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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 11:02 PM
Original message
Durham Man Expelled from Dead Sea Scrolls Exhibit
Source: WRAL-TV

Durham man expelled from Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit
Posted: Today at 6:10 p.m.

RALEIGH, N.C. — A Durham man wearing a shirt criticizing Israel and instructing people not to buy tickets to see the Dead Sea Scrolls was expelled from the exhibit and asked to leave the North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences, museum spokeswoman Emelia Cowans said.

D.J. Register, who is a volunteer escort for the elderly, brought a holocaust survivor to see the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit at the museum on Friday, Cowans said.

When Register started walking around the museum, employees asked him to either turn his shirt inside out or zip up his jacket. When Register refused he was asked to leave the museum because he did not have a permit to protest in a state government building. Both Register and the woman he was escorting were refunded the money for the exhibit tickets.

The exhibit began June 28 at the North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences and ended Sunday. The exhibit originally was supposed to end Dec. 28 but was extended.

Read more: http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4242427
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. For what is worth the Exhibit is WORTH SEEING
don't care for your politics, this is history

And my favorite was actually the bronze scroll that came from the Jordan Museum

Followed by the Scroll of Isaiah, which I could almost read

We saw it last year when it came to San Diego

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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Does it come in a Scrolls on Tape version? n/t
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. You could buy a DVD if you wanted to, close enough?
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. Are these scrolls REALLY dead, or only mostly dead?
The people have the right to know! :P
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. Is copper alive?
:-)
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. I saw the scrolls in Israel 8 years ago
It was awesome.
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The Second Stone Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. He should have refused to leave short of arrest
Cohen v. California lets you wear a political message in a public building and the government cannot throw you out because they do not like the content of the message. In Cohen it was "Fuck the Draft" on a jacket in a Courthouse. A government sponsored museum is no different. People wear logos and jokes on T-shirts all the time.

When did this country stop having free speech?
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Depends on what the shirt said.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. The irony of your reply is, well, something to comtemplate...
Someone is engaging in free speech (through a T-shirt no less) and you believe in "free speech" depending on what was said. So it's free speech only if you agree with it. Otherwise, not so much.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Free speech can only go so far.
Would you support a person walking into a history museum for African-Americans with a t-shirt saying "Swing LO..." and a picture of a lynched Black person? (Yes, this is a REAL t-shirt!)
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Actually, I would.
I would also support the right of the various Nazi organizations to march and wear their silly uniforms and deny that the holocaust happened. And the right of various Xian organizations to peacefully protest a set distance from abortion clinics. And the right of anti-war protesters to protest at speeches given by both Bush the lesser and by Barack Obama.

You see, you either HAVE free speech or you don't. You can't really pick and choose.

The only restriction on free speech is when it uttered in direct and personal threat (Cry "fire" in the theater is the classic example).

But a T-shirt that says "Israel sucks" or "Hitler was right" or "Hamas is horrible" or whatever... that may be offensive to some group, maybe even the majority of people, but it's still part of living with freedom.

Join the ACLU. They defend free speech by everyone, even those we disagree with.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Then that is just sad.
There is a difference between protesting and walking into a place with something designed to incite. You do know the difference don't you? This is why I asked what was said on the t-shirt. There is a difference between "Boycott Israel" and "Death to Israel."

Oh, BTW, you can get the "Swing Lo!" t-shirt on-line. You should get one. Then, walk into a museum for American-American history and proclaim your right to "free speech." It will be interesting to see the court case.

I have been a member of the ACLU. Let it lapse with all my groups. I don't pay anyone anything except local charities, pet charities, and Darfur.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Sad that so many here, even in DU, don't really understand the
concept of "free speech".

I will only wear T-shirts that put forth something that I believe. And I am a more reasonable person, so I would even not wear my "Fuck Bush" T-shirt to a Republican rally (mostly because I don't really want to ever go to a republican rally).

But if I did, I would win the court case (there is a great deal of case law to support the right of free speech).

Read this decision here: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=107690

Sadly, people like you (who believe in free speech only so long as it doesn't offend someone, especially you), seem hell bent on overturning decades of case law by inventing concepts like "hate speech". Yes, there is "hate speech", there are many examples... like these assholes:



But it shouldn't be illegal.

