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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 06:59 AM
Original message
GAO: Most U.S. Corps. Don't Pay Income Tax
Source: AP

GAO: Trillions In Sales Untaxed For Years

POSTED: 5:19 am EDT August 12, 2008
UPDATED: 7:34 am EDT August 12, 2008

WASHINGTON -- The Government Accountability Office is set to release a report that says most U.S. corporations pay no federal income taxes.

And most foreign companies that do business in the United States aren't paying corporate taxes.

The study says about two-thirds of American corporations paid zero income taxes to Uncle Sam between 1998 and 2005.

An even higher percentage of foreign corporations avoided federal corporate taxes. At the same time, said the GAO, the firms had trillions of dollars in sales.

The study was requested by Democratic Sens. Carl Levin of Michigan and Byron Dorgan of North Dakota.

"It's shameful that so many corporations make big profits and pay nothing to support our country," Dorgan said.

The report doesn't name names, and the congressional agency didn't investigate why corporations aren't paying corporate or income taxes. But the GAO said it could be because of operating losses and tax credits.

Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/money/17165868/detail.html



Nice....
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. "Smirk." - Republicon Cabal O' Cronies
Edited on Tue Aug-12-08 07:03 AM by SpiralHawk
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Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. We should demand from congress that the names be released!
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Golden Raisin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
89. Congress are big corporations' hired guns.
Bought and paid for right on K Street.
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mediaman007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. But they advertise in the media, the sponsor stadiums and
they donate to their favorite charities! (sarcasm)

If they don't pay any taxes, how can they have any say in the laws of our country? I hope that their corporate officers pay taxes.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. You're such a comedian!
How do they have a say? The old fashioned way, Bribery!

Corporate officers pay taxes? Sure, after a whole raft of deductions, dodges, and the occasional offshore account.

But their low-level employees pay taxes! In full!

And we just CAN'T tax corporations on their profits! They'd just pass the cost on to the consumer, and the price of everything would go up! So in the end the poor tax-paying employee ends up paying both taxes! Even when he stops being our employee because we shipped the job to China!

/sarcasm
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Taxing Corporations will Cost Jobs!
So just you STFU and bend over.

God Bless America!
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
53. Heh.
I wonder what would happen if we instituted a .001% across-the-board tax on profits for every job shipped overseas.

The bastards really ought to face a punitive fee for every gainfully employed taxpayer they remove from the rolls.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
54. Lol!
Although I'm seriously disgusted that it's true.

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
68. I heard a line yesterday that describes the situation:
We have been bent over for so long we now think we are standing up!!
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
69. So we are individuals and Corporations are just one of us
Why should we pay taxes? Are we discriminated against?
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
75. mostly they donate to the Republican party see www.opensecrets.org
Edited on Tue Aug-12-08 02:16 PM by JohnWxy
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FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
4. Corporations dominate and control both parties. An example is BO's considering a corporate tax cut.
Edited on Tue Aug-12-08 07:32 AM by FreeStateDemocrat
Just another sellout.
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
38. And we, official chumps, keep electing the same politicians over and over
Pattern voting, apathy and laziness -- corporations love us.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #38
64. You are correct. I read recently that there is less than a 10% turnover
rate in members of congress. I imagine part of that is due to some states having term limits. But even with that, an outgoing senator can run for the house, and vice versa, in some states with limits. Yes, we are chumps.
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bulloney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #64
107. I don't think any state has term limits on U.S. Reps and Senators.
Ohio had tried to implement it in the 1990s, but it was struck down in the courts in part because Ohio would have been the only state to have term limits on federal legislators and it would have been a disadvantage to the state, if I remember correctly.

Ohio does have term limits on state legislators. I'm sure other states do, too.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #107
109. You are right. The limits are only on state legislators, and only
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 06:21 AM by usnret88
in some of the states.

That explains why there is such a small turn-over rate in the US legislature. I don't understand why we complain about our dissatisfaction with congress, and then send back 90% of them time after time.

