A bad day for the GOP on politics, bailout plan

Source: AP/NYTimes



By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: September 26, 2008
Filed at 6:49 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Even for a party whose president suffers dismal approval ratings, whose legislative wing lost control of Congress and whose presidential nominee trails in the polls, it was a remarkably bad day for Republicans.

A White House summit meeting on Thursday meant to shore up John McCain's shaky campaign ''devolved into a contentious shouting match.'' And that's how McCain's own campaign described it.

The meeting revealed that President Bush's $700 billion bid to combat the worst financial crisis in decades had been suddenly sidetracked by fellow Republicans in the House, who refused to embrace a plan that appeared close to acceptance by the Senate and most House Democrats.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson begged Democratic participants not to disclose how badly the meeting had gone, dropping to one knee in a teasing way to make his point according to witnesses.

And when Paulson hastily tried to revive talks in a nighttime meeting near the Senate chamber, the House's top Republican refused to send a negotiator.

''This is the president's own party,'' said Rep. Barney Frank, a top Democratic negotiator who attended both meetings. ''I don't think a president has been repudiated so strongly by the congressional wing of his own party in a long time.''



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-Financial-Meltdown.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

We know some sort of bailout action is needed. While most of us don't like it, I think most people will go along with it based on the conditions the Dems have set: Oversight, re-regulation, slowing down of the money handed over with progress assessments, something in it for those who are assuming the risk (the taxpayers)like sharing profit when/if it comes, limiting CEO golden parachutes and compensation and some safeguards for Americans so they don't lose their homes. It's not perfect but it is a fairer compromise for those footing the bill, than the original plan.

That the repukes would act so cynically and covertly when it comes to a crisis that effects everyone, means they put party and politics above country. They could have worked with others from the start instead of being secretive and undermining the sincere efforts of other Congressional leaders. This was a stunt to make McLame look presidential because he is anything but presidential. This is not the behavior of a leader. This is the behavior of someone who will place self interest above the welfare of others. He's not fit to lead a boy scout troop, how was he chosen as the repub candidate?

when so many economists oppose it???

do so because they think the magic free market faries will save us all if only the big nasty government will stay away.

He said that we need to increase provate investment by reducing capital gains taxes and reducing regulation.

And you stop a wound from bleeding by sticking the knife in deeper and twisting it.

being tied to a group called ACORN supposedly getting 20% of the profits. What does anyone know about this? I am sure it's is a good, progressive group from what I could find , but is it worth being a sticking point?
Thanks.

supposedly. I'm trying to find out more info

Edited to add:

This is what Lindsey Graham said on Greta's show: “And this deal that's on the table now is not a very good deal. Twenty percent of the money that should go to retire debt that will be created to solve this problem winds up in a housing organization called ACORN that is an absolute ill-run enterprise, and I can't believe we would take money away from debt retirement to put it in a housing program that doesn't work.”

While I am sure that Republican Newspeak fo 'doesn't work' = 'lets African Americans move into my neighborhood', I still wonder if there is any truth to this.

I know of no one, NO ONE where I work or live who is in favor of the bailout.

That is a risable assertion and likely something thrown out there, simply because ACORN is a dog whistle word that makes frothers set to frothing.

Man, the right can lie.

Right Wing Radio has railed against it. Not only has Obama worked with it, so did John Edwards. As my right-wing, moon-bat crazy Aunt-in-law said, "They just help black people steal money from the government."

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/08/cuyahoga_board_probes_voter_re.html

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17423510&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18168&rfi=6

http://rottenacorn.com/index.html


If bailout money is going to go to ACORN, I have a serious problem with that.

This is an incredible lie. All those billions are going into the pockets of the CEOs.

All of the money should be used to consolidate bad loans and provide liquidity.

And regarding the CEOs - It is time for some Enron-like prosecutions of those running the show when the books were being cooked.

Here is the proposed legislation

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6165093/Dodd-Financial-Rescue-Mark


Here is an analysis

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_09_21-2008_09_27.shtml#1222499614


This is an outrage! No money for pet projects out of this bailout. I am disgusted with Dodd, who got a sweetheart mortgage deal that he claims he did not realize was well below market rates. Countrywide was just being nice to him! The fact that he chaired the Senate committee overseeing the industry has nothing to do with it!

wasn't enough to upset the Republicans in Congress, but the idea of perhaps assisting families behind in their mortgages has them going all apoplectic.