But I don't want to see them arrested and jailed for their "hate". I want them arrested, convicted, and jailed for their ACTIONS, not their words. If they don't commit any actions which are hate related, then let them protest and march and wear T-shirts. Who does this really hurt? To me, it just makes them look to be as stupid as we actually know them to be. And dismissed as such. By elevating their stupidity to something that's "illegal" or even "not allowed", you say that you are AFRAID of what they have to say, so fearful that it must be repressed. And that's the danger of a closed society.

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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. In this country, the state police* used government power to destroy the KKK and the Communist Party
In Europe, the government(s) banned the Nazi Party after WW2 and now ban their literature.

It seems amazing to me that US government power was used to destroy the "Bolshevik Party" that was only really relevant to the Eurasian countries where it formed. I don't think the Soviet system would have ever overtaken us.

*The Federal Bureau of Investigation
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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Thank you!
for that excellent defense of free speech!

Too many Americans really aren't at all aware of exactly how Constitutional rights work. Fact is, true freedom is messy stuff. People who want it nice and tidy with no shouting, no rudeness, no ridiculous overstatement, no protest, no disagreement don't really want freedom. They really want something more authoritarian.

It's been a frequent GOP argument: "People fought hard for your freedoms - how dare you use them!!!!" (I wonder if they go to dinner parties and say "Wanda worked her fingers to the bone making this meal - how dare you eat it!") I'm just surprised to see it come from those presenting themselves as Democrats.
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Veruca Salt Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. There is 'shouting fire in a crowded theater':
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater

"shouting fire in a crowded theater" has since come to be known as synonymous with an action that the speaker believes goes beyond the rights guaranteed by free speech, reckless or malicious speech, or an action whose outcomes are blatantly obvious.
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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Yes, thank you. I guess.
I'm not sure how you feel that relates to this issue. Wearing a T-shirt - no matter what it says - is hardly the equivalent of endangering lives. They are two very different things and the courts have consistently ruled so.

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Veruca Salt Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. My bad, replied to the wrong post!
I totally agree with you for the record - I was just meaning to point out the only place where freedom of speech is possibly restricted. Even then, going through some of the court cases that fall under this, a lot were overturned or thrown out because it is such a fine line.
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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. No worries! I was beginning to wonder if I was missing something.
I've done the same thing myself. More than once. :)
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nodehopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. there are instances when hate speech should be prosecuted
and it has--like Radio Machete for its role in the Rwandan genocide. But short of that I agree with you.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. It's a museum.
It's not a proper venue for any sort of protest.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. "It's not a proper venue for any sort of protest."... PROPER?
Edited on Mon Jan-05-09 11:09 AM by fascisthunter
That "sort of protest" doesn't need to be anywhere "proper"... it's called Freedom of Speech
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. bingo.
proper venue? my ass. This sounds like Bush and his "free speech" zones he had the SS create over the past 8 years.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. It's a museum.
It's not a proper venue. Would you be happy with Christian fundamentalists protesting dinosaur exhibits? It's. A. Museum. Protest outside until your heart's content. But the people inside are trying to learn, and it IS NOT a proper venue for a protest.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. There isn't any such thing as proper...
there IS, however, a big difference between private property and public property. Which is why showing up to protest at, say, a Republican event inside a hotel conference room is grounds to be arrested for trespassing. However, doing the same protest outside on the sidewalk is perfectly OK. Free speech "zones" are one thing I hope that President Obama does away with.

But there are two questions that need to be answered.

First, does wearing a T-shirt with something printed on it meet a requirement of "protest speech"?

Second, is the museum in question a private museum (not supported by taxpayers) or a public museum? If private, they can ask anyone in the museum that they don't like (almost arbitrary, but not quite) to leave. If the person refuses, they can have the police arrest him or her for trespass.

The first can almost universally be answered "yes". The second depends on the institution.


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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. free speech is never comfortable,
which is why it must be supported even in difficult situations. Especially in difficult situations.

I just love how some AIPAC supporters get totally unhinged and claim that reasoned analysis of the I/P issues is somehow anti-semitic. Luckily, people here (in the US) are realizing that Israel comes to the table with very dirty (bloody) hands.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. What bullshit.
You spread the same bullshit all over the place.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. there's this funky new technology that you might want to invest in.
called a mirror.

