Polish, Ukrainian, Baltic leaders to visit Georgia

Source: Reuters

VILNIUS, Aug 11 (Reuters) - Leaders of Poland, Ukraine and the three Baltic states plan to leave for the Georgian capital Tbilisi on Tuesday to express their solidarity with President Mikheil Saakashvili, Lithuania said on Monday.

The office of Lithuanian President Valdas Adamkus said in a statement that he, Polish President Lech Kaczynski, Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko, as well as the prime minister of Latvia and Estonia were to go to Tbilisi tomorrow

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LB214255.htm

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They, the "former captive nations", know what is at stake. Do you?

http://georgiandaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&t...

Joint statement on Georgia-Russia War by Presidents of Poland, Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania
August 9, 2008

We, the leaders of the former captive nations from Eastern Europe and current members of the European Union and NATO– Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland – are extremely concerned about the actions of the Russian Federation against Georgia.

We strongly condemn the actions by the Russian military forces against the sovereign and independent country of Georgia............


Spare me any knee-jerk ignorance.

Sounded like Glenn Beck or something.

...that you don't realize what is at stake.

The Ukranians do. They are next on the hit list.

And all that Russia has to do is demand military access to Ukranian ports. When Ukraine says no, that is cause enough. They already tried to poison the elected leader, Yushchenko.

There were people who cheered the Anschluss, who turned a blind eye to the gobbling of Sudetenland, and who claimed to have secured "peace in our time". Seems like there are plenty of that type around today.

You forget who struck first when making those comparisons to the NAZIs.

Like I said, White House propaganda.

Words cannot express the hatred every Lithuanian expressed when I asked them what they thought about the Russians.

One of them asked me why we weren't helping the Chechens. I said that we would not be able to deploy into that part of Russia, but I said that we would help the Balts if Russia tried to take them back.

The Lithuanian was very skeptical.

I now understand why.

If there's a fund that I could legally contribute to dedicated to helping the former Soviet Republics and former Warsaw Pact countries stay independent, I would contribute. I'd hate to see these fine people stuck with Putin and Moscow again.

I have no doubt but what they will support Georgia as much as they can.

His minions managed to get that stupid fucking Pres. of Georgia to pis off Russia... I'm sure there is more where that came from.

very touchy situation.

So contrary to your belief, I have plenty of fear.

Criticism of Russia and respect for Lithuania do not equal love for Cheney, at least as far as I'm concerned.

devoted to the "captive nations".

All such talk vanished in the '60s, and by the '70s it was embarrassing to say such things. Realpolitik was more important; being nice to Khrushchev and Brezhnev was important. Don't rock the boat. I even got into arguments with students at college about it--"it's just a different system, it suits their culture," yada-yada. Then I got into arguments with Russians--"they're free under the Constitution to leave whenever they want to, what's stopping them?"

Lots of Americans and most Russians were offended by Walesa, and stunned when, in '91, the "greatest tragedy of the 20th century" (a la Putain) happened and they all bolted. Many regions inside Russia also tried to bolt, but that didn't work out very well.

...that you can read here

http://georgiandaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&t...

Joint statement on Georgia-Russia War by Presidents of Poland, Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania
August 9, 2008

We, the leaders of the former captive nations from Eastern Europe and current members of the European Union and NATO– Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland – are extremely concerned about the actions of the Russian Federation against Georgia.

We strongly condemn the actions by the Russian military forces against the sovereign and independent country of Georgia............

The Russians would like to get rid of that "former" business. The near-abroad is theirs, they think, and Putin is willing to use any means, including force, to get it back.

Or has the U.S. talked them into it. Poland is now a member of NATO, so if their president is hurt during an attack on Tblisi, that could be grounds for a much wider war. More echos of WWI.

...concentrates the attention.

And your reading of history is flawed. The dynamic that led to WW1 was driven by the lessons of the Franco-Prussian war and the lightning victory of the Prussians. Those who mobilize first and send the troop trains to the front before the others will gain a huge advantage and overwhelm the enemy. That led to the WW1 hair-trigger, but it is not a consideration here.

WW2 is the more apt analogy. Putin won't stop with Georgia. Ukraine is next - then Central Asia and the Baltic States. NATO, SHMATO. Who cares. If we do nothing about Georgia what penalty will be paid in the future? Cheers to those five brave nations that are showing real solidarity with Georgia. And shame on those who disparage them.

But the consensus of historians seems to be about the dangers of multiple alliances causing major powers to be drawn into war because of the interests of minor powers.

Shaming people who disagree with you just reveals a weakness in an argument. It's a tactic of people who want to short circuit debate rather than engage in it by replacing reason with emotion.

French president Nicolas Sarkozy is to travel to Georgia for meetings with the embattled country's leader in a bid to help end hostilities with Russia.

Mr Sarkozy is to visit the Georgian capital Tbilisi following his previously announced trip to Moscow for talks with Russian president Dmitri Medvedev

snip

Meanwhile on Monday, France announced the air shipment of a first load of humanitarian aid to Georgia and said the plane would bring home French nationals and other Europeans trapped in the Georgian capital because of the conflict.

snip

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/56456/Sarkozy-to-visit-Georgia

Perhaps some eyewitness accounts, removed from the area, will be able to speak freely soon.

And if world opinion turns on Russia.....Maybe Medvedev will send Putin off to a summer resort if the world leaders actually start to grow a set...

LMAO,
yeah,
like that would happen.


Finnish and French foreign ministers hold talks with Georgian President

snip


In Moscow, Stubb and Kouchner are meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. On Tuesday they are expected to meet Russian President Dmitri Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.

snip

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Finnish+and+French+foreign+ministers+hold+talks+with+Georgian+President/1135238523104

they probably just want to know where to send the gas bill payments with the reduced middleman cost.

-but maybe

Things are getting serious.

It still is beyond me how of all countries Poland could sink so low to do this?
If there is one country on earth that has suffered the consequences of wars of aggression it's Poland.
But it seems that money changes everything. The Polish foreign minister was very clear why he took part in this crime against humanity:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3043330.stm

I need to fill up my gas tank

The Baltic states are independent and there is no huge oil deposit under the Baltic Sea that I know of.

Pomerania back.

:toast: