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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:09 PM
Original message
Digital TV Switch Put on 4-Month Hold
Source: ABC News

The Senate on Monday voted unanimously to postpone the upcoming transition from analog to digital television broadcasting by four months to June 12 — setting the stage for Congress to pass the proposal as early as Tuesday.

Monday's Senate vote is a big victory for the Obama administration and Democrats in Congress, who have been pushing for a delay amid growing concerns that too many Americans won't be ready for the currently scheduled Feb. 17 changeover.

The Nielsen Co. estimates that more than 6.5 million U.S. households that rely on analog television sets to pick up over-the-air broadcast signals could see their TV sets go dark next month if the transition is not postponed.

"Delaying the upcoming DTV switch is the right thing to do," said Senate Commerce Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., author of the bill to push back the deadline. "I firmly believe that our nation is not yet ready to make this transition at this time."



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=6736599
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Advertisers Are Worried That Too Few Eyeballs Will Be Watching
eom
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. It's not the advertisers
it's the networks. February is a sweeps month, where advertising rates are set for the next period till sweeps again. If the networks have ten or twenty percent of their audiences fizzle for the remaining couple of weeks of the month, there's a lot of advertising dollars they have to see fly away.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
55. wrong -- Feb sweeps were postponed
While the networks have been supportive of the delay, individual stations -- who also care about advertising -- have not. Why? Because it costs a lot of money -- particularly electricity costs -- to simultaneously transmit an analog and a digital signal, which is what most broadcasters have been doing for some time now.

That being said, I think the delay was the right move, both from a political standpoint and a practical standpoint.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #55
75. Damn, didn't know that!
And here I was, looking forward to some killer episodes of "Big Bang Theory"! We didn't have a February sweeps of usual proportions last year because of the writer's strike.

Ah, well, I'm sure there will be yet another cry to postpone when June gets here!
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. will this get done right after our switch to the metric system? n/t
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Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. Not if the Stonecutters have their way
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lanlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
38. LOL
as in, never.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm sorry, I don't get it.
Whatever the reason for the change to digital, we've had this transformation pounded into our heads for going on at least a year now. How can folks "not be ready" by now? It's a television format swap. Weren't they giving converter boxes away?
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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. We've had it pounded into our heads for the last 10 years.
And it keeps getting pushed back.
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ChromeFoundry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. The only reason for the switch is for the sale of the frequencies in the spectrum.
The FCC took in $20 billion in 2008 by auctioning off "some" of the airways opened up by the analog-to-digital switch.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Seriously. They announced this almost ten years ago.
They've ran about a million ads reminding people, every sales flyer for months has included really cheap (or completely free after coupon) converter boxes.

At this point the only people who haven't got the message are sufficiently out of it that a four month delay will only help if somebody goes out to their house, explains the situation in very small words and then wires the whole business up for them.
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ChromeFoundry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Wouldn't it have been nice to see even one of those converter
boxes with a "Made in the USA" sticker on it? How many billions did the US government, our tax dollars, throw offshore?
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Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
40. I agree. And how long before there's a glut of unneeded converter boxes to dispose of?
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
56. there are three million coupon requests on hold because the program's funding is screwed up
So its not just a matter of helping people who haven't been paying attention. Millions of people who have requested coupons have been put on a waiting list. In addition, when the transition occurred in Wilmington NC in September, it went pretty smoothly, but there were still a lot of calls for information from people having trouble getting their boxes to work etc. Extrapolating to a national transition, it is expected that between one and two million people will try calling for assistance. Yet, the outgoing repub chairman of the fcc didn't get around to awarding contracts for call center assistance until a coupld of weeks ago (even though bids were solicited in September).

