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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 09:18 PM
Original message
‘Americans out to get our oil’: Brazil frets as US revives Fourth Fleet
Source: Reuters

Saturday, September 20, 2008
‘Americans out to get our oil’: Brazil frets as US revives Fourth Fleet

SAO PAULO: Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva warned on Thursday that the resurrection of a US naval fleet in Latin America may signal that Washington covets huge new oil reserves off Brazil’s coast.

The US Navy is re-establishing the US Fourth Fleet, which was decommissioned 58 years ago, to combat drug trafficking, provide disaster relief and help with peacekeeping missions in Latin America and the Caribbean. But the return of the fleet has been met with widespread scepticism in Brazil and elsewhere in the region, where many see a US military presence as a threat to sovereignty.

“The (Brazilian) Navy plays an important role in protecting our subsalt reserves, because the men of Fourth Fleet are almost there on top of the subsalt areas,” Lula said in a speech inaugurating a new oil platform in southern Brazil. “Our Navy has to be the guardian of our offshore oil platforms to protect our patrimony, because before you know it some wise guy will come along and say: ‘This is mine, it’s at the bottom of the ocean anyway, so it’s mine.’”

~snip~
Just last week, Brazil deployed warships, fighter jets and thousands of troops off its southern coast, starting two weeks of military manoeuvres aimed at showing the world it can defend its newfound oil wealth. Brazil is also negotiating a strategic defence alliance with France that would include the construction of a nuclear-powered submarine to patrol its oil-rich waters. reuters

Read more: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\09\20\story_20-9-2008_pg4_9
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Guess that sub
will give them a fer hundred mil or a bil to sink money in to. The 4th fleet is going to pump their oil out, or just spin up the base.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. So much chest thumping in these posts from you. Is it compensation? n/t
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. No it's just good old fashioned
douchebaginess.
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. Vigorous disagreement with a fellow DUer's views is good, but the personal insults have to go. n/t
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Not when the DUer regularly dispenses debunked rightwing lies.
NT!

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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Hey did you hear hugo kicked out HRW director...Oh wait
List the lies, please.

This is a bullshit call BTW, so now is the time to shine..

Debunk away! Or feel free to pm an apology.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. ad hominem
a sad approach. The 4th fleet is not there to pump their oil. He is keeping his base happy.

We buy their shit, so next time you fly in an Embraer remember who we buy them from..

My company does lots of business with them, tens of millions. The EU manufacturers tend to source from europe? Even if the price is higher, Brazil, not so much. They are not stupid.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't care what
country is friendly or unfriendly in our corporate definition of "national interests" the peak oil period is a needed boost to most of those countries to help them thrive or survive after the epoch ends. It is a special boost to help the global community through a crisis. The bonanza should not be squandered by fighting over it and ripping it off uselessly to the US. In the end it will ruin us as well. Fat lot of good the wealth has done for most Louisianans or Texans or their infrastructure.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. hey, that oil has made BushCo cronies rich in La. and Tx, don't forget
even if the rest of the populace has no homes.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. Fleets are just paper commands
ships, Marines, and aircraft just move in and out of them, or are CHOPed (change operational command) in and out of them.
This really does not mean so much, just that there is a particular command for the region now.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Fleets have an assigned HQ staff and warplanning staff
they are not just paper; they are expensive to form, and entail a host of directives, operating procedures and battle planning unique to that fleet. The Fourth Fleet will exist outside of the individual ships and military assets that it controls from time to time. Bush and the Pentagon formed the Fourth Fleet with a mission purpose in mind; I suspect it involves some updated view of the Monroe Doctrine, and not this "fighting drug traffickers" nonsense.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. I agreee it is nonsense
you will get NO argument from me on that, but this is just a shift from other fleets which were doing the same thing, that is all I am pointing out
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MrBlueSky Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. What a sad turn of events this is becoming...
In our lust for others' oil, we may be sacrificing our friendships with other countries, I worry.

Brazil is, and always has been, our best friends in all of Latin America. The Brazilian people warmly welcome American tourists and some even try to practice their English with you! I know... I find this on each of my trips to Salvador, Bahia, Brazil... including the one I recently completed last month.

