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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 04:49 AM
Original message
STOCK MARKET WATCH, Monday September 8
Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Monday September 8, 2008

COUNTING THE DAYS
DAYS REMAINING IN THE * REGIME 135

DAYS SINCE DEMOCRACY DIED (12/12/00) 2787 DAYS
WHERE'S OSAMA BIN-LADEN? 2512 DAYS
DAYS SINCE ENRON COLLAPSE = 2803
Number of Enron Execs in handcuffs = 19
ENRON EXECS CONVICTED = 10
Enron execs conveniently deceased = 3
Other Arrests of Execs = 54



U.S. FUTURES &
MARKETS INDICATORS>
NASDAQ FUTURES-----------------------------S&P FUTURES





AT THE CLOSING BELL WHEN BUSH TOOK OFFICE on January 22, 2001
Dow - 10,578.24
Nasdaq - 2,757.91
S&P 500 - 1,342.90
Oil - $27.69/bbl
Gold - $266.70/oz.
$1 USD = EUR 1.06678
$1 USD = JPY 116.6200


AT THE CLOSING BELL ON September 5, 2008

Dow... 11,220.96 +32.73 (+0.29%)
Nasdaq... 2,255.88 -3.16 (-0.14%)
S&P 500... 1,242.31 +5.48 (+0.44%)
Gold future... 803.50 +0.30 (+0.04%)
30-Year Bond 4.28% -0.01 (-0.12%)
10-Yr Bond... 3.66% +0.02 (+0.47%)






GOLD,EURO, YEN, Loonie and Silver



PIEHOLE ALERT

Heads Up!
Preliminary info on appearances by Bush & Co. throughout the country. Details & links are added as they become available so check back. And if you know more, are organizing something, or would like to, contact actionpost@legitgov.org

For information on protests and other actions Citizens For Legitimate Government









Read more: du
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. Market WrapUp
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. Today's Report
15:00 Consumer Credit Jul
Briefing.com $9.0B
Consensus $8.5B
Prior $14.3B

http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/Calendars/EconomicCalendar.htm
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. Oil rises in Asia as Ike threatens Gulf of Mexico
SINGAPORE - Oil prices rose Monday in Asia as Hurricane Ike looked poised to slam into the Gulf of Mexico later this week, delaying efforts to bring oil and gas production back online in a region still recovering from Hurricane Gustav.

Light, sweet crude for October delivery rose $1.25 to $107.50 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange midafternoon in Singapore. The contract fell Friday by $1.66 to settle at $106.23, a five-month low.

Royal Dutch Shell said it would keep staffing at its offshore Gulf installations, which it reduced ahead of Gustav last week, to a minimum as it monitors Ike.

...

In other Nymex trading, heating oil futures rose 5.17 cents to $3.0345 a gallon, while gasoline prices jumped 8.22 cents to $2.7683 a gallon. Natural gas for October delivery gained 21.1 cents to $7.66 per 1,000 cubic feet.

In London, October Brent crude rose $1.50 to $105.59 a barrel on the ICE Futures exchange.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Oil prices rebound on eve of OPEC meet
LONDON (AFP) - Oil prices rallied Monday on expectations that the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries would begin cutting crude output as prices trade close to the 100 dollar-a-barrel mark, traders said.

....

Most analysts surveyed by AFP expected the 13-nation group to agree to trim its output informally at its meeting before waiting until later, possibly at a scheduled gathering in December, to alter its official output target.

The trimming would be achieved by members, mainly powerhouse Saudi Arabia, agreeing to cut their excess production above their OPEC quota, which would remove oil from the market but not amount to a formal change in policy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080908/bs_afp/commoditiesenergyoilprice_080908093356
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 04:57 AM
Response to Original message
5. US Government takes over mortgage giants
WASHINGTON - The Bush administration's seizure of troubled mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is potentially a $200 billion bet that it will help reverse a prolonged housing and credit crisis.

The historic move announced Sunday won support from both presidential campaigns, but private analysts worried that it may not be enough to stabilize the slumping housing market given the glut of vacant homes for sale, rising foreclosures, rising unemployment and weak consumer confidence.

Officials announced that both giant institutions were being placed in a government conservatorship, a move that could end up costing taxpayers billions of dollars. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said allowing the companies to fail would have extracted a far higher price on consumers by driving up the cost of home loans and all other types of borrowing because the failures would "create great turmoil in our financial markets here at home and around the globe."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080908/ap_on_bi_ge/mortgage_giants_crisis
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. World markets soar after Freddie, Fannie bailouts
TOKYO - World stock markets soared Monday after Washington announced a bailout of mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — a move that could help bolster a shaky U.S. housing market and renew global investor confidence.

Japan's benchmark Nikkei 225 index surged or 3.4 percent to 12,624.46, while Hong Kong's Hang Seng index advanced 4.3 percent to 20,794.27. Seoul's Kospi rose 5.2 percent.

In morning trading in Europe, Britain's FTSE 100 was up 3.7 percent, Germany's DAX climbed 3.4 percent and France's CAC 40 was up 4.6 percent.

....

Bucking the regional trend was China's Shanghai Composite index, which fell 2.7 percent to 2,143.42 — its lowest close since Dec. 8, 2006. Worries over the economic outlook overshadowed news of a plan by a market regulator to help ease an oversupply of newly tradable shares.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080908/ap_on_bi_ge/world_markets_14
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. "could help bolster a shaky U.S. housing market and renew global investor confidence."
umm...yeah.....right.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Of course it's a lie.
See Mish's step-by-step analysis of the statement from Treasury.
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NeoConsSuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. Sure it will renew confidence
Now that Wall Street knows the taxpayer is always there to clean up the mess of unregulated capitalism.

Privatize the profits, socialize the risks. It's the American way.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
27. GLOBAL MARKETS-Fannie, Freddie bailout spurs hunger for risk
Mon Sep 8, 2008 2:22am EDT

HONG KONG, Sept 8 (Reuters) - Asian stocks surged 4 percent on Monday after Washington took over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to salvage the U.S. housing market, spurring investors to buy back risky assets and sell safe havens such as government bonds.

...

Fund managers, who have been keeping their portfolios heavy with cash, devoured bank shares and ploughed into Asia-Pacific currencies other than yen after what could be the biggest U.S. government bailout ever eased some fears in credit markets.

Still, the potential heavy borrowing the U.S. government may need to fund the rescue package could ultimately hurt the U.S. dollar, some analysts said, a prospect that also sent Treasury bond yields higher.

"You do take some of default risk out of the market, so in that sense this is good for other financial assets. You have reduced systemic default risk," said Paul Schulte, regional strategist with Lehman Brothers in Hong Kong.

"Longer-term we have a lot more glass to crawl over because we have arrangements with other financial institutions that need to get worked out," he said.

...

Stocks of large banks such as Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group (8306.T: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Mizuho Financial Group (8411.T: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) rallied 13.3 percent and 12.1 percent, respectively.

The MSCI index of Asia-Pacific stocks traded outside of Japan .MIAPJ0000PUS was up 4.8 percent, rebounding from the lowest since October 2006. It was on track for the biggest daily gain since January 2008.

Hong Kong's Hang Seng index .HSI was up 3.9 percent, led by shares of Europe's largest lender HSBC Holdings (0005.HK: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz).

Government bond prices have become increasingly more expensive relative to Asian equities because investors have been reluctant to buy into local markets with inflation and a global slowdown combining to darken the outlook.

For example, the earnings yield on the S&P Asia 50 index minus the yield on the 10-year U.S. Treasury note -- a gauge of Asian stocks' value relative to risk-free bonds -- is at the highest since October 2005.

...

Dealers in the currency market scrambled to sell yen for just about every major currency after last week knocking down the euro to the lowest in a year against the yen because of fears the global economy was slowing rapidly.

The euro jumped to 156.30 yen <EURJPY=R>, up 1.7 percent from Friday and bouncing sharply above a 13-month low hit last week of 150.60. The dollar climbed 0.9 percent to 108.65 yen <JPY=>.

The U.S. currency fell 1.2 percent against the Singapore dollar <SGD=> and 1.6 percent against the Malaysian ringgit <MYR=>.

...

Asian local currency debt yields narrowed relative to their benchmarks and credit default swap spreads, a measure of the cost of insuring against default, also tightened as investors repriced the level of risk in markets.

The iTRAXX Asia ex-Japan high-yield index <ITAHY5Y=IE>, a regional gauge of risk aversion, fell by 35 basis points to around 535-540, according to a trader, roughly where it was a month ago.

...

Citigroup analysts said the longer Washington increases its debt by figuring a way out essentially to restructure the housing market, the more the dollar and U.S. assets in general are seen in a negative light.

"This stops well short of the 'nightmare scenario' where foreign investors start to sell the stock of their U.S. holdings, triggering a U.S. dollar collapse, but represents another factor arguing against more dollar-favorable capital flows," the analysts said in a note.

U.S. Treasuries fell sharply in reaction to the Fannie and Freddie bailout. Benchmark 10-year Treasury prices fell, pushing up yields to 3.84 percent <US10YT=RR>, up from 3.71 percent in late U.S. trading on Friday. (Editing by Lincoln Feast)

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINSP31177620080908?rpc=44&sp=true
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
28. China frets at U.S. risk after Fannie/Freddie bailout
BEIJING (Reuters) - The U.S. Treasury's takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is good news in the short term for China, the biggest holder of the giant mortgage lenders' debt, but Beijing's huge U.S. exposure still poses a serious risk, a prominent government researcher said on Monday.

China owned $376 billion of debt issued by U.S. government agencies, principally Fannie and Freddie, as of mid-2007.

..

"China has bought a lot of asset-backed securities, and there might be short-term improvement in price," said He Fan, an economist with the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

But, taking a longer view, he said the bailout posed a problem: if the Treasury issues new debt to fund the rescue, should China be a buyer or not?