Their objections aren't to helping Wall Street or bailing out moguls. They're upset that those undeserving poor and minority people might get a break.

Plus, the Republicans know how to play nasty politics. They know the American public is opposed to the bailout and they're going to pretend to be populists to tap into the anger.

I do believe the Democrats are going to have problems should they continue to push for a bailout. From the response to a poll on our local Democratic Party Website it's pretty clear that even among Democrats there's great opposition to any $700 billion bailout plan.

...is a wasted dollar of pure profit. It fails the "trickle down" test.

Think of an urgent piss where you just can't wait to let it go but you don't want the torrent to be relieved and wasted in your pants. Well thats what taxes redistributed to the poor are for these wealthy republicans, pure waste and no pleasure.

Aha, but a well controlled piss stream under high pressure shot straight into one of those large floor model turn of the last century urinals, that is quite a different natter. Aimed and shot directly onto the large chrome drain screen located at the bottom of the urinal complete with the characteristic sounds is pure ecstasy to old white republicans like John McCain, Fred Thompson, Newt Gingrich, Phil Gramm, Orrin Hatch and the rest of their repuke wanna-be counter-parts in Congress. They are just no able to wait to experience that feeling a dozon times a day!

Well to these republicans, that is exactly the same feeling as what directed spending on the Iraq and Afghanistan's wars as well as no bid contracts to Halliburton and the big defense corporations in times of crisis disasters and Wall Street bailouts produces for these rat bastards.

The trickle-down part comes at the conclusion of the piss torrent, where those few forced squirts to empty the urethra are reserved for their cronies who are waiting to catch these and then of course at the very end those final one or two drops which are shaken and squeezed out at random may be caught and passed onto the poor and needy, if they are alert and watch carefully for them.

For female republicans the feelings must be somewhat more dispersed having to to sit down and spread, but I'm sure their minds experience the sensations just as intensely.

:yoiks:

Can I use that? God I needed a good laugh....

!

:hi:

That would be an objection against their own interests.

....bailout. Any sane American has finally come to realize that Bush can't be trusted. Now it seems that republicans smartened up, where democrats can still be gullible enough to fall for this kind of BS.

Democrats are damned if they vote for the bailout and damned if the economy totally falls apart. ...This could be the October surprised.

There's something fishy about republicans not falling in line with Cheney. It never happened before.

The House GOPers holding this up do not want the regulation or the government involved or help for the little guy. Typical! They may never agree, but with Rovian skill they will turn this against the dems. I do not blame Dodd for being furious; he has been working non-stop.

It's pretty clear McCain only has one thing in mind and it's not our financial situation. I think a majority of Americans want no bailout at all, no matter what. McCain is trying to tap into that group. If Democrats get on the wrong side of this in the publics mind it could be bad in November. McCain is banking on the idea that most people are stupid, well there may be some truth to that, especially on the republican side.

According to this USA Today story.

Got a link for your claim, "a majority of Americans want no bailout at all, no matter what"?


http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2008-09-25-poll-results_N.htm

Nearly eight out of 10 Americans — 78% — say Congress should approve a historic bailout of the nation's financial markets, but most want lawmakers to significantly modify the Bush administration's $700 billion plan, according to a new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll.

Maybe your poll is right. But I don't sense that from public comments. One thing I do see is the media, congress, wall street, and the president are in the tank for this bailout. Is the public? Some politicians don't seem to think so, nor do I.

from the traders, the banks, the ceos the bonuses, the congressman etc

This is my plan http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4052381

published polls are much better, imo. Not perfect, of course.

I somehow doubt those on Mainstreet are the ones voting in this "poll"

and that utterly contradicts the claim that "a majority of Americans want no bailout at all, no matter what", which is what I was responding to.

22% said do something close to the Bush/Paulson plan.

56% in the poll chose the answer "do something else." "Something else" was undefined.

To say all those 56% were saying do a bailout is a huge leap.

This is an opportunity for McSame and the Repukes to say, "We're not Bush, but those Democrats sure marched in lockstep with his plan to take your tax money."

If this plan goes through, and anything blows up from it by Election Day, then look for the blame game to go into overdrive.

