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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:39 PM
Original message
One shot at Arkansas Democratic Party headquarters (assassination attempt)
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:11 PM by EarlG
Source: CNN

One person was shot Wednesday at the Little Rock, Arkansas, headquarters of the state Democratic Party, police said.

The Arkansas Democratic Party said the chairman, Bill Gwatney, was hospitalized after the shooting, CNN affiliate KTHV reported. Little Rock police would not confirm or deny whether Gwatney was shot.

Little Rock police Lt. Terry Hastings said that the victim was in critical condition at the hospital.

The suspect, who fled the scene after the shooting in a pickup truck, led police on a chase into Grant County before being shot, Hastings said.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/13/arkansas.shooting/index.html
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Shooting at AR Democratic Party HQ (in Arkansas)
Source: KATV

Shooting at AR Democratic Party HQ
Shots fired within office at Democratic Party HQ, victim is a white male who police say is in a serious condition. Witnesses say suspect asked to see the chairman, was taken into the building and then 3 gunshots were heard. Suspect is currently being chased by police in Grant County.

Read more: http://www.katv.com/
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Shooting at AR Democratic Party HQ - Suspect Believed Dead
A shooting occured Tuesday at the Arkansas Democractic Party Headquarters leaving one victim - a white male - in serious condition.

Witnesses say the suspect asked to see the Party chairman, entered the building and some time later three gunshots were heard.

The suspect fled by vehicle, was chased by police and is now believed dead.



http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0808/543890.html
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. The AP story says that the suspect is in custody.
I guess we'll know the truth soon enough.
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Ex Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
420. This may yet turn out to be
political, but it's sounding more like a guy who just snapped. He was fired from his job earlier in the day after behaving erratically, and after the shooting went down the street to the Arkansas Baptist offices, where a quick thinking employee ushered him out before he could do any harm. Pending more information, this guy's target list seems non-ideological.
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norepubsin08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
327. Yahoo is saying that
The State Democratic Chair has died....it's time to prosecute Rush, Hannity, Coulter et al as co defendants in this!!!
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #327
368. I don't know what you could charge them with.

They can maybe be sued for criminal incitement, but the success of that is in doubt, and the last thing our party needs right now is to make right-wing hosts into martyrs when its our people who are getting murdered.

Moreover, those scumbags never said people should shoot Democrats, and they don't lead an organization that does it. I doubt very seriously that they want Liberals and Democrats murdered (except Ann Coulter has said we should be tried for treason, which is punishable by death).

First, let's hear more about the perp.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #368
422. Free speech does not include inciting people to commit hate crimes
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #422
423. Just like it doesn't give you the right to yell fire in a crowded theatre
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #423
548. Except in this case, the theater would always be crowded. (eom)
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norepubsin08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #368
518. How about
conspiracy in an assassination, aiding and abetting, accessory to murder, incitement of violence, voter suppression, criminal intimidation, illegal use of FCC airwaves, civil right violations, hate crimes, treason for undermining the political process! Usually a good prosecutor could find SOMETHING to charge and make it stick!!!
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #518
549. I wouldn't be too careless about opening up the arsenal of charges to suppress speech.

You should be afraid of where it would be used next, especially after the B-Administration killed every other right. Say the wrong thing and you might disappear.

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sadly Inevitable.
There will be more. That said, it is a sad commentary that such brutal events may serve to break up the complacency and magical thinking in our own ranks.

I repeat: There will be more of these horrible events between now and November and if we win, after as well.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
162. certainly feels like a nation divided; even Mukasey DoJ can't prosecute partisan law breakers
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #162
424. It's not a nation divided, it's a nation wher dissent is called treason
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #424
425. Not a nation divided, a nation held hostage by a few who cheated to gain power.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
166. Spot on
I think this is totally accurate. But no one seems to take these threats seriously.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. These talk radio hosts need to be stopped.
They are pushing fragile people over the edge with their hateful bile.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Oh please
You got the facts? Let's share them if so. Could be another jealous ex with a deathwish.

Some radio hosts suck badly but I'll be damn if I will use them as a scapegoat for
some sick fuck out to harm others. I'd start by blaming the shooter and go from there.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. RW hate radio has been telling their listeners to take out Dems for years.
You really don't think that has an effect?
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CrazyDude Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #26
72. Name one specific instance of a talk radio host advocating violence against Democrats n/t
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #72
78. Michael Savage on a daily basis.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #78
102. thank you
the 'pro-lifers' effectively took out some clinics by killing the doctors; and they were often exhorted to do so by the talking haters on TV, radio and the internet.

Those who think that the blame/hate sewage on the airwaves has no effect or consequence are delusional.

Fragile psyches, easy guns and hate speech ...
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #78
235. It looks like all the FP came over to stick up for this kind of action..even
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 03:25 PM by movonne
if he was due to some other kind of lover revenge...the RW talk and the media encourage this hate talk..
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #235
258. Yes, it's the same response as when the Knoxville UU Church Shooting occurred
This one seems more like a workplace issue-the shooter was laid off. We know for a fact that the Knoxville shooting was motivated by hate talk.
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #235
313. I was wondering where these aliens came from!! n/t
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #78
383. limbaugh on a daily basis.
Overtly AND covertly.

It stems from the general, ongoing demonizing and demeaning and belittling Dems and liberals, calling us names, sneering at us, making us out to be ungodly, subhuman, traitors, terrorist-lovers, America-haters, baby-killers, feminazis (ever heard THAT one?), commies, socialists, fill-in-the-blank-heres. That starts to get to people - it gets into their minds and predisposes them toward hating and wishing to persecute or sequester or otherwise rid themselves of liberals, "a national blight." And it's okay to think so because limbaugh said so, and limbaugh's big and rich and famous so he must be doing something "right", 'eh?

Most of his listeners and followers merely listen to be amused or to feel validation (like the weenie on the playground who befriends the big behemoth). Relatively speaking, they're harmless.

But there's that small segment. There's a small segment in virtually every population - the teeny head or tail end of the snake - that isn't harmless. Sometimes they take as gospel what these assholes are saying. And if they're fired up on the proverbial hate-radio steroids, who knows what they might do?

And remember, limbaugh's already exhorted his dittoheads to create mayhem and mischief in Denver when the Dems are in convention. References to riots and overturned cars - people do tend to get hurt in those things.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #72
107. why, because you're so damn lazy to look it up on google yourself, CrazyDude
1. Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never forget what these people stood for."

2. Senator Phil Gramm: "We're going to keep building the party until we're hunting Democrats with dogs."

3. Rep. James Hansen on Bill Clinton: Get rid of the guy. Impreach him, censure him, assassinate him."

4. John Derbyshire intimated in the National Review that because Chelsea Clinton had "the taint," she should "be killed."

5. Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too."

6. Ann Coulter: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building."

7. Bill O'Reilly: "ll those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains."


That's just SOME of the spewed filth of the hundreds of incidents where they've advocated violence towards liberals, Gays, Democrats, and these are just SOME of the better known repubs doing it - there's hundreds smaller swine of the GOP who've said the same.

You, CrazyDude, are lazy.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. no because he's full of shit
anyone on the internet has the capability and ease to know what we already know...
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #110
389. the capability and ease to know what we already know
good point.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable
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av8rdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #107
199. Look at the post count. He may well be a troll.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #199
229. may well be?
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 03:32 PM by Truth2Tell
There are two piling on here. Both have been glaringly obvious for some time. Now rushing to the defense of their Rush.

I hope the pizzas are in the oven.

Edit to add: turns out it's a flying monkey attack. A whole swarm, not just two. My bad. Evidently all ya gotta do is besmirch their heroes and they can't help but out themselves.
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av8rdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #229
380. I sorta figured....was trying to stay "opn minded" How ironic! LOL
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #229
513. looks like that pizza's been cooked.
;-)
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raincity_calling Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #107
222. RW hosts and their hatred always reminds me
of a scene from the movie "Hotel Rwanda." The Hutu militia radio broadcasts, calling the Tutsi people cockroaches and that the cockroaches must be killed. It was chilling. And the hate coming forth from Ann Coulter, Savage, et al is no different, and it has the same effect - generates hatred and ultimately violence.
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gratefultobelib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #107
410. I am so damned naive. I sincerely didn't know this kind of hate talk was going on. Of course,
it's because I never listen to or read these people. Thank you for the timely research. I'm going to be using this.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #72
113. Are you kidding with that question?
8643
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #72
114. Michael Savage Wiener..
"You will not have a nation unless you awaken to the reality that America has become pacified; America has become feminized; and America is being compromised from without and within," Savage warns. "You cannot let them get away with this. Can America be saved? Is it too late? I believe that with God's will and with your determination to confront the mental disorder of liberalism whenever and wherever it is found, America can both survive and thrive."

In so many words, that statement is advocating violence against Liberals and gays.

Of course they never quite say "Kill the Liberals", well Coulter does, but Limbaugh and others have been giving listeners the "wink-wink" for years.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #114
544. So . . . you can't show a woman's breast on TV, but you can get on the radio and
advocate murder of liberals . . .

Where in the hell are the Democrats --- ????
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desktop Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #72
118. Are you kidding or are you in the wrong website
"I’ll tell you who should be tortured and killed at Guantanamo — every
filthy Democrat in the U.S. Congress."
— Sean Hannity

"To fight only the al-Qaeda scum is to miss the terrorist network
operating within our own borders... Who are these traitors? Every
rotten radical left-winger in this country, that's who."
— Michael Savage

"Liberalism is the greatest threat this country faces."
— Rush Limbaugh

"It is not a stretch to say that MoveOn is the new Klan."
— Bill O’Reilly

"I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I'm wondering if I
could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it.
No, I think I could."
— Glenn Beck

"We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically
intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed,
too."
— Ann Coulter

"The Islamofascists are actually campaigning for the election of
Democrats. Islamofascists from Ahmadinejad to al-Zawahiri, Oba --
Osama bin Laden, whoever, are constantly issuing Democrat talking
points."
— Rush Limbaugh

"There are things in life worth fighting and dying for and one of ‘em
is making sure Nancy Pelosi doesn’t become the speaker."
— Sean Hannity


"I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough around so we can have two on every campus - living fossils - so we will never forget what these people stood for."

Rush Limbaugh
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ForeignSpectator Donating Member (970 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #118
243. OMG, how can an entire country put up with such filth?! Just take glenn beck, he is on cnn, right?
Such utter stupidity, absurdity and hatred in all these statements and NO consequences whatsoever?!?
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johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #118
304. Thanks, desktop. Scary
Where did you find these quotes?
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desktop Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #304
312. answer
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Misc/misc.invest.stocks/2008-08/msg00113.html
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #72
124. Rush Limbaugh
"I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never forget what these people stood for."
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #72
126. Liddy and plenty others during the Clinton/Reno years
of course, they never say "go out and kill dems" directly, but there is a phone book's worth of loaded codewords, subtext, and calls for action that can only be interpreted one way
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #72
139. Ann Coulter, with her "baseball bat" quote
Ann Coulter on tour: "I think a baseball bat is the most effective way these days" to talk to liberals.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200410070004
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #139
398. Fine Ann
You bring your baseball bat - I'll bring my Ruger .357 magnum.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #72
178. Ever right winger's favorite son Rush Limpballs
“Riots in Denver, the Democrat Convention would see to it that we don’t elect Democrats,” Limbaugh said during Wednesday’s radio broadcast. He then went on to say that’s the best thing that could happen to the country…

…Limbaugh said with massive riots in Denver, which he called “Operation Chaos,” the people on the far left would look bad.

“We do, hopefully, the right thing for the sake of this country. We’re the only one in charge of our affairs. We don’t farm out our defense if we elect Democrats … and riots in Denver, at the Democratic Convention will see to it we don’t elect Democrats. And that’s the best damn thing that can happen to this country, as far as I can think,” Limbaugh said…Rush
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hasssan1 Donating Member (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #178
205. Somone should Arrest This motherfucker
For advocating Riot , violence , threat against public safety and so many other criminal charges.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #205
254. Let me tell you: ALL of them would be arrested if they said THOSE things on Dutch airwaves...
We have laws saying you can't "spread hatred against" or "intentionally and gravely insult" specific groups of people. If you would be a Dutch host and you would tell your listeners to 'take out' liberals on a daily basis, you would be thrown of the airwaves and into jail.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #254
268. I thank God that we have freedom of speech embedded in our Constitution.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #268
297. I thank God the Dutch understand yelling 'kill the liberals!' is NOT freedom of speech.
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 04:24 PM by DutchLiberal
Really, what IS the difference between Limbaugh and Savage (et al.) repeating over and over again liberals are evil and should be 'taken out'/'destroyed'... and the Rwanda radio stations which said the same about the Tutsis?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #268
333. I Love How the Right Wing Tries to Hide Behind Rights
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #333
552. Yeah, just when you thought the Constitution was only "a goddamned piece of paper"...
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 12:30 PM by DutchLiberal
I'm a fan of irony, but those guys are carrying it a little too far...
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:13 PM
Original message
That is because the Dutch clearly remember
The last time hate speech was used to slaughter millions of people.
we seem to have forgotten all of that.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #254
329. Goed zo!
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #329
331. LOL! Dank je!
Are you Dutch? Or do you or your family come from Holland?
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #331
396. I married a man from there and lived there with him for a couple years. Our son was born in Utrecht.
:hi:
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #396
551. Utrecht? That's were I live!
Only now I see your username is also Dutch. :blush:
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #254
348. Stop making me envious of the Netherlands!
My 14-year-old niece keeps asking me "Why are people so much smarter in Europe?" What am I supposed to answer?
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #348
553. I don't think we are. If we were, we wouldn't keep electing politicians who keep screwing us...
It's a universal thing, I guess. :shrug:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #72
223. You're still here?? Wow.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #72
248. Go fuck yourself
:hi:
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #72
255. Thursday, Jan. 26, 2006
"We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens' creme brulee," Coulter said.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2006/01/27/coulter/index.html

Lose your bridge to foreclosure yet?
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Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #72
283. rush, orieley, coulter, dobson
they all do. from time to time.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #72
292. Michael Reagan offered to pay for the bullets for those who would
take out liberals.
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #72
319. Wow, are you on another planet or what?
They've been doing this on a regular basis since at least JFK was in office.