"For China, whether or not you buy the new treasuries, there will be losses: if you buy them, you're getting deeper in the hole; if you don't buy, your existing holdings will lose value," He said.

...

Bank of China said on August 29 it had slashed its exposure to Fannie and Freddie to $12.67 billion as of August 25 from $17.3 billion at the end of June.

Vice-Premier Wang Qishan, who is in overall charge of economic and financial policies, did not comment directly on the two agencies' woes. But, speaking in the southern city of Xiamen, he said the credit crisis was having "quite a serious impact."

Although the takeover of the mortgage lenders was a reminder of the investment risks China is taking, He said the country had little room to diversify its $1.8 trillion in currency reserves.

Buying non-government dollar bonds would be even riskier, while the euro is expensive and yields in Japan are low.

"If we don't buy U.S. treasuries and ABS, what else we can buy?" He said. "China just has no way to avoid the risks. Whatever we do, we have to bear the losses."

There was a vigorous reaction among Chinese Internet users.

A blogger on www.163.com said "a capitalist country is now acting to save the market and protect investors," whereas China's government had sat idly by during a 64 percent plunge in the Shanghai stock market since last October.

"How can Chinese stock investors not be sad? How can they not lose confidence?" the post said.

The main Shanghai index (^SSEC - News) shed 2 percent on Monday, touching a fresh 20-month low, despite a rally elsewhere in Asia triggered by the takeover of the two firms.

/... http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080908/fannie_freddie_china.html?.v=2
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
30. European stocks surge on Fannie, Freddie plan
Mon Sep 8, 2008 3:28am EDT

LONDON, Sept 8 (Reuters) - European shares soared in early trade on Monday, bouncing from last week's slump, after the U.S. government seized control of major U.S. mortgage firms Fannie Mae (FNM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Freddie Mac (FRE.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz).

At 0720 GMT, the FTSEurofirst 300 FTEU3 was up 3.6 percent at 1,165.79. France's CAC-40 .FCHI, Germany's DAX .GDAXI and the FTSE .FTSE notched up gains of between between 3.1 and 4.2 percent.

"It will be big for the banks. Mortgage rates should come down, and this should give some stability to the market," said a Paris-based strategist. "There will be a big one-day pop. But it's really only reclaiming what was lost last week. It's not a big break in the trend, which is still downwards," he added.

...

Banks surged, with UBS (UBSN.VX: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) up 11 percent, BNP Paribas (BNPP.PA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) up 8 percent, Credit Agricole (CAGR.PA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) up 11.1 percent and HBOS (HBOS.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) up 13.8 percent.

The DJ Stoxx European banking sector index was up 5.5 percent.

Freddie Mac (FRE.F: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) shares in Frankfurt were down nearly 60 percent.

/.. http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idCAL862976820080908?rpc=44
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Europe shares jump (London Exchange's comms down)
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 07:06 AM by Ghost Dog
Mon Sep 8, 2008 7:49am EDT

LONDON, Sept 8 (Reuters) - European shares raced higher by midday on Monday, cheered by a U.S. government move to seize control of mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae (FNM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Freddie Mac (FRE.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), boosting financials and metals stocks.

The bailout, which could be its biggest ever to support the U.S. housing market and ward off more global financial market turbulence, soothed investors, who have been badly burned this year by big losses at banks and a slowing economy.

At 1129 GMT, Germany's DAX .GDAXI was up 3.2 percent, while France's CAC .FCHI gained 4.7 percent. The London Stock Exchange, which reported technical problems, said in its last update that it was continuing to reconnect its customers.

...

"It's an assertive response on the part of the U.S. administration to deal in a related area that has a direct bearing on the root cause of what currently underlies the credit crisis," said Mike Lenhoff, chief strategist at Brewin Dolphin.

"One has to see this in the context of what's happening elsewhere in the markets. The best judge whether this is going to be good or bad will be made by the corporate debt market ... whether those spreads are going to start to tighten.

"If they do, then you can feel reasonably assured that this is something that could work," he added.

The banking sector was the top weighted-gainer on the FTSEurofirst 300, with UBS (UBSN.VX: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) jumping 12 percent, BNP Paribas (BNPP.PA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) adding 9.2 percent and Credit Agricole (CAGR.PA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) surging 11.4 percent.

The DJ Stoxx European banking sector index was up 7.8 percent. Anglo Irish Bank (ANGL.I: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) made the most advance and was up 14.4 percent, while Allied Irish Bank (ALBK.I: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) was up 12.2 percent.

...

European credit spreads enjoyed their sharpest rally since March, with the investment grade Markit iTraxx Europe index <ITEEU5Y=GF> more than 13 points tighter versus late on Friday.

Mining and energy stocks also advanced, riding on a positive market wave and supported by a rise in commodity prices.

Energy stocks gained, tracking crude that rose as Hurricane Ike spun towards the U.S. oil hub in the Gulf of Mexico while traders awaited OPEC's decision this week on output policy.

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idCAL868050320080908?rpc=44&sp=true
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #30
61. Europe shares close up after Fannie, Freddie rescue
FRANKFURT, Sept 8 (Reuters) ... Germany's DAX .GDAXI closed unofficially up 2.1 percent, the French CAC 40 .FCHI gained 3.2 percent and Switzerland's SMI .SSMI rose 2.9 percent.

The London Stock Exchange .LSE.L suffered from technical problems for most of the session. Britain's FTSE 100 .FTSE ended with a gain of 3.9 percent, according to Reuters data.

/.. http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idCAL89124920080908?rpc=44
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. Bailout of Fannie, Freddie lifts FTSE 3.6 percent
Mon Sep 8, 2008 8:58am BST
LONDON (Reuters) - Britain's top share index surged 3.6 percent on Monday as banks jumped after Washington took control of mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae (FNM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and Freddie Mac (FRE.N: Quote, Profile, Research) to support the U.S. housing market.

By 3:28 a.m. EDT, the FTSE 100 .FTSE was up 186.6 points at 5,427.3 -- on track for its biggest single-day rise since January 24 and recovering some of last week's 7 percent fall, its worst weekly loss in six years.

"It would be nice to think (the rally) will last, but I don't think it will, because the Freddie and Fannie bailout was inevitable. It doesn't really solve the problem," said Jeremy Batstone-Carr, head of private client research at Charles Stanley, adding that the U.S. authorities had run out of options.

"The problem in the funding market remains acute... Once the dust is settled after a day or so, maybe not even, we will be back worrying about the continuing pressure in the funding market, together with the ongoing weakness in the Western economies."

/... http://uk.reuters.com/article/londonMktRpt/idUKL861467820080908?sp=true

Odd. No reference to the "technical problems" here, but look at the chart from Reuters UK. And this is the latest report from Reuters on UK markets at this time - early morning. London on lockdown? Investigating...

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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. Major Delay For UK Share Trading
The story is being, I won't say 'covered', but talked-about more by less-corporate and regional and internet press than the usual suspects.

Guess they're not sure what happened? Were they cracked (note second story below, from ITN - national commercial TV News)?


A computer glitch at the London Stock Exchange left City traders unable to cash in on a worldwide share boom for much of the day.

Trading was halted soon after UK stocks rallied in the morning following the bail-out of USmortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and only resumed seven hours later.

Officials said they had suspended connections to its trading system after some clients experienced difficulty accessing market data.

The glitch hit as the FTSE 100 Index - which measures the share prices of the UK's top 100 companies - roared ahead nearly 4% thanks to a US rescue package of the troubled mortgage firms.

There was half an hour's trading late in the afternoon before the Footsie closed up 3.92% at 5,446.30.

Some of the UK's biggest banking stocks surged to double-digit gains.

/... http://www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_2999023.html?menu=


--

FTSE resumes after seven-hour glitch
Updated 16.07 Mon Sep 08 2008

... The LSE has not yet revealed the cause of the problems.

Another major electronic exchange, the Intercontinental Exchange (Ice), also shut down its operations as a result of "technical issues".

Ice, which is based in the US but has major operations in London, offers futures and other specialist financial contracts for commodities including crude oil, natural gas and electricity.

A recorded message said: "The Ice trading platform is experiencing technical issues. As a result, all futures and Over-The-Counter markets have been closed. All unexecuted active orders in closed markets have been held."

/... http://itn.co.uk/news/c11ff726f90f16a6ead4ddd4d167c738.html
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #67
96. Well, That's Damned Peculiar
add it to the oddity list, next to the tinfoil boxes....
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
32. Trichet comments at central bankers' meeting
BASEL, Switzerland, Sept 8 (Reuters) - Below are highlights of comments made at a news conference by European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet after he chaired the global economy meeting of central bankers held at the Bank for International Settlements on Monday.

ON GROWTH:

"We see at the global economy level that growth remains positive and significant. At the same time we observe a degree of slowing down which is visible in terms of average growth. But it remains significant and very positive.

"It will also be visible in the quarterly profile of global growth with some kind of slowing down and then picking up over the next period of time.

"The resilience (of emerging economies) remains substantial and it is because of the resilience of the emerging economies that we see that global resilience." (Reporting by Krista Hughes; Sven Egenter and Tamora Vidaillet; editing by David Stamp))

/. http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINL828982620080908?rpc=44
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Reuters related: Global Economy: What is Happening?
Powered by BlogBurst
POSTED: Sunday, August 24, 2008
FROM BLOG: Angry Bear - A slightly left of center economic commentary on news, politics, and the economy.

The following blog post is from an independent writer and is not connected with Reuters News. The opinions and views expressed herein are those of the author and are not endorsed by Reuters.com.

Bears or Bulls? Winners or Losers? What is going on out there? The Time Online today has a nice overview of various takes on the global economy. Below are some choice quotations, the first being my favorite:


“Yachts,” he said. In previous summers the ruling families of the Gulf came to Monte Carlo to tie up next to western bankers. This summer, Smith said, western financiers are taking their yachts to the Gulf to curry favour with the families overseeing Middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds.
“I ring my contacts and they’re all in Abu Dhabi,” said Smith. These are not bankers but men who own and run large private companies. “These are the guys the sovereign wealth funds want to work with – guys so far off the radar they make the hedge funds look transparent.”


