STOCK MARKET WATCH, Friday January 30

Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Friday January 30, 2009

Bush Administration Officials Under Indictment = 0
Financial Sector Officials Under Indictment = 0
Financial Sector Officials In Prison = 1

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON January 29, 2009

Dow... 8,149.01 -226.44 (-2.70%)
Nasdaq... 1,507.84 -50.50 (-3.24%)
S&P 500... 845.14 -28.95 (-3.31%)
Gold future... 906.50 +16.50 (+1.85%)
30-Year Bond 3.56% +0.13 (+3.64%)
10-Yr Bond... 2.82% +0.16 (+6.02%)

---

U.S. FUTURES & MARKETS INDICATORS
NASDAQ FUTURES..............................................S&P FUTURES

Market Conditions During Trading Hours

GOLD,EURO, YEN, Loonie and Silver

---

Handy Links

Economic Calendar    Marketwatch Data    Bloomberg Economic News    LayoffDaily    The Big Picture    Yahoo! Finance    Google Finance    Financial Sense    Calculated Risk    Naked Capitalism    Credit Writedowns    Brad DeLong    Bonddad    Atrios    LegitGov

---

Read more: du

Feelings aside: Is gold more likely a buy or a sell here?
BY DANIELLE PARK

Let me admit that I am no gold bug. Over the years at our management firm, we have bought gold and we have sold gold. We have made some money on gold a couple of times, but we have no particular attraction or affinity for it. It pays no income to hold it; it serves little practical purpose for humans or the planet. I find no reason to love it.

Our last trade in gold was a sell last May. As gold broke down from its $1000 peak, and gold shares began to tumble with everything else, our sell rules triggered and we sold our positions.

In recent months, as the global recession spread and risk markets imploded, we continued to chart gold faithfully. As Richard Russell pleads passionately for gold as world currency, we have read with interest and continued to chart gold carefully. As commentators have increasingly proclaimed the end of the US dollar and the irrelevance of fiat currencies, we have listened and continued to chart gold carefully. As GATA members proclaim government conspiracies to manipulate and control it, we have continued to watch gold carefully. As increasing throngs forecast the collapse of the world banking system we have continued to watch gold carefully.

....

The most bullish argument I hear for gold is that retail investors, now sacred out-of-their-wits by the global downturn, mistrusting governments and paper money, will continue to feverishly snatch up gold bars, coins, wafers and gold ETF's. Maybe they will; but for how much longer? They can’t eat or drink it. They can’t use it for shelter; it won’t pay them an income. Even gold-obsessed East Indians generally stop buying gold to collect when its price passes $750 an ounce. East Indian demand collapsed last year, with India’s gold imports plunging 81% in December.

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm

the fraud hasn't been stopped or even slowed down. It just keeps going until somebody pulls off the disguise. If Obama concentrated on rooting out and prosecuting fraud and providing income support for the lowest 50% of the population he'd see a lot more return to sanity faster than throwing tax cuts and bailouts to the GOP.

And if one were to act rationally in that kind of market, one would stay on the sidelines...

08:30 GDP-Adv. Q4
Briefing.com -5.5%
Consensus -5.4%
Prior -0.5%

08:30 Chain Deflator-Adv. Q4
Briefing.com 0.5%
Consensus 0.6%
Prior 3.9%

09:45 Chicago PMI Jan
Briefing.com 33.5
Consensus 34.0
Prior 34.1

09:55 Mich Sentiment-Rev Jan
Briefing.com 62.0
Consensus 61.9
Prior 61.9

10:00 Employment Cost Index Q4
Briefing.com 0.7%
Consensus 0.7%
Prior 0.7%

http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/Calendars/EconomicCalendar.htm

02. U.S. 4Q employment cost index up 0.5% vs. 0.7% expected
8:30 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

03. U.S. 2008 employment costs rise 2.6%, lowest on record
8:30 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

04. U.S. GDP up 1.3% in 2008, weakest since 2001
8:30 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

05. U.S. Q4 business investment subtracts 2.3% from GDP
8:30 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

06. U.S Q4 consumer spending down 3.5% vs 3.8% fall Q3
8:30 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

07. U.S. Q4 headline PCE down record 5.5%
8:30 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

08. U.S. Q4 core PCE index slows to 0.6% gain vs 2.4% in Q3
8:30 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

09. U.S. Q4 GDP final sales, GDP ex-inventories, down 5.1%
8:30 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

10. U.S. Q4 GDP weakness offset by inventory buildup
8:30 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

16. U.S. Q4 GDP contraction biggest since Q1 1982
8:30 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

17. U.S. Q4 GDP falls at 3.8% rate vs. -5.5% expected
8:30 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN3034899520090130

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The economy shrank at its fastest pace in nearly 27 years in the fourth quarter, government data showed on Friday, sinking deeper into a recession that the White House said demanded urgent action.

