40-year-old suspect held in gruesome Manitoba bus killing

Source: CBC

A 40-year-old man is in custody in Manitoba after a young man was stabbed — and, witnesses said, decapitated — aboard a Greyhound bus travelling through the province overnight.

...

"While we were watching the door, he calmly walks up to the front with the head in his hand and the knife and just calmly stares at us and drops the head right in front of us," said Caton.



Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2008/07/31/greyhound-transcanada.html

---

The local CBC radio station has been interviewing people who were on the bus and people now afraid to board buses.

Unbelievable.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7535840.stm

"All of a sudden, we all heard this scream, this bloodcurdling scream," passenger Garnet Caton told CBC television.

"The attacker was standing up right over the top of the guy with a large hunting knife - a survival, Rambo knife - holding the guy and continually stabbing him... in the chest area," Mr Caton added.

The attack continued as passengers fled the bus and waited for police on a desolate stretch of the TransCanada Highway near Portage la Prairie, Manitoba.

<snip>

"When we came back on the bus... he was cutting the guy's head off and pretty much gutting him up," Mr Caton said.

What a bunch of heros.

Hero?

:eyes:

My (120 lb) wife and I broke up a bar fight between two enormous 200+ lb drunken assholes, one of them wielding a broken bottle.

Have I ever seen someone getting their head sawed off with a bowie knife? No, but there are thousands of stories of people with balls intervening in murder. As a matter of fact there are laws that pretty much require you to here in the states.

I can say with some confidence that I couldn't have just let that happen in front of me.

Now, why don't you leave those passengers alone? They didn't behead anyone, they didn't do anything wrong.

It sounds like the passengers did the only reasonable thing - clear the area and detain the pyscho...

In U.S. common law, there is no general duty to come to the rescue of another.<1> Generally, a person cannot be held liable for doing nothing while another person is in peril.<2><3> However, such a duty may arise in two situations:

A duty to rescue arises where a person creates a hazardous situation. If another person then falls into peril because of this hazardous situation, the creator of the hazard — who may not necessarily have been a negligent tortfeasor — has a duty to rescue the individual in peril.<4>
Such a duty also arises where a "special relationship" exists. For example:
Emergency workers (police, firefighters, EMTs, etc.) have a general duty to rescue the public within the scope of their employment, but not a duty to specific individuals.<5>
Parents have a duty to rescue their minor children. This duty also applies to those acting in loco parentis, such as schools or babysitters.<6>
Common carriers have a duty to rescue their patrons.<7>
Employers have an obligation to rescue employees, under an implied contract theory.<8>
Property owners have a duty to rescue invitees from all dangers on the property.
Spouses have a duty to rescue each other in all U.S. jurisdictions.<9>
Contrary to common law, eight states have laws requiring people to help strangers in peril: Florida, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Ohio, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin. These laws are also referred to as Good Samaritan laws, despite their difference from laws of the same name that protect individuals that try to help another person.<1> These laws are rarely applied, and are generally ignored by citizens and lawmakers.<1>
Where a duty to rescue arises, the rescuer must generally act with reasonable care, and can be held liable for injuries caused by a reckless rescue attempt. However, many states have limited or removed liability from rescuers in such circumstances, particularly where the rescuer is an emergency worker. Furthermore, the rescuer need not endanger himself in conducting the rescue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue

The bus driver is required to save his passengers, which he did. The truck driver went above and beyond and will likely get a medal or something.

I've worked as a volunteer police officer and even we weren't expected to put ourselves in danger, merely be an extra set of eyes.

apparently the attack was at the back of the bus, and the "witness" was busy getting people off the bus. The beheading occurred after the victim was dead. :(

working at car wash kidnapped a woman and put her in the trunk of her car and drove around with her inside of it for a week before getting caught. When the police detained him and his girl friend and tried to charge her, she claimed that she heard noise from the trunk but never investigated. The woman died as a result of drinking windshield washing fluid and the courts found that the girlfriend was under no obligation whatsoever to have reported the boyfriend for kidnapping. She remains free to this day. This happened in Michigan. Laws may vary in other states.

that's a good way to get yourself hurt or killed.