It's even worse since the rightwing dominates the talk show air waves these days. Since 9/11, America has been poisoned on a regular basis by the violence embedded into right-wing language on the airwaves.

Often we hear of nuts who are fans of these right wing talk show hosts, and they end up being messed up so much from listening to the right wing garbage-baiting against Democrats, liberals, ect., they eventually go on killing sprees. It almost always turns out that the guy is a big fan of one or more of these fascist nutballs on the air, like Rush, Savage, O'Reilly, Hannity, et. al.

Keith Olbermann receives envelopes at his home containing white powder (anthrax scare). These were sent by someone who admitted to being an "acolyte" of Michele Malkin and Ann Coulter.

Here's another typical and recent example:

On Sunday, 27 Jul 2008, 58-year-old Jim Adkisson entered the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church during a children’s performance of the musical “Annie Jr.” In a guitar case, he carried a shotgun and 76 rounds. Adkisson killed two church members, Greg McKendry (60) and Linda Kraeger (61), and wounded six more before he was wrestled to the ground as he tried to reload. What was Adkisson’s motive? A report from the local Knoxville news details the findings from Adkisson's home, along with key statements from a document written by Adkisson related to an apparent motive behind the violent attack that rocked the suburban community:

"Adkisson targeted the church, 'because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets.'

I would even have to include right Rev. Pat Robertson's call for the assassination of Hugo Chavez.

See also Daily Kos more instances of rightwing talkshow violence against Democrats:

"When Ann Coulter can talk about poisoning a Supreme Court Justice who isn’t sufficiently right wing bat shit insane, when Bill O’Reilly can talk about al Qaeda coming to bomb San Francisco and that being just peachy with him, when Michele Malkin can incite unhinged followers to target an 11 year old boy and his family over health insurance, when Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and whoever else rails against how Bill and Hillary Clinton are socialist communist pigs that are the root of all evil in this world, when Glenn Beck asks a sitting Congressman to "prove he isn’t a terrorist" just because he is Muslim, when the Washington friggin Post spreads lies about Barack Obama based on xenophobia, this type of hatred becomes mainstream."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/1/11117/4376
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #319
522. I saved this quote from a Knoxville newspaper

According to the News-Sentinel, Knoxville police department investigator Steve Still wrote in the search warrant that Jim David Adkisson, the man who was arrested in the rampage, went to the church "because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets."

Adkisson, who had served in the military, said "that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement he would then target those that had voted them in office," the search warrant states. Among the items seized from Adkisson's house were three books: "The O'Reilly Factor," by television commentator Bill O'Reilly; "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder," by radio personality Michael Savage; and "Let Freedom Ring," by political pundit Sean Hannity.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #72
325. WOW. Your name says it all.
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #72
339. Does advocating the bombing of San Fransisco count?
Dumb ass mutha effer.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #72
341. Rush Limbaugh, calling for riots in Denver...
Michael Savage...(nee Weiner), calling for the beheading of gays.

Limbaugh again, calling for the death of several less than prominant D's after Vince Foster's suicide.


The RW lives on fear, they are always calling for the death of someone, albeit usually in some kind of "code".
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TN al Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #72
359. Rush Limbaugh offered to pay for the first two stitches of any Democrat beaten by a repub.
Chuck Baker wound up Francisco Duran to take shots at the white house. And Jim Adkisson, who shot up a knoxville church, thought that all liberals should be killed because they are ruining America. They found books by Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly at his home and he was a listener to both O'Reilly and Hannity. The list is pretty long.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #72
361. Name one specific instance of a talk radio host condemning violence against Democrats n/t
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #72
369. Michael Savage has repeatedly called for Sen. Durbin to be "drug out of the Senate in chains" for...


....what Savage calls "sedition" (quoting an American officer's description of American actions in an official Army report, while debating a bill on the Senate floor).
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #72
407. You, my friend, are either hard of hearing
or ignorant! Check out the posts below for your instances. RW hate radio is horrible. It lowers one's IQ just listening to it.
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #72
415. From the drugster limbaugh's lips to your ears:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjwE-kJpyts
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #415
418. Did we ever settle that question about whether or not Limpballs
--was a pedophile junkie? I saw something about that on those Internets tubes.
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #418
541. Unaware of this, sorry...
If his pedophile issue is limited only to looking at stuff online and what he does is all legal-(well we already knew that the man is a sicko)-then I'll not be too down on him all things considered. It is his constant non-stop hate that he spews daily that I take my most serious issue with. However if he were to be busted for being a criminal pedophile then I would like to see him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #72
428. Follow the Link.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3790402
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #72
519. O'Reilly on a daily basis
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
99. no
I don't.

If you're crazy enough to kill someone because Rush or Ann said to, you are crazy enough to do it all on your own.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #99
174. BS!!!
Right-wing hate gives the guy a match, a can of gasoline, and for 24/7/365 a year tells him "that building over there is the root of all evil"

Then, when the guy burns the building to the ground, they say; "I have no idea why a person would do such a thing".

Remember, some of the first folks dealt with at Nuremberg were the propagandist.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #174
272. Maybe we need to start reminding the Corpse M$M of this fact,
often and loudly.

They are complete cowards, besides being traitors, every one of them would roll in a minute if they thought "enhanced interrogation", otherwise known as TORTURE, and prison waited for them.

Execution for treason these days, I wonder?
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #174
411. right-wing hate-speak hits my ears too
(and yours) and yet we have burned no buildings to the ground. I read Townhall.com, FreeRepublic and Drudge and yet I have no killed no liberals.

ERGO,

the fault lies with the arsonist, in your analogy, not with the gasbags on the right.

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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #99
236. Ever see "Hotel Rwanda"?
The Hutus were told to "Kill the Tutsi cockroaches!", and they did. Jozef Goebbels and Julius Streicher dehumanized Jews, comparing them to rats and other vermin, so that the German population would be receptive to having them carted off and packed into cattle cars.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #236
247. What does all of this have to do with today's events?
Based on the information we have, nothing.

Chill, people. Y'all look silly with all of this.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #247
350. I envy your complacency.
To hear what's going on with right-wing radio and to say "Chill, people. Y'all look silly." Wow. That takes some kind of willful blindness! Y'all must be pretty dang laid back.
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #236
414. can we not compare everything bad that happens in the world
to the Holocaust?

That was um, kind of an extreme situation. Same with Rwanada. We are a far, far, far, far, far cry from those types of events in this country, in respect to Republicans killing Democrats.

It's ok to be vigilant about hate-speech, but damn people. This is getting out of hand.
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The Hope Mobile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #414
416. This is an exteme situation.
Fascism is fascism. The goals and results are the same.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #99
366. So, if someone on the radio called for everyone to torch YOUR house
You'd be all right with that.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
144. Agreed. Before you can have hateful acts, you have to have hateful speech. nt
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
35. Right Wing Terrorist in the US have been showing their ugly heads lately.
Just need eyes to see it.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
371. Lately?
They've been doing it since before I was born. Before 911, the worst acts of terrorism in this country have been done by RWingers.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
36. Isn't that exactly how it started in Rwanda, though?
Hate radio?

And didn't that guy that shot up the church recently have books by these people in his car?

Yeah, I'd say it is time, and past time, to hold the hatemongers on talk radio accountable.
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
91. Yes, and they are being sought/tried for war crimes.
Julius Streicher (sp?) was a Nazi propagandist tried and executed after WWII. We have in the past held hatemongers accountable, and it's time that we did it in this country.
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Calling for the execution of conservatives?
Who's the hatemonger now?
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #93
105. Can you point out to me which poster called for the execution on conservatives?
because I'm not seeing it here.
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #105
112. Read the comment above me
"Julius Streicher (sp?) was a Nazi propagandist tried and executed after WWII. We have in the past held hatemongers accountable, and it's time that we did it in this country."
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #112
125. I don't believe in the death penalty
but I DO believe in holding propagandists accountable.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #112
135. I did and he advocated no such thing.
the poster explained how one person was held accountable in the past. I did not see where he said execute the current hatemongers. Saying someone needs to be held accountable in this country is quite a leap from saying someone should be executed.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:34 PM
Original message
That's not calling for the "execution" of conservatives
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:40 PM by maxrandb
That's calling for justice!

You forgot to bold the "tried" part of the sentence. It appears just before the "and executed" part you bolded.

Big difference.

You're not saying we should have just let the Nazi Propagandist go, are you?

You're not using the "Julius Streicher was just an entertainer defense, are you?
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #112
353. Well, WTF are you whining about? YOUR BUDDIES on the right
are the ones creaming their shorts in their excitement over their beloved death penalty.......
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #112
370. You competely skipped over the "tried" part of that sentence
I wonder if today's shooter and the one who shot up the church held a "trial" first, before opening fire.
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #93
122. Did you forget the sarcasm icon?
Because I'm pointing to a historical basis that ties hatemongering propaganda to crimes like genocide and murder. If you think there's no connection, then you have no grasp of history.
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #122
138. And history has a lot of people like you
People who use every excuse at hand to arrest and imprison political opponents.

YOU are a threat to freedom.

Why not let the FBI arrest every environmentalist author every time an SUV dealership burns?
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #138
146. Now you're overreacting.
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:04 PM by AllieB
I'm talking about terrorism here-and fascism. It's a real stretch to indict me as a person who 'use every excuse at hand to arrest and imprison political opponents.' Give me a break. :eyes:

What about the 'pro-lifers' who target clinics with bombs and kill the doctors? they were often exhorted to do so by the talking haters on TV, radio and the internet. What should happen to them?
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #146
373. What about PETA?
A scientists house was firebombed a couple of weeks ago with the scientist, his wife and young child inside. Animal rights activists took credit for the firebombing. The Unabomber had Al Gore's book in his possession when he was arrested.

David
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #373
400. Then they should be prosecuted. However, so called 'pro-lifers' have taken many more innocent lives
with their terrorism than PETA. I think PETA are whacked.

It's very interesting how all you guys show up on the same threads to defend your buddies. Subtle as a sledgehammer...
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #400
402. I don't disagree with you.
Just giving some examples. Arson, for any reason, affects me and people I know and care about. Sorry that's not subtle.

David
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #402
405. My dad was a firefighter, so I totally agree with you.
:-)

The point that many were making in the thread, however, is the influence of RW propaganda. History has implicated propaganda in genocide and murder (Rwanda, Serbia, Nazi Germany, etc). Propagandists have been convicted as war criminals. The Knoxville shooter who shot up a liberal Unitarian church was a fan of Savage, Coulter, and Rush. They are accessories in these kind of heinous acts.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #405
409. They seem to have been influential.
As Al Gore seemed to be to the Unabomber. Accessory is a strong word, too strong in my opinion. The Knoxville shooter's wife began attending that church before she divorced the shooter, clearly there were many stressors that caused him to develop that kind of hatred and target that church. A good friend was one of the 4 men that tackled the shooter. I have spoken with him extensively, a little informal "Critical Incident Stress Management" of sorts.

David
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #409
524. So you're disagreeing with this..?

According to the News-Sentinel, Knoxville police department investigator Steve Still wrote in the search warrant that Jim David Adkisson, the man who was arrested in the rampage, went to the church "because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets."

Adkisson, who had served in the military, said "that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement he would then target those that had voted them in office," the search warrant states. Among the items seized from Adkisson's house were three books: "The O'Reilly Factor," by television commentator Bill O'Reilly; "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder," by radio personality Michael Savage; and "Let Freedom Ring," by political pundit Sean Hannity.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #524
530. How on earth could you possibly come to that conclusion?
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #373
511. You will find most people here think PETA are loons.
Granted they are our loons but I'd rather have them then psycho rednecks.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #138
157. Theres a big difference between advocating an opposite view - like
"We need to cut back on green house gasses or we're all buggered." and advocating a course of action that results in an SUV dealership being burned. The hatemonger facists are directly advocating murder, and selling it as a patriotic duty.

Um, how is that different again from the nazi and rwanda propaganda? Please do tell. Looks about the same to me.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #138
221. So if someone on the radio or TV told listeners "Stewie is a threat to America"
..."The best way to deal with Stewie and his/her beliefs is a baseball bat", etc and so on, day in and day out, you wouldn't feel the least bit motivated to have that person stopped?

And please don't give me "They don't know who I am" or other weak responses. It comes down to this: do you or don't you believe everyone in this country has the right to their opinion without having to fear becoming a target of violence?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #221
230. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jazzgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #138
269. My, my...you guys really are out in a group today.
n/t
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lifesbeautifulmagic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #138
311. what makes you think they don't?
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #138
347. too late, the DoJ is already doing this
They investigate and come after democrats and liberals, esp prior to election season. Admitted, investigated, and found guilty thereof is our Dept of "Justice". So, our govt is already doing what you suggest it should not do in order to protect freedom of speech/belief.

And no one said anything about hurting conservatives, unless you equate every hate mongering propagandist as necessarily being conservative?

it was simply suggested that hate speech sold as propaganda which incites people to hurt a group of people based only on their identification with that group is a crime. That has nothing to do with freedom of speech, it has to do with the right to life and believe what you choose without being prosecuted for it.

it is an incorrect assumption that freedom of speech supersedes all other rights.