In a report that showed a broad-based contraction across nearly all sectors, the Commerce Department said gross domestic product plummeted at a 3.8 percent annual rate, the biggest drop since the first three months of 1982.

President Barack Obama, who is pushing Congress to approve a package of spending and tax-cut measures that could cost close to $900 billion, said the report highlighted the need for quick government action.

"It's a continuing disaster for America's working families," Obama said of the latest data. "The recession is deepening and the urgency of our economic crisis growing."

The decline, however, was not as deep as analysts had expected thanks to a $6.2 billion rise in inventories, a development that suggests businesses might ratchet back even more sharply in the first quarter, prolonging the year-old recession.

"Because fourth quarter GDP was supported by a dubious increase in inventories, today's positive data surprise is a significant burden for the upcoming quarters," said Harm Bandholz, an economist at UniCredit Markets and Investment Banking in New York.

The sharp drop followed a 0.5 percent pace of decline in the third quarter. It was the first back-to-back quarterly contractions in output since the last quarter of 1990 and the first quarter of 1991.

...more...

I just hope that the American public wakes up enough to actually realize that only under REPUBLICAN rule does this shit happen.

17. UMichigan consumer sentiment rises to 61.2 in January
10:05 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

18. Jan. UMichigan consumer sentiment below 61.5 expected
10:05 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

Faith-based polling?

21. U.S. Jan Chicago purchasing managers index 33.3% vs. 35.1%
9:57 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

22. U.S. Jan. Chicago PMI lowest since 1982
9:57 AM ET, Jan 30, 2009

The little bastard was success at something.

And we're not even getting any cheese.

SINGAPORE – Oil languished below $42 a barrel Friday in Asia as more dismal U.S. economic numbers offset news that OPEC may further cut production.

Light, sweet crude for March delivery rose 16 cents to $41.60 a barrel by midafternoon in Singapore in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The contract fell overnight 72 cents to settle at $41.44.

Grim U.S. news about manufacturing, housing and unemployment fueled investor concern that the worst recession in decades could be deepening, and further undermining demand for crude.

....

In other Nymex trading, gasoline futures rose 0.71 cent to $1.24 a gallon. Heating oil gained 0.67 cent to $1.44 a gallon while natural gas for March delivery fell 1.5 cents to $4.56 per 1,000 cubic feet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices

DAVOS, Switzerland (AFP) – OPEC members need an oil price above 50 dollars a barrel to make exports worthwhile, the head of the cartel said Thursday, adding that more production cuts were possible later this year.

"We are not happy with 40 even 50 dollars a barrel," OPEC Secretary General Abdallah Salem El-Badri told a panel discussing energy security at the World Economic Forum in Davos.

....

Tony Hayward, the chief executive of British oil group BP, told the panel that OPEC countries needed a price of about 60-80 dollars per barrel to balance their budgets and invest in social programmes.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090129/bs_afp/davosopecoil

$20, I could live with.

Did you notice how they changed the metrics involved. They used to say "They needed $12-14 a barrel to make a profit." Now it's $60-80 a barrel to balance their budgets.

Sorry assholes, but balancing your budget tends to bust mine. I try to do my part, with 2 fuel efficient cars and a motorcycle. Five years ago, I never thought I'd see the day when I'd need $10 to fill my Harley. I about shit, when it hit $20.

Once said a fool
it's so cute to pollute
so cool it won't be cool
but hot enough to grow more pot!

Or the world. Since Bush and Co. were largely acting as Exxon's reps, you might even be able to include them. Something like 30 years ago, Brazil committed to energy independence. It took a long time, but they did it. That could have been us. 6 Presidents could have committed us to breaking the oil habit, but failed to do so. Instead, we let Exxon lead our energy policy.