On edit - actually my wife cut her foot on the broken bottle shards pretty bad. As soon as she did the fight was over and the asshole in question dropped the bottle shard.

I'm not American, nor have I done any research into the laws you speak of, but I can guarantee that those laws pertain only to incidents in which you would not be putting yourself in harms way. If an individual burst into a bank with a semi-automatic and demanded everyone to get down, I'm sure you would drop like anyone else. It would be innane to expect you or anyone to challenge the person with a gun or some crazed person with a knife. Any laws that expect individuals to put themselves in harms way to help another would run counter to the principles of freedom of life and liberty.

By the way, no one intervened in the actual stabbing incident. Everyone got the hell off the bus, including Caton. The bus driver disabled the bus so the maniac couldn't get away, and some people held the door closed so he couldn't escape. No one tried to stop this man physically from stabbing or beheading the victim.

Yeah, whatever you say! :hi:

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:crazy:

People intervene in robberies where the assailant has a gun all the time. I've risked my life for other people a few times (twice it was my wife though not a stranger). Again I'm not saying that I would have gotten over the initial shock. It's just surprising that no one did out of fourty people.

this maniac would have been no match to a crowd of 40 people, but not one person did a fucking thing to save this poor guy!

Un-fucking-believable! :wow:

onlookers can get frozen in "Am I REALLY seeing this happening?" shock...

my mouth was agape simply reading about it today...in all honesty, i probably would have had the same reaction had i been there seeing that bloody mess...

He was only 6 ft. tall, 200 lbs. and wielding a huge hunting knife - anyone could have taken him. :sarcasm:

which is taking the homeless, drug addicts, the insane and otherwise undesirable and giving them a one way bus ticket far away.

Don't waste money on a trial. The guy doesn't deserve to breathe and take up any more airspace.

If I saw him doing this and I had a gun I would have shot the bastard. :mad:

And if this incident happened in my City the Cops would have emptied their magazines into him after he dropped the victim's head.

And the killer would be dead. End of story.

But the RCMP are too nice.

since I've lived there, but even so they should have emptied rounds onto the killer when he showed up at the bus door after he dropped the victim's head.

People are talking about this and just wanting them to kill the dude, and I have mixed feelings about it for a few reasons:

We don't know what's wrong with this guy, but he's clearly sick. It's such a heinous action that I don't think anyone would really care if he was to die, but at the same time, what kind of punishment is that? I always thought the death penalty was letting them get off easy. Its quick and peaceful most places these days and then its all over. Let him stew for a lifetime in a cell, if you want to punish him.

Its our instinct to want retribution on this guy, but how much taxpayer money does it cost to teach this guy some kind of a lesson that his mind may be incapable of grasping anyways?

I wouldn't miss him anyways. What a sickening story.

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crossfire of a handful of CCW's popping off some quick rounds at the same time.

and I totally agree.

People that commit heinous acts like this do not deserve to be here.

Because I'm betting this guy isn't a sociopath, but rather, in the vernacular, insane.

Even if he isn't, everyone ina civilized nation deserves a trial. And, if he ISN'T insane, I very much doubt he will ever see the light of day. Too bad that Canada is such a wimpy nation and doesn't have the DP.

You forget HE killed an innocent young human being.
You care nothing about the person that he killed except to feel for this out-of-control sociopath as if you have Stockholm Syndrome or something! :think:

Yeah fuck the victim eh? :sarcasm:

:eyes:

A link to a diagnosis he's a sociopath? Oh? Not yet.

Advocating killing the mentally ill is so.... un-DU. You're on a roll tonight, even more than usual. What a surprise.

I suggest you go and edit the libel out of your post ASAP. You're not allowed to lie about other posters.