For a right to life group, it's exceptionally arrogant and hypocritical that they believe their right to speak (hate and propaganda) overrides another person's right to life. So, now it is OK to call for the death of people who believe something they don't? And when in fact some "crazy", who conveniently got shot and now can't speak for himself, acts on their words, they feel no guilt? wow. arrogance and insanity personified.

that's the profile of a sociopath or a psychopath.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #138
512. Freedom (tm)
What exactly is Freedom? Define it.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #122
355. Sadly, the only "history" these christian homeschooler wackos
learn is the Old Testament....
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #93
152. Differences with the democrats is that the democrats call for giving the republicans fair trials
before executing them. republicans call for assasinating democrats and everybody else the dont like. If they give a trial they create a kangaroo court to try them and make sure they get convicted.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #93
173. Wow, this thread is really bringing out the freepers.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #173
323. AMAZING how they get all defensive of their own when shit like this happens, isn't it? n/t
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #173
338. I Guess They Think They are Slick
then again, dumb people are like children who pretend mommy can't see them when they cover their own eyes with their own hands.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #93
197. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #93
322. No, but a trial and conviction for incitement of violence would be nice. n/t
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pagandem4justice Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #93
337. Translation, for the reading comprehension impaired.
"Julius Streicher (sp?) was a Nazi propagandist tried and executed after WWII." <-- Separate sentence, historical example.

Sentence #2, current situation, not in direct reference to said Nazi:
"We have in the past held hatemongers accountable, and it's time that we did it in this country." <-- Note that because these ideas are joined by a conjunction (which I think should actually be a semicolon, but whatever), the pronoun "it" refers to the action taken in the first part of the sentence...i.e., "holding hatemongers accountable." Not execution.

Now, if you were to ask the next logical question, "hold them accountable how?" then you refer back to the previously-cited historical example, which involves trial, followed by execution...execution being the result of the trial.

In plain English, the poster did not "call for the execution of conservatives." She/he called for an accountability on the part of the hatemongers on par with the trial of a Nazi propagandist (the result of which was execution).


Gosh, I think this freeper has a higher post count than me, and I've been here since '04...Guess I need to talk more. :shrug:

:hi:
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #337
340. yes... please do
this place is crawling with them....


;-)
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
43. Propaganda works... n/t
Propaganda works...
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
55. the guy who shot up that church
Had Michael Weiner's book "Liberalism is a Mental Disease" plus Hannity's and I think O'Reilly's. He was an avid listener to RW radio and killed people because their liberal views. This case might be different but it is an attack on a political party's headquarters, so it wouldn't be a surprise if it was a hate crime. These radio hosts are always trying to amass their people for riots, like Limbaugh wanted to do at the Dem convention, etc. Some mentally ill guy could think it natural to go a step further. With a black man poised to be president, don't expect it to get any better.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
111. Do television ads make people buy crap they don't need or that is even detrimental to their own well
being?
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #111
155. Thats a great big YES Dude!!!
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
120. Here - examples of right-wing calls for violence against liberals:
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:01 PM by Hissyspit

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3790402
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #120
326. Isn't their lack of response to examples just incredible?
Erm. Sorry. Incredibly predictable is what I meant to say.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
121. You got any facts?
I guess you're as adept with "the google" as McCain.
Wake up and realize what a disease hate-radio is in this country.
Your defense of those calling for murder is...indefensable.
You need to ramp up your skills to post here.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
276. Have you already forgotten when that lady on Fox news
Said that she hoped that Obama and Osama were both killed?
And that is no low powered radio station, abut a major player in the MSM
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
316. Tell that to the people of Rwanda. n/t
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
349. Didn't you study what led to the RWANDAN GENOCIDE
a while back in your christian homeschool???????

Betcha you think the Abu Ghraib torturers were 100% responsible and their superiors were pure as the driven snow, huh?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
70. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #70
82. "Only if we ban all mosques"???
Are you saying that all mosques preach hate? Any evidence that can prove this you should be provided.

And while we're at it let's ban all Christian churches based on the Westboro Baptist church and the Phelps family.
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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #70
95. actually we DO know ..
the guy who shot up that church had Michael Weiner's book "Liberalism is a Mental Disease" plus Hannity's and I think O'Reilly's. He was an avid listener to RW radio and killed people because their liberal views. This case might be different but it is an attack on a political party's headquarters, so it wouldn't be a surprise if it was a hate crime. These radio hosts are always trying to amass their people for riots, like Limbaugh wanted to do at the Dem convention, etc. Some mentally ill guy could think it natural to go a step further. With a black man poised to be president, don't expect it to get any better.
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #70
187. I think you're on the wrong website. n/t
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #187
225. I don't think he is - he's making a good point - wait, maybe he IS on the wrong site
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #70
266. Get lost, you fucking asshole
I sense a pizza coming your way in the near future...
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Jazzgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #70
271. Mmmm....pizza is yummy. I like the one with all the fixins'.
Do you like pepperoni or sausage or just cheese?

You most certainly are in the wrong place.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
84. Rush limbaugh did this?
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keroro gunsou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #84
189. i don't think so
he's too busy being a pill-popping, little boy toucher... or so i've heard...
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
88. Got anything resembling a fact that applies to this case?
At this point we don't know what the score is.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
517. I think you're right.
I was once in the car and ran across a really hateful show on the radio. The host gave a lawyer's name and home address because he was advocating his listeners to hunt her down. Turned out it was Michael Weiner Savage, who MoveOn got removed from MSNBC, but he's still on the radio...
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. Breaking News: Shooting At State Democratic Party Headquarters
Source: Todayshv

Little Rock police are on the scene of a shooting on West Capitol Street at the state Democratic party headquarters. The Arkansas Democratic Party says the chairman, Bill Gwatney, is hospitalized after incident. At least three shots were fired after a man walked into the building during the noon hour.
The 1300 block West Capitol was shut down after the shooting, just blocks from the state capitol in downtown Little Rock.

Witnesses said one person was apparently seriously wounded and taken from the scene by ambulance.

Officers said they were pursuing a white man in his 40's that fled the scene in a truck. Little Rock police say officers are pursuing a suspect into Saline County off I-530, south of Little Rock.

Stay with Today's THV and todaysthv.com for more on this developing story.




Read more: http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=70759&catid=238
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. White man in 40s, truck
Reminds me of the guy that shot up the Unitarian Church in Knoxville a few weeks ago.

Is this a conspiracy?
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
68. A white man in a truck? That's enough for me.
Time to indict Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, and the rest of them.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #68
240. Long past time actually freeep. nt
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #68
358. You Better Catch their Last Shows Then...
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 05:57 PM by fascisthunter
how will you ever get your talking points....
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
213. Well, possibly.
Google "Phineas Priests".
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
531. OMG! A white man in a truck in Arkansas!
You just described my entire church softball team from 1999 and 2000.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
58. I am afraid there will be more
Not to be harsh, but as an out gay man in the south Alabama, Fla now NC. I know first hand what kind of hate is out there. When I lived in Fla I had occasion to hear rash limpd k spew about how nasty gay people are and libruls etc. I thought even way back then that it has to have some effect on the unstable righties and sooner or later this kind of stuff would be happening.
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. Stay strong, people.
nt
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. omfg.
:wtf:
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. Heres' the AP link
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEMOCRATIC_PARTY_SHOOTING?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. Chairman of State Dems is hospitalized in critical condition
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3789848
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. Bill Gwatney
Here he is on August 2nd, talking about opening an Obama campaign HQ in Little Rock:
http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2008/08/02/news/080308azbencodem.txt
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. Disturbing. I wonder if there's a connection between the nutjob and this...
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:11 PM by nc4bo
http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2008/08/02/news/080308azbencodem.txt

some of the comments there in your lnk are just crazy and racist as hell.



:scared: :scared: :scared:
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. OMG!
Homegrown terrorists...

Hope they are all ok.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
137. Terra? What the..?
We ain't got no terra-ists here. Only crim-nuls.

Terra-ists is them brown furriners!
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. ...haven't we all been expecting this since the church shooting?
or, since Limbaugh decided to tell his people to kill us?

DAMN!
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. No, but it's a good way ignore personal responsibility
Any voices convincing someone to harm another are in the attackers head only.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. You seem awfully anxious to defend RW hate radio.
I suppose Goebbels was scapegoated too. :shrug:
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:12 PM
Original message
I can sympathize with the previous poster though...
I don't want anybody censored regardless of political affiliation.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
61. If they're doing the equivalent of crying "fire" in a crowded theater,
they need to be removed from the broadcast spectrum immediately.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. Personally....
I've never heard of someone calling for violence on another, but I don't listen to much AM radio. I can see any efforts to censor getting out of control though in the interest of "security."
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #67
117. then you need to start listening to AM radio
God knows why, one of the local stations up here carries Rush Limbaugh in all his glory. Somebody in my workplace had it on all day until I filed a sexual harassment complaint (cause of all the homophobic crap) and had it shut down. In the meantime I had to listen to Rush babble away. In his "joking" way, he often recommends violence against all sorts of people, especially liberals and members of the Democratic party.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #67
132. What no scurrilous speculation as to why the chairman brought this upon himself?
But we do have a defense of rw hate media so way to keep your bonafides going.

Here's a short list of violent threats against liberals and Democrats

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3790402

You can then remove your head from the sand and put it back to it customary position.

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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #67
141. Nerer heard? Or never heard of?
Big difference.

If you've never heard of it, you haven't been paying attention.
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #67
210. Then tune into Michael Savage one day. I did and it made
me ill.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #67
362. You need to get out of your little cave more often.
RW hate radio hosts have been openly advocating violence against and even murder of liberals in general and some specific individuals for YEARS.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #61
417. especially when they monopolize our airwaves to do it
I don't even get Air America in my town, and it is one of the larger in my state.

But we sure do get our fill of Rush Limbaugh. My little ole neighbor
listens to his every word. And she is supposed to be a Christian.
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
77. Exactly
If right wing radio hosts are responsible for this, then Keanu Reeves needs to be arrested for Columbine.

I wonder about the mental stability of people who look to use every tragedy to arrest their political opponents.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #77
320. Go do a quick study on the genocide in Rwanda
and THEN post your tripe.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Then again, maybe you know exactly what you're doing on this board.

Things that make you go, "HHHhhhmmm."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #77
363. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #77
379. Keanu Reeves had a grudge against the kids of Columbine?
:shrug:
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
106. Who is talking about censoring? --answer: only you & your cohorts
There is a huge difference between people promoting conservative issues and those promoting hate and violence. When we speak of hate radio we mean hate speech, the kind that is not protected by law but is being given a blind eye to by those who are occupying the Dept of Justice.
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
241. A tag-team match
wvbygod distracts them, while you tie their shoelaces.

Do either of you fratboys have a genuine contribution?
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
360. You probably wouldn't have had any objection at all to the
anti-jewish propaganda spewed by the Nazis, or the murderous threats and instigation by the Rwandan hate radio, either.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
86. I blame the shooter period.
There is no excuse. RW hate radio has no influence of or notice by me.

And yes, I alway get anxious when someone defends a shooter who has only intent to harm another.
I live with it every day.
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John Kerry VonErich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
150. Sounds like people are jumping to conclusions
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:02 PM by John Kerry VonErich
We have yet to know the motive or who the shooter is.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #150
182. Jumping to conclusions before all of the facts are in is DU's favourite pastime.
Speaking as someone in Little Rock, the word I'm getting is that he was a disgruntled former employee, not a Rush-bot just following orders by assassinating Democrats..
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #29
159. You Can Figure Out Why CF
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:08 PM by Binka
It is pretty obvious.
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
169. wvbygod doesn't understand history obviously.
Julius Streicher was tried and executed for war crimes after WWII. He was a major propagandist. The influence of propaganda is well-documented throughout history as a step toward genocide, fascism, and murder. The propagandists should be held accountable for their actions.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #169
180. He was a poor, innocent scapegoat.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #169
215. Show how that history relates to this shooting please
Obviously you can't or you would not be making wrong assumptions about me.

I truly do enjoy the prattle of those that project their weakness upon me.
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #215
219. ...
1. Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never forget what these people stood for."

2. Senator Phil Gramm: "We're going to keep building the party until we're hunting Democrats with dogs."

3. Rep. James Hansen on Bill Clinton: Get rid of the guy. Impreach him, censure him, assassinate him."

4. John Derbyshire intimated in the National Review that because Chelsea Clinton had "the taint," she should "be killed."

5. Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too."

6. Ann Coulter: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building."

7. Bill O'Reilly: "ll those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains."
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #219
232. Thanks and all good information but......
I refuse to jump to any conclusion in this case without more evidence. I hope you are
not a DA or other law enforcement type tho....
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #232
245. No, and now that it seems that this was a workplace shooting
I'll withold my judgement until more details come out. We know for a fact, however, that the Knoxville church shooting was motivated by propaganda.
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. Exactly what kind of personal responsibility should the victim have taken here?
what personal responsibility are you talking about?
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #34
65. I think...
...they're referring to the fact that the shooter should be taking personal responsibility and not trying to get out of jail with the excuse that he was listening to too much talk radio.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
92. The shooter and HIS personal responsibility
Who the fuck did you think I meant? The victim? Get real.
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #92
104. I think your answer is out of line and disrespectful.
You could have ended it with the first part.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #104
216. Yes, I could and should have
It's just that when someone projects ill intent upon me I get excited. Survival instinct.
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #216
270. I'm assuming you're not implying I was projecting ill intent upon you.
I may have misunderstood your earlier post regarding personal responsibility, however, there was no ill intent in my post to you. If you feel that way about my post, well, that's for you to sort out.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #270
318. Thanks. No, not any ill intent here.
Just some others that tried to imply I was defending the RW gasbags. I may despise the RW
(and other) attempts to stir crap up with borderline people but after being locked up
by lying and other false charges, I despise jumping to conclusions with no facts at all.
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miles 2 go Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. Wrong! Those right wingnut radio hosts are always
encouraging their off balanced wingnut listeners to do violence. It's enough to make them think that they are doing whats best for them and the country because of the bullshit the host is spewing. If it was a liberal station doing the same, it would suddenly be illegal.

