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Obama May Produce $1 Trillion Deficit, Gross (manager of the world's biggest bond fund) Says

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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:01 AM
Original message
Obama May Produce $1 Trillion Deficit, Gross (manager of the world's biggest bond fund) Says
Source: Bloomberg

June 30 (Bloomberg) -- Bill Gross, manager of the world's biggest bond fund, said a Barack Obama administration may produce the first $1 trillion deficit and intermediate-and long- term bond yields have already reached cyclical lows.

Higher taxes for hedge-fund managers and oil companies will not cover anticipated Obama tax cuts for the poor and middle- class, universal health care and aid to the depressed residential real estate market, said Gross, a long-time Republican.

``This economy will need a jolt of $500 billion or so of government spending real quick,'' Gross, co-chief investment officer of Newport Beach, California-based Pimco, said in an open letter to Obama, the likely Democratic presidential nominee, published on the company's Web site today.

The likely expenditures and increased borrowing suggest that ``intermediate and long-term yields on government bonds have already bottomed and will gradually rise'' through the next four years and possibly beyond, Gross said, in his analysis that assumes Obama will defeat his presumptive Republican adversary, John McCain.

Gross domestic investment in machines, houses and inventories has fallen by $200 billion since its 2006 peak, Gross said. Domestic consumption will soon be $300 billion short of what's needed for an economic rejuvenation, he said. With the deficit already pushing $500 billion even before the next president is sworn in, Gross anticipates it will reach $1 trillion deficit by 2011.

Republicans ``will blame you for years and label you `Trillion-Dollar Obama,''' Gross said. ``There is, in fact, not much that you or any other President can do.''

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=agZRgoesQxmQ&refer=home
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Gross is a very, very smart guy.
He is not to be ignored.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Here's what Bill Gross really said in a "Letter to Obama" different from OP's post from Bloomberg...
Edited on Mon Jun-30-08 12:38 PM by KoKo01
Investment Outlook
Bill Gross | July 2008


Thought I would jot down this little note to President Obama.
It’s a little presumptive of course; first that he’ll even be President (he will)
and second that he’d read it (he won’t). But presumptiveness is an inherent
requirement of an investment manager and so I shall proceed.


Dear President Obama:

You have inherited a mess. Your predecessor, fixated on emulating a former Republican icon from a far different economic era, chose to emphasize tax cuts for the rich and excessive consumption for all Americans. He promoted deregulation and free markets when, in fact, the markets and their institutions needed tough love. Over eight years, he failed to put forth a coherent energy policy. He needlessly invaded Iraq and lowered worldwide esteem for this nation as a symbol of freedom and benevolence.



But enough about W’s spilt milk. I’ve already ticked off so many readers that they’re questioning my Republican Party voter registration. What do I think you should do as the new President to rectify this mess? All I know is that any solution will come with a high price tag. Although your campaign slogan says “Yes we can,” I have my doubts. Granted, you’re going to raise tax rates on the rich, give a break to the lower/middle class and rebalance the scales of economic justice somewhat. I myself won’t enjoy paying that near 50 percent marginal tax rate after you remove the current cap on the payroll tax, but my wealthy neighbors and I in Newport Beach should just look at it this way: we’ve had an eight-year lease extension on the “high life.” Now it’s time to give something back and I suspect we won’t be working any less hard. That ol’ Laffer Curve has a certain logic to it, but it only makes sense at the upper margin. People did work less at confiscatory tax rates imposed pre-Thatcher/Reagan but once they got down to 50 percent or lower, it was all gravy – promoting conspicuous consumption as opposed to higher productivity and overtime at the office. Gosh, now we don’t even want those oversized trophy houses! The New York Times reports that the high-profile crowd now favors small ecologically certified “LEED” houses – “Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design.” My, what green eyes we have, Grandma!




Anyway, so you’re gonna do the tax thing, Mr. President, and throw in some form of universal healthcare to boot that your buddy Hillary will help spearhead. You hope you can get a lot of this passed despite a potentially long string of filibusters from a Senate that won’t quite have sixty Democrats. In addition, you’ll need to provide some immediate relief to homeowners in the form of FHA (Federal Housing Administration) subsidies and low mortgage rate loans that somehow have been studied and studied in Congress for the past six months yet still haven’t been passed into law. By January, home prices will be down another 10 percent or so and our Japanese-style property deflation will be in full stride. Congress will have had its summer recess though and spent September and October on the campaign trail. They had to get re-elected you know, so those homeowners just had to wait.



But you’ll have your tax bill and your healthcare bill and your housing fix, and somehow it’ll all be paid for by wealthy hedge fund managers, oil companies or, pray tell, a robust economy that’s creating good jobs at home instead of exporting them abroad. Uh, I don’t think so, Mr. President. That’s where the “yes we can” morphs into “no we can’t.” Not that you won’t accomplish most of that – the robust economy and the good jobs notwithstanding. It’s just that you won’t be able to pay for it and it’s better to admit it now as opposed to later. No David Stockman confessions in your administration. You’re smarter than Ronald Reagan and too nice of a guy to distort reality like King George. So let’s start out by dropping all of that “budget neutral” rhetoric and admit where we’re headed. Your administration will produce this nation’s first trillion dollar deficit!



While the Republicans will blame you for years and label you “Trillion Dollar Obama” in future campaigns, there is in fact not much that you or any other President can do. You’ve inherited an asset-based economy whose well has been pumped nearly dry with lower and lower interest rates and lender of last resort liquidity provisions that have managed to support Ponzi-style prosperity in recent years. Foreign lenders have cooperated by purchasing Treasuries at yields which when combined with dollar depreciation have resulted in negative returns on their money. Even if these charades continue (and they may not), their stimulative effects – their magical powers to transform a 110-pound weakling into a Charles Atlas/Arnold Schwarzenegger mensch of an economy – are gone. What you need now is fiscal spending and lots of it. No ordinary Starbucks will do, Mr. President, you need to step up for a six-pack of Red Bull.



Now I know, Mr. President, that you’re already addicted to those nicotine smokes and I’m not trying to promote a caffeine habit here, but this economy will need an additional jolt of $500 billion or so of government spending real quick. It must replace both reduced residential investment and consumption whose decline has placed the U.S. economy near, if not in a recession. Some quick math for you Sir: gross private domestic investment (machines, houses, inventories) has declined by $200 billion since its peak in late 2006. Due to higher unemployment and energy costs, domestic consumption will soon be $300 billion less than it should be if we are to return to historical economic growth rates. According to that old C + I + G formula (scratch the trade deficit for now) when C + I is reduced by $500 billion, then G should increase by that amount in order to fill the gap. The G, Sir, is you – the government deficit, the fiscal stabilizer popularized by Keynes following the Depression. And since the fiscal deficit for 2008 is likely to press $500 billion even before you take the oath of office, well there you have it: $500 billion + $500 billion = $1 trillion big ones, probably by sometime in 2011 or so. It takes time to spend those types of bucks.




http://www.pimco.com/LeftNav/Featured+Market+Commentary/IO/2008/IO+July+2008.htm


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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Oh my God KoKo, this is priceless. I am so thrilled this came from
A respected intelligent Republican. WOW!! K/R
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Reading what he really said is real eye-opener as to what he thinks of Bush...
and his econmic policies, doesn't it. :D That Bloomberg article is a real bit of disinformation.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. So according to this guy, Laffer Curve Suppply Side Econ only works with tax cuts for "the rich"
Tax cuts for "the little people" will not "grow us out of the deficit" (according to supply-siders any way).

If so, Gross is a twit...or the Supply-Siders are twits - or both.
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Thanks. I read some of the actual letter.
When Gross talks about our fiscal situation, the bond market and interest rates, as I said, he is not to be ignored.

Compared to Gross, stooges like Greenspan and Bernanke are in kindergarden.

