Murder Suspect Was Protected By SF Sanctuary Policy

Source: NBC

SAN FRANCISCO -- The alleged gang member accused of shooting to death a San Francisco father and his two sons could enter a plea in court Monday morning.

Ramos is accused of killing Tony Bologna and his sons ages 20 and 16 during a road rage incident as they drove home from a family outing June 22.

The case has also sparked new debate over illegal immigration. The Chronicle reports Ramos, an undocumented immigrant, had been convicted of two other felonies as a juvenile but was never deported due to San Francisco's status as a sanctuary city.

Under the policy, city leaders were prohibited from reporting immigration status of those in the juvenile court system. Last month, Mayor Gavin Newsom closed that loophole.


Read more: http://www.nbc11.com/newsarchive/16941347/detail.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/20/MNK011MAFR.DTL

Ramos, a native of El Salvador whom prosecutors say is a member of a violent street gang, was found guilty of two felonies as a juvenile - a gang-related assault on a Muni passenger and the attempted robbery of a pregnant woman - according to authorities familiar with his background.

Federal authorities, however, also missed an opportunity to take Ramos into custody just this past March - after they had learned of his immigration status and started deportation proceedings, and after Ramos was arrested in San Francisco on a gun charge. For reasons the federal agents cannot explain, they did not put an immigration hold on Ramos.

Ramos, who had just turned 17, had allegedly flashed gang signs and banged on the bus' windows with two other gang members. The three then yelled, "Who are you with?" at a passenger, who responded that he did not belong to a gang, police said.

At that point, Ramos and the other two boarded the bus and beat and kicked the man, an attack that was recorded by the bus' video camera, authorities said.

----

Why was this person even out on the street? Does SF turn a blind eye to violent criminals?

These scum should be mercilessly eradicated. They are the most violent of the violent...beheadings and castrations are favorite terror ploys for these 'Banger assholes.

And neither SF nor any other US city has a hope in hell against these thugs. They get deported, they get sent back from El Salvador with different names, they get imprisoned and end up running the gangs from Inside, etc...

and those are some scary people.

They make the yardies look like pikers.

It's called solitary confinement. 4*8ft. cell, 3 meals through the door, 24*7. They get
one chance after a year to behave and then it's life in solitary after that. When stupidity
can't be cured, it needs to be isolated so it does not spread.

There are ENTIRE prisons in Honduras and El Salvador that contain ONLY MS-13 members. These are where the show is run from.

Ther are other ENTIRE prisons in Honduras and El Salvador for people who are ex-members of MS-13. I'm not kidding - they're THAT BIG. If any of these turncoats are ever seen by a member of MS-13, death is certain, painful and often prolonged.

These gangs started out as kiddie-soldiers affiliated with Salvadoran Death Squads in the 1980s. You have no idea how brutal and without morality thse scumbags can be...

There are MS-13 chapters in every Central American country, all 50 states and also in Canada.

Believe it or not, the only way that Hondurans have found to get rid of this blight on humanity is to bribe prison guards to burn the prisons down. This has happened twice - once over 60 MS-13 members were killed, and the second time 105 members were killed. The government turned a blind eye.

Ramos is arrested, in custody in March. The Feds, aware of who he is and his immigration status, fail to put a hold on him. So this becomes San Francisco's fault? I don't think so, Bunky.

Because he's allegedly the one who shot three innocent people.

Both the city of SF and the feds have some 'splainin to do.

But the headline makes it sound like it was San Francisco's dirty fucking hippie "sanctuary" policy that "protected" Ramos. It could just as easily have read "INS fuck up lets murder suspect go".

I'm glad it's finally getting some attention, because it's been a mess for years. You get more lenient treatment as an illegal immigrant in SF than you do as a US citizen, and it's stupid. As is the norm with SF politics, it's a good idea gone horribly, horribly wrong.

If, on the other hand, he's innocent...

Jaxon Van Derbeken, Chronicle Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 22, 2008

... He was arrested on March 30 when police stopped his car in the Tenderloin and a passenger in the car tried to dispose of a handgun. After three days in jail, Ramos was released. Police learned that the weapon tied to his passenger had been used in a double murder the day before. But at the time, prosecutors could not tie the weapon to Ramos, instead seeking charges against his passenger.

San Francisco Sheriff Mike Hennessey, who oversees the jails, said his agency sent a fax to federal immigration authorities about both Ramos and the passenger shortly after their arrests.

The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement office issued a immigration hold for the passenger but not for Ramos, Hennessey said, adding that his deputies then released Ramos when no local charges were filed.

"We gave them that document, we faxed it to the local office," Hennessey said. "They didn't respond to our fax for a hold, it was faxed four hours after of the arrest" ...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/22/BA5C11SK2S.DTL

But nooooooooo, Ramos isn't a GANG MEMBER.