Of course we don't yet know what happened in this case, but we have seen this kind of thing again and again and it comes back as retaliation for abortion, gay, anti gun blah blah blah. THat's why so many people automatically jump to the conclusion that it was a fucktard wingnut at the trigger.

He asked to see the chairman rather than ask for someone by name after all.

The republicans are assholes that think killing is ok. If you happen to know of any real close by...tell them I said so.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
42. So you're defending hate radio AND advocating "personal responsibility"?
Things that make you go, "HHhhhmmmmm."
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #42
101. Grow up
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
108. that person is on ignore for a reason
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
48. There are no voices...
There are no voices on the A.M. radio shows attempting to convince people to harm others? :shrug:

Denial of that may only be in person's head, though...
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #48
123. Examples?
links?
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #123
136. "physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed too"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/jun/20/lopsided


Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus -- living fossils -- so we will never forget what these people stood for."

Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed too," and "I think a baseball bat is the most effective way these days,"


need more examples? There's plenty more to see if one open his eyes...
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #123
234. Here you go
this is a SMALL sampling

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3790402
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #234
384. thanks
I saved that page on StumbleUpon and Delicious.

I heard it could be added to Digg, too, but I haven't decided to get into that yet. Maybe later, thanks.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
378. Personal responsibility
So, then if a radio jock calls for YOUR ass to be targeted, that'd be okay with you. After all, that wouldn't increase the likelihood someone would try to kill you one iota, right?
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
49. I think about it every Tuesday when I stand at the peace vigil.
When people bring little children to stand with us I am always on the lookout. If one of Rush's nut cases comes a calling I want to be able to shield the little guys. Only in america can entertainers encourage carnage and get paid for it.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
131. I see it less as incitement than as validation
There are certain actions we all know are wrong -- but if someone we respect tells us they're okay, or makes them seem glamorous, we're more likely to do them. This ranges from trivial stuff like littering, through abuse of drugs and alcohol and tobacco, and up to hate crimes and murder.

It isn't clear how far to take the question of responsibility. Does John Hinckley's obsession with Taxi Driver mean that Martin Scorsese is responsible for Hinckley's attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan? Presumably not -- though I think it's playing with fire to create any powerful work of art which deals sympathetically with mass murder.

However, in the case of Limbaugh and his brethren, I believe they are very definitely responsible for creating a climate in which hatred of liberals and thoughts of violence against them are socially acceptable. It is that sort of breakdown of social norms that makes possible the situation you had in Nazi Germany -- where private violence against Jews long preceded official genocide. And if we do not act in some way now to make it clear that those things are *not* tolerated, we will all feel the consequences in the future.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #131
238. good thinking--and remember RWANDA
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM by librechik
http://www.idrc.ca/rwandagenocide/ev-108178-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. What the bloody hell is going on there? Heard the short breaking news blurb but
everything's sketchy.
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Janice325 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. Thanks for letting us know, EarlG.
So sad. :cry:
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. The shooter is dead and the victim in serious condition
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Dead how? Cops?
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:56 PM
Original message
Shooter is dead?
Link? I heard he was in custody with non-lifethreatening injuries.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. The AP story says that the suspect is in custody. nt
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. CNN just reported that they are working on air lifting suspect to a
local hospital. IF that's true, he's obviously not dead! Sometimes this rush to get the news out first is just plain aggrivating! You can never be sure what's really going on!
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
59. They said lately that they were trying to resuscitate him.
A reporter said a man fitting his description ran into a Baptist church and complained about losing his job. He then ran out the back and got into a blue truck.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. I wonder if we'll ever find out why he did this? n/t
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #28
134. A post in the comments section of the TV station,
Not very credible source, but they say it was rumored that the shooter was recently laid off at Gwatney Chevrolet. Gwatney owns 3 car dealerships.

Just a rumor so far.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #134
419. The layoff probably wasn't personal then--car sales are sucking these days--
--except for very fuel efficient cars.
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gblady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. too bad...
the shooter is dead...
could be we'll never know the why of it...
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. Absolutely horrific.
:cry:
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InNeedOfUserName Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. The chairman of the Arkansas Democratic Party was hospitalized in critical condition....
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - The chairman of the Arkansas Democratic Party was hospitalized in critical condition today, a party executive said. A television station reported that three shots were fired at party headquarters.

“There has been an incident at the party and chairman (Bill) Gwatney has been taken to the hospital,” said Bruce Sinclair, the director of the state Democratic Party.

Police said they apprehended a suspect....
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1112817
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
22. We need to know the shooter's sources of news/information
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
239. Is that a rhetorical question?
Because I think everyone on this site knows the answer to that already.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
25. My advice: all Dems go out and buy a hunting license. Then go buy a nice automatic 12 gauge shotgun
and a semi-automatic hunting rifle capable of bagging a deer or bear at a 100 yards. Then buy a .357 magnum pistol for shooting varmints. Buy plenty of ammo too because you're gonna need it if you want to learn to be an accurate shooter.

Learn gun safety, teach your kids gun safety and how to shoot. Keep your guns well maintained, locked up, but easily accessible.

We're all Americans here. We have a right to own firearms. There's a reason for this.

You never know when you might be so poor you might need to bag a doe to feed your family.

Just sayin'.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. So your solution is to buy bigger, better guns?
No thanks, that's what BushCo does.
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CrazyDude Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
74. I believe all political figures should be armed, hell I believe everybody should be armed n/t
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #74
85. Everyone? Are you sure about that?
Felons?

Drunks?

People with severe mental problems?

Do you think Dick Cheney should have a gun?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #85
342. anyone believing everyone should be carrying IS Mentally Ill
or all of the above.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #342
554. Or maybe just a troll
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=224544
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sharp_stick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #74
190. Ooooh big surprise there n/t
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nomaco-10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #190
296. If this poster is not from....
"that other website", then maybe they should be.

If the shoe fits...or in this case, the username and post content....

Worth watching, that's all.
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kwolf68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
45. What the hell does a hunting license have to do with this?
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:12 PM by kwolf68
You can have a gun to protect yourself without foraging through the woods looking for unsuspecting/unarmed victims. The real quarry for me is the assholes who want to shoot me for being a Democrat.

Look at me, I don't hunt, but I own guns and can use em too. Yeppers.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #45
201. Another gun-owning nonhunter here. Only ~1 in 5 gun owners hunts.
And a deer rifle is really too powerful for defensive purposes. Small-caliber carbines (particularly .223) and shotguns are a better choice, IMO, though handguns are certainly more portable.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
231. Yours is one of the reasons I'm currently
looking into getting a shotgun. If they're going to take me down, I'm going fighting.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. You'll want to be able to nail a deer at at least 250 yards.
That's only half the distance on a decent par four golf hole.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
53. The day I give in to fear...
No thanks. The day I give in to fear is the day the terrorists, the extremists and the nuts have won. That day is not here.

"Just sayin'..."
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
54. Where are you going to get an automatic shotgun?
:shrug:
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #54
83. I assume he meant semi-automatic or "autoloader"
The term "autoloader" is widely used by the manufacturers themselves to describe semi-automatic shotguns, and a lot of people switch "autoloader" with "automatic".

E.g. "Pull the trigger and it shoots, without any of that stupid pumping stuff to slow you down". I have a Mossberg 930 with a Choate 8 shell extension (nine shots if you keep one chambered). In a pinch, I can put nine slugs into a target in just under four seconds. My shoulder will need medical attention afterwards though.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:01 PM
Original message
They do make them,
but they presumably illegal for civilian ownership. The AA-12 is a low-recoil, full-auto 12-gauge with both standard and drum magazines available.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zlWplfLQ2E
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
149. Well aware and would love to have one...
but getting my class III license isn't likely.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #149
153. I can't think of a single good reson to have one,
but I still want one! :evilgrin:
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #149
546. You'd have to be an SOT; mere peons can't own one even with a Form 4...
as they are post-'86s and therefore police/military/government use only.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #54
330. My granddaddy bought me a 12ga. double barrel when I was 12 (in '59). My dad had a 12 ga. automatic.
It was a bird and rabbit gun. We called them automatics back then (even though they were really semi-automatics), and that's what my hunter friends call them to this day.

As Xithras explains a few posts down, it simply means you don't have to pump or re-cock a hammer to fire the next round. I have never even heard the term "autoloader", but then I gave up hunting a lot of years back.

As far as a deer rifle goes, around here a 100-yard shot is a LONG shot. This ain't the Great Plains so you don't need a scope even, unless you want to be a show off--, or you don't know how to apply "Kentucky windage", or your eyesight is failing.

"Get a hunting license" was my weak attempt at humor, but taking a gun safety course and exercising due diligence for storing and controlling weapons was meant as a serious suggestion for anyone who is not already properly trained about guns.

I have some friends who are Democrats who own guns, but not that many own them. And I have a lot of friends who are Democrats. I must say that most of my friends who are Republicans own guns, whether or not they are hunters.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
76. Do you need the hunting license in
order to get the shotgun? My understanding of that was that you didn't. But I love that you brought up gun safety. I'm one of those evil liberals who has no hatred of guns.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #76
204. No. Most gun owners don't obtain hunting licenses because they don't hunt.
You do have to pass a Federal point-of-sale background check, fill out Federal paperwork on the transaction, and your state may have additional requirements. (Gun-owning nonhunter here, FWIW.)

Do you live in NYC, though? If so, you pretty much have to have a lawyer to walk you through the process, or have LOTS of time, money, and patience. Outside of NYC, the state of NY's purchase requirements are not particularly onerous, although there are some silly rules on rifle stock shape and such, IIRC.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #204
226. I realized that handgun owners don't
necessarily hunt but hadn't heard about a hunting license for a shotgun. I do not live in the city (about 15 miles north) and have already looked into getting a shotgun (for various reasons). I appreciate your reply.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
127. Funny you mention that. My son who wasn't particularly keen on it
is taking the class in Hunter's Saftey at the Sportsman's club as I type; for just that very reason. I told my son you never know how bad things can get and he might have to know how to feed himself. Damn bunch of republicans don't have a clue they're passing knowledge onto a staunch future Dem.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
130. What makes you think we're all unarmed?
I have 2 pickup trucks, a hunting dog & 3 tractors too, if you want to complete the stereotype.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #130
237. Shhhhh
Let em think that we're all unarmed. It only helps us.
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
251. Like we aren't armed already?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
32. the right wing radio heads are the most dangerous
people in america today. after listening to that levin guy out of new york it`s pretty clear people like him are going to start pushing people over the edge.

i hope this is`t the case in this shooting
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Killers as victims of radio host trash talk?
Would you accept that as a defense of someone that harmed another?
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SleeplessinSoCal Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #37
51. Not a defense, but an explanation.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #37
57. Rwanda.
http://www.idrc.ca/rwandagenocide/ev-108178-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html

Way too much information for me to decide what's important to quote, but if you give the link even a cursory reading, you'll get the point quite clearly.
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miles 2 go Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
62. No one is saying it as a defense. Asshole telling asshole to do
something and asshole does it, does not excuse asshole.
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #32
66. Rush Limbaugh is live talking about John Edwards right now.
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:38 PM by Kire
I guess nobody has written any talking points yet.

EDIT: Georgia and a big jail being built in Denver are apparently more important than a possible political assassination attempt in Arkansas right now.
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #66
525. Was Rush deliberately trying to change the subject away from the shooting yesterday?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=169198&mesg_id=169198

You decide.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
33. Thanks to hate radio, mission accomplished!...
:sarcasm:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
38. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
39. Honestly, hate crimes occur if you demonize a group of people all the time
as the Right does with Democrats. Like the guy in the church, he was practically brainwashed to hate liberals. Obviously others have touched on this in this thread as well, I agree.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #39
52. and yet another church (Baptist church this time) visit by a nutjob.
CNN not saying if the Dem shooting is connected to it or not.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. The Baptist church gun guy stated he lost his job before leaving...
...They're saying the description of the Baptist church guy and his vehicle matches the Dem HQ shooter.:shrug:
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:26 PM
Original message
Makes one wonder : exactly WHICH part of ' Thou Shalt Not Kill ' do these loonies NOT GET?
:mad:
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CrazyDude Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
79. Agreed, but I don't think the motive here has been shown
Nor do I believe hateful speech that merely provides motivation to commit hate crimes, like Lou Dobbs, but does not actually incite violence should be banned. If we go down that road, the 1st Amendment has gone to shit.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:10 PM
Original message
right, I'm just saying if this was one it wouldn't surprise me
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
80. I was on vacation when that happened and
don't know any details. Could you give me a short synopsis if you have a second. Thanks.
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #39
279. I have a suspicion...
that if what's being discussed down thread turns out to be true, your demonizing argument is going to be used to hammer the left. (And maybe DU in particular.)



By the way...
" I can't wait to get on the ice this year; I want to be the Mick Foley of Alberta Curling"- enigmatic

:rofl:
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:28 PM
Original message
Yes, but understand I am not saying they advocate or ordered
anybody to shoot a Dem or anything. I'm just saying if you constantly demonize a group of people there will be mentally ill people who buy into it enough to do something bad. Same with people who are GLBT or of a different race. Xenophobia will lead to sick people committing awful acts.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
47.  Bill Gwatney
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SleeplessinSoCal Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
50. Somebody please lay this at the feet of Coulter, Savage, Limbaugh et al.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. Send them the blood soaked clothing and lay it on their desks.
This is crazy NOW and think we've still got a long ways to go.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. They've tried to lay the blame for the job loss at the feet of the Dems.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #63
142. I read a rumor in the comments section of the TV station there.
They said the rumor was, the shooter was recently laid off at Gwatney Chevrolet. I guess Bill Gwatney owns 3 car dealerships.

Just a rumor so far.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #142
176. That makes sense because he stated that he'd lost his job.
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #50
69. Yes, by all means blame anyone other than the shooter
Just like the brothers and sister of the jealous ex husband that died trying to kill
his ex-wife, family and her fiance blame her. Yeah, all these victims that go off trying
to kill people because "someone made them do it".

Is that anything like blaming the scantily clad rape victim?
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. No, it's not
I urge you to learn about what went down in Rwanda. What happened there is exactly what you're saying shouldn't be blamed.

It could happen here as easily.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #69
89. You are a very confused person...
Rush, Hannity and Coulter were not raped in this story.
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miles 2 go Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #69
90. You don't comprehend what you read very well do you?
Maybe if you just go listen to Rush.....
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #90
116. Have you stopped beating your dog?
I'll wait for the facts before spouting off and blaming anyone other than the shooter.

As for comprehending things...any text, machine, theory, science, survival etc I will
be happy to compete against anyone who attacks me with a "You don't...do you?" cop out.
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miles 2 go Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #116
143. Stopped beating my dog? Damn. I haven't even started yet and boy
does he deserve it. You should see the trash that he got into. He humps the other dog and is getting old enough that he thinks peeing on the carpet is ok now. Stop beating him? Ha!
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #69
94. There is a difference
Between making someone do something and influencing someone to do something. People can be influenced by others, it's been going on for centuries, the church was great at it especially during the Crusades.
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asksam Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #50
246. How about Michelle Malkin?
She admitted it on her blog that she's the shooter.

"I shot the Arkansas Democrat Party Chairman" she said.

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/08/13/i-shot-the-arkansas-democrat-party-chairman/
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Dollface Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #246
539. She's just trying to gain acceptance by the reich-wing. Doesn't she realize she isn't white
enough for them to ever really accept her as one of their own? Poor deluded girl. Selling her soul for a one-night stand.
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carlyhippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
64. this election year, I have a bad feeling
I hope this isn't going to be some kind of trend. I don't know why people have to be stupid and do stuff like this, it's sickening. The human race is quickly turning back to animal status.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. Turning back?
I wasn't aware we'd left. Seriously.
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carlyhippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. good point..
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:27 PM by carlyhippy
I insulted the poor animal kingdom by comparing humans to them.
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hamsterjill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #64
172. Bad feeling seconded
I have bad feelings, too. It brings back memories of John, Martin & Bobby. And I hope that Obama has thought about this and has the best security possible - plus some extra. I hope he takes every precaution possible. Frankly it scares me when I see him in such close proximity to the humongous crowds.

There are sickos out there who would try to kill him for their own reasons, and there are also sickos out there who would try to kill him to have the world believe the Clintons were behind it.

We live in a world gone crazy.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #172
188. Step away from the computer, people, and breathe.
There is no evidence that this has anything to do with politics.
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Sheets of Easter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #188
253. THANK YOU!!!!!

:applause:

It's sad that of the 200+ posts in this thread, only a few people have addressed this fact. It's just too soon to tell. All this speculation looks foolish.
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hamsterjill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #188
290. Just expressing a concern.
And I'm breathing just fine, thank you.

Are you breathing okay there?
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
81. Oh Good God... but why? WHY?
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM by ailsagirl
:mad: :cry:

Sounds pretty bad...
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
87. Time we start shooting back!
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #87
145. Only after you rub that bears belly.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
96. A nut job who took Limpball's advice?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
97. Right Wing Terrorism: Hate Radio and Fox News are the Fuel
they are cracking because they know their hay-day is just about to come to an end.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
98. Sounds like they're becoming very fearful of a November D victory.
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 01:34 PM by flvegan
Horrible way to deal with it. I wish Mr. Gwatney a speedy recovery.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. yes indeed
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
103. My god they are going to kill us all
:cry:
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #103
244. Don't cry about it
Do something to protect yourself if you're really afraid. No reason not to go down fighting or actually even win.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #244
252. It's a pretty famous line from the JFK assassination (Connally said it)
And I have a gun, kthanks.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #252
259. Sorry - unaware of the reference
And frankly, I prefer the wingers actually believing we're all unarmed.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #259
277. No worries
And re-reading my response, I didn't mean it to come off snarky like that, so my apologies as well. Good point about them thinking we are unarmed though :D
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
109. My God...
can you imagine what this country would be like if liberals took up arms and just started shooting people when we get outraged? Especially considering the direction we've been headed over the past 30 years?

*sigh*
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HerbieHeadhunter Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
115. I am hearing terrible news...
from people speaking to employees of the state party that Bill Gwatney passed away. I pray that the news is incorrect, but I fear that it is not.
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #115
119. Oh no
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #115
206. Not confirmed. 51-year-old shooter is dead.
http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=70759&catid=238
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HerbieHeadhunter Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #206
294. Unfortunately, it is confirmed...
it happened earlier, they were waiting to inform his family before announcing that he had passed.

Just terrible...
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
128. And if the shooter was a PUMA inspired Hillbot, then what? /nt
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #128
133. Then he was a criminal
No more, no less. No matter what set the shooter off, he is a criminal. Or was a criminal if he is indeed dead.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #133
165. Yes, I understand that

The point was about banning speech because of the entirely fact-free assumption this had something to do with nutjob radio.
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MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
129. Wonder what this means?
Found this comment:

"Praying for all involved. Mr. Gwatney just did a good deed for us and Pray it has nothing to do with this kicking this candidate out of the upcoming election."

Here: http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=70759&catid=238

:wtf:
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #129
140. Rumor also had it that he lost his job
from one of Gwatney's dealerships. But hey, let's continue to speculate that is was a rabid rightwing talk radio junkie.

This sort of speculation and emotional vomiting just makes us look like idiots.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #140
147. then why not shoot him at the dealership?
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #147
154. Uh, because he wasn't *there*?
:eyes:
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #154
387. Why wasn't he there?
Exactly. Point made.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #387
388. Because he was elsewhere?
I had this conversation in college once.
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #388
394. But where was elsewhere and why wasn't elsewhere there instead of elsewhere?
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 07:48 PM by Zevon fan
*edit... I just realized what an asshole I am and how inappropriate this probably is.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #140
148. It also says Bill Gwatney didn't make it... he's dead.
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:03 PM by btmlndfrmr
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #148
250. What???
Please provide proof of this statement.
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #250
301. here
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/13/arkansas.shooting/index.html
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #140
156. Mob mentality is a scary thing....
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 03:34 PM by WriteDown
Regardless of who are what its directed toward.

edited for one letter.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #140
158. well lots of people lose their jobs and it is a devastating situation to be in
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:07 PM by nc4bo
but they don't go shooting up churches and political party offices because of it.

Why a Democratic Party Office anyway??

Using the broad brush here: Since when did the Dem Party become known as the party that looses jobs?

I hope the police find out why he did this. I just don't understand this at all.

God help us.
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #158
161. Gwatney is also a businessman
He owns 3 Chevy dealerships in the area. Chances are the shooter's rage was directed at the businessman rather than the party chariman.

But it's all speculation just now.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #161
164. k, thanks - it's making some sense now. nt
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #158
256. It became known as the party that loese jobs since
EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THE HATE RADIO STARS decided to feed it to every one of their moronic listeners.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #140
163. part and parcel of why message boards exist.
"This sort of speculation" is part and parcel of why message boards exist.

I'm sure you've never speculated on anything prior to having complete, full, and absolute knowledge of the How's, When's, Why's, Who's, and What's, but the rest of us are merely mortal...
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #163
167. Oh I've speculated
Just not to the point of calling for people's heads prior to knowing fact one about a given situation.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #167
170. rather inconsequential as it carries no legal authority...
"Calling for people's heads" is rather inconsequential as it carries no legal authority...
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #170
175. I never said it did
What I said was it makes us look collectively stupid if it comes out that this has nothing whatsoever to do with the shooter's politics. Which is looking very likely at this point.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #175
184. Really? Then why wasn't his employer the target?
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #184
186. I answered your qestion down there n/t
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #175
193. Nah, just everyone above post 133
look collectively stupid :rofl:

:evilgrin:
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #193
207. Thank god I'm below the line
:toast:
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #175
267. Mere speculation...
Mere speculation does not make a person or people look stupid-- regarldess of how this turns out. Idle speculation is part and parcel of a message board. Jesus... :eyes:
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MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #129
151. Answered my own question, I think
"Candidate barred over scandal" http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/231825/
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #129
168. It wouldn't be Dobbins
Dobbins is black. Gunman is white.
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MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #168
181. Thx
:hi:
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
160. A disciple of Sean Hannity & Rush Limbaugh
This is shit.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #160
171. you have evidence to back that up?
Otherwise, you're just making this place look foolish
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #171
177. Evidence?
We don't need no stinkin evidence!

:sarcasm:
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #171
179. Thank you
All accounts seem to point at an angry ex-employee, yet all we have here are nuts discussing how to use this to quash dissenting opinions. Doesn't exactly do much to quiet all those conservative conspiracy theories about the Fairness Doctrine.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #179
183. So tell me, if he didn't think democrats were responsible for his job loss
why didn't he take it out on his employer? IMO, that would be the logical target.
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #183
185. One more time
It was very likely that Gwatney WAS his employer. He owned 3 Chevy dealerships in the area.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #185
336. Police have confirmed, he was not employed by Gwatney
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3791504

So how you like me now?
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #183
198. Did you actually read any of the posts in this thread?
It appears that he did go after his employer.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #198
212. I stopped after awhile, then came back and was reading backward
up the thread. I'm so sorry that I inconvenienced you by asking the question.
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #183
203. If it's true
Which is still an "if" the shooter was employed by Mr. Gwatney. Witnesses outside HQ say he was screaming about losing his job. Witnesses inside say he asked to meet with Gwatney. Gwatney was told this man was waiting to meet with him. Gwatney said he did not want to speak with him. The shooter forced his way inside and shot him.

The same thing happened at our local school several years ago. An employee was passed over for a job, showed up at the admin building asking to speak with the superintendent. Superintendent told the secretary he didn't want to speak with him. Forced his way inside and shot him.

But don't let that stop the paranoia-fest on here that claims the shooter was brainwashed by radio stations and this is out chance to have people with different political opinions locked away.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #179
542. too bad right wingers and conservatives have such a bad track record
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hasssan1 Donating Member (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
191. FUCKING REPUBLICANS AND RW , THEY ARE NAZI PARTY
Man this shit is getting really crazy. with that ass hole who shot people in church and this. Right wingers and many conservative republicans love to pick up their guns and start killing people who don't agree with them. That's why i always say GOP = NAZI PARTY.


This shit really makes me mad. FUCK REPUBLICANS they are destroying this country
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Danieljay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #191
194. we have no idea yet who this guy is. Lets reserve judgement until we get the facts. n/t
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
192. Is this another terrorist attack from the conservative right?
:shrug:
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #192
196. Read the thread...
jeez...why do people sit on an Internet message board then fail to read what they are looking at :rofl:
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #196
211. I have and found nothing but supposition. Anything more concrete yet?
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #192
220. If so, why would he have threatened employees at the Arkansas State Baptist Convention?
Not exactly a hotbed of leftist radicalism, there.
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #220
233. Maybe he's a Neocon. The old conservatives are the new liberals to them.
Maybe they refused to recognize the divine nature of George Bush? Who knows with those totalitarian nutz? Just in case. :sarcasm:
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #233
284. Or a Freemason
There's no telling what those guys could do.
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BreweryYardRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
195. Let's wait for more details.
We need to see if this is an ex-employee who went nuts, a RW fuckhead who went nuts, or both.

We've got conflicting reports on the shooter's condition -- if he's alive, let's wait and see if he makes any statements.
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angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
200. CNN just reported the suspect has died...
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #200
208. Damn it! n/t
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
202. CNN now reporting shooter is dead n/t
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
209. Presser scheduled for 3p CDT.
Shooter, 51, is dead.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
214. Police now say Gwatney SHOOTER has died.
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 02:51 PM by muddleofpudd
http://arkansasbusiness.com/article.aspx?lID=64&sID=65&ms=83&cID=ZZZ&aID=107276.51272.119402

edited to correct.

No word yet on Gwatney's condition.
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #214
217. Suspect has died
No final word yet on Mr. Gwatney
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:16 PM
Original message
So now we will never know why
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
242. Maybe he left a note or told someone, or something
I hope we do get an answer.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #242
345. Maybe he's got Hannity & Coulter books in his pickup.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #345
367. Nothing would surprise me at this point
:argh:
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Sheets of Easter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
218. Here's hoping he can make a recovery.
It's too soon to get all the facts yet, so I'm refraining from drawing any conclusions. I think it's fair that others refrain from it as well.

:(
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
224. 3p presser didn't reveal much more than what we already know.
The suspect did take a few shots at the police near the end of the chase. Maybe a case of suicide by cop? Possibly.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #224
228. You mean the cops were Dems, too?
:sarcasm:
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penndragon69 Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
227. Just the start
of the wingnut, white power reign of terror.

Save America, vote Obama!!
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jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
249. Unfortunately, it will continue...
The good news is that we are going to make big gains in the election this year everyone. The bad news is that the reactionary forces are now out of options and will "react". Often they will react with violence.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #249
263. There's no evidence that this had anything to do with politics. (n/t)
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Sheets of Easter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
257. As of 4:40 PM EST, there is no evidence that this shooting was motivated by politics.
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 03:41 PM by King Sandbox
None. I may be incorrect when the facts start rolling in, but for now, there is no proof.


I'm amazed at the amount of people that are jumping to conclusions about this case.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #257
261. That happens on most any of these types of threads- and it's not just about politics
People jump to conclusions of guilt when the facts aren't in- or attribute behavior to meth or whatever concern is.

It's more the nature of the beast than it is any sort of wishful thinking.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #257
262. The fact that it was in a political office leads one to think it may be political
Other than that you're right, there is no specific proof one way or another.
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Sheets of Easter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #262
265. That's about it. It could be political,
it could be a personal vendetta with a party worker, or just a random snap. Now that the shooter is dead, we'll have to wait and see.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #265
306. If it was a stranger who had a random snap, then politics would likely play a factor
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 04:33 PM by brentspeak
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #257
273. After the UU shooting last week
After the UU shooting last week, I think that a little bit of speculation and/or conclusion jumping is just a good, old-fahsioned visceral catharsis for a lot of us.