Its not a question of having symptathy for those who've done nothing. Rather, its a matter of treating those who've taken the necessary steps fairly -- the governmetn subjected them to this and the government screwed up the coupon program and the call centers. People have been woefullly ill-advised about the fact that they should be hooking up their boxes now to see how they work, not wait until the transition actually occurs. The gov also did a poor job of alerting people that because of differences in signal coverage areas, they may need a different antenna than the one they have or may need to reorient the antenna. Again, the government screwed up it up and therefore its appropriate for the government to enact a short delay to try to clean up some of the mess. THere always will be some people who keep their head in the sand. But those who need assistance -- primarily older viewers, lower income families, non-English speakers -- well, I understand the repubs not giving a shit about them. I'm more surprised by the lack of empathy towards them by some DUers.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
69. The Coupon Program Has Run Out of Money
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. hey look, duplicate post
Edited on Mon Jan-26-09 10:31 PM by LeftyMom
Yay me! :eyes:
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teknomanzer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Maybe buying a converter box or HDTV is a low priority...
when you aren't getting a regular paycheck. Just in case you weren't aware of it - there is a bit of a problem with the economy right now. People are losing their jobs, or did you not catch that bit of news.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Your concern, being noted
did you not see this part of my post before you knee-jerked yourself into traction?

"Weren't they giving converter boxes away?"

Have a nice day.
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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #17
39. Maybe they're giving them away in Florida, but not here
There are plenty of people in this part of the country who couldn't afford the difference between the coupon value and the amount charged for the boxes - and that's if they even had a coupon. As of 1/26, approximately 2 million households were on a waiting list for coupons. To make matters worse, these are the same people who are least likely to have a late model TV or a cable/satellite subscription.
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uncle ray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #17
48. you are misinformed on them being free.
so given that, there stands a pretty damn good chance there are lots of people who are otherwise misinformed of the transition and not ready.

way to make the case for the other side.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
73. NO, they are NOT giving them away
anyway not in California!
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. As far as I understand it, the government coupons
cover $40 out of the $60 a converter box costs, leaving $20 to come out of the consumer's pocket. The DTV ads have been running for over a year, but for argument's sake let's just call it 50 weeks. Those who are in such financial dire straits that they can't save 40 cents a week should be doing something other than watching TV anyway, and those who aren't ready out of stupidity, ignorance or neglect should be left behind. Out of over 111 million households, we're going to delay this for 95% of them for four more months because a whopping 5% of them aren't ready after over a year of reminders given with amazingly annoying frequency?

I can raise the money for a converter box sitting on a sidewalk for a few hours with a cardboard sign and a plastic cup. This delay is stupid, it's bullshit, it's beyond logical description. Anyone who isn't ready can and should just suck it up.



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teknomanzer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. So whats the big rush...
Are you waiting to bid on the air wave bands that will become available? Its not as though the government stands to make any windfall revenue from the sale - it will hardly make a dent in the amount being shoveled over to the bailout beggars right now. So what exactly is your position in this other than putting people down for not upgrading to the latest and greatest bullshit technology?
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Because if a switch is inevitable and 95% of the country is ready,
it will cost us a lot less than it will to keep up this horseshit for four more months. I don't like the fact that the government passed an entitlement program for digital TV anyway, and we have much bigger fish to fry than this. Four more months will cost us millions, pester the shit out of many of us who have been ready for well over a year, and should be very low on our list of priorities.

As you snidely pointed out earlier, a lot of us are having tough times now. Let's see the government focus more on that and less on horseshit like this. If 95% of the country is ready after a full year's warning, delaying it is just stupid. As far as I'm concerned, screw the 5% who aren't ready. They've had enough time.