Here are some others, certain to raise debate:

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/blogBurst/investing?type=hotStocksNews&w1=B7ovpm21IaDoL40ZFnNfGe&w2=B7pJeHult9GszE37UXlSpmUm&src=blogBurst_investingNews&bbPostId=Cz7AUfJr2aEjXBzUaqECxUbXTCz9TXbcd0VpcFB4q5xF2QdqVB&bbParentWidgetId=B7gSUbux1hpbz8uOa7TWsLnV
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Futures Up Triple Digits on Bailout
And the Nikkei 225 opened up +306.91 that's plus +2.5% to 12,519.14 as of 9/8 9:15am Tokyo time.

I love the headlines that accompany this: Asian Stocks, U.S. Futures Rally on Fannie, Freddie Takeover Yeah! We're all Socialists now!

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/09/futures-up-trip.html
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Good Morning Ozy
I don't know if you have taken a look a The Futures this morning, but it is most obscene.

One has to shake one's head in disbelief at the reaction to this news, and wonder what we've become, and what planet we are living on.

Over at prudentbear.com, one of the Sites I frequent daily, one of the more insightful posters lamented on his thoughts about yesterday's events. I though I would post them here, because they sum it up just about perfectly:

The Fannie, Freddie and Sarah hype...

smokey NEW 9/7/2008 10:48:22 PM
Post Your Reply


... have something in common.

They are fads.

Fads occur from the top down therefore their life span is very short.

Flocks of doves reading to every word the media belches out about the bailout that will never happen are ignoring the writing on the wall.

The system is bleeding at the core which starts with the poor. And the more the poor bleed, the more the poor grow into that which was heretofore never poor.

That is the nature of collapsing cultures.

A true collapse never happens from the top down. It is only when the poor remain few in number that the authorities can pretend change. But the more the poor proliferate the faster this pretension loses effect.

These proposals borne out of the fear of stepping on the toes of wealthy creditors exacerbated the economic collapse by levying payment in the form of increased taxes, higher borrowing costs and more price inflation upon those who cannot afford it.

The poor are growing in number day-by-day. The foundation of the economy and the convoluted financial system is crumbling while the ignorant authorities try to save the penthouse.

It's the last gasp of the voodoo, trickle-down, economic experiment. Its failure has been obvious on a walk through any Downtown, USA for years and now it is obvious in the drive-bys in Uptown also.

"Fannie Mae" and "Freddie Mac" are but hastily written placards held up in front of the firing squad in hopes that they will block the bullets. Paulson's prayers out of panic are but pleas to God Almighty for a divine reprieve.

It's too late.

The writing on the dining room wall at Jeckyl Island predicted all that is occurring now but the drunkards were too busy trying to see how many tomorrows they could stuff into today....

Ninety-five years worth.

That's all, folks."


That's All, Indeed.

Have a good day, my friend. it's going to be a strange day in The Twilight Zone that has become our country.

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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Good morning.
This is so very bizarre for the markets to behave this way. It's not a capitalistic move to nationalize Freddie and Fannie. This is a socialist scheme.

Pimco's Bill Gross cannot be too happy right now. He's been stuffing his company's gob with Fannie and Freddie stock with the expectation that their preferred shares would be protected. I'll bet Mr. Gross is in a foul mood today.

One common trait among obscene futures numbers mornings: failure to extrapolate the lines. Sure, the Federal government will guarantee the GSE's debt. But with what? The dollar is going down the crapper again, inflation is going to spike again, banks that own preferred shares of these two GSEs as a steady source of income are going to lose that. To extrapolate the lines on these conditions leads me to believe that bank failures, runaway inflation and higher transportation costs are the price we'll pay for Paulson's dumbass scheme of placing these companies into conservatorship.

Go a bit further and we'll see President Obama's hand being forced with crushing federal debt to abandon single payer healthcare, infrastructure improvements and the like. We see again a Republican dream: creating conditions such that the federal government cannot function.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Norquist et al must be euphoric
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
33. I must respectfully disagree, Ozy.
"This is a socialist scheme." It may appear on it's face to be, but, like all things Supply-side it's not.

It's the death of the Middle-class and the New Deal. That's why Paulson is in such a hurry to do it.

A Shrugger's wet dream... They've been put into conservator-ship to be butchered with all of the choice cuts
going to those who already have too much, yet, yearn for more.

It's the ultimate Corporatist Move. Dismembering the regular people.

Is it any wonder we heard from Greenspan the other day.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #33
41. Where is Tansy Gold?

I'm sure she would have some especially nuanced opinions.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Yeah! Where is Tansy_Gold?
I've seen some recent posts.

Hasn't been here in the SMW, tho.

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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
78. My dear, dear, dear SMW friends
Oh, goodness, the last thing I ever expected to see in SMW was "Where's Tansy Gold?" You've got me all misty eyed now!

The past week has been an exercise in chaos, personally and of course politically, and I confess I spent far too much time (with far too little effect) over in GD-P trying to get my poor ravaged brain around the puke ticket. I'm still not sure I'm rational about it.

Then came yesterday's news about Fred and Fan, and so many other notions and nuances went flying out the window.

Understand, my friends, that I'm not an economist, not a financial whiz of any kind. I look at things with what I think is a more sociological eye and through definitely socialist-tinged lenses. My gut reaction, therefore, is that any kind of government "take-over" of F&F is too little, too late, and money thrown to the wrong wolves.

Not sure how many of you picked up on a post that ran late last week or over the week-end -- when nights and days run together, one tends to lose all track of time -- about the melt-down of what was one of the biggest housing booms in the country: the West Valley outside of Phoenix. That's where I used to live, and yes, it's as horrible as they say. The house I sold in Feb 2006 for $340K is now in foreclosure AGAIN with a listed price of under $160K. That's how bad it is.

I'll be back in a day or so, with whatever "nuanced" insights I can provide.

I love you all!


Tansy Gold

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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #78
91. Hey, I do remember reading about your house

Amazing the fall in value

You are one lucky gal to sell when you did, We love ya too!

:hi:
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #78
97. Don't Be a Stranger, Hear?
And there's no point in trying to wrap anything except yesterday's newspaper around the GOP ticket. It's compost, and not well-rotted, either.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #97
100. Yeah, it's fresh compost.
As in, "What new hell is this?" or something along those lines.

I am off tonight to an artists' meeting, should be back in the world of the living-and-suffering tomorrow. Have been passing along all kinds of info to my son -- he called the other night and screamed, "WHY ARE THERE SO MANY STUPID PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY?" so I sent him the link to Bob Altemyer's "The Authoritarians."

Tansy Gold, getting ready to do battle with social security the end of this week and hoping for a reasonable outcome



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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #33
46. Agree with Prag.
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 08:56 AM by Ghost Dog
"socialize" in this context another buzzword they can spin, and rather insulting to democratic socialism as practised today.

As an example, here's a quick translation from Spain's El País newspaper, describing a speech from Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero delivered at the weekend:

Zapatero will raise minimum pensions 6% in spite of the crisis

Announces fight against unemployment is priority and says he "will not rescue corporations"

The President of the Spanish Government, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, announced yesterday an increase of 6% in minimum pensions for next year and of 25% for the (four-year) legislature. He presented this measure as symbolic of the response from his Government to the economic crisis. "If we have to make a special effort at the present time, we must start with pensions", he said in Rodiezmo (Leon), during a meeting organized by the Socialist Miners' Federation, with which he traditionally opens the political term.

Minimum pensions, which three million people receive, will rise in 2009 by a percentage similar to that of the last legislature. That percentage was between 28% and 36%, according to the type of benefit, Lucia Abellán reports.

Zapatero guaranteed that, in spite of the crisis, he will maintain his social commitments in the areas of unemployment benefits, pensions and assistance for dependent people, and warned that he will not dedicate himself to rescuing corporations. "I am going to dedicate resources to support workers, to those who lose employment, and to pensioners … But don't ask me for money to save businesses of the kind that have been receiving enormous profits through processes that, in many cases, have not been healthy for the economy".



He also announced that, at this stage of crisis, his Government will maintain productive investment that creates jobs, such as in infrastructure, and said that he aims for territorial equilibrium through projects such as high-speed rail in the northwest of Spain. "The country will continue working through the power of investment", he said.



Among the objectives that are to be maintained during the current term, he included assistance for young people to pay rent, international aid to poor countries (with the commitment to reach 0.7% of GDP this legislature) and the promotion of renewable energy. In relation to this last point, he ruled out opening new nuclear power stations.

/Original in Spanish... http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/Zapatero/subira/pensiones/minimas/pese/crisis/elpepunac/20080908elpepinac_2/Tes

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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. I do agree with the balance of Ozy's post, however.
Especially, the last paragraph.

But, TPTB must not be allowed to portray what they are doing as in any way an action of "socialism".

It's taken the Corpratists since the 1930's for the opportunity to destroy the Social Safety Net.

From what I understand, having Fanny and Freddie GSEs was never the intent in the first place. Making
them thus was planting the nascent seed of their eventual downfall. They weren't even really originally
part of the 'New Deal' and were added as a compromise with the Right-Wing later after they had used their
pet Supreme Court to gut most of the original initiatives.

Now that they've achieved their goal... What do they offer as a replacement. Only what their shallow
thinking provides... Nothing.