And as this isn't a newspaper or a court of law and our speculations have zero consequence, it seems rather... benign (at worst) to me. :shrug:
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Sheets of Easter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #273
274. It's just lame, for a lack of a better term.
And it's just my 1/50 of a dollar, for that matter.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #274
275.  I imagine...
"It's just lame, for a lack of a better term."

I imagine some people might perceive it that way...
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #273
282. I understand that some people come here, safely anonymous, and post
the most bat-guano crazy, outrageous things, that the posters themselves may not really believe, because it pleases them to do so.

But, if some of the posters above are to be believed, that people's thoughts can be influenced by the likes of Rush, Hannity, ad nauseum, couldn't it be argued that people's thoughts could be influenced by some of the outrageous comments posted here?

"Wow, after reading the visceral comments, I guess (name the talk-show host here) really did order the chairman of the Arkansas Democratic Party shot."
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #282
429. I think the target demographics are completely different
"couldn't it be argued that people's thoughts could be influenced b..."


I think the target demographics are completely different. One group logs in to look for information, another group turns in to hear their propaganda validated. Additionally, I think Earl, Skinner, et.al immediatley banish any "let's go kill them" threads that may pop up on the rare occasion.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #257
285. Well, by the very nature of going into a political office
then the shooting has to do with politics. However, "motivated" by politics is not yet known. The choice of offices does seem to indicate a political nature.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #285
291. Not necessarily. Maybe at first blush, but the analysis doesn't stop there.
If he was a disgruntled ex-employee, as has been suggested, the fact that the victim was shot at party headquarters could have been pure coincidence, i.e., that where the victim was to be found, as opposed to his work office.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #257
321. The LRPD confirmed that the shooter didn't know Gwatney beforehand...
...sounds like he was killed because he happened to be in the wrong Party at the wrong time.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
260. People get sicker everyday, it seems. n/t
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
264. Bummer. I hope Mr. Gwatney makes a prompt and complete recovery.
:kick:
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
278. Suspect is probably on FR
Bragging about it right now. :argh:
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #278
280. Did you just now come out of a coma, or can you not read?
The shooter is dead. Shot by police.

Snark works best when you can't get out-snarked.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
281. Prayers and light to him. What a terrible , terrible thing.! I hope he recovers quickly and
they get the monster who did this ! It seems no one is safe in this divided nation and the nutcases are having a heyday. Damn it.No one in any kind of public life seems "safe".
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #281
289. Looks like he has died
Arkansas Democratic leader dies after shooting: Clintons 6 minutes ago



WASHINGTON (AFP) - The chairman of the Democratic Party of Arkansas was shot and killed Wednesday by a gunman who opened fire at the party's state headquarters, according to ex-president Bill Clinton and his wife Hillary Clinton.


"We are deeply saddened by the news that Bill Gwatney has passed away," the Clintons, who lived for years in the Arkansas capital of Little Rock while Bill Clinton was governor, said in a joint statement.


more; http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080813/ts_alt_afp/usvotecrimearkansasshootingdeath_080813210425

:cry:
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
286. Scared level= 0
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
287. He's dead
CNN.Com banner
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #287
288. Crap
:argh:
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
293. Wounded suspect in Arkansas shooting dies after chase
Wounded suspect in Arkansas shooting dies after chase
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. -- Police said a man suspected of bursting into the Arkansas Democratic Party headquarters and shooting the party chairman has died.

Police said the suspect burst into the office of Party Chairman Bill Gwatney and fired three shots. Gwatney is hospitalized in critical condition.


more: http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=217209
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
295. I guess the country thieves are saving the anthrax for bigger fish. nt
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Hyper_Eye Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
298. The Clintons confirm he has died
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/13/arkansas.shooting/index.html
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DogPoundPup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
299. Sadly ... He has died
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080813/ts_alt_afp/usvotecrimearkansasshootingdeath
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
300. More about state Sen. Gwatney
Gwatney owns three car dealerships in Pulaski County. He served 10 years in the state Senate. In addition to being state Democratic Party chairman, Gwatney is also CEO of Gwatney Chevrolet in Jacksonville. He has a background in banking, having been an executive vice president with First National Bank in Jacksonville, formerly owned by his family. Gwatney entered the state Senate in 1993 at age 33. Term limits ended his career in the state Legislature in 2003. During his last legislative session, he led efforts to reform state ethics rules, handle legislative redistricting and promote economic development. Gwatney is a superdelegate to this month's Democratic National Convention in Denver. The Gwatneys have two daughters.


http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=70759&catid=238
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MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
302. Not a former Gwatney employee
just said on press conference the shooter was not a former Gwatney employee.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
303. LRPD just announced that shooter was NOT a former Gwatney Chevrolet employee.
Hmmmm.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #303
305. He died, just announced on MSNBC
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
307. Another outlet's version.
http://arkansasbusiness.com/article.aspx?lID=64&sID=65&ms=83&cID=ZZZ&aID=107276.22984.119402
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #307
314. I wish they'd name the scuzzball who murdered Gwatney already
I understand notifying the bastard's relatives and so forth, but this is ridiculous. We KNOW the name of the man he murdered in cold blood.
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vinylsolution Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
308. Ain't it strange how...
... these crazed 'lone gunmen' never, ever, target Republicans?



RIP, Bill.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #308
310. Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but
a gunman would be hard-pressed to find any Republicans, at least in an official capacity, in this part of Arkansas.

The state GOP is virtually non-existent here.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #310
324. My condolences to you and to all Arkansas DUers...
What a senseless tragedy...:cry:
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
309. The Manchurian Candidate. Psy-Ops killers will go after Super Delegates
instead of high school kids.
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
315. OBVIOULSLY, ONE OF THOSE PERSONS WHO IS MORALLY SUPERIOR TO SECULAR
DEMOCRATS.
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syberlion Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
317. Someone leaving the scene in a pick-up in Arkansas, how original
With all the back and forth about RW radio, hate radio, personal responsibility, etc.; what is at issue is access to alternative viewpoints in broadcast media. Since there is a narrow band of owners, there is a narrow band of viewpoints.

The Fear and Smear radio is exactly that, Fear of the majority and Smearing of their brand of thought across America. As long as there is a lock-out of all other voices, we cannot even begin to educate those out there hearing only one side. When I've listened to these acid-tongued, fearful, petulant, emotionally stunted, talentless hacks, I hear in their voice their fear, their hate. Isn't it funny how we don't really know their background, what happened in their lives to cause such anti-social behavior.

One thing I do when I listen is remember the psychology of projection. When someone says something about you, look closely and you will see they are projecting their own faults onto you. Makes it VERY interesting when you do that as you listen...

As to the discussion about personal responsibility in this thread, the person shooting is responsible for their own actions, period. What was in that person's environment, reading material, radio, tv, and people does contribute. There are studies showing exposure of violence to young children, through tv and video games, did increase violent behavior from those same children. The tv and games didn't tell little Johnny to punch his class mate, however he mirrored the behavior because it was an accepted part of his environment.

So, you can argue the chicken and the egg all day long. If you remove the egg, then you have a greater chance of eliminating the violence.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
328. The Republicans have declared war on us n/t
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #328
332. No, the ruling class has. Again. nt
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #332
346. The Ruling Class Uses Rush and Friends to Brainwash Idiot Right Wingers
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 05:58 PM by fascisthunter
to do their bullying for them.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #346
403. The ruling class has Faux News and........
Right wing preachers to assist Rush Slimebaugh in their war against humanity.
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #403
536. Tellin' the truth there.
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
334. He didn't make it.
CNN just announced that he died. :cry:
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #334
343. I'm horrified.
I can't even think right now.
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #343
392. Me, too.
Such waste for no reason. So sad. What can we do so that he will not have died in vain? :hug:
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #392
555. maybe we could start by not attacking each other
did I see a reference to a PUMA up thread? Jeez.
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mikeargo Donating Member (279 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #334
375. Damn it
This is so sad. My condolences to his family.
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #375
393. Heartbreaking.
He was loved.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #334
397. oh wow
:cry:
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #397
413. ...
:cry: :hug:
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NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
335. My disgust with the right wing grows DAILY...
and DAILY I nearly convince myself that I'm out of outrage and can't be disappointed or disgusted any more.

Such a fool am I.

I hope bad things happen to those who filled his head with that hate.
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
344. A terrible day.
Wasted lives, needless pain, sorrow and anger.

And the worst is yet to be known: What made this happen.

:cry: :grr:
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nomaco-10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
351. Right Wing HATERS like hannity and o'reilly have started...
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 05:50 PM by nomaco-10
this trend. They have complicity in this death and the tragic deaths and injuries in the Knoxville shootings at the church as well. These are two incidents that are just in recent headlines and are just the tip of the iceberg.

The right wing loonies in this country have been armed and dangerous for decades. They have made sure gun laws either go unchallenged by unpopularity during their reign or pass during their majority years in congress and have made sure that arms and ammunition can be bought at WallyWorld at discount prices.

People, we are fucked til we can get some real numbers in the house and senate that can challenge these nutwads.



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Willo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
352. I find the whole story odd.
Maybe it's the way it unfolded or the way it's been reported, but something seems off.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
354. so sad
I am so sad for this country, his family...

How many does that make in the past 10 days? we had a few right wing fundies arrested for plans to murder a dem...this guy...the right is making the fatal error all Regimes make. They are creating martyrs.

This kind of thing WILL mobilize people.

It always does, throughout history. Bad, bad move.

And for the record, I most certainly do hold people who call for the deaths of others on national TV accountable. I can assure you, most people (with a brain) in the "news/entertainment" business (tv/radio) think very carefully before saying anything even remotely like that. They know the power of their celebrity -- particularly in this country at this time. They are an extremely persuasive and powerful crowd and they are aware of that. If they are not thoughtful and careful for legal reasons, what about morals and ethics?

Is that too fu*king old fashioned to bring up? Come on. If I said what some of these Propagandists said on national TV and then a crazy went out and acted on what I said, I would never forgive myself. I'd feel that way even if I were in a fictional piece, and so would most non-psychotic people. It's called compassion.

Over and out.
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LonelyLRLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
356. From Little Rock - more details
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 06:09 PM by LonelyLRLiberal
The shooter showed up at the Arkansas State Baptist Convention office near the Democratic Party HQ downtown close to the time of the shooting. He said something about having just lost his job and pointed his gun at someone, but did not shoot.

There is no known connection with Gwatney, who owns car dealerships and also has some banking interests. Gwatney was 49 and leaves a wife and two daughters. His position as Dem Party Chair was an unpaid, but powerful, position in Arkansas politics. He was expected to run for governor in the future (Mike Beebe (D) was just elected governor in 2006, and I believe Gwatney was his fund-raising chair). Gwatney had served as a State Senator.

I have not heard the shooter's name yet. They just said he was 51 years old.

It is unclear if there is any political motivation for the shooting, the only obvious possibility being that the man blamed either Gwatney or the Democratic Party for his job loss. The Republican Party evacuated their HQ, which is near the Dem HQ, as a precautionary measure. Posters on local television websites are also assuming there is a political connection - some right-wing wacko gone beserk - but that's just a (natural) reaction to a shooting at a political party HQ. We'll see.

Here's a link to some local coverage: http://www.todaysthv.com/

Here's a poignant note from one of the local 6 p.m. newscasts: a wreath has been placed on the door of the Dem HQ by a man who said he was hired by Gwatney (I believe at one of the car dealerships). The man said he was a Republican. The wreath is red, white and blue with donkey and elephant figures.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #356
357. I know his name. Mr. Blackwater. nt
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #356
364. Suspect killed when police shot him in standoff
Cops must have an ID on this guy.


btw,

Would this be a case of evil police brutality excessive force?
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frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
365. At least one repug already
trying to spin it:

http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080813/ap_on_re_us/democratic_party_shooting

(snip)

Karen Ray, executive director of the Republican Party of Arkansas, sent her workers home early "out of an abundance of caution."

~~

So, the evul libruls will probably try to retaliate, huh, Karen? Yeah, right. :eyes:
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #365
372. self-delete
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 06:16 PM by fascisthunter
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #365
374. I would have done it too...
A deranged madman barged into the other party's state headquarters for no apparent reason and blew the state party chairman away? Damn straight I'm closing the office!

Turns out the guy just lost his job...his favorite winger talking head probably told him the Democrats were responsible for all the job loss in America.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #374
377. Like the guy that took out those Unitarians in Tennessee
This is going to get worse.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #365
376. She did the right thing IMHO
If someone attacked the Republican HQ I'd close the Dem HQ as a precaution. These are mainly volunteers I wouldn't want to risk anyone's life.
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LonelyLRLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #376
381. I agree.
No one knew (and still we don't know) why he picked Gwatney to kill.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
382. He said he lost his job
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9c9_1218664299
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chat_noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #382
408. Johnson fired from Target this morning..
Johnson was also involved in an incident early Wednesday morning at Target in Conway. A Target employee tells us Johnson worked there and was fired earlier Wednesday morning. According to a Conway Police report, a Target manager informed police that Johnson wrote some graffiti on a wall inside the store on 501 Elsinger Blvd. The manager stated Johnson was no longer an employee at Target and was not allowed access to the property.


http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=3fdc243a-df41-42bf-b664-4cb28a4c31a0&rss=315
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
385. Shoot before you know -
Take a look at this DailyKos diary

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/13/172243/299
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #385
386. The headline was "Gwatney Killing NOT Politically Motivated " but police say that's inaccurate
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 07:21 PM by Kire
apparently, according to the diary, which had no sources, the shooter was laid off from one of Gwatney's businesses, but later, somebody said the police are saying that he was not employed by the man
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #386
391. Shoot before you know...
...still applies.

