Russia Warns Of Military Response If US-Czech Missile Defense Agreement Ratified

Source: Associated Press

MOSCOW: Russia's will be forced to make a military response if the U.S.-Czech missile defense agreement is ratified, the Foreign Ministry said Tuesday.

The statement came hours after U.S. and Czech officials reached an initial agreement on deploying elements of a missile defense system in the Eastern European country.

Russia says the system would severely undermine European security balances by weakening Russia's missile capacity.

If the agreement is ratified, "we will be forced to react not with diplomatic, but with military-technical methods," the Foreign Ministry statement said. It did not give specifics of what the response would entail.

In February, then-President Vladimir Putin said Russia could aim missiles toward prospective missile defense sites and deploy missiles in the Baltic Sea region of Kaliningrad, which borders Poland, if the missile defense plan went forward.

Read more: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/07/08/europe/EU-Russia-Missile-Defense.php

He seems intent on provoking Russia which he already has in his postion on Iran. Reality is he is still the little boy in Midland sticking firecrackers in the mouths of frogs and tossing them in the air and enjoying watching them explode. If given the opportunity, he will start World War III. And what is frightening about that is that Congress might yet give him the opportunity.

republic and their approval rating (Rasmussen) might not be mired in the single-digit range. :D

4 hours ago

PRAGUE (AFP) — US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice arrived in Prague Tuesday to sign a missile defence deal opposed by Moscow and to warn Russia to stop allegedly stoking separatist tensions in Georgia.

Beginning a three-country European tour that will also take her to Georgia, Rice arrived to a backdrop of protesters who objected to the Czech government's decision to accept the siting of the US anti-missile radar system there.

"We have said both Georgia and Russia need to avoid provocative behaviour but frankly some of the things the Russians did over the last couple of months added to tension in the region," Rice said, citing Russia's failure to consult with Georgia over a presidential order offering Abkhazia direct relations with Russia.

"Georgia is an independent state. It has to be treated like one," she added.

Latent tensions between Tbilisi and Moscow over the separatist regions of both Abkhazia and South Ossetia have flared up over the last week.

"I want to make very clear that the US commitment to Georgia's territorial integrity is strong," the Secretary of State said.

AFP: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hDAjnOvbu5ctTUGTEoebK4-fLfKQ

"Georgia is an independent state. It has to be treated like one," she (Rice) added.

:sarcasm:

More countries should refuse to allow military bases.

Peace.

Doesn't this administration realize we have nowhere near the power we once had?

So add Russia to the list?

Like "humiliated", for example? But they're like children in that way: push, push, push.... Until Uncle Vlad lowers the boom.

Condi must think US MSM-stye bullsh*t will work in the rest of the world. Academic accreditations, it seems, are no barrier to stupidity, when the person's assumptions are haywire.

especially against Russia - the imbalance has never been greater.

...it was just too profitable to let go of it

those days are over.

Can you imagine the furor that would result if Russia were working on some sort of defense pact, or putting some sort of missile defense in Cuba, Mexico, Nicaragua, or even Venezuela?

Why do you think the US should be free to do whatever it wants so close to Russia's borders? What possible need is there for a missile defense system in the Czech Republic, or any of the other former Warsaw Pact nations? This is nothing more than a "fuck you" to Russia, anyone with any common sense can see that.

whether they like it or not. And there would be no furor if the Russians wanted a missle defense in this hemisphere for the simple reason they don't have the power to do so. And they know it.

Nice fucking attitude you have there. There's absolutely no reason why we need to put a missile defense system in the Czech Republic, other than to rub it into the Russian's noses, and you think that's perfectly acceptable. Glad to see that you agree so much with the Bush admin on this issue.

about poor Russia the reality is they can't do anything about it. D o I think they should put missiles in the Czech Republic? No, I don't unless the Czech's were under some type of threat and needed US or NATO protection. And I haven't see that so far. I've yet to see a valid reason to do it but then the real reasons aren't like to front page news either.

p.s. Save the Cheney-Rumsfeld meme. because someone doesn't agree with you or has the opposite position on a matter hardly makes them a Repub.