Thanks for the correction.

edited to add a thank you
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
6. K&R n/t
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. corporations pay taxes on net profit, individuals pay taxes on income AND expenses
i can presonally run a loss for the year, and still pay income taxes on the money coming in AND sales tax, property tax, etc. on the money going out.

corporations, meanwhile, can expense practically everything the care to spend money on.
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
8. according to mcsame, we need to LOWER corporate taxes... what, to minus zero?
Edited on Tue Aug-12-08 08:16 AM by BREMPRO
McCain has become such a corporate shill and liar, showing his true character as a sellout with no integrity, instead of the "maverick" image he cultivates. Are the American people buying his crap? Hopefully this report will crash the repuke myth of high corporate taxes.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
9. Robber barons and their tax loopholes.
:mad:
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
44. And their mercenary armies that protect their interests as they exploit
the world.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
113. Granted to them by the Congress of the United States.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
10. A bit of context: Most corporations are shells, paper entities without income
Edited on Tue Aug-12-08 08:25 AM by HamdenRice
I heard this headline this morning, and I think it's somewhat misleading. I should preface my comments by saying I agree that overall, corporate profits are undertaxed.

It's just that using the "set" of "corporations" is wrong and misleading. Most corporations -- probably 95% -- are just shell companies set up for various legal reasons. For example, many corporations are wholly owned subsidiaries of other corporations, and their profits are attributable to parent corporations. Many corporations are set up for one-off transactions. Many are created and never used. When I worked in the financial sector, my impression was that about 95% of the corporations we created had no actual business function. You set them up with a phone call to a Delaware company that does nothing but create corporations, send in cookie cutter, standard issue articles of incorporation and bylaws, and pay about $100, and you have a corporation.

The proper "set" should be what is called in the business world "operating companies" -- corporations that actually engage in transactions with outside entities, which is to say that actually do stuff and report profits.

Also, corporations only have to pay taxes if they have income, which is to say profits. Many businesses that are created fail, and have no tax liability.

I'm not sure what "set" the GAO report was using. Perhaps they meant a majority of corporations that file income tax returns and reported income, or a majority of operating corporations. If so, then the results are disturbing. But if the set us just corporations, no one should be surprised.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. That is very true but let's not forget the changes of the last 30 years either
that being that the "double taxation" lie was used to divert attention from auditing corporations and towards auditing individuals. The theory was that the individual would be the only one paying taxes when in practice instead of having one entity to possibly audit you have 10 or 100 thousand (the individuals) potential audits. This not only greatly diminishes the chance of the Senior VP of blahblahblah from getting audited (people taking a earned income tax credit are something like 12 times more likely to get audited than someone making over $100K) but the corporations have almost NO chance of getting audited...so they create covers as you describe.

bottom line is that Joe six-pack gets screwed.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
28. Excellent explanation.
I was not surprised by this. A little misleading.
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
32. These days when big companies like Toyota come looking cities give away the store for
them to set up in their town. Tax breaks on everything . Corporations also once set up threaten to leave town thus weakening the tax base and employment numbers for the place.
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
42. There's another way to say the same as the OP
Corporate income taxes as a percent of federal revenue peaked in the early 1950's, a time when the wealth produced by this nation was more equally distributed. It reached a high of 31% of revenues in 1952. Corporate share averaged 28% in the 1950's, declined to 21% in the sixties, and has averaged 10% since the eighties (source).

"According to data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, total federal and state corporate income tax revenues in the United States in 2000, measured as a share of the economy, were about one-quarter less than the average for other OECD member countries. Thirty-five years ago, the opposite was true — corporations in the United States bore a heavier burden than their European counterparts" (see source, above). The Reagan Reactionary Revolution (the RRR) has been a blazing success for monied elites. This counter-reveloution has continued successfully during the reigns of GHWB, Clinton (the best "Republican" President we ever had), and GWB.

Over this same period of time (the RRR), after-tax incomes for the top 1% of our nation have grown by 176% (source2) while for the middle 20% -- as "middle" of "middle-class" as you can get -- income has grown by only 21%. Share of income for the top 1% has now exceeded the extremes of the Roaring Twenties, and we all know where that lead.

The RRR represents class war, and it has been raging since Inauguration Day in 1981. The rich have been very successful. The top 10% of our nation now own 71% of our wealth and 78% of corporate stock (see source2). Look how the racket works: Fail to collect fair taxes on corporate profit. Distribute that lightly-to-zero-taxed revenue as dividends. Dividends overwhelmingly flow to the top of the income spectrum. Lightly tax dividends (at 15% at the moment). The result? Watch the share of wealth balloon for the wealthy! ("The power of compound interest", Buffett would say.)