But, these warm-hearted people can become fickle if they think their good American friends are threatening them. Even the best intentions can be interpreted as a threat to sovereignty. We Americans must be very careful to show our good intentions with the 4th Fleet.

Personally, I would recommend port calls replete with tours of the ships and facilities for the Brazilian people. This should include showing our emergency provisions that they may need and use someday. This way, the warships would become instruments of diplomacy, which is something the Brazilian people would approve of and respond to positively.

But peacekeeping in the South Atlantic????? Brazil concluded its last war in the 1870's with Argentina. The wars it has since fought was to assist the Americans! Indeed, the most recent assistance war Brazil fought (and is fighting now) is in Afghanistan with the UN contingency!

Brazil is far more peaceful (in terms of warmongering) than the USA! (Of course, when it comes to gangs and street crimes, they are much worse than us!)
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. plenty of bull in that article
it's a PAKISTANI paper

1) It's true that Lula voiced concern :

“I am worried about the US 4th Fleet, because it is going to go exactly where we have just found oil,” Lula told Argentinean journalists reporting on President Cristina Fernandez´visito to Brazil.

Lula said he does not understand why the US government is sending its 4th Fleet on a medical aid mission, when neither Brazil nor any Latin American government have asked for such help.

“On the other hand, our Armed Forces are fragile from the point of view on equipments. And Brazil is going to rebuild its defense industry,” he stated.

Lula advocates for the creation of a South American Defense Council with a political conception to safaguard the region´s security.

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={96D342FB-2DE7-4FA0-8FBB-54B231C735B3})&language=EN

2) There is no "strategic defence agreement" with France and no plans of that either. The only strategic defense agreement France has is NATO.

"I told the Brazilian president we are ready for a Scorpene submarine to be built in Brazil. In relation to the fighter planes, we are ready to organize technology transfers so that the helicopters and combat planes, especially the Rafale, are made in Brazil," he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN12257185

which means that it is going to take YEARS before the Brazilians can have a modern defense.

the alliance Sarkozy is talking about is a trade agreement, not a defense pact, which is completely different.

besides the Scorpène is a diesel-electric submarine, not an atomic one. Chile has bought two.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpene

3) Lula is trying to motivate his purchases for the home opinion. The 4th fleet isn't going to "steal oil". The riggs haven't been built yet (if ever). The probable presence of the 4th fleet (which is mostly aimed at the Caribbean area) is more to be seen in relation to the Russian plans of fleet displaying outside Venezuela.

The Brazilian "oil fields" are situated 275 km outside Sao Paulo and have yet to be confirmed.

http://www.offshore-mag.com/display_article/334452/9/ARTCL/none/none/1/Pre-salt-discoveries-continue-in-Brazilhttp://europe.theoildrum.com/node/3853

I call BS or at least irresponsible media spin
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. It's a Reuters newswire article, Tocqueville. What's with your disinformation
that it's Pakistani?

The thing to watch is whether our benighted Corpo/fascist newspapers and TV/radio monopolies pick it up, and inform the people of the U.S. that Brazil fears a U.S. attack on its oil fields. The source is Reuters--a European news agency--but will only a Pakistani paper print it? Our Corpos have black-holed plenty of other news items about South America (and other regions) that you can only find by time-consuming research into alternative news sources and foreign news outlets. We are a very disinformed people. This should be our focus--and the object of our ire--rather than being distracted by sneering remarks about the one newspaper that we know printed this article.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. this is not a reuters newswire, check it by yourselves
somebody picked up a bunch of quotes (maybe coming from reuters) and added a lot of spin an outright lies, then added "reuters" after the dot. A reuters newswire has normally a time stamp and the name of the columnist. I refer to the original reuters article in my post, look for yourself.

anyway

facts remains facts

1) France hasn't engaged in a strategic DEFENSE agreement with Brazil.
2) the "scorpène" IS NOT A NUCLEAR SUBMARINE
3) Lula's "oil fields" are so far VIRTUAL. Even if proven existing, it will take years before they are exploited.
4) their geographic location is far off the planned zone of "intervention" of the 4th fleet.

This article spins on loose ends about some Lula spin for the home opinion. The purpose of the Pakistani paper is only to depict the US in a bad light. The US foreign policies are bad enough, reporting them good enough. You don't have to INVENT things.

Talk about disinformation.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Please compare the two stories. The original one, with
Edited on Sun Sep-21-08 08:05 AM by Judi Lynn
published in the DailyTimes, and the 2nd one published directly online by Reuters:
‘Americans out to get our oil’: Brazil frets as US revives Fourth Fleet

SAO PAULO: Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva warned on Thursday that the resurrection of a US naval fleet in Latin America may signal that Washington covets huge new oil reserves off Brazil’s coast.

The US Navy is re-establishing the US Fourth Fleet, which was decommissioned 58 years ago, to combat drug trafficking, provide disaster relief and help with peacekeeping missions in Latin America and the Caribbean. But the return of the fleet has been met with widespread scepticism in Brazil and elsewhere in the region, where many see a US military presence as a threat to sovereignty.

“The (Brazilian) Navy plays an important role in protecting our subsalt reserves, because the men of Fourth Fleet are almost there on top of the subsalt areas,” Lula said in a speech inaugurating a new oil platform in southern Brazil. “Our Navy has to be the guardian of our offshore oil platforms to protect our patrimony, because before you know it some wise guy will come along and say: ‘This is mine, it’s at the bottom of the ocean anyway, so it’s mine.’”

Since state-run energy company Petrobras surprised the oil world last November by announcing the world’s second-biggest oil find in 20 years, conspiracy theories have abounded in Brazil that a foreign power might try to snatch the country’s offshore oil wealth. US officials have tried to assuage those concerns, stressing that the Fourth Fleet will not be an offensive force and that it will respect Brazil’s maritime claims.