I doubt there's any way to rehabilitate someone with that many screws loose, nor would punishment be likely to mean anything to him if he's that fucked in the head. There'd be no way to ever guarantee he wouldn't do it again, and considering that this was unprovoked and he didn't know the victim, no way to ever guard against the possibility should it arise.

Who's to say he wouldn't freak out on his fellow inmates like this, and mutilate someone serving a lesser sentence, someone who would be eventually going back to society? I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for this nut - or the resulting wrongful death suit. Drugs aren't an excuse - anything he could have taken to make him do that has likely caused brain damage of some sort.

As a taxpayer, I wouldn't want my money being used to warehouse someone with no hope of rehabilitation, whom forty witnesses saw committing a crime like that. This is truly like having a rabid pit bull.

FYI: "warehousing" someone is cheaper than zapping them.

...that bother me about this argument.

For one, the man hasn't been given a trial yet, nor have all the facts been released. Of course he is guilty, but we do not know if he was mentally ill, dropped too much acid on the bus, or just a psychopath (or some other motivation).

Secondly, enlightened states do not sanction murder. The US and Japan are the only advanced nation in the world that still employ the death penalty (even Russia, which still has the death penalty on it books, had issued a moratorium on executions in 1996--see the amnesty international website). The state is supposed to be a reasonable entity that acts as such (rather than acting on emotion); people are rational beings, and as such are prone to act according to their emotions. The state was established to protect the lives and rights of individuals, not completely eradicate them. The "eye for an eye" measures were a practice of a bygone, unenlightened epoch. Rehabilitation should always be the aim of a criminal system, even for those individuals who seem irredeemable.

I'm sure my argument would not sway a proponent of the death penalty; I just simply do not believe in state-sanctioned murder, which is what the death penalty ultimately is.


...by the way, as far as we know this is the only victim of this (40 year-old) killer. To state that he would kill again (or mutilate an inmate) is a baseless accusation--you are betting on a future that you could not possibly know.

Sure. I think that means you've volunteered to be his neighbor if he's released, or his guard or cellmate if he's imprisoned for life. If you're that confident...

I don't give a rat's ass if he's mentally ill or not. There's a difference between being mentally ill and a murderer. Most mentally ill people don't run around taunting police with the severed head of the person they just gutted on a crowded bus.

"but we do not know if he was mentally ill, dropped too much acid on the bus, or just a psychopath (or some other motivation)."
It doesn't matter. If he hadn't killed someone like this (if his crime was different), it might, but it doesn't now. Even if you were to prescribe life in prison, it wouldn't matter - the end result is the same.

"I'm sure my argument would not sway a proponent of the death penalty;"
No, it doesn't, because it really doesn't seem you read what I wrote the first time.





(FWIW to you, the only three crimes I consider appropriate for the death penalty are serial rape, serial murder, and murders where there is no evidence of humanity, no hope of rehabilitation. Mindlessly gutting your victim on a crowded bus and taunting the others with his severed head falls squarely into the last one. There are also police reports that he consumed the flesh of his victim)

You're attacking inconsequential points rather than the crux of the argument. In fact, your first argument misses the point of the argument all together: the fact that people tend to think with both emotions and reasons, whereas the state should ideally be a reasonable entity.

I would hate to live next to a pedophile or some psychotic mass-murderer. If this guy had killed a family member, I would want him dead; this is because I am a human being. That being said, the public/political institutions are set up to protect the interests of all human beings. I cannot see any reasonable human being wanting to live in a state which kills its citizens. If you counter that some crimes are morally reprehensible, one could easily ask whether your counter argument is truly grounded in reason or is it an emotional response.