:eyes:

They were sent to a non-secure rehab facility in another city and all walked out within 24 hours. At least one of them has been re-arrested back in SF.

Typical of San Francisco, the policy was made with the best of intentions but it was a terrible mistake.

as the granola state: Land of flakes, and nuts.

I mean how many killing and lawlessness will be enough for San Fran??

Some times I wonder.

And I thought Chicago and/or Milwaukee was strange??

Singling out California for this is ridiculous.

actually has

I will, however, be more impressed if you have some actual basis for your opinion, rather than mere rightwing sloganeering

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0925/p02s01-usju.htm

Cities and counties with sanctuary policies:

Anchorage, Alaska

Fairbanks, Alaska

Chandler, Ariz.

(snip)

Durham, N.C.
............................

Illegal Immigrants Charged in DWI Cases Test Judicial System
Marcus Lassiter

Posted: Apr. 18, 2008

Smithfield, N.C. — Seven-year-old Marcus Lassiter won't see his eighth birthday. George Smith was on his morning commute to Duke University but never made it to work. Betty Coates might struggle with daily tasks for the rest of her life.

Johnston County Sheriff Steve Bizzell sees a pattern among the cases of these victims of drunken driving: Each accused driver was in the United States illegally.

Bizzell pointed to Hipolito Hernandez, an illegal immigrant who faces second-degree murder charges in the hit-and-run that killed Marcus last Sunday...

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2760050/
...................................
Illegal Immigrant Charged In Deadly East Charlotte Hit-And-Run

POSTED: 5:45 am EDT April 23, 2007
UPDATED: 6:16 pm EDT April 23, 2007

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- An illegal immigrant faces multiple charges after police say he hit and killed a pedestrian in east Charlotte and then left the scene.

Luciano Melendres, 30, is charged with felony hit-and-run, driving while impaired, driving with a revoked license, driving without liability insurance and driving with fictitious tags.

Officers say Melendres, a native of Mexico, hit and killed 32-year-old Danny Sims while he was crossing Albemarle Road near Farm Pond Lane around 10:30 p.m. Sunday. They say Melendres fled the scene in a green Ford Expedition, but a witness called 911 as she followed the sport utility vehicle and directed officers to a home on Jason's Forest Drive, just two miles from the crash scene. Police arrested Melendres a short time later.

Melendres was just convicted last week on a DWI charge from a March 16, 2006, incident. He was sentenced to probation, alcohol assessment and treatment and community service and was ordered to pay court costs and have a breathalyzer device installed on his vehicle. Police said they didn't find the device during an initial look inside...

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/12884400/detail.html?rss=char&psp=news
..........................
Illegal Immigrant Accused Of Driving Drunk, Causing Fatal Boone Crash

POSTED: 5:30 pm EST November 26, 2007
UPDATED: 11:01 am EST November 27, 2007

BOONE, N.C. -- An illegal immigrant is accused of driving drunk in Boone over the Thanksgiving holiday and plowing into a sport utility vehicle, killing a man inside.

Boone police said Juan Manuel Juarez Reyes slammed into the rear of a Lexus SUV that was about to turn from Highway 105 onto Poplar Hill Drive shortly before 11 p.m. Friday. The SUV was skidded 250 feet, hitting a Watauga County deputy’s patrol car. The occupants of the SUV were trapped inside their vehicle but the deputy was not hurt.

The driver, Sallie Ellis Newell, and passenger Jacqueline Elizabeth Newell were taken to the Watauga County Medical Center where they were treated in released. But Brian Alan Newell and Andrew Russell Newell, who was in the back passenger-side seat, were flown to Johnson City Regional Medical Center.

Andrew Newell, 22, died at the hospital. His father remains in critical condition.
....................................
Wed, Aug. 03, 2005

Time to sober up
N.C. laws are meaningless if courts can't make them stick

Nothing can help Scott Gardner now. But how North Carolina's citizens
and its elected officials respond to his needless death can help
others who face the same danger.

Mr. Gardner, a teacher from Gaston County, died in a wreck July 16 on
his way to the beach with his family. A Mexican illegal immigrant with
at least five drunk driving charges has been charged with murder and
with impaired driving -- again.

How could it happen? A series of oversights in the state's justice
system put a man with a record of drinking behind the wheel too many
times. That's inexcusable. It's time North Carolina's politicians
sobered up and faced the facts: Tough drunk driving laws are
meaningless if courts don't have enough resources to make them stick...

http://www.laborlawtalk.com/showthread.php?t=65707

The numbers have been essentially flat for a decade, so any recent increase in the illegal immigrant population isn't having a statistically measurable effect

North Carolina Drunk Driving Statistics
http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics-north-carolina.html

places such as Boone and Charlotte. This suggests that you need learn to read maps

Perhaps it is also reasonable to suggest that you need to learn to read city ordinances: if you want to claim that some Durham ordinance is threatening North Carolinians, some argument and evidence is required, beyond noticing that some people drive while intoxicated with fatal results

This particular policy is stupid, but SF is by no means a violent city by US standards.