Just last week, Brazil deployed warships, fighter jets and thousands of troops off its southern coast, starting two weeks of military manoeuvres aimed at showing the world it can defend its newfound oil wealth. Brazil is also negotiating a strategic defence alliance with France that would include the construction of a nuclear-powered submarine to patrol its oil-rich waters. reuters
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:Xazig1rRmeYJ:dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp%3Fpage%3D2008%255C09%255C20%255Cstory_20-9-2008_pg4_9+%E2%80%98Americans+out+to+get+our+oil%E2%80%99:+Brazil+frets+as+US+revives+Fourth+Fleet+Daily+Times.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

~~~~~~~~~~~
New fleet may mean U.S. covets Brazil's oil: Lula
Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:06pm EDT
SAO PAULO (Reuters) - Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva warned on Thursday that the resurrection of a U.S. naval fleet in Latin America may signal that Washington covets huge new oil reserves off Brazil's coast.

The U.S. Navy is reestablishing the U.S. Fourth Fleet, which was decommissioned 58 years ago, to combat drug trafficking, provide disaster relief and help with peacekeeping missions in Latin America and the Caribbean.

But the return of the fleet has been met with widespread skepticism in Brazil and elsewhere in the region, where many see a U.S. military presence as a threat to sovereignty.

"The (Brazilian) Navy plays an important role in protecting our subsalt reserves, because the men of Fourth Fleet are almost there on top of the subsalt areas," Lula said in a speech inaugurating a new oil platform in southern Brazil.

"Our Navy has to be the guardian of our offshore oil platforms to protect our patrimony, because before you know it some wise guy will come along and say: 'This is mine, it's at the bottom of the ocean anyway, so it's mine.'"

Since state-run energy company Petrobras surprised the oil world last November by announcing the world's second-biggest oil find in 20 years, conspiracy theories have abounded in Brazil that a foreign power might try to snatch the country's offshore oil wealth.

U.S. officials have tried to assuage those concerns, stressing that the Fourth Fleet will not be an offensive force and that it will respect Brazil's maritime claims.

Just last week, Brazil deployed warships, fighter jets and thousands of troops off its southern coast, starting two weeks of military maneuvers aimed at showing the world it can defend its newfound oil wealth.

Brazil is also negotiating a strategic defense alliance with France that would include the construction of a nuclear-powered submarine to patrol its oil-rich waters.
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN1827567620080918

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Poster, please! Check yourself. Don't even dream of not apologizing to Peace Patriot.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On edit, adding, for your reading pleasure, a bonus article:
May 24 / 25, 2008
World War II to the Present

U.S. Fourth Fleet in Venezuelan Waters
By NIKOLAS KOZLOFF

With U.S. saber rattling towards Venezuela now at its height, the Pentagon has decided to reactivate the Navy’s fourth fleet in the Caribbean, Central and South America.

It’s a bold move, and has already stirred controversy within the wider region.

The fleet, which will start patrolling in July, will be based at the Mayport Naval Station in Jacksonville, Florida and will answer to the U.S. Southern Command in Miami. Rear Admiral Joseph Keran, current commander of the Naval Special Warfare Command, will oversee operations. About 11 vessels are currently under the Southern Command, a number that could increase in future. The Navy plans to assign a nuclear-powered air craft carrier, USS George Washington, to the force.

It’s difficult to see how the revival of the Fourth Fleet is warranted at the present time. The move has only served to further antagonize Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, already rattled by a U.S. navy plane’s violation of Venezuelan airspace over the weekend. In the long-term, the Pentagon’s saber rattling may encourage South American militaries to assert great independence from Washington, a trend which is already well under way as I discuss in my new book, Revolution! South America and the Rise of the New Left (Palgrave-Macmillan).

~snip~
Unlike the Second World War, when many South Americans welcomed the Fourth Fleet in Caribbean waters, some view the current U.S. naval presence as a veiled threat directed at the region’s new Pink Tide countries. In an interview with Cuban television, Bolivian President Evo Morales remarked that the U.S. naval force constituted "the Fourth Fleet of intervention."

Cuba’s former leader Fidel Castro has asked why the U.S. has sought to revive the Fourth Fleet at this precise moment. Writing in the Cuban newspaper Granma, Castro suggested that the move constituted a return to U.S. gunboat diplomacy. Castro, whose island nation confronted a U.S. naval blockade during the Cuban missile crisis of 1962, remarked "The aircraft carriers and nuclear bombs that threaten our countries are used to sow terror and death, but not to combat terrorism and illegal activities.”
http://www.counterpunch.org/kozloff05242008.html

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. As Peace Patriot explained to you, you should have checked to see who published it originally.
Here's the same article with a different URL:
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN1827567620080918
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
8. Looks like they are going to sell oil for weapons. They can't rely on the Russian navy to be there
'show boating'
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4dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
9. Resource wars will have this happen...
This is not unexpected with Mexico's oil production falling faster than Lehman's stock..
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JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. Sounds like crying wolf to me
I seriously doubt the US will simply invade Brazil and run off with their oil.

Sensationalism at it's best.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Especially since the US plan to invade Iraq and run off with their oil
isn't working out as planned.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
13. The Bushwhacks slaughtered 100,000 innocent people in one night of "shock & awe" bombing
and about a million total to bludgeon Iraq into submission and get their oil. Little babies, pregnant women, old grammas and grampas, and every other kind of person shredded, smashed to bits, heads, limbs blown off, guts flying in the air, the half dead screaming in agony. They are cold-blooded killers. They will do anything--ANYTHING--to get control of the world's dwindling oil supply.

