Showoff leads to stolen guns

Source: The Oregonian


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Two days after 130 guns were stolen during a break-in at a Vancouver firearms store, a 15-year-old boy was discovered with one of the handguns at his junior high school in Pierce County, Wash. He and two 14-year-old boys had been seen walking around Bethel Junior High School in Spanaway, Wash., with the loaded .22-caliber pistol in their waistbands.

"They were showing it off in school," said Detective Ed Troyer, spokesman for the Pierce County Sheriff's Office.

A quick run of the handgun's serial number revealed its origin and set off a multi-agency investigation that led to the recovery of 124 of the stolen firearms and ammunition. The guns were packed in suitcases and backpacks in two homes in Vancouver and Southeast Portland.

The 15-year-old boy and his older brother, Christopher Aguon, 21, of Vancouver, are now in custody, accused of the Nov. 30 smash-and-grab at Brightwater Ventures in Vancouver during the Thanksgiving holiday. They each face 126 counts of theft of a firearm, first-degree burglary and criminal conspiracy to traffic in stolen firearms.



Read more: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/12/feds_recover_guns_from_vancouv.html

Thank goodness his brother, the criminal, was dumb enough to have his brother be involved. Some kid who thinks that a gun is fun and games obviously isn't a hardened crook. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that this will ruin his life. How stupid, all around....

At 15 I was more than old enough to know that stealing guns is bad.

This should be a Federal case in both the literal and dramatic sense. 10 years' in Leavenworth for the both of them and make it known that's what's waiting for any asshat who steals firearms.

(yes, I know this would probably be prosecuted in Canada, but the same philosophy applies)

First, only carry a gun if you intend to kill someone. That's what guns are for. There is no "wounding" with handguns. There is no Lone Ranger trick of "shooting a gun out of the bad guy's hands." When you carry a gun, you are under a directive; you are intending or preparing to kill somebody.

This first point is so elemental, it shows you how dumb NBA and football players are in always carrying firearms, let alone millions of shift workers and rednecks.

The second lesson derives from the first. Do not show guns off to your buddies in school. This never impresses your homies, and gives those teachers who abuse you daily an excuse to ship your sorry butt off to jail, something they wish THEY could do to every student they encounter.

If you bring a gun to school - and yes, I agree that many of you have a very good reason to do so, killing the people who have hurt you all your life - only bring it on the day you intend to wreak revenge. You can't make people respect you by showing off your guns. You can't make people respect you at all, that was the point of getting the gun in the first place. Learn from Harris and Klebold, whose parents and acquaintances never knew they had guns until that great day they came out and started blasting.

And before anybody asks, I did not pay money for that stupid dripping sarcasm icon. I am not being sarcastic. I'm explaining the truth of guns to people who don't really understand it, including their lame-ass parents.

I carry it for personal protection. I carry it in case I am confronted by a criminal who intends to do me harm. I carry a handgun because it is easier than carrying a police officer around with me wherever I go.

I love your elitist attitude about dumb shift workers. It shows me exactly where your world view is.

how are you going to protect yourself?

Not to kill the attacker.

Mindset is everything. If you have intent to kill on your mind, you may be committing a crime.

Take a self-defense class some time. It doesn't have to involve a weapon. They teach exactly the same thing in martial arts disciplines.

just that, dead. and not so funny how people applaud and say he got what he deserved.

i thought they teach you that you shouldn't draw your weapon unless you are prepared to shoot. and all the gun nuts post how you can't just shoot to wound you know, you can't just hold the attacker there with the threat of using the weapon while you call the police, nooooooooooo

i have taken self defense class, and i'm a gun owner, and i'm not afraid of inanimate objects, and i have taken martial arts class.

Of his or her actions.

i thought they teach you that you shouldn't draw your weapon unless you are prepared to shoot.

That is correct.

...and all the gun nuts post how you can't just shoot to wound you know,

Also correct. If you are forced to shoot, you aim for center of mass and shoot with the intent of stopping the person's actions. Attempting to "wing" someone creates a risk of missing and aggravating the situation.