"Wait to make an informed statement" is my motto.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #386
395. Gwatney also was a superdelegate to the Democratic National Convention
shooter identified;

snip
The Little Rock police said about 2:30 p.m. that the suspect, identified later as Timothy Dale Johnson of Seracy, was dead after being shot by authorities near Sheridan, around 40 miles south of the capital city.


Man with a gun entered the State Baptist Convention building downtown
WATCH VIDEOPolice recovered several weapons from 50-year-old Johnson's pickup, a 2000 blue Dodge Dakota, Hastings said.


snip

http://www2.arkansasonline.com/news/2008/aug/13/police-chasing-after-shooting-democratic-party-hea/
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
390. So weird...so this guy was just randomly walking into businesses and pointing guns?
I need a timeline.
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ChoralScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #390
412. Here's an interesting choice of words
the DPA secretary who rushed across the street to a florist to call 911 said the shooter "acted puzzled, nervous and jittery" and repeatedly asked to "see the chairman."

I find it interesting that he referred to him as the chairman, and not as Bill or Mr. Gwatney... this tells me it could possibly be political (at least peripherally) after all.

I got this from the channel 16 website:

http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=3fdc243a-df41-42bf-b664-4cb28a4c31a0&rss=315
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #412
547. VERY interesting indeed. "The chairman" isn't how you'd refer to him
in ANYTHING other than a political context.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
399. Is it me or most American psychos are Republicans?
"...do republicans become serial killers or do serial killers become republicans?
Besides serially killing, what do Gary Ridgway, Ted Bundy, and Dennis Rader have in common?

They're all Republicans. Coincidence? New anecdotal studies give a resounding, "Perhaps."

http://blatherwatch.blogs.com/talk_radio/2006/11/scientists_ask_.html

Oh and what about that "real" Murkan:

Timothy McVeigh was born April 23, 1968 in Pendleton, New York,...

...His only known affiliations are as a registered Republican in his New York days, and as a member of the National Rifle Association while he was in the Army.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/03/29/profile.mcveigh/
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #399
404. One must be nuts to be a republican n/t
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #399
510. Eric Rudoplh
1996 Olympics terroristbomber, violent right-to-lifer,

Republican
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #510
528. Another one!
I'll do some research and post my results.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
401. AP - Bill Gwatney, Ark. Dem. chairman, shot dead at 48
http://ap.google.com/media/ALeqM5jlbHN0nldqMthyM0sw8xCSc1x6jA?size=s

Bill Gwatney, Ark. Dem. chairman, shot dead at 48
By CHUCK BARTELS – 49 minutes ago

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) — Bill Gwatney, who served stints as an Arkansas state senator, chairman of the state's Democratic Party and as a party superdelegate, died Wednesday after a gunman burst into his office at the state party headquarters and shot him several times. He was 48.

Gwatney was fatally shot by Timothy Dale Johnson, 50, of Searcy, police said. Police did not know of a motive, and they said there was no indication that Johnson and Gwatney were acquainted.

The shooting occurred only two blocks from the state Capitol, where Gwatney served in the state Senate from 1993-2002.

The owner of three Little Rock-area car dealerships, Gwatney had been planning to travel to the Democratic National Convention later this month as a superdelegate. He had backed Hillary Rodham Clinton, but endorsed Barack Obama after she dropped out of the race.

Clinton and her husband, former President and former Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton, issued a statement saying Gwatney was "not only a strong chairman of Arkansas' Democratic Party, but ... also a cherished friend and confidante."..cont'd

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gPVnNUxQEMPdG0NhPC9qLgSsGxogD92HNSGG1
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #401
406. excellent obituary
no mention of the shooter, though - as it should be
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
421. They have both been pronounced dead, shooter and victim.. Get hate radio and tv off the air
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
426. DNC Statement on Passing of Arkansas Democratic Party Chair Bill Gwatney
Washington, DC--Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean, DNC
Vice Chair Lottie Shackelford, and former mayor of Little Rock, and
Michigan Democratic Party Chair Mark Brewer, the President of the
Association of State Democratic Chairs, issued the following statement on
the passing of Arkansas Democratic Party Chair Bill Gwatney:

"On behalf of the Democratic Party our thoughts and prayers are with
Chairman Gwatney's family and friends and the extended Democratic family
in Arkansas. With this senseless act of violence we have lost a good
friend and honorable man. Bill will be remembered for his hard work and
dedication to the Party, and he will be sorely missed."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
427. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
430. Clintons: Arkansas Democratic leader killed
Source: CNN.com

The chairman of the Arkansas Democratic Party died Wednesday, hours after a shooting at the party's headquarters, according to a statement from former President Clinton and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.



Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/13/arkansas.shooting/index.html


A very sad day for me.
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chelsea0011 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #430
431. WTF?????????????
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #430
432. He was assassinated.
Pure and simple. Another "win" for hate wing media.
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Staph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #432
434. I expect
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 04:30 PM by Staph
that his bookshelves will be full of books by Limbaugh and Hannity and O'Reilly and Coulter and friends.

But, of course, they will never take any form of responsibility for their words.


(I mean the shooter, of course. Memo to self: proofread before posting.)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
youngharry Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #434
479. assassinator
These assassinators don't realize, that once they assassinate someone, right behnd them is someone that will take them down so that they will never be able to tell the world who put them up to it.
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youngharry Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #479
481. Strange assassinations and suicides
Then there is all those suicides that stop whistleblowers from talking: Jeanne Palfrey (the DC Madam), Bruce Ivins, Cliff Baxter, James Hatfield, David Kelly, John Kokal, Gary Webb, etc. There is probably 50 or more that could easily be put on this list.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #481
485. So, young harry
please add those fifty names you could add so easily.(And no copy and paste from loonasites please.)
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #432
435. You have the righties here telling us that he worked for him
and was fired, and that this has nothing to do with hate.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #435
543. they are convincing anyone but themselves
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
Bingo
Repeat often.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
Actually he was an employee of a car dealership the party head owned
and he had recently been laid off. No indication this was political.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
474. police are saying suspect wasn't a former employee
Lieutenant Hastings said the motive for the shooting was unclear.

"That's something that we'll be looking into. Right now we don't have an answer for you on that," he said, adding that the suspect was not a former Gwatney employee.


http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jm9DYuIE_x8ICCCwKAhyi3PneK_A
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
507. Wrong... The AR papers are reporting he was fired from Target
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 06:38 AM by hlthe2b
that morning for obscenity-laced graffiti he'd peppered on the walls.
http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=3fdc243a-df41-42bf-b664-4cb28a4c31a0
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #432
484. Agreed. This is right-wing terrorism, pure and simple. nt
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #430
433. terrible news. Rest in Peace. n/t
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
436. Police have confirmed that the shooter didn't know Gwatney beforehand...
It's sounding more and more like he was killed because he was a Dem.:cry:

http://www.todaysthv.com/default.aspx <---live stream of news conf on now.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
You think he was on Free Republic, Stormfront, Little Green Footballs, or all of the above? n/t
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
My guess is his trailer's littered with Coulter, Hannity & Savage books...
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
486. If it is
We'll NEVER hear about it in the MSM.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
491. Democrats live in trailers (my mother included) as well, you know.
We can be angry but these stupid, stupid stereotypes have got to go.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #491
499. Hi Mrs G. I'm sorry, no offense intended...
:hi:
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
437. I wonder if the gunman was another fundy freakazoid...
who heard one too many sermons about "evile libruls".

My heart goes out to Chairman Gwatney's family and friends. Don't lose heart, Arkansas Dems...Fight harder. :grouphug:
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
438. that's terrible news confernce on here now
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 04:41 PM by cal04
http://www.todaysthv.com/default.aspx
just finished the news conference, having another one tomorrow . The news is talking about it and reading a statement from the Clintons
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #438
442. something wrong with the link...
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #442
451. sorry ailsagirl, fixed
http://www.todaysthv.com/default.aspx
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
Thank you
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #438
489. Is the Clinton family the head of the Democratic Party
in that state? :shrug:
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #489
495. Dear God, even this is an excuse to snidely insult the Clintons.
He's a former governor who became president. That gives him a wee bit of standing in the state.

Obama will eventually have that for Illinois, and possibly Hawaii...not that I would ever call him a carpetbagger. Great and famous people have left their home states for elective opportunities. Robert Kennedy, Hillary Clinton...
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #495
498. Well, at least it took 59 posts
thats better than usual
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #495
503. noticed that too, huh?
I'm amazed it took that long...

DU is sure populated with IDIOTS...
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #495
508. It never ends
Kicking the Clintons (a moronic thing to do when you're looking to garner votes) is DU's favorite pastime. These people couldn't strategize their way out of a paper bag.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
439. Can we score another kill for the RW pundits who screech and preach:
kill liberals? When will patriotic Americans quit patronizing those who fund those who screech and preach: kill liberals? :D
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #439
444. Bill Gwatney was a Democrat, but he was no liberal (as understood here)
He was what the MSM would have called a "blue dog".
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #444
447. You have to understand the mind (if we can call it that) of a rightie.
It doesn't matter what your policies really are. If you label yourself a dem, you are the enemy to them. This is why you don't see hate wingers voting for guys like Lieberman even though he votes with them.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #447
496. Exactly! To the RW mind, the man was a socialist
Just like Hillary, Bill and Obama!
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #444
452. My mistake thinking a liberal is anyone left of far, no extreme right,
by definition of the hate mongers. :D
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
The the Freepers and Conservatards anyone to the left of Hitler is a Liberal.
Even Ann Coulter acknowledged publicly that she's further to the right than Hitler.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
478. ...and THEN the righties start in with the "Hitler was a socialist" bullshit
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 06:37 PM by Ken Burch
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

(note: that would've been better if we had a "Willy Brandt puking" smilie.)
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asksam Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #439
497. Michelle Malkin did it... she admitted it on her blog.
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/08/13/i-shot-the-arkansas-democrat-party-chairman/

"I shot the Arkansas Democrat party Chairman" she said on her blog.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
440. Maybe FISA is a good idea. Democrats can use it to spy on RW nutjob terrorists
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 04:35 PM by Zorra
to keep them from assassinating innocent people - which they seem to do quite frequently.
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
441. I'm just numb...
:grouphug:
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
443. Very sad
My thoughts go out to his family.

As an aside, he likely would have died anyway due to the severity of his wounds, but does Arkansas have an first class trauma center for this? Thought I read that they don't.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
445. The Arkansas Democrats website:
http://www.arkdems.org/
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
446. crazy sadness -- right wing nutjobs are everywhere now
notice it's only "liberals" getting gunned down.

screw these people. I refuse to be scared. I am so angry I am going to register even more people to vote -- and I'm going into a neighborhood that is "dangerous". Guess what, I'm far more frightened by the "crazy cracker fundies" in this area than I am the people in the neighborhood.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #446
450. It's another reason why I won't go for a total gun ban
They are always a last resort in this culture..
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
448. I'm sorry, sinkingfeeling.
:hug:
:grouphug:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
449. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #449
454. They haven't been in Arkansas for 20 years? Nonsense.
Do you know that they didn't know this gentleman very well?
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
They knew his father, Harold Gwatney. Big-time businessman and Democratic contributor
They would have known Bill, even though his political career didn't start until after the Clintons had left.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
Not everything the Clintons do is a cheap political ploy.
This might be one of those rare instances where they're being genuine.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
Gee maybe they knew him and he supported her bid?
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
473. Oh no that can't be it.
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 05:17 PM by ronnykmarshall
It's just all part of the Clinton's evil plan to take the spotlight away from Obama.

:sarcasm:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
The Clinton's know this man very well.
And Big Dog travels to Little Rock often. He has an apartment there.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
Maybe because he was a FUCKING FRIEND!!!!!
:mad:
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
453. Unreal, awful
condolences to his family. This is horrible.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
More information from an Arkansas blog. The victim was a former state senator.
http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2008/08/capitol_ave_crime_scene.aspx
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
476. condolences to his family
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
May he rest in peace (the victim).
Healing and comforting energy to the family; they are in our thoughts and prayers.

By the way, I just came from doing a two-hour volunteer stint at the Democratic Headquarters here - alone. I'm going to have to rethink that being alone thing.

I live in a very conservative district out here in SoCal (Murrieta/Temecula area). I look into "their" eyes at our weekly peace vigil (the pro-war people stand across the street with their signs). I look into the eyes of the drivers that honk in approval at the pro-war people. They are VERY scared, and are suffering economically. They have been led to believe that "liberals" are responsible for everything. Their ignorance is profoundly shocking.

I'm being more and more careful now; I'm known as a liberal around town. By the way, I'm a Unitarian-Universalist also.

Scary; but I put fear out of my mind. We cannot live in fear.
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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
492. Thanks for all you do, Maat. Please be careful. n/t
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #492
502. And, thank YOU for the kind words (n/t)!
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
Dupe
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 05:04 PM by Truth2Tell
Source: dupe

dupe

Read more: dupe
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
They mean "assassinated", don't they?
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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Original message
He was a strong Clinton supporter
Only two choices left I guess...

1. RWingnuts made him do it.

2. Non Hillary supporters made him do it.

Now that the shooter is off the hook we need to round up the usual suspects.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
475. Do you *really* want to go there?
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 06:02 PM by CakeGrrl
RWers or "Non Hillary supporters" made him do it?

Really?

"Usual suspects"? Who might that be?

If you're going to open up the door to conspiracy theories, at least be equal opportunity about it.

Ever hear of the Reichstag Fire? Keep all options open if you're going on a wild speculation ride.

The mumblings are that it might be a disgruntled worker, so everything's still unknown.

:crazy:
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XRubicon Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
487. You're number one in my book
"1. RWingnuts made him do it.