This is a crisis and my vote will always be for Obama, but this is a trap. I say put restrictions on banks back in place. We are witnessing the fall of an empire. We have lost our grip. Let the fall of the banks happen. We will go through horrible times, but we will rebuild. If we sacrifice our tax dollars to this crisis we will lose all of our social programs.

Leap and a net will appear. There is an option out there. We can rebuild our economy through green jobs. Green manufacturing and a new economy. People I am not willing to give up our treasury to help a few in the long term. I would rather use our treasury to help us all. This is the choice we need to make. Let the banks fail, Bring our troops home. We did not learn from the fall of the USSR. Governments fall because when they can no longer take care of their citizens. That is the choice that we have been given. Not take care of us or help the few.

Now is our time.

when a family member is a junkie, you do not help them by supporting their habit. You support them by being compassionate and use your money to send them to rehab. Giving the banking industry this bailout is only prolonging their habit. Let them hit bottom and send the banks to rehab.

huge resources that will make it bigger than god...a MAJOR monolpoly in the banking world. What's up with that?

Like you, I'm very dubious about today's news. In fact, I'm dubious about this whole thing. I hope the Democrats use this to force real reform.

contentious fight. The same way that the British do it in Parliament.

Bad day for Dems. People are very pissed about the bailout. Dems didn't give a shit...they went ahead and did it anyway. GOP was able to take advantage of the situation and look like the good guys sparing the American people this tragedy.

this clusterfuck that is gonna end up biting them in the ass!!

welfare while taking a dump on the working Joe, and the meme "No dimes difference between the Republicans and Democrats",will come out and that may
depress voting.

due to Rebpug greed and rapacity. Their plan is let them eat cake, rewarding the people that did this by removing all regulations and letting them really steal! They are mad because they don't want regulations, don't want to help Main St. It's up to Obama to articulate this tonight during the speech. I live in a very red area, and let me tell you, the people I work with are not happy about the nation's economy tanking because Repugs are trying to make quality points for McCain.

The Dems want the deal done and Republicans don't.... could the debate be the reason?

The premise that is presented is that without a bailout (or as Bush said this morning, "A Rescue Plan") our financial system will fail, so they want $700 billion to start out. They need to prove it to everyone: the Congress and the American taxpayers, but especially the American taxpayers. We are not children and if we are expected to pay for this then we deserve a detailed explanation as to why it is needed. It is also not unreasonable to expect that if this much is being done for Wall Street, then Main Street and the American people deserve the help they need rather than being told, "You're on your own".

If Republican are not whole-heartedly onboard with a bailout that is being presented by the Republican administration, then the Democrats should not have this monkey placed on their backs. This is where the Law of Unintended Consequences comes into play. If Democrats lead the way to any kind of a bailout that does not have widespread public support, then they should be ready to suffer the wrath of the American voters, particularly those who support Democrats, as the party appears to abandon its principles of supporting the average American and instead rescues the Wall Street fat cats.

I certainly do not buy into the validity of polls that claim that great numbers of Americans support a bailout. Polls are conducted by contacting people and should represent a cross section of all people on this issue. I have a friend who bleeds Republican and he does not support a bailout of this magnitude for the big time Wall Street gamblers and neither do I. The views that we hold as well as those of people we know should not be discounted just because some poll claims the contrary. The sense that I get from here at DU as well as from Republicans I read about and in my local paper is that people do not support this bailout.

when breakaway Republicans are the only ones on the right side of this issue (anti-bailout).

The Dems trying to ram this swindle through are the Bad Guys on this one. Makes me want to puke.

The Repugs are totally OK with rewarding the rich for their incompetence, see no bids for Haliburton, Katrina, Iraq etc. They don't want the market re-regulated, that is their main piss and it won't be bought by the American public. The public doesn't want to reward the a-holes who brought us this mess, no matter what any of the pols say. Ending golden parachutes isn't enough, I don't want to pay them $37 million a year for failing either. The Dems will only fail if they push this through without upping the ante for main st - how about a rebuiling the infrastructure, that would produce lots of good paying jobs and NEEDS to be done? This is their opportunity. Don't fall for the trap of shilling for this corrupt industry wihtout making them pay (cut their pay) and making it an even better deal for the average Jill/Joe.