Our official energy policy of the last 30 years should have been to utterly destroy Exxon Mobil.

WASHINGTON – The country tumbled deeper into recession and probably logged its worst economic performance in a quarter-century during the final three months of last year as battered consumers and businesses throttled back spending.

The U.S. economy is deteriorating at an alarming clip as the housing, credit and financial crises — the worst since the 1930s — feed on each other in a vicious cycle that has proven difficult for Washington policymakers to break.

The Commerce Department is set to release a report Friday expected to show the economy shrank at a pace of 5.4 percent in the October-December period, a much faster descent than the 0.5 percent decline logged in the prior quarter. If economists' forecasts are correct, it would mark the weakest quarterly showing since an annualized drop of 6.4 percent in the first quarter of 1982, when the country was suffering through a severe recession.

.....

In the fourth quarter, analysts predict that sales of big-ticket or "durable" goods, such as cars, appliances and other manufactured products will be especially hard hit as many consumers retrenched and would-be buyers were unable to secure financing.

Big cutbacks by homebuilders — reeling from the collapsed housing market — and other companies also will figure into the fourth quarter's weakness. Trying to survive the downturn, businesses are scrambling to cut costs and that's taking a painful toll on the nation's labor market.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090130/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/economy

SINGAPORE (Reuters) – Japan sank deeper into recession with industrial output tumbling and inflation slipping to almost zero, while U.S. data later on Friday was also expected to mirror the worsening financial crisis.

Japan's industrial production fell a record 9.6 percent in December, with companies forced to cut output as demand for their cars, electronics and machinery waned, while annual core inflation slowed to a mere 0.2 percent.

Rising unemployment, slowing household spending and no improvement in the industrial outlook added to investors' fears that Japan was flirting with deflation and would post a horror GDP figure in February if exports do not bail it out.

....

U.S. and Japanese companies were providing daily evidence of how deeply the global crisis was biting, costing governments trillions of dollars and threatening millions of jobs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090130/bs_nm/us_financial

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama is playing to one of the Democratic Party's most reliable constituencies — organized labor — reversing a number of his predecessor's executive orders that critics regard as anti-union.

Labor leaders were to visit the White House for a second consecutive day Friday, where, a union official said, Obama was to abolish four Bush-era directives that unions opposed and then reintroduce Vice President Joe Biden's task force focused on the middle class.

.....

Among the George W. Bush-era executive orders that Obama was to reverse was one that allowed unionized companies to post signs informing workers that they are allowed to decertify their union. Critics claimed it was unfair because nonunion businesses are not required to post signs letting workers know they are legally allowed to vote for a union.

Two Democratic sources also said Obama would prevent federal contractors from being reimbursed for expenses that were intended to influence workers' decisions to form unions or engage in collective bargaining. A third Obama order would require federal vendors with more than $100,000 in contracts to post workers' rights under the National Labor Relations Act.

The final order would require service contractors at federal buildings to offer jobs to qualified current employees when contracts changed. For instance, rank-and-file workers could continue working on the same federal project even if the administrative contract expired.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090130/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_labor

BANGKOK, Thailand – Asian markets were mixed Friday, with Japanese stocks sinking amid dismal economic numbers and a string of quarterly reports from leading companies like Sony and Honda showing plunging profits.

Hong Kong's key index edged higher on speculation about an interest rate cut in mainland China or other stimulus measures. European markets rose in early trade as Wall Street futures strengthened.

....

Japan's Nikkei 225 stock average fell 257.19, or 3.1 percent, to 7,994.05 as investors reeled from a mounting pile of bad earnings reports and the latest economic data, which showed industrial production falling at a record pace and unemployment jumping.

Hong Kong's Hang Seng clawed back early losses to rise 0.9 percent to 13,278.21. South Korea's Kospi retreated 0.4 percent while markets in Singapore and the Philippines also lost ground. Australia's main index gained 0.4 percent. Markets in mainland China are closed all week for the Lunar New Year.

As trading got under way in Europe, France's CAC-40 rose 0.3 percent, Germany's DAX gained 0.1 percent and Britain's FTSE 100 rose 0.6 percent.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090130/ap_on_bi_ge/world_markets

Jan. 30 (Bloomberg) -- The Wall Street bonus, considered a sacred ritual, may become the industry’s biggest casualty as governments worldwide bail out financial institutions.

