup didn't just happen in 2000, it began when Kennedy was nurdered.

the paperwork from RFK's assassination due to "not having enough space." :sarcasm:

Poppy Bush is still alive and they might find a link to him and JFK. I believe that in the 92 debate with Bill Clinton he said he didn't remember where he was that day JFK got shot, but this link could prove him to be lying.
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush2.htm
Also on youtube look up LBJ mistress she has a lot to say about the night before Kennedy was killed.

:hi:

Everybody remembers where they were when Kennedy was shot.

Mrs. Mewhinney's 6th grade class, Oak Forest Elementary. Why is our teacher crying? we wondered as we walked home. Then Mother told me when I walked in the door.

And Poppy DOESN'T? When he was sort of, like, you know, vaguely INVOLVED in keeping the president safe?

... but of course if you ask him, the "George Bush, CIA Agent from Houston" referred to in a couple memo's uncovered by the FBI dude who was 'handling' Oswald prior to Nov '63, was a different George Bush, not the Popster. :eyes:

:tinfoilhat: :hide:

only our teacher wrote on the board The President Is Dead. We were sent home. I'll never forget that day.

and Welcome, BBSS!

Neil Bush was scheduled to have dinner with John Hinckley's brother the night Poppy almost became President when Reagan was shot.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hinckley,_Jr.

So many astonishing coincidences.

My local library has an old record about the assassination with the interview on it.

I heard it years ago and forgot what he was talking about.

I thought that truth would win and that eventually we'd all know exactly what happened. I don't feel that way about government conspiracies anymore.

that part America has never acknowledged --- i.e., the political violence of the past 40 years and more.

That is the question, that must be looked into.

If I was actually looking into this; I would assume Ruby was part of the plot to kill the president. Why? The MSM account that Ruby was a liberal; simply false.

During that time, Ruby as far I recall was a nightclub owner,in Texas -- if it had been made public that he was a liberal he would of lost 95% of his business. Secondly, Ruby worked for Nixon; Nixon was a liberal?

Not that it doesn't matter who, but you don't stop at that.. are maybe don't even start there. It's why. Why.

Actually, a professional would be able to find a goldmine of information, by simply asking that very good question of yours.

I would start looking at all the available public data, about all Ruby's business, and political connections, etc. Ruby worked for Nixon, now that is toxic. One does not simply get to work for Nixon, by walking into the campaign office, they are screened.

Who interviewed Ruby from Nixon's office? Are they still alive, to interview today?

Even more importantly, who did ask these questions back then; and who will today? And did anyone prevent these questions from being addressed? If so, why?

these questions back then, isn't some of the info closed to the public, only to be available in 2032 (btw, I thought the availability date was changed to 2028 during the time (1970's?) when congress decided JFK assassination was a possible conspiracy.)

Most definitions of "why" end up talking about reason.

When you talk about reason you end up talking about causality and narrative with the assumption that there exists a coherent, causal narrative to explain something.

For many people the correct answer to "why did you...?" is "because I'm too fucking stupid to breathe".

not another FDR in JFK --- who ran on a Democratic Platform which called for nationalizing America's oil --- !!!

For one . . .

LBJ was also about to be thrown into jail ---

they couldn't have done this without the power of the presidency ---

LBJ had a pattern of moving people out of his way . . . and had at least one guy to do it ---
Malcolm Wallace ---

but I hear over the years he solicited others, as well ---

LBJ used to take visitors to his ranch out in the dark of night to hunt and he'd take them
up into a tower in the woods --- and then he'd throw these huge spotlights on and there would
be deer caught in the lights --- all ready for shooting --- !!!

It's long so if you have dial up watch it at a friend's.

http://giztv.com/2007/11/24/jfk-ii/

No way in hell Oswald was the lone assassin. More likely he was set up to be the scapegoat.

he then sent Bobby after them. Not smart.

My dad would be a little over a hundred if he were living today born in 1910, he knew Texas very well,he was born and raised in Georgia.His first words after he heard of Kennedys death were. Oh my God they have killed him in Texas so they will have time to get in and clean it up before the Fed's can get there...

MuY theory is he was killed by defense contractors, just a few weeks ago, I rerad that Kennedy was angry one day in a meeting and said I am going to bring the boys home and stop the war, this was nothing recorded just words in anger, the person wrote with in two or three weeks Kennedy was dead.. the article read. Sort of rem inds one of Ike's last words about defense contractors and oil men.

I know I sound naive, but isn't Honesty, the best policy? I would like it to be a Felony, if anyone in our Executive, Legislative, or Judicial Branches Lie to the American People. I would like it to be a Felony that the Executive Branch, and the Judicial Branch are not allowed to behave in a partisan manner. Naive? Well when you consider all of the Lies, and Secrets that simply cover partisan, and special interests, maybe my idea enacted is a necessity.

sometimes mentioned as one of the shooters ---
but certainly a criminal type hooked up with Ruby ---

I just read parts of it....it is obviously a fake. First of all, Ruby and Oswald have strong different political opinions. Ruby a McCarthy -- Nixon anti liberal, anti communist Repuke; and Ruby a Red Communist. They frankly would never even be in the same room together, let alone talk to each other, even if they were part of some grand conspiracy.

* Son of Prescott "Skull & Boner Banker to Hitler and the Nazis" Bush, and the father of Commander AWOL Skull & Boner Bush, the first National Guard deserter ever to steal the pResidency of the USA and lie our US sons and daughters in uniform into a brutal Oil Profits Crusade.

