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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 10:04 PM
Original message
1st commercial ship sails through Northwest Passage
Source: CBC

The Canadian Coast Guard has confirmed that in a major first, a commercial ship travelled through the Northwest Passage this fall to deliver supplies to communities in western Nunavut.

The MV Camilla Desgagnés, owned by Desgagnés Transarctik Inc., transported cargo from Montreal to the hamlets of Cambridge Bay, Kugluktuk, Gjoa Haven and Taloyoak in September.

"We did have a commercial cargo vessel that did the first scheduled run from Montreal, up through the eastern Arctic, through the Northwest Passage to deliver cargo to communities in the west," Brian LeBlanc of the Canadian Coast Guard told CBC News.
Rayes, who was on the vessel during its trip through the Northwest Passage, said the company informed the coast guard, which put an icebreaker on standby.

"They were ready to be there for us if we called them, but I didn't see one cube of ice," he said.


"That was the first — that I'm aware of anyway — commercial cargo delivery from the east through the Northwest Passage."

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2008/11/28/nwest-vessel.html
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dubeskin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. At first I thought "so what?"
And then I realized "oh shit." This means that the ice is disappearing up there.

"They were ready to be there for us if we called them, but I didn't see one cube of ice," he said.

And WHO says global warming isn't occurring?!
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. According to my friend Sarah Palin
Its just a natural progression towards the End of Days

Or maybe Tina Fey said that...
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Think Tina said she wasn't sure about this global warming whoozie-whatzit, because it could be
"just a normal part of the End of Days." Yeah. Loved it.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yeah hard to tell those two apart sometimes..
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Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Tina was the smart one pretending to be dumb. The other one was the other way.
:)
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Meanwhile, down south in the Antarctic....holy shit
New rifts form on Antarctic ice shelf

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3622647

(CNN) -- Scientists have identified new rifts on an Antarctic ice shelf that could lead to it breaking away from the Antarctic Peninsula, the European Space Agency said.

The Wilkins Ice Shelf, a large sheet of floating ice south of South America, is connected to two Antarctic islands by a strip of ice. That ice "bridge" has lost around 2,000 square kilometers (about 772 square miles) so far this year, the ESA said.

A satellite image captured November 26 shows new rifts on the ice shelf that make it dangerously close to breaking away from the strip of ice -- and the islands to which it's connected, the ESA said.

Scientists first spotted rifts in the ice shelf in late February, and they noticed further deterioration the following week. The period marks the end of the South Pole summer and is the time when such events are most likely, said Ted Scambos, a glaciologist at the National Snow and Ice Data Center at the University of Colorado in Boulder.

Before the new rifts were spotted this week, the last cracks were noticed July 21.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/11/29/antarctic.i...
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. Your link was broke for me - but from the DU thread you cited, here it is again
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. And . . .
. . . this isn't causing massive fear and terror because?
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I found this news in an "odd offbeat news' section
rather than in a science section although Canada just reported it as news
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Bose headphones!!!! Erradication of unwanted NOISE.
Great for Iraq war, global warming, the economy.....



http://www.bose.com/controller?event=DTC_LINKS_TARGET_EVENT&DTCLinkID=2724&perfsourceid=k9677&src=k9677


$299 - free shipping!
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. If right wingers close their eyes and refuse to see something,
they can swear up and down it doesn't exist and their followers will parrot their insane refusal to see the truth. It is kind of like what they did with evolution. They have not evolved yet and they are jealous of those of us who have. So, they do not believe in evolution thinking that will somehow make us the bad guys in the eyes of the public. It's a sick, twisted, warped illogical way of thinking, but consider the source.
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smiley Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. yippeee!
mark one up for global warming!
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NOW tense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is why I pay attention on Black Friday...........
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. interesting times. and we live in them. nt
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
11. I read ice is melting on the northern pole. In winter.
Edited on Fri Nov-28-08 11:30 PM by bluesmail
Less ice for Exxon Mobile to drill through.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. Nothing to do with global warming? Not a cube of ice in sight.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's a fair size ship, too:


Compare that with Gjøa, the first boat to do it - just 47 tons, and 70 feet long:



Getting a big boat through the shallow coastal Northwest Passage route is pretty impressive (rather than the larger, though often more icebound, route north of Victoria Island - Amundsen used the same route as this ship did - hence the name of Gjøa Haven).
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
15. Ain't global warming grand?
And there's all that oil and gas we can now access. This on top of the contined break-up of the Antarctic ice shelf really doesn't bode well.

God help us if they discover oil and gas in Antarctica. The Bushes will probably go into the heater business. Giant heaters. They will call them "drilling assistance heaters." Got a little ice problem? Not to worry, they have the solution.

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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. Kinda off topic
I've read about early sailing explorers searching for the fable northwest passage. Drake was one of them. How did they learn there might have been a passage? Is there a secret history that he and a select few were privileged to that dated back to the days when the Arctic ocean was free of ice? Secret maps hidden in government vaults? I'm not putting on tinfoil for this one, just extremly curious.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I never was taught that they were looking for a "fabled" passage -
just looking for a passage.
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I guess 'fabled passage' are my words
So, they knew there was a passage, but how did they learn of it?
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. there wasn't a passage, ergo they didn't KNOW there was a passage, they hoped for one
read the story more carefully, the reason it's news is that the northwest passage did not actually exist until just recently

this is the first ever commercial shipment thru the northwest passage

it did not exist in the days of henry hudson nor did the "fountain of youth" exist that was sought by ponce de leon, even though TODAY we may have botox and face-lifts and implants, it doesn't mean that ponce de leon KNEW of botox, it meant that he followed a myth

as did the original seekers of the northwest passage --- they had a dream of such a shortcut as some had a dream of the renewal of youth, but that's all it was back then -- a dream