By the way, information coming out about the suspect is that he was "a nice guy." I have read nothing about the suspect eating the flesh of the victim; it sounds like fear mongering to me.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/08/01/stabbing-victim.html


Once again, as I originally stated, I think you're jumping the gun before the facts have/had been even released. You say this suspect is the type of person in which "...there is no evidence of humanity, no hope of rehabilitation." Do you base this on the accusation that he was taunting the police with the head? So, if he were high would that change your mind? What if he were an upstanding citizen up until this point and then he just snapped--would there be no hope for rehabilitation then? How exactly do you set a criteria for "...no evidence of humanity, no hope of rehabilitation?"

Don't be hating on pit bulls.

Or maybe he watched to much Red Green Show.

:rofl:

What about his poor parents, being told about his horrendous death? Obviously, they're working-class, otherwise their son would have been traveling a different way. So they've probably worked very hard all their lives, doing their best to get by. Now this happens to them.

If I were his mother, I don't know if I'd ever get over it.:cry:

Weird.

:wtf:

It is just that the police are not officially releasing any of the details even though lots of the details are already well known. The reporters are not phrasing things well.

I've got a cousin who uses Greyhound whenever he wants to attend a concert that's more than a day's drive away. Now I'm going to be worried about him.

But you're in Alberta, right? Your local CBC interviewed some passengers?

I drove past the Greyhound terminal on the way home.

The CBC afternoon drive-home show had interviews.

Have you ever been on a Greyhound bus? It's almost impossible to move around when it's holding still, nevermind bouncing around a highway. It's certainly no place where I'd want to be in a knife fight.

The bus driver did exactly the right thing, got all the other passengers off. Then he and another guy barricaded the bus, containing the problem.

Arming the bus driver isn't going to help. He needs both hands on the wheel to keep control of the bus. Anybody could reach past him and disarm him - now he's got the gun. Discharging a firearm in the crowded bus is going to endanger passengers. A stray round could also set off the gas tanks.

Next we will give the killer the right to an automatic weapon.

nevermind an automatic weapon.

Doris would give him the right to have an automatic weapon to protect him/herself!
Just read his recent comment on kitchen knives!

That don't know!

Doris Day!

I haven't heard anybody talking about changing the guns laws lately.

Day was talking about increasing security on buses, which is probably a good idea.

If you have, post the link.

To you but Doris is still Doris. We all age!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3417118

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3417118

Perhaps you are not aware of Doris' opinion on guns?

Sanity, finally. :)

Oh I bet some of our keyboard warriors would gladly go up against some huge asshole wielding that!

:sarcasm:

eom

Just saying'.

I realize a lot of people like to imagine what they'd do in a particular situation (heck, I do the same thing), but no one will ever know will absolute certainty what they would, or would not do when confronted by extraordinary scenarios.

And, as no one situation is ever the same as any other situation, saying "I've done such and such in the past" is hardly indicative of what one will do in the present or the future.

I've read many oral histories of WWII, and one thing that struck me was the disparity between what a soldier may have done in June (acting the hero) as opposed to what he may do in July (cowering behind a barn).


As an aside, another thing that struck me in reading the oral histories was the number of accounts related as to the soldier that talked the loudest, bragged the most and told his fellow soldiers just exactly how heroic he would be once in combat was invariably the fist soldier to hide behind a tree or a barn when things actually got a bit messy.

No, you aren't saying that and neither am I, but "someone" thinks we are.

Right on the nose with "keyboard warrior"!

being in a confined space with a knife that big made all the difference.


I wonder if they will release any rants he may spew in the near future.

Notice the bruising on his face. I hope that's from the cops slapping his ass around... what a fucked up asshole.

I hope he's locked up for the rest of time. Super max prison.... lock the door - throw away the key.

:nuke:

and stab this innocent guy and cut his head off! :wtf: :think:

And yeah I've been on too many Greyhound Busses to count!

The killer was seated right next to the victim.

Guess what? None of us more than a few rows away from him had a clue what was happening until the state troopers arrived.

I've been on too many Greyhound buses to count too, and I not only can picture this incident unfolding exactly the way it did, I can't picture anyone trying to stop the attacker unless he/she was right behind him in the opposing row. Those forward would need to get into the aisle and around a stabbing lunatic.