If there truly was a smoking gun...bad choice of words...or memo showing conspiracy, how many people would believe it? We would all seek to find reason to disbelieve what is given to us, so much is our lack of faith in our government/the powers that be. This is one of those mysteries that will never be solved in the cultural consciousness, even if some people think they have all the pieces of the puzzle.

4 hours ago

DALLAS (AP) — Long-hidden items and documents relating to the 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy are being revealed for the first time in decades.

Dallas County District Attorney Craig Watkins presented the items at a news conference Monday. Watkins says they were locked in a safe for nearly two decades and that investigators had made him aware of them after he took office in 2006.

Among the items are documents relating to Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald and his killer, Jack Ruby, including a transcript of a purported conversation between them about killing the president. Curator Gary Mack of the Sixth Floor Museum near where the president was shot hasn't seen the transcript but doubts it is real.

The items also include Ruby's brown leather gun holster, two brass knuckles found on Ruby when he was arrested and a movie contract former Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade signed.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hybrZ1gy0HbS3jViswJ3W8NpAuigD8USRRR80

By LESLIE EATON and JOHN SULLIVAN
Published: February 18, 2008

DALLAS — After more than 40 years under lock and key, a large collection of documents and items related to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy was released by the Dallas County district attorney on Monday.

The district attorney, Craig Watkins, officially unveiled 15 boxes that had been stored in a walk-in safe on the 10th floor of the Dallas County Courthouse. The boxes held a grab bag of memorabilia, from Lee Harvey Oswald’s clothing to a tooled leather holster used to carry a gun by Oswald’s killer, Jack Ruby.

“We decided that this information is too important to keep secret,” Mr. Watkins said.

Mr. Watkins said he learned of the documents soon after taking office a year ago. Although his predecessors had chosen to keep the material secret, Mr. Watkins said he saw no reason to do so. The material is now being scanned and will eventually be donated to a museum that can make it public, he said. Mr. Watkins said a museum had not yet been selected, but he mentioned the Smithsonian, in Washington, or the Sixth Floor Museum, in Dallas, as two possibilities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/18/us/18cnd-dallas.html?em&ex=1203483600&en=44bfe43e35510fe1&ei=5087%0A

Source: Telegraph UK

But most attention has been focused on the transcript of a conversation said to be between Ruby and Oswald at the former's nightclub on Oct 4, 1963, less than two months before the killing on Nov 22.

In it, they talked of killing the president because the Mafia wanted to "get rid of" his brother. Oswald is recorded as saying: "I can still do it, all I need is my rifle and a tall building; but it will take time, maybe six months to find the right place; but I'll have to have some money to live on while I do the planning."



Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/18/wjfk218.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox

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Who doesn't love a good conspiracy theory these days?

Even on the sensational Oliver Stone 'JFK ' film, which pulled out all the stops on the known theories, I dont recall that one ...

Said that she saw Oswald and Ruby talking at his club, but how did they get the transept of that conversation? She said noting of what they were talking about.

But I still believe what he said "I'm just a Patsy" He was set up to take the fall for it. Watch the movie where they put all the pieces of the puzzle together. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2928756561478705121 you can order the DVD here http://www.jfkii.com/default.php
In this video they relate how Oswald worked for both the CIA and the FBI he went with David Ferrie and others running Operation 40 Bobby told Hover to shut down Op 40 and every where Oswald went with the CIA contacts the FBI soon followed to close down.

One of the biggest give aways is the video showing the SS driver he is constantly looking back at JFK instead of hitting the gas he ducks around and waits for the head shot before flooring it.

I like how the last 15 minutes go into the 'why they killed him' question, it all starts to make sense once the why is understood.

off. Anyone who believes the "official" version is a dunce or doing coverup big time.
:puke:

Drawing executed by Bell for the ARRB
"Audrey Bell gave me a very explicit description of the flap, which was lifted for her by one of the doctors to show her the large defect. She is very sure that it was hinged at the top, and not at the bottom as in the photograph. She told me numerous times that "there was a lot of scalp missing in the back though."
Autopsy personnel have also described this flap in extensive detail. James Metzler described it in exactly the same place and facing the same way as did Bell, to both myself and Mark Crouch, in the studios of WCHE, Crouch's radio station, in West Chester, Pennsylvania, on May 1, 1991. The description was repeated to me in the same detail by Jerrol Custer.7 Dr. Robert McClelland also described this flap, but every one of these witnesses, and more, insists that it was hanging downward, hinged at the top to the left."



Don T. Curtis, D.D.S.: "The drawing by Dr. Robert McClelland is essentially my recollection of the wound suffered by John F. Kennedy."

RICHARD BROOKS DULANEY, MD:" The wound was on the back of his head. On the back side" They lifted up the head and "the whole back-side was gone." (Groden R., Livingston, H., High Treason. 1989 New York, Berkley Books, p.460.)

CHARLES CRENSHAW, MD: It extended from the approximate center of the skull in the back to just behind the right ear, utilizing a left to right orientation and from a position a couple of inches above the right ear to the approximate middle of the right ear utilizing a top to bottom orientation." (FBI file # 89A-DL-60165-99)


Which is consistent with the an exit wound! The head shot was from the front!

this is still the saddest day in the history of this country. This is the one event where EVERYTHING changed.

We'll be reeling from the Bush putsch for generations.

we, also were sent home...

Garrison was on target, else why would the govt smear and try to destroy him?
Why couldn't they just call him a crackpot and be done with it?

And, oh, the "magic bullit"....For the first time in the HISTORY of the universe, the laws of physics on a moving object didn't apply.

The witnesses that SWORE they saw, and heard, shots from the "grassy knoll", just normal people...why would they lie?

the god damned repukes killed him, and I'll believe that till the day I die.