...you can't just hold the attacker there with the threat of using the weapon while you call the police, nooooooooooo...

Nothing I have ever been taught in a self-defense class excludes that course of action. If the attack stops when you display the firearm, there is no need to shoot and therefore shooting would constitute excessive force (and possibly be chargeable as a crime).

If you don't intend to crash, why wear it? I don't intend to kill anyone when I am armed. I WILL kill someone if they threaten my life though. I'm funny like that, I actually think my life is worth fighting for.

you can fight for your life besides using a gun you know

some people i guess are 'limited by their limitations'

"i don't intend to kill anyone when i am armed" has got to be one of the most laughable statements posted on this board.

What is the issue you have with people who choose to carry a licensed handgun? I have no intention of killing anyone but I will if forced to defend my life. Pretty simple isn't it? I don't WANT to kill but if confronted with a life or death situation I will have the ability.

When it is drawn I have every intention of killing with it. When I am carrying it I am just carrying it. Yes, you DO have those two confused.

if you don't intend to kill with it, why carry it at all?

I believe I have explained myself sufficiently. There is no reason to waste any more of my time.

But other less lethal weapons can still lead to death for some individuals, including Tasers, and pepper spray.

They are also far less effective than a handgun. That's why police still carry firearms.

If there was a tool for stopping attackers that was more effective than firearms, the police would be using them instead of firearms.

As others have said, you should never shoot to kill a human, whether they "deserve it" or not. Punishment is up to the justice system. Shooting to kill would be morally wrong. If you shoot at a person, it should only be to stop that person from killing or doing great bodily harm.

If you do shoot someone, and they are no longer a threat, you should attempt to render first aid if it is safe to do so.

if you fire a weapon, mace, taser, or shotgun with 00 buck the mindset should be the same. You are using deadly force.

You must be in direct rational fear for your life or the life of another to act with the capability (not intent) to kill another person. You must act to only stop that threat. You can not dead check a person for example.

With a firearm that is aimed shots center mass. No compromises. That may or may not lead to death. Legs are not rational targets and are still meet the same level of responsibility. You can kill a person by cutting their femoral artery.

Some agencies teach a fail to stop drill which leads a 3 or 4th shot to a persons head. If they are standing.

Once a threat is no longer active, you should call 911 and render assistance if situation allows.

This varies state by state but this is a common sense minimum.

Why would a woman want to fight with a man who outweighs her by 100 pounds and is trying to rape her, when she could use a firearm to defend herself? One thing that isn't laughable is the disdain with which you look on the physically disabled, elderly or anyone who is less physically capable of mitigating a threat and decides that being armed with a firearm that they have been trained to use is the best way for them to defend themselves.

David

but I will if the need arises. BTWS. I have a CWP.

I have no intent or desire to kill anyone, but if someone breaks into my house. I will do my level best to mitigate the threat. That will likely mean at a minimum of two 155 grain 40 caliber rounds center mass, which will likely result in death.

David

are you ashamed?

How many fingers am I holding up?

people who carry a weapon with them intend to kill with it ... "if the need arises" ... "if i have to to protect myself" ... "if i am attacked"

i just put it out there real straightforward-like, without all the little qualifiers and self-justifications.

Ordinary citizens carry firearms for pretty much the same reasons that police officers do.

Killing someone is self defense would not be something to be ashamed of. I'm quite happy when the good guys win. Sometimes the defensive use of a firearm results in the death of the perpetrator and it's sad that they chose to commit the crime that resulted in the loss of their life, but it's not something that one should lose sleep over. Hypothetically if someone was trying to kill myself, my wife or any person I came along who was about to be murdered I would do whatever neccessary to mitigate that threat. However I have no desire or intent to kill anyone.

David

Those are the shift workers I meant, by the way. The ones who made killing fellow workers popular, and who gave the procedure its name.