Fuck them, I'm moving all my money to fixed interest investments for now and getting more information on moving to other countries. If Obama doesn't win, we'll cash out everything and move.

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and (amazingly) it's Republicans who are playing the heroes by railing against the bailout.

Are they sincere? Of course not. They're a bunch of lying opportunists who realize they can talk the talk because they can rely on the Dems to do the dirty work for them while they come out sounding like anti-corporate welfare populists.

Pathetic.

I think the public should be given a look at all three plans (Paulson's, the Senate, and the House Republicans) so we can make up our own minds about this mess. All the spin and fighting does no one any good. I want to decide for myself.

:donut:

Since they plan to give the money to nobody in particular and yet everyone.

Sorry. They have not strategic exact problem to start making plans to fix.

This is just give more money to the money lenders. Guess what, they'll need more next year. I still fail to see where anything is broke beyond needing the cap put back on interest rates and outlaw arm loans.

People took on bad debt they gave them and they got their assets back. They can wait till they go back up in value and sell. banks have the advantage of time that the rest of us don't. They're insitutions that can reap compounding interest far longer than anyone here can live. Becaues of that they will always win.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/09/26/many_voice_anger_over_700b_outlay/

From Boston to Southern California, many Americans are questioning the government's plan to spend $700 billion to rescue ailing Wall Street investment firms

Why are the Dems flanking Bush, in the photo-ops?

Better question, how come, knowing that an "October surprise" was sure to come, have the Dems been once again stampeded by the Bush/neocon tactic of driving events using surprise, panic and fear?

I'm beginning to think that this cynical Republican move is going to backfire on the GOP as even the remaining fence-sitters get their memories jogged about Republican stunts like the drum-beating for the Iraq War and as McCain foolishly lets himself be associated with the still-unpopular House Republican leadership and Buckaroo Bush. This is not a "gotcha" gaffe, but a major blunder.

I'm beginning to finally have real faith and hope that Barrack Obama will win the November election. But my faith and hope is tempered with the sobering thought about the herculean efforts that are going to be needed to clean up the messes that Dubya and his fellow Republicans have left behind.

:dem:

Who has a majority in both houses?

Who could push through a plan, regardless of the House Republicans.

It is time to LEAD!!!

What will happen to State Pensions if nothing is done? The government is suppose to guarantee it, but if they have no money...

What happens to 401K s ?

How much money can the government print before it's absolutely worthless?

I am not for the bailout as proposed by Bush, but I do know there are many good economists
advising the Democrats. When Clinton lent money to Mexico it was paid back and I believe even a profit was realized. Something can probably be done, very carefully with safeguards that work, to protect pensions and investiments for retirement or college.

This came about because of the economic policies of Bush. No regulation is what they wanted. It's what they got, and the mess today is what WE got.

Bush wanted to bankrupt the government (he's good at bankrupting businesses) and it appears that's what he is doing.

This is tricky, people don't really understand what would happen if nothing is done. We hear Bush, but who believes him at this point? Or any of his administration, for that matter. When people make a mess it follows that they should be left to clean it up, but in this case I don't believe those that made the mess have the smarts to clean it up.

It is surprising to me that so many people agree with the Republican House rogues.

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they have spines. The dems don't.

Well, if they do, I'll support them in it.

Some of you really believe we need a bail out. Wrong, we need arrests and taking back of assets from the ceos.

These banks and credit card companies(most cc companies are owned by the banks) have been charging upto 45% compound interest for years. I really don't think they're short on money.

So now they have bad loans people bailed out of, WRONG, they hold the title to those houses called assets. They need to do what banks do and hold them longer and not yell our assets went down in value during a bad market.

The bail out is a giant scam. Nothing more. If americans cant get college loans for a while then the price of college will come down, as it should. If they can't get car loans then the same for the price of cars. We'll go on. And as far as housing loans, sorry the average full time worker couldn't afford one anyway. Let the dollar value shrink to a place that fits the real economy. That's the only thing that will make a healthy economy.

Proping up prices temporarily with a bail out will only leave it to topple later, and us with a whole lot of compounding debts.

Betcha we're planning to borrow from those very banks and some countries ya'll wouldn't be too happy about having more of a piece of us to pay that initial bail out anyway.