South America holds the biggest oil reserves in the western hemisphere, and it is--as Lulu points out--essentially undefended oil (vis a vis the U.S. military). To Bushwhacks, these oil reserves must look like "sitting ducks," there for the taking.

The most vulnerable reserves are in Venezuela's northern province of Zulia on the Caribbean, Ecuador's coastal oil reserves on the Pacific, and the new Brazilian fields off its Atlantic coast. Argentina also had a big oil find recently. These countries have some defensive capabilities, but would likely lose in a one-on-one straightup battle with the U.S. military. Their strongest defenses are, a) having real democracies (unlike our own), and b) economic and political unity (acting together they have a lot of clout).

South America has only one enemy--the U.S. U.S./Bushwhack continent-wide hostility and bad intentions are plainly visible now, in Bolivia--where the Bushwhacks have supported, funded and organized the white separatists in the gas and oil rich eastern provinces, who, over the last few weeks, went on a rampage of rioting, machine-gunning 15-30 peasant farmers, trashing government buildings, beating up anyone they thought was a supporter of Evo Morales' national government, blowing up a gas pipeline, seizing airports and other mayhem, in their effort to split off the eastern provinces into a fascist mini-state in control of Bolivia's main resources. Evo Morales threw U.S. ambassador Philip Goldberg out of Bolivia for his collusion with these murderers and rioters.

This was the first move in a war strategy--likely designed by Donald Rumsfeld--that involves instigating civil war in three countries--Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela. Ecuador's president, Rafael Correa, has spoken of the meetings of these fascist groups and coordination of the three-country strategy. Bolivia and Venezuela are the most vulnerable to it--Bolivia because of the rich white racists in the eastern provinces (Bolivia is a largely indigenous country), and Venezuela in Zulia, which contains Venezuela's main oil reserves, which is adjacent both to the Caribbean (vulnerable to the U.S. 4th Fleet) and Colombia ($6 BILLION in U.S. military aid, through Bushite fingers; fascist thugs and drug traffickers running the government; out of control rightwing death squads murdering union leaders and other leftists), and where the rightwing presidential candidate is now governor. Ecuador is somewhat less vulnerable, but it is adjacent to Colombia, and the U.S./Colombia, earlier this year, did a bombing/raid against Ecuador to kill the chief FARC hostage negotiator, Raul Reyes (who was about to release Ingrid Betancourt and other hostages), nearly causing a war between Ecuador and Colombia.

Correa has an 80% approval rating--one of the highest of the new leftist presidents (only Paraguay's new leftist president is higher, with a whopping 92% approval rating). Morales won 67% of the votes in a recent referendum on his presidency. Chavez's approval rating runs about 60% (he won the last presidential election with 63% of the vote, but then lost a vote on constitutional reforms, by a hair, last December; he nevertheless remains popular). I mention approval ratings because they are a gage of the strength of these countries' democracies--the transparency of their elections, the sturdiness of their government and political institutions, and the loyalty of their people.

The Bushwhacks, of course, have been out for the Chavez government from the beginning--with every kind of attempted subversion, including support of a violent rightwing military coup attempt in 2002, a crippling oil professionals' strike and a Bush-USAID funded recall election. Their efforts to demonize Hugo Chavez as a "dictator" (and, lately, a "terrorist lover," a friend of drug traffickers, and corrupt) have been intense and relentless, and are being escalated. They also recently extended their psyops/disinformation campaign to Rafael Correa (Ecuador) and, over the last few weeks, to Evo Morales (Bolivia). Wherever there is oil, that they think they can take, they start with lies, and--as we know--end with brutal force and mass death.

Checkmated on attacking Iran, they have now turned their sights to South America. And you gotta wonder, with four months left to their junta (presumably; hopefully), why they seem to be starting a new death and mayhem project to steal other peoples' oil.

I think that's what we just saw this week, with the mayhem in Bolivia--the start of Oil War II-South America. Who will carry it out? McBush (Diebolded into power)? Obama (say, presented with a fait accompli war, he's trapped into it, or even supports it)? Is this a "Washington consensus" war--an agreed upon goal of our national political establishment? Or is it some Bushwhacky thing--a last-ditch effort to regain global corporate predator control of oil fields in this hemisphere--that will be abandoned in the change of administrations? Or--a third possibility--will this war be pursued with 'private' means--say, with the billions stolen from us in Iraq, the creation of private armies (Blackwater is active in Colombia), the recruitment of Colombian paramilitary death squads and local fascist militias, perhaps coordinated by Rumsfeld? In the latter case, they would use the U.S. military opportunistically, if they could get it, but proceed with the private war, with or without direct U.S. government support.

In Dec 07, Rumsfeld published an op-ed in WaPo mainly about Chavez, in which he urges "swift action" by the U.S. in support of "friends and allies" in South America. Whatever does he mean? Sure sounds like U.S. military support for these fascist cells within Bolivia, Venezuela and Ecuador, upon their declaring their "independence" from their national governments. (His title: "The Smart Way to Defeat Tyrants Like Chavez." It's mostly about the need for the Colombian "free trade" deal for economic warfare against Venezuela. But he also mentions this "swift action" thing.)

There are a whole lot of reasons to believe that grabbing South American oil, and smashing South American democracy, is a "Washington consensus" strategy, not isolated to the Bushwhacks. The World Bank/IMF (first world loan sharks) have been ousted from the region. The South Americans have formed a "Common Market" (UNASUR) without the U.S. The continent has been swept by a huge leftist tide which includes goals of Latin American self-determination and social justice. That tide is moving north--with a leftist government elected in Nicaragua, leftist governments likely to be elected in El Salvador and Panama within six months, Honduras rebelling against the Bushwhacks and siding with the South American leftists, a remarkably progressive government just elected in troubled Guatemala, and a leftist coming within a hairsbreadth--0.05%--of getting elected president in Mexico in 2006.