A further benefit of the racket: That top 10% own the vast majority of bonds as well. Fail to collect fair taxes from them and leave them with more discretionary income to spend as they will. Well, there is only so much Bordeaux and caviar to be consumed in a year, so this class gets to snap up those treasury bonds with their excess uncollected tax dollars. Federal debt balloons as a result of the tax giveaway, the wealthy fund the debt with the money not otherwise collected from them, and the rest get to watch a growing portion of what we still pay in taxes flow into their pockets in the form of interest payments. What a racket!!

When will we have our Bastille Day?!
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #42
73. Yes, that's the best way of measuring this -- corporate tax as a share of federal revenue
And as you correctly point out, this has declined dramatically. This is a better way of measuring this phenomenon than measuring what percentage of corporations pay taxes.
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bulloney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #42
108. And has that downward trend in corp tax percentage rate benefited local communities?
Has it slowed the outsourcing of jobs? Have the local schools and infrastructures remained strong, or, are many local governments facing deteriorating streets, roads, bridges, water & sewer and other utilities?
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #108
111. The only ones who have benefitted is the Country Club set (nt)
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
43. You are correct. nt
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
58. Disgustingly true.
Shell and paper entities are set up so they can legally rob anyone.

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apnu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
11. Simple solution -- revoke their corporate charter. (nt)
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. They spend $100 and write a new one under a new name. Not so simple. (nt)
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Okay. Revoke their PERSONHOOD.
Make it impossible for a corporation to own a corporation (if corporations are artificial persons for legal purposes, isn't that slavery in the first place? A person owning a person?). Revoke their "rights", and deem them privileges, revocable at the will of the public. This means no corporate rights of free speech or assembly, no corporate right to bear arms, no corporate right to be secure in the corporate papers and effects, etc.

Corporations should not have rights. They are not persons. They are legal fictions, and it is time and past time we dealt them the hand they deserve: a two, a five, and a ten, with a flop of three aces while WE hold the fourth.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. That's my view as well
They have all the benefits of functionally immortal personhood and none of the responsibilities. It's bullshit, and it's been bullshit from the moment the ruling was made.
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DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
50. As Randi Rhodes has said more than once,
If a corporation can't get a colostomy, then it's not a person!!!

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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
52. We need to campaign on this issue as heavily or MORE than Roe v. Wade for next SCOTUS judge!
This issue continues to have been ignored in past selections.

What many don't realize is that we've in fact lost as much ground or more with the recent SCOTUS appointments on corporate personhood and other "welfare" issues than Roe v. Wade. At least Rehnquist stood against corporate personhood at times. This new crowd? Not a CHANCE, unless we talk folks like Feingold to ask those important questions (make that DEMAND answers to those questions), especially judges who posit themselves as "constitutional constructionists".
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
60. Totally agree. n/t
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drmeow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
80. Amen, amen, amen! n/t
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Oldtimeralso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #20
106. Has anybody read the decision in
Santa Clara County v Southern Pacific Railroad not the synopsis that the robber barons paid the clerk of the Extreme Court to write. I do not believe that it was the intention of the Court to give perpetual person-hood to corporations.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
14. If the Adam Smith Institute is called a free-market think-tank (an oxymoron, if ever there was one)
Edited on Tue Aug-12-08 09:28 AM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
what would constitute a "thoughtless", or "intellectually-challenged think-tank" doesn't bear thinking about.

Indeed, isn't it the case that these so-called "think-tanks" have built up an egregious reputation for hopelessly wrong analyses and prognostications?

What makes it so scary is that it confirms what history has never ceased to reiterate, namely, that what the immensely distinguished, eminently-accredited intellectual "authorities"/"experts" keep getting wrong, is not the pedantic, piecemeal steps of logic from basic premises, but the basic, most fundamental premises, themselves, that they espouse. They are our society's own hapless version of autistic savants.