If you carry a gun, you are announcing that you are ready to kill someone. That is the way the police will see you when you are walking around. Either you have a really good reason to fear for your life, or are licensed and authorized by the government to carry a firearm for a good reason, or you're just simply insecure and are likely to pop someone on the side of the highway.

Sounds like you have it all figured out, tomreedtoon.

:rofl:

They can only relate to what their own motives & intentions are or would be. They confuse the criminal element with those that go through the licensing process to carry a concealed handgun. Obviously they believe that ANY gun not in the hands of a government employee is a bad thing. Freedom sucks, doesn't it?

I am licensed to carry because I decided to exercise my right to do so. I haven't "popped" someone on the side of the highway yet but of course you don't need a carry permit to do that.

You don't NEED a reason.

cowardice and fear?

:shrug:

What concern of your is it why someone who meets whatever state's qualifications for a weapons permit excercises the right to do so?

If you are just genuinely curious, why not just come out and ask if the person would be so kind as to share his or her personal reasons for making that decision?

Your lame attempts at "guessing" are just thinly veiled personal attacks IMO. You've pre-judged the person's reason or reasons as bad ones, without even knowing what they are.

It's one thing if you're a security guard- or are being stalked by an ex-spouse, but simply carrying one around "because you can" strikes reasonable folks as odd.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, and I don't carry a firearm.

Reasonable folks are prepared to defend themselves. It is all in how you define "reasonable". I find a lot of things people do "odd" yet as long as they don't interfere in my life I don't worry about it.

So, tell me about those MILLIONS of shift workers who go postal. I must have missed this.

FWIW, I am licensed to carry a firearm in ~33 states.


No.

The officer who took my fingerprints when I was applying for my carry license said that in his opinion, the state should hand out licenses free to qualified applicants, instead of charging $100 for the privilege. And the one time I've had an encounter with an officer since getting my license, his reaction to my having a CHL was very positive---possibly because my holding a valid NC CHL means I've passed an FBI background check, a state check, a mental health records check, had my prints run by the Feds (clean), and have not committed any serious crime since the carry license was issued (or it would have been invalidated).

BTW, the police carry guns too, and it's not because they want to murder people.

One day a couple years back after checking with the Blair County (PA) sheriff I (probably rather foolishly, I know) decided to put my carry gun on the outside of my belt instead of ITB and go for a stroll around town to pick up a gallon of milk or somesuch.

Of course within two minutes a cruiser pulled up alongside me...with no fanfare or drawn weapons or "hands where I can see them" the officer casually asked "You got a permit?" I replied "Yeah. I don't need it for open though, do I?" Quite nicely he says, "Not at all, but since you do you might want to hide that. We're overworked enough as is and I'd rather not be responding to a man-with-gun call at Sheetz for you, most people here don't know it's legal."

Since he was totally cool about it, and I knew the city cops were desperately shorthanded, I tucked it away and went about my business. No fuss, no muss. Still, he made a good point and I probably wouldn't recommend it.

I'm not following your logic.

David

:rofl:

... candidate. You almost feel sorry for people this stupid.

We are the only species that protect the stupid and the weak. That is why were are devolving as a species.

Interestingly enough the Spartans were gay by today's standards.

I saw a Marine Captain on tv telling his company how to be hardcore like the Spartan warriors. Bet the Marine Corps doesn't teach their recruits those bad-ass Spartans were queer.

Just sayin'.

killing the weak. Just pointing out that, unlike previous steps in our evolution, what we will be come will be lesser than we are.

on edit: we need to start getting over labels. Sex is sex, there is nothing gay or ungay about it.

The social Darwinist approach is to let the bullies win every time, and to glorify the bullies.
It promotes those for whom bullying is the only way they know, like our lame duck pResident.
It destroys many of the people you need to build stable communities and societies.

It is the Republican way.

The Makah Indians of Washington State have it right. Put them on an island with a few rudimentary survival implements.

...that protect the stupid and the weak", that's to some degree, what ALL pack animals do.

I hope the store recovers every bit of their property that was stolen.