I get four years' advance notice to renew my driver's license. If I'm not ready to do so, should I be given four more months?
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Rush? This had been in the works for years and has been delayed before.
This was supposed to be the time it really, really happened. You mean people really couldn't afford $10 for a converter that would give them a better picture and more channels forever? In the months and months it has been announced people could have come up with $10 from in their couch.
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #29
42. YES!
:applause:
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
57. the myth of it having been "delayed" before.
It keeps being said that the transition has been "delayed" previously. That however is a distortion of the facts. Here are the facts:

Congress initially handed off the decision as to what the transition deadline should be to the FCC in 1996, and in early 1997 the FCC (which initially proposed a fifteen year transition) decided tentatively that it might be possible to complete the transition in ten years. But that was just a tentative conclusion -- the FCC said at the time that it would review and reconsider the timetable every two years. But just a few months later, long before that first review even occurred, as part of the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, Congress decided to ratify the December 31, 2006 deadline, but to create a major loophole in it -- namely that the transition would not occur on that date for any markets in which fewer than 85 percent of the households had the capability of receiving digital signals. That "loophole" effectively extended the deadline to a date uncertain. In late 2005/early 2006, having come to the realization that the transition might never occur under the then-applicable standard, Congress bit the bullet and mandated a "hard date" --February 17, 2009. In so doing, Congress actually moved up the deadline, rather than delay it.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
44. You must be in one of the areas where you can actually
receive digital signals.

Unfortunately, I am not - short of a trip to the rooftop to see if a new rooftop antenna will help. A good UHF/VHF antenna with separate amplifier controls for each frequency range gets me only one PBS station (off and on), 5 versions of All Jesus All the Time, and ABC (if I stand in front of the TV with the gain turned completely down on VHF holding the VHF antenna with both hands).

Personally, I am glad for an additional 4 months of TV before it disappears or I have to pay a monthly fee. I am just fine with my very fuzzy analog, and really would prefer they not switch at all. Despite your assertions about how easy and cheap it is, for some of us it isn't just a matter of buying a digital converter box.

With any luck, when they play musical frequencies on the switchover date they will also boost their broadcast power and I'll be able to get more stations. I am hoping that will solve the problem - but they aren't bothering to test their real life broadcast conditions until the switchover date, so I have no way of knowing. Frankly, I'd rather find out in June than February because the next option involves climbing on top of my roof to replace an antenna (which is theoretically already designed for UHF) to see if that does any good. If it does, and I want to watch TV in more than one room, the next expense will be to rewire the house since currently only one room is wired to the rooftop antenna.
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FredStembottom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. i'm right in the city.....
...with a rooftop antennae and digital TV still can't stay on, uninterrupted, for an entire show.
Every bird flying by interrupts it.
Rain interrupts it.
Snow.
Fog.
I think farting knocks it off, too.
Chewing with your mouth open just totally devastates the signal.

It's a high-quality joke!
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Oh, good -
since I'm 50+ miles of rolling hills from the nearest major station's broadcast I have lots to look forward to, assuming I can ever actually lock on to a signal.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
27. You know, I've worked 1 40 hour week since May and somehow I could afford $10
for a digital converter box that gives me a better picture and twice as many channels as analog. I get my tv free and over the air and in the last 3 years it is the only money I have spent on tv. So I don't buy the "I can't afford it" argument. Ten bucks is about 2 movie rentals or a ticket to see a first run movie at a theater. Even if it was the full price of the $49.99 model I bought it would be worth it for what I get in return, such as 3 PBS stations instead of 1.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
51. Most of my friends have already spent $$'s to
be ready in time.

This is a shame.
People spent their food money in order to get these little boxes. :puke:
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. No, they were never giving away converters - they were giving coupons, and they RAN OUT.
LOL And even after the coupon, it's about $27 (incl. taxes). As others have said, seems like a lot when you are struggling just to survive, and with 50+ million Americans without health insurance, I kind of wonder if that should be a priority.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
72. $27? Try $10. Converters could be had for $49.95. That's what we paid for two different ones..
And if you had to pay tax (on the whole amount), that added,
what, $2.50-$5.00 more?

Tesha

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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
68. It's Not the Converter Box, It's the ANTENNA TOWER
That we, and many others, would need to receive any over-the-air TV AT ALL
since they are moving almost everything to much-shorter-range UHF channels.

I have had a digital tuner for a couple of years. There are no digital signals
strong enough to receive, despite a roof antenna and an amplifier.
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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. Just get it the fuck over with and turn it off.
There's much better things that can be done with the spectrum other than analog TV. Digital TV is available pretty much everywhere in the USA (via either cable or satellite) and the extra spectrum can be used for public safety and high speed wireless internet. Maybe we could actually get a little closer technologically to the Asian markets.

TV is a luxury, not a necessity, and the time has come for analog tv to be put out of its misery. That along with analog cinema should be trashed. Why the hell are they still putting moves out to the theater on film, when all of these theaters have digital projectors that broadcast the ads and previews 20 minutes before the movie? But that's a totally different rant.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. Good. Not everyone has cable and cable does go down
as we had for almost five days. Thankfully, we still have one small rabbit eared TV that allowed me to watch the inauguration.

I think that they should enter an item to this legislation that cable companies have to at least perform "triage" when someone calls that cable is down - send someone immediately to at least see what the problem is.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
71. I agree
I'm very glad they're putting it off. This whole thing is going to be a gigantic mess.
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. Not on hold yet. Must pass in the House & if it does then goes to Pres. n/t
Edited on Mon Jan-26-09 10:22 PM by Garbo 2004
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mwooldri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
31. Given the governmental makeup...
... if there's any trouble-area for Obama getting anything through Congress right now until 2010 it's the Senate.

I don't see any problem with the House passing similar legislation and Obama signing it.

Mark.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
58. well, since it was Obama's request that the transition be delayed that started the ball rolling
I think you can rest assured that its going to happen.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. That's because too many
Americans are too damned stupid to understand the simpler aspects of the entire mess: you have cable or satellite, there is NO problem--you don't have to do diddly; use an antenna exclusively, buy a new damned TV or a converter box. That's all people have to remember. Of course, the sky is falling, must get a new TV, yada, yada, yada has been good for manufacturers, but taxes the minds of the pure simpleton couch potatoes.

This delay, while I think it shows an extraordinary amount of patience, isn't going to help--when June comes around, the procrastinating public will continue to run aimlessly about, with still nary a clue about the whole deal.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. As an addendum
I'm a couch potato, too, but I know I'm not THAT friggin stupid. It's not all of TV Land which is uncomprehending, just the same ones who voted for Bush--twice.
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Duckhunter935 Donating Member (777 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. agreed
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Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
41. This delay is stupid; keep the orignal schedule and get on with it.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
53. And you have tested the everywhere that currently
receives analog signals?

>>use an antenna exclusively, buy a new damned TV or a converter box. That's all people have to remember.<<

I use an antenna exclusively and currently get about a dozen channels. With digital, I get one reliably (5 flavors of "All Jesus All the Time), PBS over half the time, and ABC if I turn cartwheels underwater while singing America the Beautiful (if you really want to know what I have to do, I posted it earlier in the thread).

I have a set top antenna (both UHF and VHF) with separate amplifier controls, and a rooftop antenna. I am neither a member of the "procrastinating public" nor a "simpleton couch potato."

The simple reality is that digital signals cannot be rendered into an image everywhere that analog produces a viewable image. An additional reality is that the situation may change on the day of the switchover when many stations trade frequencies - and some may boost their signals. I do not plan on investing in a second/replacement rooftop antenna until after the switchover, as it may not be necessary. If it turns out to be necessary, I would prefer to be crawling around on my rooftop in June rather than February.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #53
76. I have been there
at one time. No channel came in at all for CBS except for three different flavors of static. I at one time thought satellite was a luxury, but I can no longer live without at least basic satellite. I have about six channels that I watch on a regular basis, and two of them are CBS. ;)

Actually, my gripe was less than informed audience members and the dimwits who have been hiding in a cave and have completely ignored or procrastinated the entire issue for too long. I believe I said it was the same group who voted for GWB--twice.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. I just get really annoyed with the rant that the switchover
is only impacting people who have been procrastinating, etc.

I saw, for the first time today, formal acknowledgment that there will be a significant portion of the population that will go from being able to receive free, over the air broadcasts to not being able to do so. Up until now, all of the publicity has been on - get the right box and you'll be fine. That is not the case.

I have no intention of paying for TV, and I resent the fact that this switchover makes the broadcasts that are intended to be free, over the public airways, broadcasts inaccessible - and perhaps even more - I resent the "only stupid morons aren't ready for this" rant that I hear every time I cheer at (perhaps) being able to access broadcasts for 4 more months before the lights go out.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. I just read an article about the people who have
known about all of this for awhile, and waited before even putting in their converter box, and now can't get the signals. When I first read about it all, I checked out what was being publicized and immediately dismissed it all when I read no action was necessary for those with satellite or cable. I gladly pay for satellite in order to get the best reception because I have been so frustrated at bad signals. And as TV has been my life at times (I worked in entertainment and in publishing), it satisfies me to do what I can to ensure I get it.

I know a lawyer who had a TV set strictly to watch specials on PBS--nothing more. And I'm sure she would join you in agreeing that paying for a signal is not agreeable.


On the other hand, is your set fairly new? I believe I saw that you don't need a converter box at all if your set was manufactured after a certain year, as they are digital-capable. I don't know if that applies.

Another thing you might consider is a TV tuner card for the computer--you can also get software to process those signals into AVI or MPEG files that you can put on DVDs. That's mainly how I have been "watching" this winter--I TIVO my shows, transfer them to the computer and burn DVDs from them. After nearly twenty years of collecting VHS tapes, DVDs are manna from heaven both in cataloguing and in storage space. I save on heating, because I confine myself to the bedroom/second office, and I stay warmer and more comfortable. I'll move back into the cold office once the weather gets better, but right now I have no intention of getting cold.

If I can be of further help, let me know.
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. I have a converter box
and 5' rabbit ears, plus a UHF antenna, the most powerful amplifier they sell, with separate gain controls for each frequency range, and (in one room) a roof antenna. The signal is just not powerful enough to render a digital image, even though I can get those same stations in analog. Bad signals don't really bother me (and as far away as I am from the stations, bad is what I get).

My computer would be picking up signals from the same source as my TV would, so it is highly unlikely that I would have access to any additional stations using a TV tuner card.

DVDs are fine for some things, but they don't give me access to current local news (or emergency broadcasts) or other local broadcasts.

As far as having a converter box and not bothering to try it - it's silly, but it still wouldn't resolve one of the major issues. When we tested our box back when the weather was warmer, we knew it was likely we would have a problem. Unfortunately, the current broadcast conditions are going to change on February 17 - so we don't know for sure we will continue to have problems come February 17 when the stations switch frequencies and (perhaps) increase broadcast power. No point in spending a couple hundred dollars (or more) to install a new antenna if it will not ultimately be necessary. Unfortunately, I will only be able to find out after February 17 - at which point the roof will be icy and unsafe - so I can take the risks and crawl on the roof, or lose TV.

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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
60. no, its because the government fucked up royally
They mismanaged the coupon program so that as of Jan 5, the program was frozen. At present there are requests for 3 million coupons pending that can't be filled, even though only 20 million coupons have been redeemed and the program was budgeted for 33 million coupons.

Moreover, the government did a piss-poor job -- under the leadership of the repub FCC chairman and the repub head of NTIA -- of informing the public (1) that people should be rushing to get their coupons and boxes and (2) that people should hook up their equipment as soon as they get it to see if they need a new antenna or to adjust their existing antenna. Moreover, based on its test transition in NC, the government has known for months that more than 1 million people are likely to call the "help" numbers set up for the government -- but the outgoing fcc chair waited until early January to award contracts for running those call centers (even though bids for the contracts were solicited in September).

Let's take roll: Those who think extending the deadline is a good idea because of the last administration's mismanagement of the process: President Obama, Democratic FCC members Michael Copps and Jon Adelstein; former Democratic Chairman Bill Kennard. Senate Commerce Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller.

Who doesn't like the idea: republicans.
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. You've got to be kidding.
They've been advertising this for over a year. If those 6.5 million viewers have ignored the warning, too bad. Get this done now so that I can finally get a break from those stupid ads.
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clixtox Donating Member (941 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
35. Dare I say "Ditto"!


I was just back in the states for two months until last Sunday. I must have seen the ads and scrolls once or twice an hour every time I watched the Idiot Box.

I don't see any compelling reason to postpone the change any longer. Those who haven't done what is necessary, if anything, so far, are very unlikely to do anything until their TV goes blank. Then they will go out and get whatever they need within a few hours.

What they might consider doing is to place a "stupid" tax on all of those devices sold after the February change date and publicize the price increase. That might motivate the procrastinators.

I am surprised that the Democrats are making such a big deal about postponing the change. Are the less and less relevant TV networks still controlling the politicians? More likely it is the owners of the networks, like G.E., Disney, and Viacom who are making this timing decisions, or would like to be!
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #35
63. you might as well, since its repubs that oppose the delay
Those supporting the delay: President Obama, FCC Acting Chair Michael Copps, FCC Democratic Commissioner Jon Adelstein. Former Democratic FCC Chairman Bill Kennard.

those opposed: former repub FCC chair (and Dick Cheney acolyte) Kevin Martin; many house repubs.
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pauliedangerously Donating Member (843 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. They should go ahead with the cutover
The way I figure, most of the people who will be affected are simply incompetent. All the government has to do is task Walmart with giving away converter boxes afterward and everyone will be hooked up in no time.
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. You have a Walmart with a stock
of converters? Here, they sell out as fast as they come in. No waiting until afternoon to get them.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
26. how it works explained
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skyounkin Donating Member (722 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
28. LMAO!!
I knew this was gonna get pushed back!!!

HAH!!
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
30. Broadcasters want the change because it is costing some stations thousand$ a month
to broadcast both an analog and a digital signal. Two of my stations have already announced they will be switching off their analog signal on the 17th of Feb. I am betting there will be stations whose analog transmitter breaks down and they cannot find replacement parts.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
59. Yep. A local station here just announced they're switching anyway.
Most TV stations converted to digital one or two years ago and are incurring large expenses to broadcast in both. They didn't see the original cutoff date as a deadline, but as the date they get to cut expenses by turning off redundant hardware. After years of planning, most stations aren't going to be interested in incurring even more expense when they don't have to.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. its not going to be so easy for them to switch just because they want to
There has been a process in place for stations to switch early for more than a year. It requires filing a request with the FCC at least 90 days in advance and the running of notices on air for sixty days. That is the same process that will govern stations that want to switch between Feb 17 and June 12.

So at mininum, any station that had planned on waiting until Feb 17 would have to wait until May before they could switch. And the reason most stations that were ready to switch didn't request permission to switch early is that they didn't want to be out there with access to a smaller audience than their competition.

Some may try to switch early, but its not going to be widespread imo.
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TroubleMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
32. With a government coupon, you can buy a converter box for $5-$10.

Let's just hope they print more coupons. I was thinking of scooping one up just in case.
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uncle ray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #32
49. there's part of the problem.
they gave the coupons to everybody until the money ran out, instead of basing it on actual need. they should have been giving free boxes to the poor and charging full price to those who can afford the $60 or so.

if you get one "just in case" that is $40 the govt allocates to YOU and is now unavailable to someone who actually needs it. it's more than just printing coupons, the givt actually shells out the 40 clams to the retailer.

i can see both sides of the debate. in anticipation of the switch i finally made the plunge and got a new TV, and yes the digital picture is great, luckily i'm in an area that gets great reception. however my friends just a few miles up in the mountains get zero digital signal. and my old tv doesn't work with the converter, oh it's SUPPOSED to, but the converted signal doesn't display properly on the old set.
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mwooldri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
33. IMO start OFF with a 4 month hold...
and during this time re-do the switch over plan.

Change it thus:

1) Switch over AREA by AREA... with a new completion date of 2012.

2) Re-do the coupon program so it's targeted assistance. I really didn't need the coupons (since I have cable) but the cheap boxes were nice and I know I can now still get TV even if the cable goes out. But just a coupon program isn't going to cut it, I would follow up with an INSTALLATION program for those who need it, with the Feds bearing the cost.

3) Require broadcasters to broadcast at least two channels per broadcast frequency allocation with unique programming ... if done right, over the air TV can be billed as a "free cable lite" package, with extra channels that make it worth getting a converter box for.

The UK's digital transition is like this... though 3) is souped up somewhat... they went from 4 channels to effectively 25... though they're not going HD until later this year (and it'll require new hardware for HD).

Mark.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
34. I don't think we need a change like this either with a new administration just coming in ---
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Steerpike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
36. Boy that figures...
I just picked up a Sony Bravia 36 inch digital HD Tv. I hooked up a halfway decent antenna and can pick up some of the Digital stations that are broadcasting here in anchorage (50 dollar). But, they won't go full power till they drop their analog signals. And some stations are not broadcasting programming. You just get a black screen that ID's the station.
If we are gonna do this...let's do it...
Once it goes on all stations at full power I can hook up a real antenna and get Hi Def for free off the air. Right now I can get a couple of network stations and PBS. Sesame Street in HI Def is "liberating".
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
37. They oughtta go ahead and switch over for a few days, then switch back
For another couple weeks. That'll get the procrastinators off their asses. There are bound to be some problems with the switch anyway, and this'll give 'em a chance to work out the wrinkles. Then do the switch-over permanently once they've got it all down. Maybe a month more at the most.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
43. Bullshit.
It's simple: they're pushing it back because they need more "work" to make the switch popular.

They know too many are saying "fuck it, I'll read a book or go outside."
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #43
61. Nonsense
If its so "unpopular" why is there a waiting list for over 3 million coupons?

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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Because they are "free"
Without a substantial PR push, more substantial than what we've seen even, they know a good number of people will just tune out.

Any thread on this on DU, where people clearly have the time to muck around with the transition, shows a goodly number of people who won't bother. Viewership will decline, and what networks can charge for ad space will decline.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. then why did the broadcasters oppose the delay
The networks supported it because it was politically expedient to do so -- after all, the delay was first proposed by President Obama and was supported by the Democrats on the FCC and the Democratic leadership on the Hill. It was individual station groups -- like Sinclair -- that opposed it. They obviously aren't fans of losing audience share, but they don't want to bear the cost of running two transmitters.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
45. That means I could've waited 4 months before getting cable. Sigh. nt
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
46. For all you smart-asses who think that people who haven't made the switch
are "dumb" or "lazy": Has it ever occurred to you that maybe they're poor and/or elderly?

I've had some dealings with elderly people in my family in recent years, and most of them are downright technophobic. If it's more complicated than an on-off switch, they get all flustered. (The last technology that my mother wasn't intimidated by was the microwave oven. Seriously. She is baffled by CD and DVD players and just barely handles the TV remote.)

She will be fine during the digital transition, because cable is included in the rent for her assisted living apartment.

HOWEVER, there are a lot of older people living in small towns in rural Minnesota who would need a rooftop antenna to receive digital broadcasts. The smart-asses say, "Oh, you just might need a rooftop antenna," disregarding the fact that you need money to buy one and either 1) The physical ability and technical smarts to install one, or 2) the money to pay for someone else to do it.

I'm glad that you're affluent and technically savvy, but that doesn't mean that people who haven't transitioned yet are just lazy.
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Isn't it amazing how "liberals" can be so callous?
DU never ceases to disappoint me.

The voucher program RAN OUT OF MONEY. There are no more coupons available to get the converter boxes.