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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #33
80. I'll agree that killing the New Deal has been the arch-goal all along.
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 03:38 PM by ozymandius
In terms of socialism: there's left-wing socialism and then there's right-wing socialism. For me the definition of left-wing socialism is Keynesian economics: a government stimulus for the economy. Keynesian economics will only work for awhile. But like in the 1930s - it is what we need now the most.*

The action Treasury just undertook was more of the right-wing soviet-style takeover. The intent is to kill the institution as a public service, skeletonize the carcass to benefit political insiders. It is no accident that the person put in charge of oversight is a member of the Carlyle Group.

Kill the middle class? 100% with you there.

Kill the New Deal? 100% too. What they could not take from Social Security, they will attempt to take by other means. Seizing the GSEs and putting under the supervision of a political insider is "other means".

By the way, about left-wing dictatorships and right-wing dictatorships: each is so far to the extreme ends of the political spectrum that they both look the same to me.



*By stimulus, I mean the WPA style projects of FDR's time - not the dumbass stimulus checks.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. Yes, I can agree with that, except to point out that right-wing
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 04:01 PM by Ghost Dog
economic "socialism" is more usually termed fascism, is it not?

And to emphasise that the more democratic socialist countries that have been, I can't say 'flourishing' but certainly 'growing up', off and on, in Europe and now in Latin America (and they're not so very left-wing, except perhaps when viewed through lenses of the USA) have very little to do with dictatorial communism.

I'm not convinced that 'Keynesian remedies' only make sense in emergencies, just as I'm not so convinced that more 'laissez-faire' economics is capable of initiating and above all maintaining levels of productive investment in both physical and human (eg. health, education) infrastructure that an advancing, progressive society in the long run must require.


edit: Hope you had a productive day teaching, BTW. Do note that, like Tansy Gold, I'm more of a sociologist than an economist. I've just been carpenter and painter today. :hi:
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. Indeed.
Fascism: the merging of state and corporate power.

I am not aware of Keynesian policy being practiced since the Nixon administration shut down the last vestiges of it. But still - I feel that some element of Keynes has weighty merit as much as a nation's infrastructure always needs upkeep. That, to me, is the most obvious application of Keynesian principles, where applied distinctly apart from the system of political patronage that is so embedded in American culture.

It is quite admirable what your adopted nation of Spain has managed to acquire for the populist movement.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #80
94. Yes, and they are the same.
Authoritarian, Totalitarian... Many names for the same thing.

Well, we all know what the real solution to this economic problem is...

Bring back the value of labor. It's that simple, but, they will fight it to the death.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
86. Absolutely correct, Prag, but you're too kind
Indeed it is a "corporatist" move, but the euphemism disguises the evil at the core.

This is fascism, a.k.a. "national socialism," a.k.a. naziism.

And we'd best be calling it what is is, or we won't know what hit us.


Back in early 2000, I wrote to my then-friend regarding the upcoming elections that if booooosh somehow got into the White House, he would become our Hitler. "I don't know who will be his Jews, but he will be every bit as disastrous for the U.S. as Hitler was for Germany and the world."

The analogy wasn't quite accurate, because there are fundamental differences in the physiology and the psychology of Germany 1933 and USA 2000, but I do believe we have moved closer to an equivalency in the past eight years.

What the take-over of Fannie and Freddie does accomplishes NOTHING toward fixing hte economy. NOT A FLIPPIN' THING. The economy remains based on the phoney baloney "wealth" of financial manipulations and not on the actual production of consumable goods and services. Unless and until that part of the economy is put to rights, NOTHING will help the housing market, the jobs market, the manufacturing sector, the infrastructure, or even the mood of the populace. Circuses without bread mean nothing.

I wish we had a statistician here to explain how national polling is conducted, someone who can put to rest my own suppositions as to how the demographic is calculated, how the sample is determined, who gets called, who doesn't, what responses are used and which are discarded. I think then we'd have a better picture of what might happen in the next 57 days. But then again, it all really comes down to what happens on that one single day.

So many of us have virtually nothing to fight back with. And as I said on that awful day almost seven years ago, you cannot expect people who have NO HOPE LEFT to act rationally.


Tansy Gold, clinging to rationality as to a life raft



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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #86
98. But We Do Have Such a Person Here!
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/phrigndumass/161

You want to talk to phrigndumass, or P-Man, as I call him. He's posting poll analysis every day for us right here on DU.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #98
102. I know, and I read his analyses faithfully.
But if he's done an explanation, kind of a STATS 101 explanation of HOW polling is conducted, that's what I'd like to see.

What I'm getting at is that there are so many people including here on DU who believe the polls are skewed because no one with a cell phone ever gets called or only pukes answer the phone or whatever. But my understanding of polling has always been -- and I could be totally totally wrong -- that the demographics are determined, then the sample is determined, and then the polling is done to meet the determined sample.

So, AIUI (As I Understand It), it's not just the first 1500 people who answer the phone that are included in the poll. Instead, the pollster determines, say, in the past election we had 40% registered Dems vote, 38% registered pukes, 22% registered Indies. We had 53% women, 47% men. We had 58% whites, 28% blacks, 13% Hispanic/Latino, 1% other. All hypothetical, of course. Then they determine that since there's been a change in voter registration, they'll adjust those numbers acordingly. And they include other details, such as likely voters, those who have never voted, etc. Only THEN do they call and survey in the same proportions. So if they get their 53% women right away, then they won't poll any more women. And so forth, AIUI.

And I know that's horribly over simplified, and IT MIGHT EVEN BE WRONG, but that's the way I understood it. I know I've been called on various surveys, both political and consumer, and they always ask the usual demographic questions -- age, gender, married/single, income level, etc. -- and sometimes they just stop and say, "Thank you for your time but we've already filled our quota in your demographic."


Tansy Gold, who doesn't understand standard deviation and doesn't want to!


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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. He did address some of this
and he's been collecting demographic data for his own analyses. Ask him anything! He can handle language as well as numbers (and never does he deviate, not even a standard!)
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
40. Please check out the Weekend Economist thread


Several of us posted some in-depth articles in the weekend thread about Fannie and Freddie. If you haven't yet read them, click on the link to check them out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x381676

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
72. It's a Bailout. That's Why They Are Happy
But not for long---market's lost most of the opening jump already....

I think that people will try anything to goose out another golden egg.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. Poole: GSE Bailout is "Stopgap", Expects Up to $300 Billion of Losses
(My comment: Remember that Poole was one of the sane good guys on the Fed board. Sadly, his tenure has ended.)

It will be interesting to see if this dose of cold water from former Fed governor William Poole will take any sizzle out of the forceful equity rally (the Nikkei is up 425 points as of this writing, and US stock futures say the US markets will also show an impressive move up). From Bloomberg:

``Some of this is a stopgap to try to prevent the mortgage market from falling apart,'' former Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis President William Poole said on Bloomberg Radio. The federally chartered, shareholder-owned structure, with risks covered by taxpayers, is ``an unacceptable situation,'' he said, projecting the Treasury may need to cover as much as $300 billion of losses..


Bloomberg is running the Poole comment in its headline, so it will catch the eye of traders.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/09/poole-gse-bailout-is-stopgap-expects-up.html
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
43. "These certificates [...] are not gauranteed by the United States and do not constitute a debt...
or obligation by the United States or any of it's agencies or instrumentalities other than Fannie Mae"



ADDENDUM: Unless we change our minds.

(photo stolen from Market Ticker)


Since we're evidently handing out bailouts now, when can I expect mine?
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. It's still a balmy 700 Degrees...
in Hell.

I just checked the weather link.

So, I don't think I'd bother your Loan Officer asking for a quote, just yet.

:D
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #43
54. Oh, you're getting yours right now.
And will continue to get it for quite a while.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. Markets overjoyed at Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae going into conservatorship
Dow futures up over 250!
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. They'll all be happy until their bank fails over this.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Going to be a wild ride today!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
14. Fannie/Freddie takeover bad for community banks

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is likely to cause big problems for hundreds of community banks nationwide and could lead to a new round of bank failures.

That's because many smaller banks had a large amount of funds tied up in the preferred shares of Fannie and Freddie, depending on the dividends for reliable income, and the value of those shares to meet the capital levels required by regulators.

Now the dividends have been scrapped and the share values are in question.

"For many banks it was a safe and steady income stream," said Brian Gardner, senior vice president and chief political analyst for Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, an investment bank that specializes in financial firms. "It's cutting off an important source of income for the banks at time when income is not easy to come by."

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/07/news/companies/fannie_freddie_aftershocks/?postversion=2008090717
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
76. Bloomberg Update #3 Fannie, Freddie Credit-Default Swaps May Be Settled
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ajsxbVS.W2lQ&refer=home

(3 paragraphs or 4?.....let me know and I'll edit as needed)

Investors may be forced to settle contracts protecting more than $1.4 trillion of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bonds against default after the U.S. seized control of the companies in a bid to bolster the housing market.

Thirteen ``major'' dealers of credit-default swaps agreed ``unanimously'' that the rescue constitutes a credit event triggering payment or delivery of the companies' bonds, the International Swaps and Derivatives Association said in a memo obtained by Bloomberg News today. Market makers for the privately traded contracts will discuss how to settle them in a conference call at 11 a.m. in New York, the document said.

``This is a big deal,'' said Sarah Percy-Dove, head of credit research at Colonial First State Global Asset Management in Sydney. ``The market is not experienced at settling a credit event for a name of this size, so it is a bit of an unknown.''

A settlement likely would be the largest in the market's decade-long history. Credit-default swaps on Fannie and Freddie have been among the most actively traded the past few months, according to reports from broker GFI Group Inc. Both companies also are among 125 companies in the benchmark Markit CDX North America Investment Grade Index, the most actively traded contract in credit markets, which investors use to speculate on corporate creditworthiness or to hedge against losses.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #76
99. This Doesn't Sound Very Good
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
16. Washington Mutual Forces Out CEO
Kerry Killinger, who helped build Washington Mutual Inc. into the nation's largest thrift and then presided over its rapid decline, is being ousted as chief executive, making him the latest casualty of the mortgage crisis.