They couldn't even get the name right, since, in terms of his philosophy, Smith was unequivocally the father of the mixed-economy welfare state - the precise antithesis of their claim.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Perhaps most "think-tanks" should more aptly be called "propaganda-mills". (nt)
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #17
37. They certainly are, aren't they?
Edited on Tue Aug-12-08 11:04 AM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
15. America is being carried, litterally, upon the backs of the working class.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. As it has always been. (nt)
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drmeow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
81. For a small period of time
the working class was gaining ground. Not anymore.
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Gen. Jack D. Ripper Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. A visual aid
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
41. Where did you get that? It's great!
Everyone needs to see this.
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
19. How's Wesley Snipes feel about this?
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
21. it's not about the economy -- it's about the corporation.
their influence, their power, their ability to bend the power of this country to their will.

we hold the corporation as a golden calf -- as long as the continues -- we will continue to 'suffer' -- job insecurity, health insurance, pension, etc.
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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. Outrageous.
The inequities in taxation really frost my cupcakes. I wonder if the god & guns McSame lovers care that their man wants to make it even MORE lopsided?

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
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aka-chmeee Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
24. Nice presentation on Headline News this morning....
Immediately after reporting that tax experts were panning Obama's proposal to not tax seniors making less than $? because seniors were already getting enough consideration by government, they ran this report on corporations paying no taxes. Brilliant scheduling.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
25. Taxes are for we the little people.
Ask any republican.

Too bad the republicans forget, they're also we the little people.
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Locrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
27. excellent article here on the "Fictitious Economy"
The Fictitious Economy, Part 1, An Interview With Dr. Michael Hudson

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=696&Itemid=1

"Junk bonds came in after 1980. Around 1980 the Carter-Volkher inflation had pushed interest rates up to 20%. There were a lot of books at the time... talking about how this spelled doom for the economy, because they couldn't see how the economy could run up any more debt... But lo and behold, here came Drexel-Burnham and its legal firms. They were essentially a group of gangsters. They said we have a way of taking over companies. We're going to borrow the money, buy up the stockholders, and instead of the companies paying dividends on their stock as they have in the past, which they have to pay after taxes, they can pay twice as much in interest. In 1980, they paid 50%, so if you had a company earning 2 million dollars a year, say, it could pay a million dollars in taxes, and a million in dividends, but once the junk bond people took it over, the company could just pay two million in interest, it could pay twice as much to the debt holders.

The banks had lobbied the government for interest to be made a tax deductible expense, so essentially the taxpayers were subsidizing the takeover of industry at very high interest charges, so high that companies had to cut back their employment, cut back their investment and downsize in order to pay the people who had taken over. There were a lot of lawsuits about this, but the courts declared that all of this was basically legal. "
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
29. They must have money to create ads of slow motion happy families
holding hand while running through a field of flowers. Or laughing together. Image is so important - it costs - why pay for roads, police, fire departments, government employees and buildings when you must make yourself look good and make viewers thing that all is right with their company and the world.

See through it. Government employees are paid by us to go after us if we don't follow all the rules that corporations get in Congress and that the Pres signs or proclaims - on behalf of corporations.

Yes, see through it. Ensure profits for a few and control those rebellious citizens who want to live like they were promised and goaded into.

See through THEM.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
30. Yeah, but they're spending all that money on lobbyists and congresspersons
You know, the money they WOULD be paying in taxes, so I guess they figure it all comes out even in the end ...

:sarcasm:

Bake
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
31. Leona Helmsley may have been the Queen of Mean, but
she spoke the truth when she said that only the Little People pay taxes.

FDR is certainly rolling in his grave at this state of affairs. And Bushco is laughing all the way to the bank.
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ut oh Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
33. Oh Gee, what a surprize.......
NOT....

Too many tax loopholes for companies to drive their 'private jets' through...

And of course the gov't is going to bail out any of those same companies that 'need help'...
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
34. Wow. This is AWESOME. I mean, it's terrible, but awesome to have this hard data from the GAO no less
Enormous K & R, and OhioChick, you're awesome.