Whoever says "fuck you" to Russia sooner or later gets a multiple "fuck you" in return.
Don't you belive this? Well, check out how Napoleon, Hitler and the swedish king ended up.

against an attack from the US and Israel, but if the Czech government want to build up it's defenses against an attack Russia gets pissed...well, fuck you Russia.

this is all about Czechoslovakia's protection?

Get real.

How well do you understand this issue?

The neo-cons may have succeeded in re-igniting the cold war. What idiots!

I never understood the knee jerk reaction against missile defense. If you don't think it will work thats a good reason but I didn't read any comments regarding that on this thread. Instead I read about how we are "provoking Russia" and "US imperialistic tendencies".
I like the idea of being able to save LA, NYC or Bug Tussle from a nuclear missile and I don't care from where the missiles come from. This is no more aggressive then locking your door at night and if my neighbors bitched at me for doing that I would get a second lock.

The truth about missile defense is that it isn't a shield. It is more of an offensive weapon. Particularly when placed in the Czech republic. While we don't see it that way, the Russians sure as hell do. They've been invaded twice during the past century. Both times they suffered major civilian losses. They are very sensitive to offensive provocations.

Missile shields are so leaky that even a rouge 3rd world nation could probably thwart them with fairly simple countermeasures. The point of a missile shield is offensive because when you launch against an enemy the first thing you do is take out as many nuclear missiles as you possibly can. That leaves only a limited number of missiles capable of a counter attack that usually would be aimed at a soft target (a city) because it is the only thing that can inflict possible pain on the attacker at that point. The shield protects against the limited counter attack. This isn't how Bush and the neocons see the Czech missile shield, they see it as a massive flow of tax money to their buddies in the aerospace industry and a way to court a prospective client state but the Russians have a much different picture.

What would we think if the Russians suddenly struck a deal to build a missile shield around civilian centers in Cuba? It is a worthwhile exercise to think that through to the finish.

The agreement is for a radar system. During the Cold war we had radar sites in Northern Canada to warn us of a Soviet attack. Poland is currently balking at stationing 10 interceptor missiles.
Both the US and USSR/Russia have had nuclear missile submarines off each other's coasts for decades capable of destroying each other. This is just a radar system. Even if the missiles were deployed in Poland they are not nuclear weapons.
I can understand the concern that this can help defend against a retaliatory strike but only partially. 10 missiles are unlikely to prevent dozens or hundreds of missiles from landing. Russia wouldn't need to use ICBMs to attack Europe but shorter range tactical missiles. Using the same logic a bulletproof vest would be considered offensive weapon if it is worn by a cop yet they do it everyday. Cops don't start shooting because of their bulletproof vests. They start shooting because they are scared.
As to whether or not it will work is another matter. It seems partially effective but there are claims that the tests are rigged. What is obvious however is that it would be overwhelmed by a large attack or even counter attack.

I don't know what the US reaction to a Russian missile shield in Cuba would be but I think we would be happy about it. The Cuban Missile crisis was regarding nuclear armed missiles not a system to shoot down nuclear armed missiles. A missile shield around Cuba wouldn't hurt the US but could be used politically to support our system.

Thanks, I haven't read the agreement. I didn't know that it was only a Radar system. Obviously, I realize that the cuban missile crises was about nuclear tipped ballistic missiles, I was alive then and lived on the East coast. My dad built a fallout shelter in our basement that week. I still believe it is a worthwhile exercise to consider how the United States would react to a similar agreement in Cuba or maybe Latin America. In the '80s when the Russians sold some Mig fighters to Nicaragua, Reagan and the Republicans had the Sandinista marching on Texas. It was pretty laughable.