And it's a shame because people here will side with the city of San Fran just because Bildo is against what they are doing...

Common sense does occasionally need to come out and play. This whole situation is assinine, and never should have happened in the first place.

I find myself repeating "don't let your mind be so open that your brain falls out" a lot.

Jaxon Van Derbeken, Chronicle Staff Writer
Monday, July 21, 2008

... "It's important to get a fair trial, and we can't get a fair trial if false information is being put out there by the Chronicle and then copied and mimicked" by other media, Amparan said. "He's a young man, he was working, he has a young child. He's not a gang banger. The attempts to try to portray him as some kind of violent, horrific individual is just an attempt to deny him a fair trial."

Amparan said his client is not responsible for the June 22 slayings and is not a gang member. He said he did not enter the country illegally.

"He married a U.S. citizen and was in the process of getting his U.S. citizenship," Amparan said.

Amparan also disputed any suggestion that Ramos benefited by the city's 1989 sanctuary law or any other city policy against reporting felons to immigration authorities for possible deportation ...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/21/BA5C11SK2S.DTL

He was a convicted felon, illegally in possession of a loaded handgun, who went out looking for trouble and found it.

entirely plausible that they prejudice the jury pool, whether or not the defense lawyer's claims are true

Note that the attorney didn't dispute that Ramos shot three innocent people.

... His attorney says Ramos is not a gang member, not responsible for the murders, and that if he has a juvenile record, no one should be disclosing it ... http://www.kgoam810.com/Article.asp?id=801455&spid=15884

Pettifoggery.

...if he has a juvenile record, no one should be disclosing it...

:nopity:

:eyes:

:eyes:

the jury verdicts come back,' Amparan added ..."

Man Held In SF Family Road Rage Slayings Changes Attorney
POSTED: 11:54 am PDT July 10, 2008
http://www.nbc11.com/news/16845363/detail.html

:rofl:

Ramos Lawyer Disputes Claims; Asks For Gag Order
UPDATED: 6:42 pm PDT July 21, 2008
http://www.foxreno.com/news/16723094/detail.html

But even if he was "merely" an accomplice to someone else who was the actual shooter, the Felony Murder Rule would apply (i.e. it would make no difference at his sentencing, if convicted).

Seriously, I am not in favor of trying cases in the media. It may be the case that bad information risks polluting the jury pool. Or not.

He shouldn't have been there to begin with. He was there as a result of inaction by the local and federal authorities, and as a direct result of SF policy that gives illegal immigrants rights beyond that which legal immigrants or citizens enjoy. And I say this as a supporter (in theory if not in practice - at least in SF) of the sanctuary movement. However, loopholes such as this must be closed if justice is to be served. I despise the felony murder rule, and I think that its application in this case does far more harm than good. The correct thing to do is fix the loophole so that something like this does not happen again. The SF authorities' "we called the feds and they didn't do nuttin" defense is totally ridiculous. They failed in their responsibility to prevent this, and are blaming others as a result. It's stupid.

I can't get past "Tony Bologna".

:blush:

:sarcasm:

The problem is the double-standard created by the sanctuary laws, whereby an illegal immigrant is subject to less stringent controls than a legal immigrant or a citizen. Unsurprisingly, this creates many problems.

Let's deport the real criminals. Like this guy. He should have been sent back after his first violent offense.

That is not its intended purpose.

to deflect blame. 'They're saying this because they're feeling some heat,' says Hennessey. 'For example, in the past 18 months I've turned over 1100 people to ICE, so it's not like we have a system that doesn't work.' ..."

Sheriff Denies ICE Claims About Ramos
POSTED: 9:50 pm PDT July 21, 2008
UPDATED: 10:47 pm PDT July 21, 2008
http://www.ktvu.com/news/16949191/detail.html

If ICE is wrong he should be able to present evidence that directly supports his case. He doesn't. And regardless of ICE's actions it was the SF police who let him go when they had good cause to believe that he was both an illegal immigrant and a violent criminal.

Gavin Newsom making his ass looking good for the masses.

From the same source "Convicted undocumented adults in San Francisco have never been protected by the sanctuary policy."

"Federal agents told the Chronicle that they were told about Ramos when he was arrested as an adult but did not hold him for deportation proceedings. They can't explain why."

Fed's don't enforce. Maybe if he had some drugs....

Are you saying they gave themselves a wedgie?

It's become a term of derision in recent weeks precisely because of the unintended consequences of San Francisco defining itself that way.

Rovian my ass. Let's see them accept responsibility for the problems they've caused by trying to set their own immigration policy.

Here is a quote from Mayor Newsom's own press release of April 2, 2008

4/2/08 - Today, joined by community groups, faith leaders, and City department heads, Mayor Gavin Newsom and Supervisor Tom Ammiano launched a public awareness campaign to promote San Francisco’s "sanctuary" policy for undocumented residents, and assure all residents that accessing city services does not make an individual vulnerable to federal immigration authorities.

"The City's public awareness campaign is a reminder that City employees will not report individuals or their immigration status to federal immigration agents," said Mayor Newsom. "San Francisco residents should feel safe when they visit a public health clinic, enroll their children in school, report a crime to the Police Department or seek out other City services."

The awareness campaign will consist of advertisements of the city sanctuary city policy, complete with multi-language brochures and radio and TV public service announcements.

In 1989, San Francisco passed the "City of Refuge" Ordinance (Sanctuary Ordinance) which prohibits City employees from helping Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) with immigration investigations or arrests unless such help is required by federal or state law or a warrant. The Ordinance is rooted in the Sanctuary Movement of the 1980’s, when churches across the country provided refuge to Central Americans fleeing civil wars in their countries.

In February 2007, Mayor Newsom reaffirmed San Francisco’s commitment to immigrant communities by issuing an Executive Order that called on City departments to develop protocol and training on the Sanctuary Ordinance.

The Sanctuary Ordinance helps to maintain the stability of San Francisco communities. It keeps communities safe by making sure all residents feel comfortable calling the Police and Fire Departments during emergencies. It keeps families and workforce healthy by providing safe access to schools, clinics and other City services.

"As a Sanctuary City, San Francisco has and will continue to provide compassionate services to all immigrants, regardless of status," said Supervisor Ammiano. "When certain people are targeted and denied access to vital social services, the health and safety of the entire city is compromised."

Campaign funding totals $83,000 and is supported by the Department of Public Health and Human Services Agency. Materials will be available in the following languages: English, Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese, Russian.

http://www.sfgov.org/site/mayor_index.asp?id=78378

ordinance is still disgusting



Note that this says city and county monies are not to be spent enforcing federal laws, but it allows reporting for serious crimes.

Insofar as the San Francisco Administrative Code does not itself appear establish to establish any felonies, one must presume that such crimes are established by the State, that the commissions thereof prosecuted by the State, and the penalties therefor set by the State. So a San Francisco ordinance could scarcely have been responsible for hiding a felony conviction, despite the Chronicle's dishonest allegations

Shill Debra J. Saunders reliably barks back her master's voice -- which (I suppose) explains why her column regularly appears in the Washington Times or on sites like Townhall.com

Here's a prior example, showing that she has a history of not being careful with the facts

Do tell.

What a diligent little repeater of rightwing noise you are, Slack!

I think the truth bears repeating regardless of its source.

cranks out whatever conservative line is currently correct

Thanks for the heads-up. That does not change my opinion that city and federal officials failed in their duty to protect the public from a violent criminal, and that San Francisco's sanctuary policy is misguided.

I wasn't aware that Rove was so involved in setting up the sanctuary movement in the 80s. He sure does get around, that Rove. :crazy:

The feds screwed up, therefore it doesn't count that the city screwed up previously.

well here's a juicy issue for them to feign over.

lol

:)

How was the suspect "protected" differently than any other juvenile with a similar record?

Obviously, he wasn't. His immigration status has nothing whatsoever to do with the current crime he's alleged to have committed.

But NBC frames it as it was- inciting peoples' prejudices (which, btw could just as easily been focused on gang activity or ready availability of illegal handguns).

Other than recent failures of government to carry out policy, that's the issue.

Not in most of Oregon- where there isn't any de jure sanctuary policy in place.

At age 21 there is no way he could legally own even a semiautomatic AK type rifle in California.

...Shortly after that, police arrested Ramos, a native of El Salvador and reputed member of the Mara Salvatrucha gang, known as MS-13. Investigators believe he was the gunman, though two other men were seen in the car with him.

The heinousness of the deaths has put pressure on San Francisco District Attorney Kamala Harris to seek the death penalty against Ramos. Harris, who campaigned on an anti-death penalty platform and has never pursued capital punishment during her more than four years in office, has declined to say exactly how she intends to proceed.

"This case has been charged as a special circumstance case," making it eligible for the death penalty, spokeswoman Erica Derryck said. "No additional announcement has been made about this aspect of the charging."

Ramos' attorney, Robert Amparan, said his client was not the shooter. "They have the wrong person," he said....

Wow, even Kamala Harris thinks this guy deserves death.

More at http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/07/23/state/n165525D95.DTL&hw=ramos&sn=001&sc=1000

No doubt he will devote the rest of his life to finding the real killer if he is acquitted.