UBS AG was told to reduce bonuses after the Swiss government gave the country’s biggest bank a $59.2 billion lifeline. Bank of America Corp. is under pressure to scale back payouts after New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo subpoenaed executives earlier this week for information on compensation and President Barack Obama said just yesterday that bonuses handed out by banks represent “the height of irresponsibility.”

....

The worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, a $700 billion taxpayer bailout in the U.S. and the demise of three of the biggest securities firms -- Bear Stearns Cos., Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and Merrill Lynch & Co. -- didn’t deter investment banks from offering year-end rewards to employees on top of their salaries.

Financial companies in New York City paid cash bonuses of $18.4 billion last year, the sixth-most in history, even as they posted record losses, according to data compiled by the office of state Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aLZhlzIUX8hY&refer=home

After a year in which the Detroit Big Three automakers bled cash each quarter, Japanese automakers appear doomed to follow suit.

Honda Motor's quarterly results Friday signal that the automaker is set to suffer an operating loss of at least $3.7 billion from January to March. Vastly softer demand from the West, as well as a slowdown in Asia and Brazil and the yen's devastating surge, are threatening to drag Honda deep into the red.

....

As with other Japanese companies, Honda is reeling from the double whammy of adverse foreign exchange impact and an export slump. The yen's strengthening lopped 114.2 billion yen ($1.3 billion) off operating profit for the fiscal third quarter, which ended in December, according to the company's financial statement posted Friday. Honda said its guidance is based on 85 yen against the dollar and 110 yen against the euro for the fiscal fourth quarter from January to March, compared with averages of 103 yen on the dollar and 149 yen on the euro for the previous three quarters. The yen's gain erodes Japanese exporters' overseas earnings when repatriated.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/30/honda-loss-guidance-markets-equity-0130_markets03.html

for making bad cars that nobody wants. That might have caused the problems they had years ago. But this last year, Toyota, Nissan, and Honda have seen their sales figures plunge as well. In fact, Ford has looked pretty good compared to the Japanese carmakers. It's the recession. When you're worried about losing your job, either actually or potentially, you cut back on expenses. You eat out less. You cancel your premium cable package. You hang onto your old car a little longer.

It's those $70/hour jobs the auto workers have! If we just cut their wages we'd have cheaper cars! It's the unions' fault! We need to get rid of the unions! Then Honda and Nissan and Toyota. . . .




Oh, wait. They aren't union are they. And you say their sales are down too? I don't get it. I thought it was all about those union jobs and high wages. . . . . .

:sarcasm: just in case. . . . .


Tansy Gold, hangin' onto her 2000 Blazer with 151,000 miles on it

So it burns a little oil, all Saturns do.

I wouldn't be able to brag, but I locked the keys in the trunk and walked home in the snow for the spare key.

...it was all downhill, and I'm taking the bus back as soon as I thaw out. I hate this winter. 3 months already, and no signs of letting up. Starting early and leaving late this year, I guess. A new Ice age approaches. I am the flash-frozen

Demeter

It's been pretty thoroughly debunked here on DU. In fact, it might have been on SMW. Someone tracked it back to its origins--a slip of the math by a reporter. He took all labor related costs, including retiree pensions and health care, then divided by number of active employees. He forgot to include retirees in the divisor. The correct figure is closer to $17/hr. More precisely, $28/hr for more senior employees, only $14/hr for newer ones.

ISO adamantly refuses to accept it. I gave up trying to explain it to him. If he wishes to remain ignorant and deluded, who am I to deny him that pleasure? :evilgrin:

Tansy Gold

WASHINGTON — Two senior senators introduced legislation on Thursday to impose government oversight of hedge funds.

The legislation by Senator Carl Levin, Democrat of Michigan, and Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa, was filed as the Obama administration was preparing a broader legislative overhaul of the regulatory system, including an effort to more tightly regulate hedge funds.

....

Lawmakers have also signaled that they intend to take up legislation to more tightly regulate the markets. Meeting with reporters on Thursday afternoon, Senator Christopher J. Dodd, the Connecticut Democrat who heads the Senate banking committee, outlined an ambitious schedule for hearings next month on regulatory issues.

....

Administration officials have expressed a particular interest in tightening regulation over hedge funds, a move that was opposed by the Bush administration even though William H. Donaldson, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission under President Bush, tried to force the funds to register as investment advisers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/business/30bailout.html?ref=business

---

More reversals of Bush era policies! This is great!