2. Non Hillary supporters made him do it."
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
477. kick-- who cares if mccain's wife is in the hospital? this is far more
important
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
480. I had JUST got done reading the thread linked inside, then saw this one:
This thread is the one I read first:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3790402&mesg_id=3790402

Then I saw the OP here.

God...
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #480
482. kick
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
483. So tragic. RIP
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
488. I am appalled beyond words.
I hope that Democratic HQs in other cities tighten up security.
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BRLIB Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
490. The Hate Talk Express strikes again!
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #430
493. I just took a look at TV-- the only mention was a banner at the
bottom of BBC News. WTF???
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #430
494. No time for stupidity here. A committed Dem was killed by a deranged person. Not political.
Somebody had better provide some damned strong proof that this wasn't just another human tragedy before speculating any further.

RIP to this gentleman. We lost a solid Dem today, and a person loved by his family and friends.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #494
500. Well, he asked to see the victim by name apperently,
so it was not a random killing per se.
That sounds fairly political to me.

And this is starting to look a bit like a trend, with the recent UU shooting.

In light of that, speculation is bound to occur. It may not be warranted, but it is going to happen.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #430
501. The shooter had been fired from his job a Target
After the firing, he first brandished a gun at a Baptist convention headquarters, left and then headed to the Democratic Party headquarters where he asked to see the chairman.

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=70759&catid=2
http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=3fdc243a-df41-42bf-b664-4cb28a4c31a0
http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0808/543911.html

The guy was on a rampage. If there is a logic to why he went where he went and did what he did, we don't know about it yet. That will come out later with investigation.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #501
504. I've always wondered why nobody has ever shot up the signery at a Target store
If you are going to shoot something, wouldn't all the target logos in a Target store be a logical choice? Especially if you were pissed off at the store. If you could manage avoid hitting any people, you would even get out of jail eventually.

This was at least in part a "suicide by cop".

:shrug:
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judasdisney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #430
505. Arkansas? Nothing sub rosa here, move along.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #505
509. No, there isn't -- Jeebus
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Ian_rd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #430
506. Kick. This could be another Unitarian Church
Perhaps we need to keep track of violence against liberals/dems if this is going to be an emerging phenomenon.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
455. Man fired from job kills Ark. Democratic chairman
Source: AP

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - Police and neighbors are struggling to explain why a man described as a loner drove more than 30 miles to Arkansas' Democratic Party headquarters and fatally shot its chairman hours after getting fired from his job.

Police said Timothy Dale Johnson, 50, of Searcy, barged into Bill Gwatney's office on Wednesday and shot him multiple times. There were no signs that Gwatney and Johnson, who was later shot dead by officers, knew each other.

A Target retail store in Conway had fired Johnson early Wednesday because he had written graffiti on a wall, police said. Before noon, Johnson was in Gwatney's office in Little Rock with a handgun.

<snip>

After the shooting, Johnson sped away in a truck, stopped seven blocks away at the Arkansas State Baptist Convention and pointed a gun at the building's manager, police said. When asked what was wrong, the gunman said "I lost my job," according to Dan Jordan, the church group's business manager.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080814/ap_on_re_us/democratic_party_shooting


I want to know what he wrote on the wall. Rush is Right?
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Smith_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #455
456. The guy probably believed the "Democrats make you lose your job" bullshit.
:scared: :grr:

Expect more of this shit to follow. The right wing is losing its mind.
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Somawas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #456
457. "is losing"? That ship sailed a long time ago.
nt.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #456
458. Just like the guy shooting up the church the other week. I'm all about some free
speech, but this is really starting to get strange out there.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #458
466. why is it that Republicans believe that $$$ is free speech?
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #466
468. Because Republicans put a price on Everything
That's why!
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Cal Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #455
459. Sounds like the graffiti got cleaned up right quick
I'd like to know what it said too...
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #455
460. I suspect this shooting is similar in motive to the church shooting in Knoxville TN.
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 06:46 AM by fasttense
Hate radio inspired and encouraged. There ought to be a law against encouraging people to murder others like right wing hate mongers do.

But then of course we would get the criminals enforcing those laws saying that when you break the law it's not always a crime. Now not only can the repukes decide which laws they will follow, they will decide when the crime is really a crime.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #460
467. I'm no lawyer, but....
>>>There ought to be a law against encouraging people to murder others like right wing hate mongers do. >>>>

... I'm quite sure that in at least *some* jurisdictions it is a felony offense to encourage people... via spoken and /or written word ... to engage in violent illegal activity.

What's needed is for prosecutors/DAs in relevant jurisdictions to bring charges.
If the laws are not on the books, I'd be astonished.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #455
461. Would be interesting to know what it was - enough to call the police
"According to Conway police spokeswoman Sharen Carter, Target fired Johnson before 8 a.m. Wednesday because he had written on a wall. A manager had called police because of the graffiti but the wall had already been cleaned and Johnson had left by the time officers arrived."
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CanonRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #455
462. So, what was the graffiti?
Anybody know?
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #462
463. Probably some right wing nonsense.
He wrote it on a wall and got caught and fired, then he blamed the Democrats for the whole thing because he's moran.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #462
464. Just found this - Day of Rage Subsequent to the Gwatney's shooting, Johnson had reportedly told a
witness, "I lost my job," but it was later reported that the suspect had quit his job as an hourly worker at Target that same morning.1 3 According to co-workers, Johnson had defaced the store's premises on the way out, leaving graffiti in a hallway that read "This hallway is too God-damn narrow," and the phrase "sorority b-----s" scrawled on the door of the human resources office.3

http://www.mahalo.com/Timothy_Dale_Johnson
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #464
472. OK, that's...peculiar.
Just as odd as the assertion that the anthax killer had issues with a college sorority. WTF is going on?
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Dollface Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #472
533. Not sure. But I bet the Manchurian sorority is involved.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #464
526. That information is 100% bizarre
The guy was out of his tree. I wonder if there were drugs involved, or perhaps a neurological condition.
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #462
550. LA Times did a little investigating
Police said they could not confirm the exact messages Johnson had written because they had been quickly wiped away by Target management.


Store managers confronted the erratically behaving Johnson, and he stormed out of the store. Concerned that Johnson might return and harm them, managers called police.

The officer who responded to the call wrote in a police report that "Johnson seemed to be extremely irate," according to Target manager Bobby Thomas.

Thomas told the officer that "Johnson was no longer employed at Target and was not allowed access to the property," the report says.

"The initial call came out that Target management wanted to talk about a disgruntled employee . . . that wrote some graffiti on the walls," said Conway police spokeswoman Sharen Carter. "Some of the things that were written were obscene. Management approached this employee, and he turned in his Target badge and left. He was not there by the time officers arrived."

More: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-demshooting15-2008aug15,0,730296.story
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #455
465. Let try not to jump to conclusions
This includes me.

With a man crazy enough to do something like this it is impossible to really know what he was thinking.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #465
470. It is difficult to know what he was thinking
And fortunately, our violence-drenched society made sure we'll never know what Mr. Johnson was going through yesterday, since he was killed by our police.

Though we may get a chance to know what Mr. Adkisson, the shooter in Knoxville, was thinking. But that's only because the heavily-armed man was taken down and taken alive by an unarmed bunch of latte-sipping, Volvo-driving liberals.

Golly, maybe violence isn't the universal panacea the High Church of Redemptive Violence would like us to believe? Two shooters, two heinous crimes, and in one case, the usual outcome and "we'll never know." But in the other case, the possibility of learning something new and different. Clearly, that is something that very powerful forces in our society must work very hard to prevent from happening again.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #455
469. Sounds like he was in a very abnormal mental state
and his bizarre behaviour led to his being fired - and then escalated tragically. It may or may not have been linked to political attitudes.

What happened is really tragic and shocking.

RIP Bill Gwatney.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #469
514. True.....
For all anybody knows, the dog next door was telling him to do this. I hope the police investigation reveals more details.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #455
471. what is with these assholes blaming Democrats/liberals for losing jobs
look at who has been in power all these years when the economy has gone down. they must be so full of hate from decades of right wing hate that they just refuse to believe or accept they can be wrong about who they supported.

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apnu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
515. Arkansas Democratic Party chairman is gunned down
Source: LA Times

The chairman of the Arkansas Democratic Party was shot and killed Wednesday by a man who barged into his Little Rock office.

The suspect fled, apparently to the Arkansas Baptist State Convention about six blocks down the street, where he threatened a security guard. When he left there, sheriff's deputies gave chase and shot him after a 30-minute pursuit, authorities said. He later died.

Police identified the gunman as Timothy Dale Johnson, 50, of Searcy, the Associated Press reported. Johnson's motive remained a mystery.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-demshooting14-2008aug14,0,4192121.story


shocked. :(
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #515
516. graffiti at Target?
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #516
523. "This hallway to too god-damn narrow" and "sorority b------s"
(according to this source:)

According to co-workers, Johnson had defaced the store's premises on the way out, leaving graffiti in a hallway that read "This hallway is too God-damn narrow," and the phrase "sorority b-----s" scrawled on the door of the human resources office.
http://www.mahalo.com/Timothy_Dale_Johnson
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #523
534. There was definitely something very wrong with that man
Very strange stuff indeed.
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Dollface Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #515
520. I wonder what the graffiti said
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #520
521. I'm glad I'm not the only one here who is eccentric enough to wonder about that
"All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy", perhaps?

But seriously, it may provide important clues as to the guy's abnormal mental state.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #521
532. "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy"
Lol!Good one. :)
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demgurl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
527. I have to step in and have my say since I have been targeted before.
I have been targeted by rethugs before and I truly believe that it is because of the inspirations hate radio give out. If you search my name you will find I have talked about a vehicle passing me on a two lane residential street. The vehicle swerved in front of my car and would not let me pass. I felt very threatened and it was all because the guy did not like my liberal bump stickers.

Another time I had a woman in a parking lot stop me and tell me, in front of my kids, that if I did not like this country I should move to another. That was a wonderful opportunity for me to teach my kids about how important free speech and tolerance is. By the way the entire time she was shouting, yes shouting, at me to leave the country, she was pointing to my bumper stickers on my car.

The big one was when comedian Rush Limpballs used a post of mine to try and make all liberals look bad. He changed the details of my incident and reported on the 'poster from DU'. It went all over the internet after that. There were people stating how no death was too good for me and how they wanted to bury me. People were stating how I do not deserve to be alive. All of this happened because Rush broadcast a bunch of lies about me. I felt very threatened by all of that. And in case you think Rush did all the lies by accident, you are mistaken. I wrote to him giving him proof about the real incident and what the facts truly were but he did not retract his story.

For all of you who say hate radio is not responsible just because all of the listeners are not committing crimes, you are wrong. For all of you who do not think hate show hosts should be punished, you are wrong. Until you are targeted and feel your life is threatened you may not understand. BUt I have been targeted, lied about and threatened and I know the fear. I know what some of these people are capable of if only they are encouraged by others in a higher position than they are.

I have felt the hate. They have committed the violence. Something must be done before others are hurt.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #527
529. "if I did not like this country I should move to another."
It sounds a lot like the BS the Right-Wingers were shouting in the good old days of

The Cold War and McCarthyism."if you don't like this country move to Russia"

The terrorists have replaced The Evil Communists and peoples like Limpballs have replaced Joseph

McCarthy.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
535. Police Find Note Bearing Gwatney's Name, Phone Number in Gunman's Home
http://arkansasbusiness.com/article.aspx?lID=64&sID=65&ms=86&cID=ZZZ&aID=107305.94518.119431

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) -- Police exploring a possible link between the chairman of Arkansas Democratic Party and his assailant found in the killer's house 14 guns, antidepressants, a will and a Post-It note that bore the victim's last name and a telephone number.

Police say they know of no relationship between Timothy Dale Johnson, 50, and Bill Gwatney, 48, a car dealer and former state senator who served as the state's Democratic Party chairman. Johnson shot Gwatney to death Wednesday and was killed by officers after a 30-minute chase.

Wednesday's search of Johnson's home near Searcy, northeast of Little Rock, turned up two sets of keys for vehicles from Gwatney car lots. The guns included a pistol and 13 long guns.

Little Rock police Lt. Terry Hastings said officers didn't know what to make of the note with Gwatney's name on it. He did not know whether the telephone number was linked to either the Democratic Party or a car dealership, and did not disclose it.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #535
537. Interesting article.
Thanks for posting. I suppose the keys are from vehicles he bought from the victim?
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #537
538. "I suppose the keys are from vehicles he bought from the victim?"
That's what I would assume. Maybe he was afraid of a repo action, or had already had one? Wasn't taking his meds? They said they found a will. When was it dated?

Still more questions to be answered.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #538
540. They should count the pills to see if he stopped taking them...
...that can really mess a dude up.:crazy:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
545. Why is there all this evidence of right-wing advocation of violence --- and nothing being done????
Isn't there a group or organization which would respond --- obviously, the FCC should be

responding --- Democratic leadership should be responding; think of how they demonized

Dashle as "devil" - "satan" -- and look where this has gone with actually putting Siegelman

in prison---!!!

And the Dems are just sitting there --- ????
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #545
556. very good question... maybe it's time we demanded something be done
before people start taking the law into their own hands. Then we can say good bye to a civilized country at least until the shootings stop. Hmmmmm... reminds me of gang violence.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #545
559. Google "Morris Dees" for exemplary civil suits bankrupting the hate mongers.
Empty their pockets to shut them up! Money talks and talking hate costs!
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Franc_Lee Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
557. Well we now know the M$M is owned by the repugs as there is/was no coverage of
an extremely newsworthy story...
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lifesbeautifulmagic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
558. the deafening silence of the media on this story makes me think that
this man was an avid consumer of right wing hate, radio, tv, books, and internets. This may be the reason there is no coverage, while they circle the wagons, get rid of the evidence and memorize the talking points.

Either that, or the media elite truly do look at the Democrats with utter disdain and contempt, once again showing their true faces.
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