For months, Mr. Killinger had fought off a growing chorus of calls for his removal. Even after Citigroup Inc., Merrill Lynch & Co. and Wachovia Corp. pushed out their chiefs over mortgage-related write-downs, and Mr. Killinger disclosed losses at WaMu of as much as $19 billion, the company's board, dominated by associates and longtime allies, continued to back him.

.....

Succeeding Mr. Killinger will be Alan Fishman, currently chairman of New York commercial mortgage broker Meridian Capital Group. Before joining Meridian in 2007, Mr. Fishman was president and chief operating officer of Philadelphia-based Sovereign Bank, the nation's second-largest thrift.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122081162953607945.html
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
18. Gateway Financial and Midwest Banc have one-third of capital in Fannie and Freddie Preferreds

If you are looking for the fallout from the Fannie and Freddie Nightmare on Wall Street, look no further than Gateway Financial and Midwest Banc. These two regional banks have nearly one-third of their capital tied up in GSE preferred stock, which is now worthless.

On August 29th, Business Week reported that these two regional banks had the largest exposure as a percentage of capital to GSE preferred stock. As preferred shares are now nearly worthless as a result of Fannie and Freddie's conservatorship, these banks may also be effectively bankrupt.

Business week said the following on August 29th.



Ultimately, the losses to shareholders will be determined by how Treasury decides to treat the companies' equity if it intervenes to recapitalize the agencies. The market for preferreds is pricing in the risk of some form of government intervention, with some issues trading for as little as 50 cents on the dollar, compared with around 92 cents on the dollar at the end of June, says Sam Caldwell, an analyst who covers regional banks for Keefe, Bruyette & Woods (KBW).

It's mainly individual investors who have borne the brunt of the losses on the agencies' common stock, but regional banks, insurance companies, and other financial institutions have taken the hit on the devalued preferreds, and those with a substantial portion of their capital tied up in these securities can ill afford to have all their value wiped out under a government bailout. Fannie and Freddie preferreds account for at least 32% of the tangible capital held by two regional banks—Gateway Financial Holdings and Midwest Banc Holdings—and 5% or more for a slew of others, according to an Aug. 25 report by Caldwell.

While he believes large-cap banks have limited exposure to agency preferreds, Caldwell found 38 banks with aggregate exposure of $1.3 billion, and 81 other banks that said they didn't hold any preferreds.

A day of reckoning for losses on the agencies' preferreds could be Sept. 30, when firms will need to mark down the value of the assets on their balance sheets to fair market value. A few regional banks have already taken writedowns for other-than-temporary impairment on the preferreds they hold. Earlier this week, JPMorgan Chase (JPM) said the value of its preferreds has been halved to $600 million this quarter and hinted it will take a charge on those assets when it reports third-quarter earnings.
-Business Week

There are others as well.


Sovereign Bancorp, a regional lender near Philadelphia, holds about $588 million of the securities, about 13 percent of its tangible capital, according to a research report by Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, a securities broker.
-NY Times

There is a lot more exposure here to get a hold of. The Bloomberg article below does a good job of summing up the most vulnerable financial service companies. But, needless to say, Gateway and Midwest Banc are not looking good.

Source
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac: A Damage Report - Business Week
Fannie and Freddie threat to banks - FT
Fannie, Freddie Preferreds Batter Sovereign, Midwest - Bloomberg
Few Stand to Gain on This Bailout, and Many Lose - NY Times
http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2008/09/gateway-financial-and-midwest-banc-have.html
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. 4000 U.S. banks failed in 1933.
I do not in any way believe that we will even come to a fraction of that number of failures. But it will feel like it. Paulson really bumped his head into a wasp nest with this one.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
38. Banks today are so much bigger

One bank today, probably could be compared in size to dozens in 1933. Just look at all the banks that are now rolled up into JPMorgan

5/30/08 Here's an incomplete list of former financial institutions that now comprise what is known as JPMorgan (JPM):

Bank One
Chase Bank
U.S. Trust
Manufacturer's Hanover Trust
Chemical Bank
First Chicago
National Bank of Detroit
First U.S.A
Bear Stearns (BSC)

more...
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/05/s-crisis-vs-current-crisis.html
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
19. Paulson Sanity Check
(echoing my sentiments) Sorry to be a bit heavy on Fannie and Freddie, but this is a historic event.

These statements came in a five paragraph section in a New York Times article:

Mr. Paulson added a mantra of his own: he privately said he didn’t want to “kick the can down the road” and leave the problems for a future administration and Congress to solve....

As possibilities were debated, Treasury officials eventually concluded that if they had to act, the best choice was a conservatorship...

“They called it ‘sticking the companies in a timeout,’ ” said one person with firsthand knowledge of the conversations. “It protects the safety and soundness of the economy but also gives everyone breathing space.”


Now most commentators see a conservatorship as a good bit more radical than the depiction above. But let's take the quotes at face value. Paulson said he didn't want to "kick the can down the road" but settles on a plan that his team called a "timeout".

Wow. No wonder this Administration is so good at Orwellian tactics. They practice them at home.



Please read the comments.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #19
55. To paraphrase a post by Turbineguy from last night.
Poulson would still be in an institution if Reagan didn't turn them all loose back in the '80s.

Now the inmates have taken over.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
22. bloody monday or champagne monday?
various article yesterday are reporting champagne corks popping regarding the fed takeover of freddie/fannie

meanwhile - oil is up on IKE's approach to the gulf coast oil platforms, and OPEC is cutting production

freddie/fannie have failed, and how is this going to "trickled down" the line?

has it occurred to anyone that we have too many companies/corporations out there that are "TOO BIG to fail" and maybe there should be something done to prevent them from becoming lumbering behemoths which crush us all when they fall? ***GASP*** regulation!!!!!!
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
24. I hope today holds your interest.
I am dashing away to work with little chance of checking in. I'll be back around closing time.

:hi:
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Today should be nothing short of Orwellian
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 06:05 AM by TheWatcher
We will hear the Bubble Bots on CNBC tell us how the Economy has been saved and that happy times are here again, because once again God (The Fed, Government, TPTB, or whatever convenient Deity has chosen to grace us with their infinite wisdom) has ridden in on his White Horse and parted the financial seas to save the Predatory Elite from themselves.

As for me, I see this as the possible Beginning Of The End of the Economy as we have known it.

And as Natalie Portman pointed out in possibly the only bearable moment in 'Episode III: Revenge Of The Sith', it has occurred to Thunderous Applause.

But hey, Football Season has started, so I wonder how many of the Rabble will even notice or care, even as the creeping consequences begin to envelope the country like Steven King's "Mist."

My cynicism is terminal today, as you can tell.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #25
34. It is The Beginning of the End of the Economy

I said as much, and more, in the Weekend Economist thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x381676


Several of us posted some in-depth articles in the weekend thread. If you haven't yet read them, click on the link to check them out.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. Thank You for that link
:hi:

I will read them later on this morning. Looks like some really good insight.

It will be good to read some sane points of view on what this all means, instead of the Stepford Cheerleading the Mainstream Financial Media is desperately strobing to the public, in an effort to get them to focus on much more important and pressing matters, such as Tom Brady's Knee Injury.

Most people have no idea what Paulson and these insane criminals have done.

No idea at all.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
81. Yes thanks for pointing to the Weekend Economist, DemReadingDU and Demeter above.
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 03:32 PM by Ghost Dog
I'd like to draw attention to the fine simple summary from fedsron2us:

The credit crisis is simply migrating through all classes of financial instruments

It started out as a problem in the private mortgage market and its associated securities, has moved through the GSE's (it was less than a year ago that it was Fannie and Freddie that were being touted by some as the rescuers who would bail out the housing market) and will ultimately wind up in the Treasury market now that the government has decided that the taxpayers should pick up the costs. Sovereign debt is the end game of the crisis.

At core it is all stunningly simple. The US government, US corporations and US consumers along with some of their counterparts in some other countries in the western world (the UK being the most obvious example) have lived way beyond their means. The revenues they have generated and the wages they have received have been insufficient to support their spending ambitions so they have had to borrow money from foreign lenders to live in the manner to which they have become accustomed. In a way the unraveling has been accelerated by the greed and stupidity of those at the top of US politics and business who have actively encouraged the process whereby workers earning power was suppressed making it inevitable that sooner or later they would have no choice but to default on their debts and thereby start the inevitable unwind.

The problem with this bail out is that is simply trying to shuffle the debt back to very taxpayers who triggered the crisis because they no longer had the means to meet their obligation. The only way that this move can succeed is by printing more money to meet the interest payments that will fall due on future public debt liabilities. Such an attempt to inflate away the losses is bound to meet strong resistance from foreign debt holder who will see the value of their saving and dividends fall. They are either going to demand a hefty interest rate premium for the additional risk or they are simply not going buy treasuries at all. Both results are likely to floor any hopes for a quick recovery in the world economy.


... and add this from a thing called the Harvard Magazine from last year:

The rising risks of the American Dream, on a borrowed dime

by Jonathan Shaw

Consumerism is as American as cherry pie. Plasma TVs, iPods, granite countertops: you name it, we’ll buy it. To finance the national pastime, Americans have been borrowing from abroad on an increasingly stunning scale. In 2006, the infusion of foreign cash required to close the gap between American incomes and consumption reached nearly 7 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), leaving the United States with a deficit in its current account (an annual measure of capital flows to and from the rest of the world) of more than $850 billion. In other words, the quantity of goods and services that Americans consumed last year in excess of what we produced was close to the entire annual output of Brazil. “Brazil is the tenth largest economy on the planet,” points out Laura Alfaro, an associate professor of business administration who teaches a class on the current account deficit at Harvard Business School (HBS). “That is what the U.S. is eating up every year—a Brazil or a Mexico.”