Although the public might be better served by shutting them down entirely.

As it is, we have to wait for events to shut them down.

and I think he might be a little optimistic.

However, this will regulate only those funds headquartered in the US. The real problem is offshore, especially in the Caribbean. Two years ago, I read that there were 9000 hedge funds in the Caymans, alone.

The IMF had started to make noises about regulating all hedge funds. Then Wolfowitz got sent to the World Bank and the noises died immediately. Funny how that stuff works.

Eventually, they'll all be seen to be Ponzi schemes of varying ripoff potential. Until then, I'm sure they'll continue to fleece the greedy.

It seems every time his name appears in the news, it's something good.

But since they did their prat fall....

some find their balls sooner than others. :spray:

I am starting to think that Obama is such a chess player that these guys are not going to know what hit them until it is all said and done. At least that is my hope.

I think that's more apt.

And the late night comics thought that it would be hard to make jokes after Bush left office.

How's Babykins faring?

took 20 hours and has an A average. Shocked her mentor and finally told him she could play the sitar. He got on to her for not telling him sooner. She said she didn't want to tell him because she only started learning it this summer. He had her play and he (like her step dad that is teaching her)was shocked at how quickly she has picked it up. I think she might get an additional grant or department fund next year. Hubby is trying to line up some gigs this summer and wants her to play in the group. The wedding season is his busiest and she can make some good money. She is taking a workshop this semester on N. Indian music.

Hubby will be in Germany in Feb or March-before he goes to India for our neices wedding. It was interesting to watch an arranged wedding match in the making. He will be going with his tabla player and they will play a few concerts. PM me and I'll tell you more.

This was offered in context of his appearance on Fast Money at CNBC. His suggestions are:

You know the R's will pounce on that, and say, "See, we told ya he was a socialist!" During the S&L bailout, how did they avoid that word? Was there some other less communist sounding type of mis-labeling involved? Maybe by stressing this plan only "temporarily nationalizes" the Banks, it could overcome people's anti-socialist fears. But "temporary government management" might avoid some of those arguments.

to keep them open if their balance sheets keep hemorrhaging money from bad hedge fund paper.

Banks must keep a certain asset to debt ratio in order to stay open legally. Once they are below that ratio, their only options are either to merge with a solvent bank or close their doors. Nationalization would allow them to remain open with negative worth in the short term. Once they'd achieved legal asset to debt ratios again, they could be sent back to the private sector.

The Fed, however, needs to be nationalized, period.

This country's economy has always been a mixed one which is why it's been successful for so long. Only in periods where capitalism has been so favored over socialism as to come close to eliminating it has the misery index climbed and the economy started to crash. We're in one such period right now.

The balance will have to tilt the other way in the short term. Temporary nationalization of failed banks will be one way of doing it.

As we all have learned painfully, big banks are an essential part of
the national economic infrastructure which cannot be allowed to fail.
That clearly contradicts their status of private for-profit entities.
Why should a small group of private investors be allowed to extract
profits from providing most essential public service, and in doing that
be fully guaranteed by the government from failure? The only way to
protect any essential infrastructure (like roads, water, utilities,
healthcare, education, post office and, yes, lending instituions) is to
make it public and non-profit. Nationalizing the banks and taking them
non-profit could be one way of doing that. But even a better way will
be just taking all that bailout money and setting up federally mandated
not-for-profit lending agencies from scratch and allowing the commercial
banks fail and take all their enormous losses to the grave. Imagine
all the savings. No profits, no dividend payments, no $100 million bonuses,
no $50 million jets, no $1400 wastebaskets. A head of such an agency,
a government employee, would make $200k a year. Imagine how much lower
interest rates can such an agency charge its borrowers, and how much
higher rates it can pay its depositors? The only problem with this
solution is deciding what to do with the army of blood sucking parasite
racketeers currently attached to the commercial lending system.

nor should you want to. Nationalization while their balance sheets are too lopsided to keep them in business.

It's really the only way out.

as they should, after they go jobless, cold and hungry for a few months.
And those who don't want to, and are ready to continue being robbed blind
by the privileged few in the name of fighting the "horrors" of socialism,
will pay dearly for their ideological blidness. Saving capitalists and bankers
from ruin, only to let them rule us again into the next depression, and the next,
and the next - that is not the way out at all. Getting rid of them once and
for all is.