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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. Thanks for the knockout full letter. nt
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. What a completely misleading headline.
The next president is going to inherit the mess that 28 years of almost uninterrupted Reagonomic Idiocy has done to our republic. It does not matter who that president is, he is going to be stuck with it. At least an Obama administration is not going to simply bullshit its way through the crisis,
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ryanmuegge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Misleading is an understatement.
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Part of the Grover Norquist plan, run the debt up so much the next Administration
has to cut back drastically, irritating the population by trying to fix the previous mess. The GOP plan is to let the Democratic Administration try to stabilize things, deamonize them with the usual talking points and restart the cycle again until we are drowned in a bathtub of debt, hence we then have to get rid of the "entitlements" like Social Security.

I hate it too, but we need to be aware of it.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
3. He probably will
Fixing the mess that Chimpy (and to a lesser extent, his predeccessors) left behind is going to cost a fortune and, at least for a while, the defecit is likely to go up. Of course, it wouldn't matter who was in office, you'd still have the same problem under a President Hillary or a President Edwards (McCain will just ignore it).
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
4. Translation: he's going to tax us rich folks so we're going to scare the pants off you.nt
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. No he's saying Obama has got to pour money into America....and that will raise
Edited on Mon Jun-30-08 12:52 PM by KoKo01
the deficit but he must do it so the economy can recover. He's saying Obama will be blamed for this but it's the correct thing to do. Says Obama inherited such a mess he doesn't have any other recourse but to do that. Bill Gross knows what he's talking about and says in his letter to OBAMA how many hits that he (Gross) has taken from Repugs over his views on this.
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zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
5. I feel stupid. I dont understand the concepts in the article.
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. Forget the stupid article. Read the actual letter, quoted in post #11.
Yes, there are a few things you probably won't understand, but I think you'll get the main points.

Post your questions and I;ll try to answer. It's worthwhile, this is important stuff.
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. I'm not the sharpest knife in the
box when it comes to economics, and it made complete sense to me. Seriously, the letter is clear, sharp and pulls no punches.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. What did Bush inherit becoming president - what is he leaving from his 'leadership'...
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. how much debt has georgee produced
FOR NOTHING???
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Shoelace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. not for nothing - we are "rebuilding Iraq" afterall
and letting America's infrastructure crumble at an amazingly speedy rate.
I just read a whole list of projects from flood control to senior citizen homes to new hospitals for Iraqis going on right now. I was so irate by the time I read the whole list of awarded contracts, I nearly had a total meltdown!

Billions being spent over there while our country falls into 3rd world status.
Yet another reason to fight like hell to get Obama elected!
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ummm... if I'm reading this correctly, the guy is saying that *either* Obama or McCain ....
.... will necessarily have a deficit of $1 trillion in order to turn the economy around.

Seems like a Republican trying to stoke fears, to me.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Yes...he's saying Obama MUST raise the Deficit to make the country Healthy again....
He says Obama must do it...but he will take hits for doing it...even though it's the correct thing.
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YankmeCrankme Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. He would reduce some of that deficit spending by reducing...
the military outlays about $400 billion by cutting military spending and eliminating the Iraq and Afghan wars. Probably save a bundle more by reducing Homeland Security, too.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. "said Gross, a long-time Republican"
well, okay then.

dp
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Maineman Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. Is Gross a swift-boater or comedian?
How much did he donate to Bush and McCain?
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Juan_de_la_Dem Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. E-Mail Cathy Zachariahs(Writer) and let her know her Headline is Out of Line
Czachariahs1@bloomberg.net
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. Yes...and not only her "Headline" but what she "snipped" of the Letter from Gross to Obama...
Good point you make to hold that "reporter's" feet to fire over such a misleading snip and headline!

:thumbsup:
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. I sent her the original..
that KoKo01 posted. Thought she might want to re-read it.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
17. as opposed to 2 trillion for McSame
I guess he means.
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-30-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
27. let's get that 60% PLEASE!
Real Majority!!
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
30. Wait a minute ... I thought Deficits Good
Hasn't that been the meme of the GOP for years? Now deficit for good is bad. Of course
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-01-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
31. Have to pay for the 8 years of failure of BushCo somehow! nt
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