Whether this practice is sustainable—and if not, how it might end—are questions that divide scholars and investors alike. We have borrowed so much from abroad—between half a trillion and a trillion dollars a year for the past six or seven years—that in 2006, our investment balance with the rest of the world (what we pay foreign investors on their U.S. assets versus their payments to us on our investments abroad, historically nearly equal) tipped to became an outflow for the first time in more than 50 years. We are a debtor nation swiftly heading deeper into debt.

The global imbalances created by this dynamic of American borrowing and foreign lending appear stable for now, but if they slip suddenly, that could pose serious dangers for middle- and working-class Americans through soaring interest rates, a crash in the housing market, and sharply higher prices for anything no longer made domestically. Harvard economists and political scientists see possible threats to globalization (the opening of markets and trade that has made the economy a world phenomenon): the risk of rising protectionism; the potential for a world recession if market forces unwind the imbalances too quickly; and even the possibility that political considerations could trump shared economic interests, causing nations to use their international financial positions as weapons.

That last idea—that nations can wield power through their accumulation of currency reserves—is rooted in our own history. When President Dwight D. Eisenhower learned in 1956 that Britain, in collusion with France and Israel, had invaded Egypt without U.S. knowledge, he was infuriated. “Many people remember Suez,” notes Jeffrey Frankel, Harpel professor of capital formation and growth at the Kennedy School of Government (KSG), but few recall “the specific way that Eisenhower forced the British to back down.” At the time, there was a run on the pound sterling and he blocked the International Monetary Fund (IMF) from stabilizing the currency. With sterling on the verge of collapse, says Frankel, “Eisenhower told them, ‘We are not going to bail out the pound unless you pull out of Suez.’” Facing bankruptcy, the British withdrew. This incident, notes Frankel, “marked the end of Great Britain’s ability to conduct an independent foreign policy.”

Putting international politics aside for a moment, “When a country gets a capital inflow , generally speaking things are pretty good,” observes Jeffry Frieden, Stanfield professor of international peace. “It allows you to invest more than you save, and consume more than you produce. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that,” he notes. Firms do it all the time, and so do households. They borrow on the expectation that they will be more productive and better able to pay the money back in the future. The United States, for example, was “the world’s biggest debtor for a hundred years,” Frieden notes, “but the money was used to build the railroads and the canals and the factories and to improve the ports and to build our cities. It was used productively, and it worked. The question to ask now is not, ‘Is the country living beyond its means?’ The question is, ‘Is the money going to increase the productive capacity of the economy?’ Because if it just goes to getting everybody another iPod,” he warns, “then unless iPods make people more productive, there is going to be trouble down the road when the debt has to be serviced.”

/continues... http://harvardmagazine.com/2007/07/debtor-nation.html


... Makes sense to me and it's happening now (and see above #28. China frets at U.S. risk after Fannie/Freddie bailout).
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Great cartoon...
and as always, thanks for everything Ozy! :hi:
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #24
36. Great toon for today!
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
26. A Quick Glance At The Futures This Morning
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 06:15 AM by TheWatcher
S&P 500 +37.90
NASDAQ +39.50
Dow Jones +278.00

Possibly the most devastating economic event of this new century, and they throw the Ultimate Meth Party.

So Basically Wall Street has sent it's message to the rest of us:

"We've Got Ours. Good Luck to the rest of you. You're on you're own."

This is what Economic Fascism looks like.

They destroy the economy. You pay the bill.

Signpost up ahead.

You've Entered "The Bailout Zone."

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
37.  Technical glitch halts LSE trades
Page last updated at 11:24 GMT, Monday, 8 September 2008 12:24 UK

The FTSE 100 share index hit 5,440.20 points shortly after 0900BST and has remained at that level since then.

An incident report on the LSE website said connectivity was suspended at 0915BST. "No one can enter or delete orders at this time," the report said.

The London Stock Exchange said connectivity had been re-enabled at approximately 1145BST.

But the market is not yet fully functioning.

Now that connectivity has been re-established, traders can enter or delete share orders, but the trades cannot yet be executed.

As there are no trades going through, there are no accurate share prices.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7603981.stm
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #37
69. Hmmm.























Frustrating blank screens. Machiavellian timing?
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
45. dollar watch


http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=i

Last trade 79.086 Change +0.218 (+0.28%)

The Coming US Consumption Bust: 12 Reasons Why the US Consumer is in Serious Trouble and Faltering

http://www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-monitor/253481/the_coming_us_consumption_bust_12_reasons_why_the_us_consumer_is_in_serious_trouble_and_faltering

It is by now clear that the shopped-out, saving-less and debt-burdened US consumer is on the ropes and that there will be a significant and persistent contraction of real consumption for the next few quarters. About a dozen separate negative headwinds – to be described in detail in this note - are now hitting the US consumer while the positive effects on consumption of the tax rebates are already fading away.

That rebate boost was supposed to stimulate consumption until august of this year instead after a recovery of retail sales, real personal spending and consumption in April and May real retail sales and real personal consumption spending have fallen already in June and July. So consumers stopped consuming in spite of the tax rebates instead of spending such rebates (so far only 30% of them have been spent). This suggests that real consumption will certainly fall in Q3 and will continue to fall for a while into the middle of 2009. Real consumption did not fall in the 2001 recession and you have to go back to the 1990-91 recession to see a single quarter of negative consumption growth.

Why will consumption keep on falling for quite a while? There are at least a dozen separate factors explaining why we will now see a sharp and persistent fall in real consumption:

...more...


The Bank must act to end the euro’s wild rise

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d224ecfe-7a82-11dd-adbe-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

The downturn of economic activity in the eurozone has come as a surprise to many observers. The credit crisis appeared to be less severe in the eurozone than in the US and, apart from Spain and Ireland, none of the eurozone member countries experienced serious problems in the housing market. Yet the eurozone now comes close to a full-fledged recession. What happened to cause such a rapid and intense deterioration in the eurozone business cycle? The key to answering this question is the exchange rate of the euro.

From the start of 2007 until July 2008 the euro appreciated by about 14 per cent on average against its main trading partner s. This exchange rate shock came on top of a protracted appreciation in the preceding five years. The second shock hitting the eurozone was the doubling of crude oil prices since early 2007.

The effect of the exchange rate shock on the profitability of the eurozone companies that compete internationally has been of the same order of magnitude as the oil price shock. Take an average eurozone exporting company selling a product worth €100 ($144, £81). Energy costs prior to the oil price shock represented €10. Now comes the doubling of oil prices leading to a doubling of the energy costs to €20. This would squeeze profits by the same amount, unless the company could raise its price in foreign markets. But let us assume the exporting firm “priced to market” so as not to lose market share.

Now let us look at the implication of the appreciation of the euro during the same period. Our prototype exporting company has experienced a drop in revenues of 14 per cent; that is, the euro value of its export dropped from €100 to €88. This squeezed profits even more than the doubling of the oil price. Our company recuperated part of the revenue loss because the euro appreciation led to a drop in the euro price of oil, reducing the energy cost. But this effect was small given that the energy costs are a relatively small fraction of the total value of the product.

There are many other effects of these two shocks, but they all point to the same conclusion. Since the start of 2007 the export sector in the eurozone has been hit by a twin shock – an oil price shock and an exchange rate shock – of approximately equal magnitudes. These two shocks squeezed profits of exporting firms twice.

...more...

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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
47. ~09:35 ET: Thar She Blows...
Dow 11,517.41 +296.45 (2.64%)
Nasdaq 2,293.02 +37.14 (1.65%)
S&P 500 1,273.30 +30.99 (2.49%)

10y bond 3.75% +0.02 (0.54%)


As a perfect illustration of Prag's Law: What is bad news for the Middle-class is seen as good news
for the Predatory Welfare Barons.

This is Monumentally Bad for the Common Person. So therefore, expect a Monumental Collective Wall-Street Orgasm.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. ~10:15 EDT: After a short bout with conscience...

Dow 11,478.01 +257.05 (2.29%)
Nasdaq 2,276.25 +20.37 (0.90%)
S&P 500 1,266.72 +24.41 (1.96%)

10y bond 3.73% -0.01 (-0.27%)


Spike resumed.

Gold has lost $2.00 as well...

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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
49. CNBC Saying rally dead cat bounce do to short covering.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. I take it they missed the news on Friday then?
Dead cat bounce... :eyes:

More like the end of an era.

These people get paid for offering these "Insights". Ach!
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Maybe some of them do actually have a clue,
But, their sponsors won't let them tell the public the truth.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. I would assume they've all been thouroughly vetted...
and PITHED like a laboratory frog. To prevent such an eventuality.

Has me wondering, if it's only a single or double pith. I have a Saw-Buck that says it's only a single pith.

Most of them can still get through an hour-long show without wetting themselves or drooling.

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skoalyman Donating Member (751 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #53
77. lol in other words they're still in the ma-trix
:tinfoilhat:
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #49
56. Looks like the shorts have all been processed and the market is falling. n/t
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
57. Wow. They know.
I stopped in on my lunch break expecting to see the markets up 300 pts. minimum. The fact that it isn't speaks volumes. It looks like there are fewer and fewer people deluding themselves anymore.

In 15 minutes I'll have my next class - 21 kids who expect (and deserve) to go to college in 7 years. I promise you that while I'm teaching, I don't let any of my fears show; I'm an extremely positive person. Inside, however, I'm terrified of the world my students and my children are going to be walking into.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I know I'm not. I think Wall Street finally knows I'm right, too.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. The irrational exuberance is wearing off.
Dow sinks to +111 at 12:15.

Last night I was reading an article on Reuters that said the bailout was going to really scare the bears. It looks like the bears are eating the reporter.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #57
62. WSJ Blog: we think the overriding emotion of the market is likely to shift from fear to greed
or at least in the short term.

The WSJ Blog has also a summary of what Blogger's initial reactions are:

“This maneuver is 100% consistent with the government grand plan to boil us like frogs in a pot of debt since, in the govie’s estimation, it appears that too many people have suddenly decided not to jump in the cauldron of their own volition.” –Fil Zucchi, on Minyanville.com.