Rebellion is in the air. It could even hit the U.S. And our very, very, very corrupt national political establishment is much more aware of this than our Corpo/fascist news media lets on. They keep our people ignorant. But they know.

So, are the Bushwhacks the vanguard of our national political establishment--as they surely have been with regard to Iraq--and they are laying the groundwork for Oil War II, with the fascist insurrection in Bolivia, and the relentless stream of lies about Chavez and other leaders? Or, is this war plan just the death throes of a bankrupt lot of heinous war criminals, with their maniacal dreams of more power?

And, if this is a "Washington Consensus" war plan, are they going to add Lula da Silva to their list, and target Brazil's oil as well?

Lula da Silva, who recently, said, of Chavez: "You can criticize Chavez on a lot of things, but not on democracy."

He is not following the global capitalists' party line, by any means. He has had Chavez's back all along. They are friends and allies. This is the most worrisome development, to our Corpo politicians, I'm sure--South American unity.

One very interesting aspect of this situation is the evidence of rightwing agreement with the left, in Latin America, on at least one item: the sovereignty of Latin American countries. There is evidence of it on the Brazilian right. There was fascinating evidence of it on Mexico's right, when Mexico's rightwing/Corpo president publicly lectured Bush on this issue, in 2007, using Venezuela as an example. Apparently, an assassination plot against Chavez, hatched in the Colombian military, and coordinated with Bushwhack aid to rightwing groups in Venezuela, had been exposed, and all the Latin American leaders knew about it--although we were kept in the dark, of course. Thus, this rightwing president brings it up with Bush, in public! Amazing. Really, my jaw dropped.

With the U.S. economy in meltdown, we can be sure that our Corpo politicians are wondering who to plunder next. Latin America has always been the fallback resource: oil, gas, forests, cheap labor (not to mention the "war on drugs" boondoggle). In the past, we have simply gone in and smashed democratic governments and installed heinous dictators, to do the bidding of our Corpos. It's not going to be so easy this time. (They may need Obama to soften the situation up first. Cynical me.) In fact, I think they will fail--if that is their plan--to take Zulia and whatever else they can get. I do think Zulia is the primary target, because it is on the Caribbean, and they could use that oil then to bully and blackmail governments and peoples, and try to create a leftist-free zone in the arc of the Caribbean/Central America, including the "hump" of South America (Colombia, northern Venezuela).

The Corpos are quite desperate, as all can now see. And they cannot maintain their trillion dollar 'bail-outs' and their trillion dollar Mideast wars without more oil, and more profit from somewhere. And there sit major oil reserves, in our own hemisphere, essentially undefended, except by the strength of transparent vote counting and the election of genuine representatives of the people. And there sit gas reserves as well, and minerals, and fresh water supplies, and zillions of board feet of prime virgin hardwoods in the Amazon, and a vast population of poor people--impoverished by "free trade" and the World Bank--in need of jobs on any terms. You do the math. Will we see our drafted sons and daughters killing peasants in the Amazon jungles and the Andes mountains before this decade is out? I think the odds are dismally high that we will. And I think we will lose--and then become (as we are fast becoming anyway) the biggest "banana republic" on earth.





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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. but...we didn't get a drop of Iraqi oil or didn't you notice?
where's the oil ?
Why don't we have Iraqi oil flowing into US refineries yet ?
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. Semi-Submersible Cocaine Seizure:
Semi-Submersible Cocaine Seizure: (New Video with Interior Shots)

On September 13th boarding teams from the Midget seized a self-propelled semi-submersible vessel carrying 15,000 lbs. of cocaine, and apprehended it's four crew members near Guatemala.



http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e86_1221890212
Guatemala is an area the fourth fleet operates in to back up the coast guard also.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
21. You may recall Bush set his new "gun boat diplomacy" in motion in the Caribbean.
Washington Revives the Fourth Fleet: The Return of U.S. Gun Boat Diplomacy to Latin America

• Administration not bothering to conceal implicit threat to the region

• After ignoring Latin America for most of his Presidency, Bush dispatches the Navy

• The steady remilitarization of Panama may provide a safe haven for the revitalized fleet

• FTA with Panama could grant U.S. access to canal zone military facility for Fourth Fleet

• Correa facetiously suggests that Manta be moved to Colombia

The dearth of diplomatic content in the April 24 Pentagon announcement left little mystery regarding the purpose behind Washington’s decision to reestablish the Fourth Fleet to patrol Latin American and Caribbean waters. As Washington shifts its attention back to the Western Hemisphere, it will have to grapple with issues that have been on the back burner for more than a decade. The return of the Fourth Fleet, largely unnoticed by the U.S. press, appears to represent a policy shift that projects an image of Washington once again asserting its military authority on the region, coincidentally coinciding with the announcement that Brazil has just launched a military initiative, the Conselho Sul-Americano de Defesa, embracing two of its neighbors with whom Washington has chilly relations.

~snip~
he Dispatch of the Fourth Fleet: A Turn to Style, not Substance
Washington’s Fourth Fleet initiative is mainly not a welcomed development in U.S. Latin American policy relations. While raising apprehensions of covert U.S. military and intelligence ranks to the armed forces of hemispheric leftist regimes, as voiced by Correa of Ecuador in April 2008, the Fleet’s presence could also lead to the diminishment of local funding for broad social and humanitarian needs as Latin America’s defense establishments will seek to bolster their budgets in response to the growing threat posed by neighboring militaries which are building up their armed forces. The return of gun boat diplomacy is only a confirmation to Latin America that the U.S. is unaware of some of the new realities as the region seeks out its destiny without the White House at its helm.

More:
http://www.coha.org/2008/06/washington-revives-the-fourth-fleet-the-return-of-us-gun-boat-diplomacy-to-latin-america/