You read the account and you would then have some information!

40-year-old suspect held in gruesome Manitoba bus killing
Passenger decapitated, witnesses say; story contains graphic details
Last Updated: Thursday, July 31, 2008 | 5:23 PM CT Comments1439Recommend2499CBC News
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2008/07/31/greyhound-transcanada.html

Apparently, I said "fuck thd victim" and have Stockholm Syndrome. Even when I didn't and don't. Although I like IKEA, which is at least from Stockholm.

WRF?

You just told us how!

A legitimate thought from another website.

Nothing is impossible these days. See this article titled ... ‘Chipping’ of Humans No Longer the Stuff of Novels / Use of RFIDs Becoming Commonplace in America
http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=12511

or maybe it's actually a pity that won't happen

I wonder about a biker thing, or a gang thing. But it could just be a total lunatic. Still, decapitating someone takes some skill, or so they say. The murderer must have been used to butchering animals, either as a hunter or as a job.

It's very strange. I think there will be a few further strange aspects to the story.

when I read or heard that the killer was seated elsewhere and after a while, moved his stuff and seated himself next to his victim. Almost like he chose him ahead of time. But then, if the guy was sleeping with ear phones, he'd have been a easy target for a deranged nut.

But there still may be some twists to the story. The police say the killer was from Edmonton now, but he got on the bus in Manitoba. The victim was from Manitoba, but got on the bus in Edmonton. Maybe it means nothing - just a couple of Mcguffins, as Hitchcock put it. Sort of fearful symmetry, though.

The public information so far indicates that the young victim was a harmless fellow, probably not involved in gangs or anything. A terrible thing for the father and mother.

From global news TV

• Passengers tried to intervene but couldn't and had to evacuate
  
• Killer seemed "normal", chatted
  
• Attack happened around 10 p.m.
  
• Victim was asleep with headphones on
  

They did try to go back to help the victim, and they blocked the killer from exiting the bus.



Seems to me that the best thing to do would be to help as many people get off the bus as possible. There is no way that enough people, even large strong people, could have prevented that boy's killing. I'm sure he was dead before people even realized what was happening. And even so, the aisle of a bus wouldn't give anyone the leverage necessary to subdue a crazy man with a knife. If they didn't first get everyone off, the man would likely have flailed wildly in self-defense, injuring and killing others in the process.

I suppose some hero here would have run over the seat backs past all the passengers to subdue him by gripping his knife in their own hands.

I for one am impressed by how well everyone on that bus handled this nightmare.

I agree with you. I keep seeing individuals on various message boards discussing this horrific incident who fail to keep that very important tidbit in mind when they discuss what the other passangers "should have done". If it wasn't for the other passengers, the bus driver and the passing trucker who stopped to help, there easily could have been multiple victims instead of just one.

I should add, I feel terrible for the young victim (what an awful way to die) and I feel even worse for his family and friends. I just really don't think there was anything anyone could do to save his life.

:puke:

"He cut (the victim's) head off and then walked up to the door holding it and just looked at them crazy-like and then dropped the head and walked back to the body and started cutting it some more," Olmstead told CTV News from outside a hotel in Brandon, Man., where he and other passengers were taken.

The man was left alone with the body and witnesses say that he performed further indignities to the victim.

"We have word from people on the scene . . . that when the killer was alone with the body . . . that there may have been some small acts of cannibalism on the body," Oliver said.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080731/Manitoba_bus_080731/20080731?hub=TopStoriesl

After this gruesome attack with a humongous butcher knife, I can see, at least here in states, congress banning all weapons, (guns, knives, etc.) from commercial bus lines. Are you ready for the TSA to take over the security of commercial bus lines. In fact I am surprised that you aren't screened like your are before boarding an airplane already. I see this coming soon. You will have to go through the same security screening you have to go through before getting on an airplane before you can board a bus.

I predict this will happen.