“A strong rally lasts for a while, but it eventually fades and makes a new lower low; each “rescue rally” has been shorter in duration and weaker in intensity than the immediately prior one.” Barry Ritholtz, The Big Picture, commenting on market reactions to the various weekend bailouts/surprises announced since August 2007

“The Treasury said it will appoint two independent asset managers as financial agents of the U.S. government to manage the a government portfolio of MBS with the goal of ‘promoting stabiliity and protecting taxpayers.’ Which means that the U.S. government could become akin to the single largest hedge fund on the planet. Amazing to think, for anyone that has been in the mortgage market.” –Paul Jackson, Housingwire.com

“For housing, this doesn’t change anything. Housing fundamentals remain the same: excess supply (especially distressed supply), tighter lending standards, and prices are still too high compared to incomes and rents. The possible slightly lower mortgage rates are almost inconsequential compared to supply and price issues. And the economy is still in recession that will linger for some time.” — Calculated Risk

“Call Paulson’s announcement a good but still half step in the right direction. The Treasury has sought to reassure the debt markets, but has done so in a way that tries to maintain the fiction of private ownership of FNM and FRE. In so doing, Secretary Paulson only draws greater and greater attention to the contradictions and strains inside both GSEs.” - Christopher Whalen, Institutional Risk Analytics

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2008/09/08/bloggers-react-the-bailout/


Every single comment on this WSJ entry is all coming from the same sentiment. This is a bailout of the market with the tab being picked up by US taxpayers. No one is fooled.

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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #57
74. I'm sure you're an excellent teacher, Finnfan.
If you weren't up on current events... Well, then I'd complain. :)

I worry also.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #57
79. Looks like they're back drinking again.
Nothing mixes like booze and greed in a casino.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #79
85. Snort!
n/t
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
58. Credit crunch cost: $17.5 trillion so far
Bloomberg News reports that since the credit crunch began to push global markets down from their October 2007 peak, investors have lost $17.5 trillion in value. That's almost three times the $6 trillion in lost value following the collapse of the dot-com bubble in 2000.

Bloomberg developed its calculation by measuring the drop in the MSCI World index. It writes, "More than $17 trillion in global equity value has been wiped out since October. All 10 industries in the MSCI World retreated in 2008 as a drop in lending magnified the global economic slowdown."

To that lost $17 trillion I have added the $500 billion of writedowns and losses at global banks, a writedown figure expected to hit $2 trillion according to Nouriel Roubini.

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/09/08/credit-crunch-cost-17-5-trillion-so-far/

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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
59. 12:17pm - Reality hitting?
Dow 11,337.64 +116.68
Nasdaq 2,243.24 -12.64
S&P 500 1,250.34 +8.03
10-year 3.72% +0.06
Oil $106.80 $0.57
Gold $809.80 $7.00

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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
63. WaMu's chat with regulators
http://dailybriefing.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/09/08/wamus-chat-with-regulators/


Regulators have been in touch with Washington Mutual (WM). The Seattle thrift announced Monday that it entered into a memorandum of understanding with the Office of Thrift Supervision “concerning aspects of the bank’s operations, principally in several areas of its risk management and compliance functions, including its Bank Secrecy Act compliance program.”

As part of the arrangement, WaMu has agreed to provide the regulators with “an updated, multi-year business plan and forecast for its earnings, asset quality, capital and business segment performance.”

The agreement is noteworthy because it comes just three months after WaMu assured investors that it hadn’t been subject of any regulatory action and was “not currently in such discussions with any regulatory agency.” WaMu made that claim in June after Cleveland-based National City (NCC) reached an agreement with its regulators over lending and capital issues, raising fears among investors that regulators were taking a harder look at the risk management practices at banks with substantial exposure to souring mortgage loans. A call to WaMu wasn’t immediately returned.

WaMu said the arrangement “will not require the company to raise capital, increase liquidity or make changes to the products and services it provides to customers.” Nonetheless, the company’s stock sat out Monday’s financial sector rally, even as WaMu announced the departure of longtime CEO Kerry Killinger and the hiring of thrift industry veteran Alan Fishman. WaMu shares dropped 13% to $3.70.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #63
83. WaMu is going to fail, in my opinion. It isn't a question of "if" it's "when"
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 03:54 PM by TheWatcher
They are living on borrowed time.

The only question is, how long can they keep this facade up?

They flat out lied to their customers, investors, shareholders, AND their employees I would imagine.


The agreement is noteworthy because it comes just three months after WaMu assured investors that it hadn’t been subject of any regulatory action and was “not currently in such discussions with any regulatory agency.” WaMu made that claim in June after Cleveland-based National City (NCC) reached an agreement with its regulators over lending and capital issues, raising fears among investors that regulators were taking a harder look at the risk management practices at banks with substantial exposure to souring mortgage loans. A call to WaMu wasn’t immediately returned.


I would imagine things are a hell of a lot worse than we know. We have had a Business Account with them for 8 years, and we closed it last month. I am very glad we did.
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
65. UAL drops 99.9% on false 4yr old bankrupts rumor, has since gained most back
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 11:40 AM by CatholicEdHead
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/ual-says-bankruptcy-rumor-completely/story.aspx?guid={CC693DCA-17A6-4639-A6CA-F6DFD7024961}&dist=TQP_Mod_mktwN

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- UAL Corp. (UAUA:UAUA)
shares were halted Monday following rumors that the airline holding company was filing for bankruptcy, a rumor UAL said was completely untrue. An old news item on United Airlines seeking bankruptcy inadvertently resurfaced on a Web site, triggering a sell-off that wiped out 99% of the company's share price, CNBC reported. Shares of UAL last traded at a penny a share, down 99.9%.


It has since bounced back to around $9/share after starting off a bit over $12/share today.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
66. Le Kasino a medie'.
CLV08.NYM Crude Oil Oct 08 105.85 11:44am ET Down 0.38 (0.36%)<--== 1.
HOV08.NYM Heating Oil Oct 08 2.9866 11:43am ET Up 0.0038 (0.13%)
NGV08.NYM Natural Gas Oct 08 7.561 11:44am ET Up 0.112 (1.50%)
PNV08.NYM Propane Gas Oct 08 1.615 11:44am ET 0.00 (0.00%)
RBV08.NYM RBOB Gasoline Oct 08 2.733 11:43am ET Up 0.0469 (1.75%)

1. Well, they were trying to get something started in the overnight, but the best laid plans of mice and men wins out again. I expect that the other prices will start to drop any moment now, as well.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. Yup.
CLV08.NYM Crude Oil Oct 08 105.70 11:55am ET Down 0.53 (0.50%)
HOV08.NYM Heating Oil Oct 08 2.975 11:55am ET Down 0.0078 (0.26%)<--==:party: 1.
NGV08.NYM Natural Gas Oct 08 7.47 12:22pm ET Up 0.021 (0.28%)
PNV08.NYM Propane Gas Oct 08 1.615 11:44am ET 0.00 (0.00%)
RBV08.NYM RBOB Gasoline Oct 08 2.7234 11:55am ET Up 0.0373 (1.39%)

1. Ladies and germs, After many weeks of resistance, HO has *finally* gone through the magic $3.00/Gallon support! :woohoo:
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Why does Propane never move, there?
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Best as I can figure...
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 12:14 PM by Tandalayo_Scheisskop
Is that supplies are very stable and it trades infrequently.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
73. Pool's OPEN....
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 12:34 PM by AnneD
We're cutting to the chase today. And in light of McCain's convention bump...I am changing my sig line but the photo will remain prophetic.

The Unidentified Floating Objects found in the pool have been identified as the remains of Fannie Mae and her boyfriend Freddie Mac. Remember this is still a crime scene so no tampering with the evidence.

Guess the date the DJIA rolls back to the level it was when the chimp took office-10,578.24. You can revise your dates until the DJIA hits(IMPORTANT CHANGE) 10700 (got to have a cut off). Anyone can join, just give a date and your reasoning for that date. Note the change on the cut off. That should make for a good horse race. I will check the post date/time for last minute posters but those that guessed the date way in advance get extra points. The earlier posters are at the top in the cases of multiple guesses on the same day.


Kicksana.....9/8
MuleBoy(aka hiz honna da mayor).....9/11
Radfringe.....9/11
Nickster.....9/12
GhostDog.....9/18
Ozy.....9/19
AnneD..... 9/19 Like the triple witching thang.
Demeter.....9/22
Ozone man.....9/23
dweller.....9/25
JuneBourder.....9/29
Birthmark....10/10
Mojorabbit.....10/11
Demreading DU.....10/16
TansyGold.....10/13
Roland99.....10/17, you have 2 dates, are they correct?
AnneD....10/24
Neshanic.....10/24
UIA.....10/30
MsLeopard.....10/31
Wordpix.....11/3
Passingfair.....11/4
Ship wrack.....11/5
Wednesdays.....1/16/2009 your optimism is so refreshing.



Remember-you can change the dates as we learn more. If your date isn't on the list, e-mail me and I'll add it the next time I post. I erased expired dates so you can guess again. I post about one a week-more often the closer we get to the number. The winner get the praise and admiration of those on the Stock Watch Thread. We have also kicked in for a years worth of bragging rights and Karl Rove as you own pool boy if we can find Speedos to fit. There is still time to place your bets.....And please-no Reggie bars in the pool.

IMPORTANT ADDENDUM: I believe, as an investor, one day does not a trend make. So as activity coordinator of the pool, additional guesses are allowed should it dip down but pop up above the cut off. Call it the Indian Summer Clause. I personally think that 11000 is their PIN, but the fact that it cannot be pumped up any further anymore points to weakness in the system-for my $0.02.