I think the real issue here is probably the courting of the Czech republic as a US client state. Not to mention the deployment of an anti-missile system in Eastern Europe. It is somewhat interesting, I'll give it that. Clearly the anti-missile system has the Russians bugged. We'll see what becomes of it. It worth a careful study. I for one don't trust the rationality and foresight of the Bush administration to do this. They have proven repeatedly that they don't understand the big picture.

assuming it is ever installed. Eastern Europe has a dilemma. They are sill afraid of the Russians but they don't want to be a target either. Do you remember the big rush to join NATA a while back? The Russians had a cow over that too but they got over it. They want NATA / US protection but this radar site looks like a giant bullseye to me. If I was going to launch a nuclear attack the first thing I would take out would be the radar site. No radar, no missile defense. Maybe you use a low flying cruise missile or an atomic car bomb but you take it out.

My dad didn't build us a fallout shelter. We didn't have a basement and the water table (Long Island, NY) was about 3 feet.

Yes, it is an interesting dilemma for Eastern Europe.

It is fun to remember my dad's fallout shelter. We were in Atlanta, Georgia and had a nice basement. My dad was an architect and the shelter was pretty cool, especially if you were a five year old kid. I wish I had pictures of it for old time sakes!

I live outside Atlanta now (Stone Mountain) still without a basement. Atlanta might have been a target. I think the accuracy of those missiles sucked so they probably would have gone after cities as opposed to military bases. From memory I think NY was on the edge of what the US thought was the range of the missiles. I'm pretty sure that DC was in range and then it's just a question of picking big targets.
I remember having an "air-raid" drill in school as a kid (born in 1956) where we lined up in the hall, bent over and put your hands over your head. Kissing your ass goodbye was something I learned later. I think we only did it once so I'm pretty sure it was during the Cuban Missile Crises. The folks managed to shelter me from that despite watching the Huntley-Brinkley Report on NBC every night.

How come Kennedy went apeshit when Cuba housed Soviet nuclear missles?
Also a knee jerk reaction?

I understand the Russian position, there should be an assured mutual distraction out there, because some people like boyking just don't know when to stop.

There is a difference between a nuclear tipped missile aimed at a city and a non-nuclear missile aimed to hit a nuclear tipped missile aimed at a city.

The statement "there should be an assured mutual distraction out there" astounds me. Hopefully you regret saying it.

Starting another cold war may energize her flagging career prospects.

And it's good for business.


:sarcasm:

:banghead:

why the Poles in particular are not playing ball.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3381755

The plans remain unpopular in the Czech Republic, while the US has failed to reach agreement with Poland on placing other parts of the system there.
>
Czech opposition parties have strongly criticised the plans and are calling for a national referendum.

The plans will have to be approved by the Czech parliament, where the government would need the votes of the opposition parties to get them through.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7496399.stm

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Czech Republic's Karel Schwarzenberg toast the deal Tuesday.



The two officials sign the initial deal Tuesday afternoon at Cerninsky Palace in Prague, Czech Republic.



The proposed missile defense system draws protests Tuesday in Prague.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/07/08/missile.defense/index.html

does not sound like they are going to open up an eastern front or invade berlin.

Come on guys.

Russia has a long history of expansionist nationalism in Eastern and Central Europe. The Czechs, Poles and others have had to ally themselves with other powers to protect against Ruskie aggression.

If Russia didn't have thousands of ICBM's still aimed at Europe there would be no need for this shield.

Oh, you meant with regard to Russia rather than America?
Oops, my bad.

> ... to protect against Ruskie aggression

:rofl:

:patriot:

That makes three on this thread by my count ... any others?

In 1941, it was Germany that invaded Russia, not the other way around. Russia's conquest of Eastern Europe was the reaction to the invasion that killed millions of Russian civilians and from threats by the US and GB after the war. They needed a buffer to prevent fascists like Patton from rolling right into Moscow. Without the sacrifice of the Russians in places like Stalingrad and Kursk and Leningrad, the rest of Europe, including England, would be speaking German right now.

You sound like you need to bone up on history yourself, Guderian.