:)
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DirtyDawg Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
35. One of the more absurd, but effectivly insidious...
...tax dodges that US and other corporations use is 'Intellectual Property' royalties. The way it works is a corporation sets up a 'dummy' subsidiary in an off-shore, non-tax, country, or perhaps a Delaware or Nevada (states that don't have corporate income taxes). They place all the company's intellectual property - patents, trademarks, etc., even the name of the company and its products and services, in that company, which then charges the rest of the corporation for the use of those patents, including the actual name of the company in commerce. The fees generally start at 5% - usually more - of total sales, a charge that is 'forgiven' in the calculation of 'net-income' performance by the officers (in other words it doesn't negatively impact their bonus structure)...and if the company is operating on a narrow margin in the first place, it could eliminate the entire annual net profit of said corporation. In one large, regional, multi-state corporation alone, this 'tax-dodge' skimmed off $30 million annually of state corporate income taxes that they would/should have otherwise paid to the states in which they operated...and that doesn't include the federal taxes avoided when those subsidiaries are set up off-shore and the 'fees' charged reduces the revenue, and the accompanying federal tax, and sends it the the corporate bottom line - that may also be incorporated out of the US...can you say Halliburton to Dubia?
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
36. Yet, they gripe about America's "high corporate tax rate", which few of them
pay anyway!
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raebrek Donating Member (467 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
39. I am most interested in
who the corporations are and why the year stops at 2005? Something is amiss.

Raebrek!!!
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
40. Here's the real rub: Wealthy people persuaded Congress
to cut the rate on capital gains on their stock investment profits on the ground that it's double taxation since the corporation pays the taxes. In fact, nobody is paying the taxes on the major part of the income in the U.S. Remember, wages have not risen. Income from stocks has risen for the CEOs.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
45. K & R ...
:kick:
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ColonelTom Donating Member (415 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
46. B-B-but... U.S. corporations pay plenty of taxes!
If we didn't make workers pay income taxes, the corporations wouldn't have to overpay them so much to make up for it.

Note: this message contains :sarcasm:
(A public service announcement for the sarcasm-impaired.)
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
47. how patriotic of Corporate America
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
76. Corporations have no loyalty to any country
their loyalty lies in wealth, nothing more.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #76
87. they sure love to advertise as being patriotic
I know the reality but I also see those in power of corporations talking a big shit game about being American, and how they love freedom, are pro-war, blah, blah, blah....

anyone who uses that line of thought as a defense is nothing more than a sociopath.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
48. Yet another reason to hate the corps. nt
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scrinmaster Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
49. How much federal tax does DU pay?
It is a corporation, after all.
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DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
51. That's why Halliburton was moved to Dubai
Not surprising at all.
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montanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
55. WHAT???!!? Say it ain't so!!
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
56. uh, no shit
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asksam Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
57. A little misleading, I think....
When I saw the story on Reuters, there was a key difference...

In the OP it says: "two-thirds of American corporations paid zero income taxes to Uncle Sam between 1998 and 2005."


In Reuters it says: "and about 57 percent of U.S. companies doing business in the United States paid no federal income taxes for at least one year between 1998 and 2005."

The difference being that in the OP's story, the corps didn't pay any taxes over the eight year span, while in the Reuter's story, they only didn't pay any taxes in *at least one year* of that span. IOW, in other years, they may have.

Since a corp only pays taxes when there is a profit, the only ones to pay taxes in all those years are the ones that turned a profit *every* year. However, about 57% didn't turn a profit in at least one year. That sounds perfectly legitimate to me... there are years (especially during the dot-com burst, which is covered in this period) when companies may not have had profits.

You can argue that they should have to pay taxes on sales instead of profits, but under the existing system, this doesn't sound suspicious at all.


Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1249465620080812?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. There are lots of loopholes to turning profit into breaking even and therefore
there are no corporate taxes. I have watched accountants take my trial balance and do some switching of debits and credits here and there turning the profits into expenses and other accounting wizardry. We really need to tighten corporate law on this so the companies pay a fair share of taxes.
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asksam Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Agreed....
Edited on Tue Aug-12-08 12:59 PM by asksam
... things can be manipulated. However, under the current system, it's not apparent to me that the figures the GAO put out should be wrong. In fact, I'm actually somewhat amazed that over 40% of corps actually turned a profit *every* year from 1998 to 2005.