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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. I'm going to hold off with my new date for a spell, AnneD.
Other than to give a tentative nod to your's and Ozy's triple-witching day. 9/19

I'm of the opinion that now the Great Reset has been punted into the next Administration.

If it should be that somehow McSame/Spider Hole Lady are somehow installed... *sigh* Well,
I'm thinking we should transform the pool to an Apocalypse Watch and start posting the
Rapture Index from over there at the Rapture Ready web site.

Otherwise, if it should be Barack/Joe, I trust Sen. Obama and his people to make the correct moves. :)
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #75
89. We can turn our Pool....
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 04:23 PM by AnneD
into an immersion baptismal font if McCain and Palin are elected.....

Which brings us to our theme....

Shall we gather at the river.

Shall we gather at the river,
Where bright angels he has brought,
With it's crystal tides forever
Flowing by the throne of God


Yes, we'll gather at the river.
The beautiful, the beautiful, river.
Gather with the saints at the river,
That flows by the throne of God


Ere we reach the shining river
Lay we every burden down,
Praise our spirits will deliver
And provide our robe and crown.


Yes, we'll gather at the river.
The beautiful, the beautiful, river.
Gather with the saints at the river,
That flows by the throne of God


Soon we'll reach the shining river,
Soon our pilgimage will cease,
Soon our happy hearts will quiver
With the melody of peace.


Yes, we'll gather at the river.
The beautiful, the beautiful, river.
Gather with the saints at the river,
That flows by the throne of God



- Words & Music: Robert Lowry, 1864

Robert Lowry wrote:
One afternoon in July, 1864, when I was pastor at Hanson Place Baptist Church, Brooklyn, the weather was oppressively hot, and I was lying on a lounge in a state of physical exhaustion…My imagination began to take itself wings. Visions of the future passed before me with startling vividness. The imagery of the apocalypse took the form of a tableau. Brightest of all were the throne, the heavenly river, and the gathering of the saints.
I began to wonder why the hymn writers had said so much about the “river of death” and so little about the “pure water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and the Lamb.” As I mused, the words began to construct themselves. They came first as a question of Christian inquiry, “Shall we gather?” Then they broke in chorus, “Yes, we’ll gather.” On this question and answer the hymn developed itself. The music came with the hymn.


Part of this hymn was sung in the 1985 Academy Award winning movie, “Trip to Bountiful.” It was also sung at the funeral of American Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas



http://synergy_2.tripod.com/lyrics/gather1.html

So perfect in so many ways......
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #89
101. I'll See Your River and Raise You One Balm in Gilead
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 06:37 PM by Demeter
Chorus:

There is a balm in Gilead
To make the wounded whole;
There is a balm in Gilead
To heal the sin-sick soul.

Some times I feel discouraged,
And think my work’s in vain,
But then the Holy Spirit
Revives my soul again.
(Chorus)

If you can’t preach like Peter,
If you can’t pray like Paul,
Just tell the love of Jesus,
And say He died for all.
(Chorus)

And 9/22 is my date and I'm sticking with it. Unless it passes without incident, of course!
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #101
104. I thought there was a bomb in Gilead....
And I'll see you a

Down By the Riverside


Gonna lay down my sword and shield
Down by the riverside
Down by the riverside
Down by the riverside
Gonna lay down my sword and shield
Down by the riverside
Ain't gonna study war no more.


http://www.scoutsongs.com/lyrics/downbyriverside.html

and raise you a Wade in the Water

(Chorus)
Wade in the water.
Wade in the water, children.
Wade in the water.
God's gonna trouble the water.

Well, who are these children all dressed in red?
God's a-gonna trouble the water
Must be the children that Moses led
God's a-gonna trouble the water.

Chorus

Who's that young girl dressed in white
Wade in the Water
Must be the Children of Israelites
God's gonna trouble the Water.


Chorus

Jordan's water is chilly and cold.
God's gonna trouble the water.
It chills the body, but not the soul.
God's gonna trouble the water.

Chorus

If you get there before I do.
God's gonna trouble the water.
Tell all of my friends I'm coming too.
God's gonna trouble the water.

Chorus

http://www.songsforteaching.com/folk/wadeinthewater.htm



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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #73
87. I'm going to go with 11/1 on this one.
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 04:17 PM by TheWatcher
I THINK they have bought themselves a few weeks with this BS, but to be honest, I'm being EXTREMELY conservative with that pick, because underneath all the spin, it is CLEAR things are beginning to fall apart everywhere except the fantasy land that is Wall Street.

It is important to note the pattern of these wonder rallies and miracle "The Economy Is Saved and The Crisis Is Over, Now STFU And Go Back To American Idol And Monday Night Football." events.

Everytime we reach a Critical Point where it is obvious we are going to have a Waterfall event, TPTB ride forth on their White Horses and announce some new plan, new scheme, new spin or rumor, or new jawboning magic to magically lift the market and announce that once again, the day is saved.

The first one was in January, with the Bear Stearns Bailout, which kept the Meth Party going for another 6 months, until July, when the when the wheels came off and once again the whispers and signs pointing to collapse once again began to creep over everything like Stephen King's "Mist". Then on July 15th, the bullshit begin anew, and the Meth Party then went forth, but they never managed to break through 11,800, and the market was subjected to the wildest and most nonsensical swings we have seen in recent memory. That lasted until September 4, about 7 weeks.

Now the Government has, "for our own good", :eyes: played what would seem to be another of it's Final Cards and put FNM and FRE into conservatorship, in hopes of engineering one Final Kegger to get everyone as drunk as possible before they must play their next card to "Save The 1%" or "Save The Penthouse."

I think they've bought themselves to the 1st Of November, but who knows. Maybe they've only bought 3 weeks, or just a few weeks. What we do know is that this current Happy, Happy, Joy-Joy day is about as fake as a three-dollar bill.

NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

The sad thing is there is nothing any of us can do about it.

We just have to sit back and watch everything burn.

As Andrei Bonovia said to Captain Ramius in "Hunt For Red October: "You arrogant ass. You've killed *US*!"
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #73
92. Put me down for 1/22/2009
I think a couple days after inauguration will be the time it will be let loose.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
82. Closing numbers: volume has never been this high in modern times
Dow 11,510.74 Up 290.43 (2.59%)
Nasdaq 2,269.76 Up 13.88 (0.62%)
S&P 500 1,267.79 Up 25.48 (2.05%)
10-Yr Bond 3.665% Up 0.005

NYSE Volume 7,329,060,500
Nasdaq Volume 2,602,559,500

4:15 pm : Monday marked a sharply higher, and volatile, start to the trading week, fueled by the federal government's takeover of mortgage giants Fannie Mae (FNM 0.70, -6.34) and Freddie Mac (FRE 0.89, -4.21).

The S&P 500 ended the session with a large 2.1% gain following a late-session surge in buying interest. Eight of the ten economic sectors advanced in heavy trading volume. The Nasdaq Composite (+0.6%) trailed its counterparts, largely due to the underperformance of large-cap tech stocks.

With regard to the bailout, the Treasury determined that Fannie and Freddie did not have adequate capital, prompting the federal government's intervention because the organizations are believed to be "too big to fail." The companies will be placed under a conservatorship, and the Treasury will provide up to $200 billion in capital. The potential taxpayer cost of the bailout has not been determined.

The takeover of Fannie and Freddie come at the expense of common and preferred stock shareholders. Fannie and Freddie fell 90% and 83% respectively, on the view that little or no equity will be left for common stock shareholders.

Financials as a whole rose 4.6%, however, benefiting from the belief that the bailout will ease the current credit market turmoil. There were some notable financial laggards, though. Lehman Brothers (LEH 14.02, -2.18) gave up an early advance on continued speculation that the company needs capital. Washington Mutual (WM 4.02, -0.25) fell 6%. WaMu reported early in the morning that it ousted its CEO and agreed to give more updates to its regulator.

Stocks related to the housing market saw the largest gains. The homebuilding (+11.6%), building products (+8.4%) and home improvement retail (+5.6%) groups all rallied.

Some of the largest tech companies came under selling pressure on no specific catalyst, which caused the tech sector (+0.5%) to underperform on a relative basis. Google (GOOG 419.93, -24.32), Oracle (ORCL 19.25, -0.82) and Apple (AAPL 157.99, -2.19) all declined.

The stock market saw some volatile action after headlines crossed the wires that incorrectly said UAL Corp. (UAUA 10.92, -1.38), parent company of United Airlines, filed for bankruptcy protection. UAL quickly said the report was false, saying the report came from a 2002 article. UAL fell as much as 76% and then recovered to a loss of 11%.

In corporate news, Boeing (BA 63.84, +0.85) posted a gain despite news that the aerospace company was unable to reach a labor agreement with its largest union on wages, pensions, job security and healthcare costs. As a result, 26,800 machinists have gone on strike.

Altria Group (MO 20.94, -0.01), the largest U.S. cigarette company, is acquiring smokeless tobacco manufacturer UST (UST 68.73, +1.18) for $69.50 per share, or $11.7 billion, including debt.

In commodity trading, crude oil settled nearly unchanged at $106.26 per barrel after climbing as much as 3.5% in earlier trade on speculation of Hurricane Ike's potential impact on Gulf of Mexico production. The retreat from session highs coincided with gains in the dollar, which rose 0.6% against a basket of world currencies. DJ30 +289.78 NASDAQ +13.88 NQ100 -0.30% R2K +2.0% SP400 +2.1% SP500 +25.48 NASDAQ Adv/Vol/Dec 1672/2.59 bln/1105 NYSE Adv/Vol/Dec 2021/1.69 bln/1094
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #82
88. The volume WAS amazing.
All sheep are being led to the slaughter.

Just.....Astonishing.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #88
93. I've had this sinking feeling in my gut all day

horrible sense of foreboding

it's just so hard to explain what we see is happening, but probably 95% have not a clue
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
95. Based on the Peaks and Valleys on the Charts
the hamsters must be dead tired today.
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