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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Amundsen was the first to navigate it, at the start of the 20th century
So yes, it was there all the time - but you need to be an excellent navigator (and Amundsen did have an engine as well as sails, which helps a lot when picking your way through ice-choked channels).

http://www.gjoahaven.com/roald-amundsen-gjoa.htm
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. With the world's nations belching more and more CO2, I would say the Northwest Passage is now open.
The ice is melting away.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. sigh yes we all know that there was sorta something there that amundsen didn't walk it
Edited on Sat Nov-29-08 06:16 PM by pitohui
however a northwest passage that was useful for purpose of commercial navigation wasn't there until very, very recently as a result of the changes in climate

whenever i think i type too much and too many qualifiers someone is always there to remind me, nope, you just can't be too nitty on the internet
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Bringing the fountain of youth into the discussion was probably a mistake, then
since that really didn't exist - it wasn't just something that wasn't very useful.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. I don't think they knew there was a passage.
They were trying to discover one. :shrug:
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Part wishful thinking, part "it can't be *all* land and ice up there"
European countries looked for both a north-west and north-east passage to China and the east Asian islands for trade in spices, silk and more - especially Britain and the Netherlands, when Spain and Portugal dominated the oceans further south.

For hundreds of years, some people theorised there was an 'Open Polar Sea', where the ice stopped and navigation could be free - though the reasoning behind this was never very good - that was the wishful thinking. Some people drew vaguely accurate maps of what they found (eg Henry Hudson, who found both the Hudson River and Hudson Bay), while some drew stuff that was basically made up, and misled other for years afterwards, like the Zeno chart:

The source for much of Mercator’s representation of the north Atlantic was a book published in Venice in 1558, described as an account of the fourteenth-century voyages of the brothers Antonio and Nicolò Zeno, and accompanied by a woodcut map. The book was compiled from family papers by Antonio Zeno’s great-great-great grandson, also called Nicolò, a respected writer, mathematician, and geographer, and member of the city-state’s Council of Ten. Around 1380, so the story goes, Nicolò Zeno left Venice on a trip to England and Flanders, but was blown wildly off course by a storm, and shipwrecked on an island which, he subsequently discovered, was called Frisland. Attacked by the natives, he was rescued by Zichmni, prince of nearby Porlanda; the two formed an alliance, Zichmni becoming lord of Frisland and the neighboring islands of Ledovo, Ilofe, and Sanestol with the help of Nicolò’s naval know-how.

This information is said to come from letters Nicolò wrote to Antonio Zeno, who then joined his brother in Frisland, and continued in Zichmni’s service for ten years after Nicolò’s death. Together, Antonio and Zichmni led expeditions to Grislanda, Engroueland, and Icaria, meeting hostile natives, stunted cave-dwellers and practically-minded monks who fashioned all manner of things from volcanic rocks. Further discoveries are mentioned in material supposedly drawn from another letter, this time from Antonio Zeno to another brother, Carlo. These were not made by Antonio himself, but were narrated to him by a Frisland fisherman who, blown off course, found himself among the savages of Drogeo, where he lived for many years before escaping to Estotiland. Here the fisherman found the king’s library stocked with books in Latin—evidence of some earlier European contact—and heard tell of more civilized peoples, of cities and great wealth lying to the south, seemingly a reference to the settled tribes of North America or perhaps Mexico.

All of these places appear on the “Carta da Navegar” which accompanied the book. The tip of Scotland can be glimpsed at the bottom of the map’s centre, and Denmark, Sweden, and Norway are recognizable and duly labelled; above Norway is a gulf, with Europe’s landmass looping across the top of the map to “Engronelant”—as Greenland was often then known. Iceland, too, appears, though it has acquired seven unfamiliar extra islands to the east. Indeed, apart from the slightly misplaced Shetland islands—here “Estland”—everything else on the map, though scrupulously labeled, is entirely fictional.

Within only a few years of their publication, however, these details had all been incorporated into standard cartography—starting with the 1561 edition of Ptolemy published in Venice, which was widely reproduced thereafter and used as the basis for subsequent maps. Sailors navigated the North Atlantic assuming the existence of Frisland, Estotiland, and Drogeo—Frobisher had actually landed on Greenland when he thought he was planting the English flag on Frisland—and around a hundred years passed before enough journeys were made and reports filed to confirm that where Zeno had carefully mapped out islands, there was nothing but sea.

http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/18/wood.php


http://kort.bok.hi.is.nyud.net:8080/kort/jpg/island17x1024.jpg
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. This is why bush refused to act on Global Warming. He wants the
northwest passage open to commerce.
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
28. Canadians told Bush to butt out of their waters. I doubt he listened.
"Received Thursday, 22 December 2005 21:14:00 GMT

OTTAWA, Dec 22 (AFP) - Conservative leader Stephen Harper said Thursday he would assert more strongly Canada's northern territorial claims following reports that a US submarine recently traveled unannounced through Canadian Arctic waters. . .

'The single most important duty of the federal government is to protect and defend our national sovereignty,' said Harper, Prime Minister Paul Martin's main challenger in the January 23 election. . .

'There are new and disturbing reports of American nuclear submarines passing though Canadian waters without obtaining the permission of -- or even notifying -- the Canadian government.'

Canada is at odds over parts of the Arctic region with the United States, Russia, Denmark and Norway.

Ottawa and Washington disagree over control of the famed Northwest Passage and the resource-rich Beaufort Sea, which touches both Alaska and Canada's northern territories."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2003076

Our new Mare Nostrum?

Whose got the biggest submarine?
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