As I said, if you want to change the system, then by all means, I'm for that. But as is, I can't see why anyone is surprised by this.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #63
99. It rather depends on many details.
Start-ups that never made money and vanished are included. I worked for one, and it had many hundreds of thousands in sales, but hemorrhaged money.

It also includes small corporations that people put together and did little with. I've known incorporated translators, for tax purposes, who try it for a tax season and dissolve the corporation or reincorporate under different rules, or even get a job.

It was requested for political purposes, the press release prior to publication is for political purposes. Often the press release would be derided were it to occur after publication. Whether or not the real intent of the agency's research arm is met--providing a foundation for informed legislation--remains to be seen.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
59. The real Welfare Queens
never go near the low-income housing district.

:puke: :puke: :puke:
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
62. A dream of mine would be to make the Chamber of Commerce types in this country stroke out.
Close the loopholes on corporate taxation and make them pay their way.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
65. NO REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION!!
We should call a HALT to the biggest free ride of all time!
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
66. The Republican rationale...
The Republicans believe, although not as adamantly as they used to, that corporate taxation is really double taxation. The rationale is that the profits are shared with the shareholders and they are the ones who pay the corporate taxes through income and capital gains taxes and they are the ones who should pay the corporate taxes since they really are the owners.

Of course the Republicans also used this rationale to lower the capital gains taxes. That the corporations had already paid taxes and the shareholders in essence were being taxed as well and so it was double taxation. Of course in reality most corporations don't pay taxes and never have. They pay limited taxes in the form of excise and ad valorem taxes. But even then they manage to "work deals" to lower the taxes they do pay. The ones that do pay actual income taxes manage to also obtain tax credits as we saw with many of the hedge fund managers who paid taxes but also managed to earned tax credits which actually put more money in their pockets than they had to begin with. Something is wrong when you can make a profit by paying taxes but that is what many hedge fund managers have done.

Reality is we have become a nation "by the corporation, for the corporation." We are an oligarchy.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
67. ON PAPER the USA has one of the highest corporate tax rates, however,
Edited on Tue Aug-12-08 01:27 PM by Raster
as the GAO report clearly states, that does not translate to actual taxes paid. The cold, hard, fucking truth is that slowly but surely the tax burden has been shifted to almost EXCLUSIVELY TO THE INDIVIDUAL. And once you thoroughly examine those numbers, it becomes appallingly apparent that the richer you are, the less percentage of taxes you pay. The tax laws favor the wealthy and corporations because the wealthy and corporations can spend BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR lobbying Congress. BILLIONS. And you probably can't even get your Congressperson to send you a form letter, much less return your call. There is a war on the lower classes of this country. And by lower classes, I mean ANYONE THAT IS NOT IN THE TOP 10% TAX BRACKET. And in this war one of the chief weapons is TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. And make no mistake, unless you are in the top 10% of the income of this country, you ARE NOT REPRESENTED IN CONGRESS.

We are in the process of the largest transfer of wealth is this country's history. NO, not T. Boone Nosepicker's petroleum wealth transfer. I'm talking about the transfer of this country's wealth to the wealthiest top 5% of citizens.
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
70. Most corporations retain no profits, therefore, no taxes.
The vast majority of "corporations" are small companies, like mine, that are structured to not retain corporate profits, but pass along the profits to the shareholders, whether it be one person, a few, or thousands.

If my company has $10,000 in profit at the end of the fiscal year, and retains it, it's taxed at something like 30%, leaving $7000, which if it is then paid to me as a bonus in the next year, is taxed at the individual rates, including FICA, State, City, etc. so that would be another 40% or so, getting it down to $4200 or so of after tax income.

If instead, my company pays me a bonus at the end of the fiscal year of $10,000, it reduces the "profit" of the company to roughly zero, so no corporate taxes paid. I still pay individual taxes on the higher amount, 40% of $10K, leaving $6000 or so, meaning I receive an extra $1800 just because the money was distributed when it should have been.

When a large, publicly held company pays a stock dividend, essentially it's "offloading" its profits from the fiscal year to individuals, who are taxed on that income. This is different than capital gains tax. Corporations exist not to accumulate wealth, but generate income for shareholders.