~~~~~~~~~~~~

~snip~
Even before the April 2002 coup in Venezuela that sought to topple Chávez from power, diplomatic relations between the South American nation and the United States were tense. Chávez for example criticized U.S.-style free trade in the region and pursued a nationalistic oil policy. When it emerged that the United States had aided opposition forces involved in the coup, relations took a nosedive and never fully recovered.

Unfortunately the Bush White House has done everything in its power to provoke Chávez yet further. Last April, the Pentagon announced that it would revive its Fourth Fleet in the Caribbean. The fleet is based at the Mayport Naval Station in Jacksonville, Florida and answers to the U.S. Southern Command (Southcom) in Miami. Southcom has about 11 vessels currently under its command, a number that could increase in future.

An April 24 Bloomberg report claimed that the fleet would be lead by the nuclear aircraft carrier USS George Washington. But a subsequent report appearing in the Venezuelan newspaper El Universal quoted U.S. Admiral James Stavridis as saying that the force would not have an offensive capability. “We have no intention whatsoever to have an aircraft carrier as part of the Fourth Fleet,” Stavridis said.

The Navy claims it resuscitated the Fourth Fleet to combat terrorism, to keep the economic sea lanes of trade free and open, to counter illicit trafficking, and to provide humanitarian assistance and disaster relief.

Such claims notwithstanding, it’s no secret that the United States would like to head off the left wing-alliance between Venezuela, Cuba and Bolivia. And Chávez is probably correct in seeing the Fourth Fleet in Caribbean waters as a “shot across his bow.”

More:
http://www.counterpunch.org/kozloff09122008.html
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
22. The direction Latin America has been headed lately (socialist)
has Washington a wee bit antsy. I believe in The Socialist Revolution. So I say Good Luck, Washington. You and yours have been at the helm, your time is up. Karma is reaching out to you. Capitalistic Consumers. Fascists.
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