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Perhaps if you quit hogging it, I could get a look.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I know how to solve this. Where's my ignore button?
ignoring bias, stupidity, and willful ignorance is so useful.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Thank you!
Of course, I will still see all of your stupid remarks, half-truths, and hate-filled remarks, as well as all that lovely anti-Israel propaganda you are so very fond of, but at least I won't have to hear your droning and stupid remarks directed at me.
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Sezu Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. No permit no protest. See how easy that was? n/t
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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. If merely wearing a T-shirt with a message is a protest requiring a permit,
on any given Saturday, half the residents of this county should be arrested on sight. As should a large number of people in every city/town/village in the United States.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. give them time. If the message is seeking truth in the ME, some here would
LOVE to throw your ass in jail for not being properly cowed and supportive of Israel. If we do not accept their position that Israel is always right, and can never be criticized, watch out.
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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Yup. Back in the 70's, I was that way myself
As I learned more, I came to have a more rational view. I don't want to hijack someone else's thread, so I won't go into it, but I agree with you - it's all about suppressing the discussion. I have an instinctive distrust for anyone who spends much energy running around telling other people what not to talk about.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. I wonder if the man would have been expelled for a *pro* Israel shirt?
Somehow I think not.

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. I don't think he was expelled primarily because of his shirt, I think, if you read the article...
he was telling people not to buy tickets. That's usually a good reason to kick anyone out.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
22. What the museum did is VERY ILLEGAL! nt
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. I'm guessing the musuem
has a sign - probably right in front - that says they reserve the right to kick anyone out. Just about every museum in NY has it. It's not public property and it was not the government that kicked him out - that's the only thing the first amendment protects you from. It doesn't protect you from being an asshole.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. It sounds like this museum was public property...
...but that's really not relevant. The Supreme Court has ruled on numerous occasions that public property is not inherently an appropriate venue for running a protest, especially without a permit (were it so, you can imagine what fun could be had with high schools, etc.)

I've no idea whether or not what this man did rises to the level of a "protest" because the article is very vague on exactly what he did.
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Naipes Donating Member (175 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
25. The guy's a hypocrite
Edited on Mon Jan-05-09 12:35 PM by Naipes
He wears a t-shirt instructing people not to buy tickets to see the exhibit and he's INSIDE the exhibit! wtf? A little late don't you think? The only people that are going to see his shirt already bought tickets. Not only that, he was escorting an elderly lady through the exhibit. If he was true to his cause, he wouldn't be in the exhibit in the first place and he would have refused to escort the woman. This guy gets no sympathy from me.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
42. "DJ" may just want attention. The "protest," of course, makes no sense, as you've pointed out.
And the reaction of the museum and police also makes no sense
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
30. Inside the museum is not the appropriate venue. Outside on the steps--yes. The museum operators...
... have a responsibility to protect its priceless contents, including those on loan to it. Outside is public space. Inside is museum space, whether privately or publicly owned.

Suppose someone gets into a shoving match -- not an unheard of event at any protest -- then what?

For the love of Pete, what do priceless antiquities like the Dead Sea Scrolls have to do with the modern State of Israel and its politics?

Hekate


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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
34. Doesn't this infringe freedoms of speech? He wasn't physically blocking entry.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
41. Not LBN on Monday: It happened Friday & was reported in the N&O Sunday
Edited on Mon Jan-05-09 06:28 PM by struggle4progress
Sign-wearing man expelled from exhibit of Dead Sea Scrolls
T. Keung Hui - Staff Writer
Published: Sun, Jan. 04, 2009 12:30AM
Modified Sun, Jan. 04, 2009 01:20AM

RALEIGH -- A self-described "provocative social activist" was expelled from the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit at the N.C. Museum of Natural Science after refusing to remove a sign criticizing Israel. D.J. Register of Durham drew complaints at the museum Friday with a sign on his shirt saying "Remember Palestinan Oppression," "Boycott Israel" and "Don't Buy Dead Sea Scroll Tickets" ... http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1354179.html
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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
44. Pretty much every museum has a code of conduct.

People pay to enjoy the exhibits, and so museums will often eject people who wear profane or objectionable messages on their bods. Even though it may be run by the government certain rules apply. You could also argue that a government run facility shouldn't feature exhibits of a religious nature, but go figure, they do.
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