While I'm not defending Exxon or other corporations with deceptive business practices like shifting income offshore to avoid taxes, to a certain extent, this is sort of the lefty equivalent of Rush saying "a huge percentage of poor people pay no taxes" -- it's true, but it's because technically most corporations (and poor people) don't retain enough profit/income to be taxed.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Point of information -- you probably have a Sub-S corporation
Edited on Tue Aug-12-08 02:17 PM by HamdenRice
which does not pay taxes on income distributed to shareholders. Large corporations are not allowed to be sub s, and they are supposed to pay taxes on income, even if that income is later distributed as dividends -- hence the wail of "double taxation" on corporate profits.

They do not pay taxes on income distributed as bonuses and salaries, because bonuses and salaries are costs to the corporation (while dividends remain profits).

Sub S was enacted to give small business owners the flexibility and limited liability of the corporate form without the double taxation, ie, the taxation of partnerships.
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Karl_Bonner_1982 Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
71. Closing the loopholes would generate a lot of revenue
If we closed down ALL of the loopholes and enacted modest increases on the rates that corps and multimillionaires are supposed to pay, the combination would net a ton of cash to use on social projects.

Odd as it sounds though, I'd rather have corporations pay up at a slightly lower rate than not pay at all. As long as the aggregate taxes actually paid by the upper economic class goes up considerably, it will be fine. We sometimes forget that taxes are only a piece of the picture when it comes to America's journey from massive inequality to postwar middle class and back to inequality. We need to look at things such as union rights, regulations, education, healthcare and social norms on Wall Street if we fully want to bring about a second Great Compression as Paul Krugman suggests.
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JPZenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
72. If owners work for the company, they avoid taxes through bonuses
If all of the owners of a company are also employees, it is simple to avoid paying corporate income taxes. You simply pay out all of the available funds to the employees as bonuses before the end of the tax year. I believe that is common with small businesses.
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
77. you ought to send this to the networks and tell them this is why everybody is turning to the net

for news because they won't report anything the Repubs don't clear like this GAO report.

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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #77
102. Send the report to them.
Press releases often gloss over important details or are misleading.

Take "The study says about two-thirds of American corporations paid zero income taxes to Uncle Sam between 1998 and 2005", for example. It's perfectly correct. But probably not on the most common interpretation. The interpretation that's almost certainly intended is harder to arrive at.

This isn't the place, however, for a lecture on the different kinds of ordered tuplets you get when quantifying over the constituent parts of the verb's event structure, so I'll pass on that particular pleasure.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
78. THIS needs to be shouted from the mountaintops every time
McCain and company want to claim that we're the ones going to be tough on the middle class and raise their taxes.

If Joe Average is paying taxes, I don't think he's going to love the idea that Corporationg Huge pays none - AND gets treated in many other ways like an individual.
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NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
79. Here's what I don't get...
The right loves to rattle on about being patriotic, and about how they, of course, have a better idea of what a "real American" is supposed to be.

You know what my idea of a patriotic American is? Someone that pays their F**king taxes, and F**king likes it because they are paying to support the "greatest nation on Earth." I'm so damn tired of those sorry little bitches whining about how much they have to pay in taxes. They want their cake, our cake, everbody elses' cake, and by God they'll eat it all.

If we do nothing but cut taxes, and never work to pay down our debt (much less cover the yearly budget) then this nation WILL FAIL.

Why do they hate America?
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asksam Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Excuse me...
I thought that criticism of the government was something that we allowed and encouraged.

You and I may not think that the rich are taxed enough, but that doesn't change the fact that the rich are entitled to complain about how much they pay. The first amendment still applies, even to the rich. If we can complain about Bush and the Repubs, then they can complain about taxes.

*That's* what makes our country great.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
83. we say it often, but if there were any repubs left on the fencE
who aren't totally kool-aid infested from head to toe - this is the kind of story that should make them disgusted...


mclame/mcsame/mcwar & more at ---
www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #83
93. I just tried to click through to the cafepress store in your sig
and was filtered by the WebSense firewall....for the whole country of Saudi Arabia, where I'm currently working...would've liked to see your designs. Kind of apropos to the discussion, eh?
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #93
103. I've got a design for about every situation that involves this disgusting cryptic mess that W has
put us in, yes. thank you for trying to look at them. In the DU Marketplace I have some links, with some images, but I would then assume they're blocked too, since the links originate from cafepress.