I hadn't seen this comment, (my first post on here) so I thought I would jump in with it. Sorry if it is a point that has already been made. I don't like the idea of missiles anywhere. I also don't like the idea that the US is making demands on other countries not to expand or build missiles and pushing Russia to accept that we are going to put them someone where whether they like it or not. At some point, the whole thing of the US puffing out its chest and telling the rest of the world what it has to accept or else is going to get real old to the rest of the world. This is particularly so when we do not currently have, nor have we enjoyed, their respect for so long. Hopefully, if Obama is elected we can show that the American people have finally grown up. If not, we need to shut our mouths up on the demand side because all it will lead to is our having to put our money and our troops in to back up our words. I don't see us as the great leaders of morals and right. I used to believe this. My own country and what it may be capable of, what it may have already done, scares me. Until we get some rightness going on with more regularity in our own nation and in our own behavior abroad, we need to stop making trips to other countries to push them to do as we demand. Russia's reaction to the missiles we want is no different than our reaction to Iran's missiles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland_(1939)

Better re-examine your "progressive" ideals

You can't because their are none. Had Stalin not purged his general staff back in the 30's, the Nazis wouldn't have gotten nearly as far as they did.
In this present controversy, I have to side with the Russians. When you have hostile forces arrayed on your borders, you have to take stronger actions to protect your territorial integrity. I see their possible reaction in fully supporting the Ossetians and Abkhazians in fighting against Georgia, where US troops are stationed.
Just because somebody can look at the Russian's side of things, you accuse them of being a Stalinist or an apologist.
It just goes to show that NeoCons like you exist here on DU as well.

"Russia's conquest of Eastern Europe was the reaction to the invasion that killed millions of Russian civilians and from threats by the US and GB after the war. They needed a buffer to prevent fascists like Patton from rolling right into Moscow."



Justifying the enslavement of Eastern Europe behind the Iron Curtain because of the ludicrious notion that the U.S. would invade Moscow is asinine at best.

Last time it was Nazi Germany which occupied the whole Europe and looked to cleanse "the Lebensraum" from the untermensh Slavs.

Russia has seen so many invasions throughout its history, ah well, where are those invaders?
Nothing new under the sun.

In order to "aim" the ICBM at any particular place you have to program the coordinates and launch codes. It takes about 5 minutes. So technically the ICBMs are not aimed at any particular place until given coordinates and launch codes.

Another "cold war media hype" victim?

....how putting a lock on your door in a crime area is in anyway provocative? In other words, how dare you lock out the thieves, you, you heathen. Protect your family, why sir you are threatening people with thisd agressive act. Right.


:sarcasm:

And happy that I missed Condosleeza's visit. I was on vacation from my job in Egypt, as a lot of you know.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Prague's very direct experience of Russia extending fraternal socialist greetings to the Czechs--spring 1968, when comrades from Poland, East Germany and Russia visited the city. In tanks.

The American radar (NOT missile) system does not seem to be very popular in the Czech Republic. But being ordered around by Russia is a hell of a lot less popular.

More than one citizen expressed it to me in words like this: "We spent seven years under the Nazis and 40 years under the Communists. We don't like being told what to do."

They recently told the Pope to take a hike, too. The Vatican would like to take over the gorgeous, ancient St. Vitus Cathedral in Prague Castle. The Czech Republic, one of the most atheistic nations in Europe, told the Vatican that the Cathedral is currently operated as a museum and they would like to keep it that way, thank you very much.

If you go to Prague, don't miss the Museum Of Communism. It's located above a McDonald's, beside a gambling casino, and across the street from a Bennetton. In case you wondered how that whole "historical inevitability" thing turned out.

The Communist propaganda posters altered by local artists are a real hoot:

You couldn't buy laundry soap. But you could get your brain washed.

It was a time of shiny, happy people. The shiniest of all worked in the uranium mines.

The Russians are not going to invade the Czech Republic.

It's a game of chicken. All we have is a dumb lame duck. This story should be #1 with a bullet.

They are offered for complementary downloading!

http://www.marxists.org/history/ussr/sounds/index.htm

Poshalsta! :-)

will not allow the Missile Shield

It's not different than Bush saying he'll take military action if Iran doesn't stop it's uranium enrichment. And everyone here pretty much agrees that that's wrong. Except when Russia does it? A lot of people here need to grab some fucking consistency.