The converter boxes ARE NOT FREE! And the so-called "cheap" ones that are "free" with the coupon are never in stock ANYWHERE (at least in the greater Phoenix area).

Even with the converter box we don't get most of the channels. So now we'll have to invest in a new antenna and HOPE that works.

And as Lydia pointed out, there are many elderly people who are on fixed incomes, whose only link with the outside world is TV. But I suppose they should just "suck it" as was posted, and be content with radio.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
67. I imagine that many people who can actually dig up...
Yup. I imagine that many people who can actually dig up "ten dollars in change from their couch" are still left with the decisions whether to purchase food or refill their prescriptions-- with a converter box pretty far down on the list of priorities. I imagine it must be pretty nice for a lot of people to look at twenty or thirty dollars as throwaway money. :shrug:

However, reading a lot of the comments on this thread really does illustrate to me that electronic entertainment has vociferously overtaken religion as the opiate of the masses-- myself included. We rarely hear churchgoers standing around the water cooler on Monday mornings talking excitedly about next week's episode of the minister's message, but when it comes to Lost or The Office or Gray's Anatomy, well... the excitement's there (and again, I'm just as guilty).
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SomeGuyInEagan Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
54. Four more months? Nice weather to take a hike, read under a tree ...
... play outside with my three-year-old, go sailing, etc.

For whatever reason the delay:

- it will hurt stations who are nursing along old analog equipment trying to keep some sort of analog signal transmitting their signal (becuase they have not been buying or replacing analog equipment any time recently);

- it will decrease the the number of complaints and increase the time to fix the problems, because more people play outside in the summer and watch less television;

- give industry more time to fix the known digital problems (please!);

- give stations more time to put digital amps in place within their ADI to boost signal throughout their market (here is to hoping that they do that!):

- give the FCC more time to hype the program to the public;

This whole thing has been a colossal mess since day one for everyone. I expect more delays.
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DaDeacon Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
66. TV is not a right! TV is leasure.
The converter issue is one that has been in the works for at least 4 years and the fact that people have ignored the warning/request/ reminders every day over at least the last 365...to hell with you. At some point if you are gonna make a change you have to make the change!
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divineorder Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. Television has become a utility
Tv has become the majority way for many, especially without internet access, to get news and weather and basic civic information. This is especially true with the poorest of the poor and the elderly, both groups are on fixed incomes.

BTW, the transition came too close to the holidays for me. Many people didn't have a whole lot of extra money for electronic equipment.

June will be better for installation, people will have a little extra time to save up for equipment, and some extra boxes may even be available for resale as some people simply upgrade their TV and get rid of their converter boxes.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #66
80. the transition will cause disruption whenever it occurs, but its the responsibility of the govt
to fix the problems with the transition that are the direct result of incompetence on the part of the repub administration, not those who tried to get ready, but couldn't because a coupon program budgeted for 33 million coupons was frozen after only 20 million were redeemed and because contracts to run the call centers set up by the FCC to answer questions about the transition weren't awarded by teh repub chairman of the FCC until a couple of weeks ago, even though bids were solicited in September.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
74. This I disagree with..
... can't this freaking country do ANYTHING?
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
77. Ehnn... What's an extra 4 months going to hurt?
So long as they don't continue to delay it for another N numbers of months after this, I don't see why it's such a big deal.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
78. House shot it down. As of now, D(TV)-Day is still Feb. 17*.
*-except in Hawai'i and Wilmington, NC, which have already switched.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3711189&mesg_id=3711189

The bill could be reintroduced under regular rules (requiring only a simple majority for passage), but the downside is that the repukes, following President Obama's lead on bipartisanship :sarcasm: , could then attempt to lard it up with hostile amendments. :eyes:
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
83. Great. Four more months of not being able to receive certain stations....
...because they can't ramp up and boost their digital signals yet.

Some people will never be ready. Everybody else must suffer I guess.
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