Thanks though!
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. it's your site that's blocked
others from cafepress are fine.
I jumped around and some stores are censored, some aren't, and it affects both right wing and left wing merchandise.

Here's the filter returned:

The Websense category "Racism and Hate" is filtered.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. wow....
wth? how do I go about addressing that, you think? There's certainly no racism. I call B*sh a 'fuktard' on a sticker which has sold repeatedly over the past few years, but hatred? Bizarre. They don't like being slammed apparently. If anyone has ideas about this, or you do, please let me know, as I think that it's unfair to say I promote hatred. You can see some of my other designs at www.cafepress.com/mcsame08 you certainly should be able to get in there, as it only shows the two heads and the words mcsame. Also, www.cafepress.com/mclame08

thanks
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
84. K & R
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
85. In other news: Tennis balls round, sun rises in East, and Dick Cheney eats live babies. n/t
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Doug.Goodall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
86. During the RayGun years we were told that a rising tide lifted all boats
I guess the richest people just have bigger boats.
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YankeyMCC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
88. Meanwhile McSame is out there
saying how we have the 2nd highest corp tax rate (regardless of how many actually pay that rate) and that he promises to lower it. :eyes:
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
90. and my little brother, who doesn't earn enough to keep his fridge half full,
is being audited by the IRS....
(I take him grocery shopping at least once a month just to make sure there's something in that frig...)
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
91. This can't be a 'surprise' to anyone?!
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
92. Ah, the ever-present stink of
unabashed capitalism....it's all about socializing the risk and privatizing the profits.
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bronxiteforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
94. "Taxes we don't pay no stinking taxes!" say the Corporate Thieves
:nuke:
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
95. funny......they keep wanting me to pay mine
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Robert Oak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
96. More Details here
I wrote up a blog post on The Economic Populist going into the details.

Bottom line is they cannot determine precisely what is going on, especially with abuses as well as incentives to offshore outsource.

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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
97. DUH
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DebJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
98. Their profits are hiding in Liechtenstein bank.
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ChromeFoundry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
100. Should I even be suprised? n/t
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
101. "could be because of operating losses and tax credits"
Let me see if I understand this. Corporations need corporate welfare and tax credits to cover expenses, while they have their executives donate huge sums to the major parties, insuring the continuation of the "party" of corporate control and domination of our society and culture.

Throw us, the little people in jail, taser us, break our legs when we demonstrate, tell us we're stupid, that if we don't like the police we are "bigots" (a DUer recently told me this), that we need more education, that we need drug testing in the workplace because we're not trusted, all the while corporations are on the public payroll, socializing losses and privatizing profits to a few well-connected cronies, who among other gradiose royalties ends up in huge donations to the political parties so that these corporations can keep beating us down and breaking our legs and telling us we're liars and druggies and in need of "surveillance".

But if we point this out, we're "bigots". If we don't like educated people because they lie for their employers and slip the knife continually in our backs, then we're bigots simply because we want some honesty and equal treatment, which we never get from our corporate rulers.
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DallasNE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
110. Companies Don't Stay In Business Long With Operating Losses
So that leaves tax credits as the reason 2/3 of American companies pay no federal income tax. An how do these tax credits may their way into law? That, my friend, is the classic earmark your Congressman and Senator are putting in bills at the last minute.

Having said that, not all tax credits are bad. For instance, tax credits as an incentive to produce alternate energy are worthwhile and represent sound policy. Most of these tax credits, however, are nothing more than a rebate check to offset taxes rightfully owed. Those need to be ended.
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trudyco Donating Member (975 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
112. How about an Alternative Minimum Tax for Corp based on CEO
Compensation package for the year (or maybe for top 5 highest paid employees) as well as lobbyist money spent (say you pay tax equal to 5 times what you pay on lobbyists)?

Also a minimum local tax to all retail companies that set up shop there - so local politicos don't get bamboozled into giving huge tax breaks to lure companies in. And companies can not pretend to collect local sales tax which the local politicos have allowed them to keep.

So if a company has an operating loss but pays outrageous compensation packages for it's highest paid employees, or spends huge amounts on lobbying - well they'll have to factor in the tax hit, too.
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