I've always done my banking at a CU. Non-profit, lower fees, higher interest paid on savings accounts, lower interest on loans, and what seems like a genuine concern for customer service. And regular banks hate them.

Maybe in LBN. I'm not sure.

It's all scary.


TG

Re: TJ, AJ

Those who tried and suffered the consequences: AL, JFK

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1017154189&play=1


-----
I think if all the bad toxic assets were all moved to a 'bad bank', there wouldn't be any good assets remaining in any of the banks.


:crazy:

But what few there are would probably, if managed correctly, pull everything back from the brink. That's usually the way it works.


Reminds me of a story I read back in elementary school in the 50s. This boy had a lovely peach tree and it was covered with little peaches. A man came along and saw the fruit and offered to buy the crop as soon as they were picked. The boy told him they wouldn't be ready for two more weeks. Unfortunately his younger sister heard "as soon as they were picked" but didn't hear the "two more weeks." Thinking she was going to help him, she began picking all the little peaches, and of course when he came back and found three fourths of his crop in baskets, he was devastated. Only a small portion of the peaches remained highup in the tree where the little sister couldn't reach. Of course, in two weeks the remaining peaches had benefited from all the water and sunshine and were the biggest, best peaches around. The buyer returned, recognized the superior quality of the peaches, and paid as much as he would have paid for the full crop of smaller fruit.

Back in those days, some of our reading material had lessons. . . . . .



Tansy Gold, who learned some of them.. . ..

This stupid idea has been floated more times than a rotten log.

Look... ALL it accomplishes is saving THE BANKS from themselves... They'll turn around and blithely
get themselves in exactly the same position.

It's more business-as-usual status-quo socializing-the-losses-privatizing-the-profits HORSESHIT!

While at the same time we (the common people/workers/taxpayers) are being told no-health-care-reform this year
so you can tell g'ma to forget about that operation... Just be patient... Walk it off!

I'm fed up... This'll be my only post today.

:grr:

DAVOS, Switzerland — Even as Congress looks for ways to expand President Obama’s $819 billion stimulus package, the rest of the world is wondering how Washington will pay for it all.

Few people attending the World Economic Forum question the need to kick-start America’s economy, the world’s largest, with a package that could reach $1 trillion over two years. But the long-term fallout from increased borrowing by the United Stated government, and its potential to drive up inflation and interest rates around the world, seems to getting more attention here than in Washington.

....

Over the long run, that could force long-term interest rates higher and drive down the value of the dollar, undermining the benefits that come with its special status.

....

While the focus in Washington has been on putting together a stimulus package that will attract broader political support when it comes up for a vote in the Senate, here in Davos the talk has been about the coming avalanche of Treasury debt needed to pay for the plan on top of the bailout measures approved last fall, like the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/business/worldbusiness/30davos.html?_r=1&ref=business

and can't say that I blame them:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/78a79954-eda7-11dd-bd60-0000779fd2ac,dwp_uuid=f6e7043e-6d68-11da-a4df-0000779e2340.html

Vladimir Putin last night told his Davos audience it must assess the causes of the first global economic crisis "without gloating" if it was to find solutions.

"In the last few months, virtually every speech on this subject started with -criticism of the United States. But I will do nothing of the kind," he said.

The concept of a unipolar world, revolving around US power, was "obsolete", Mr Putin said as he called for an "irreversible switchover" to a system of several strong reserve currencies rather than just the dollar.....

"The entire economic growth system, where one regional centre prints money without respite and consumes material wealth, while another regional centre manufactures inexpensive goods and saves money printed by other governments has suffered a major setback," Mr Putin said.

Mr Wen argued in turn that western countries had been dangerously negligent in their policies towards their financial institutions and that this failure, coupled with a culture of "low savings and high consumption", was behind the crisis.

Fiat money is fiat money. It always goes bust.

There will have to be a new definition of transfer--based solely on productive output and not open to inflation, deflation or counterfeiting. If it were theft-proof besides, we'd have the perfect solution.

Science fiction deals with this sometimes--electronic funds keyed to the individual and biologically accessed. the trick is to keep it honest.

Instead of financing it forever, why not pay the debt off, like Clinton showed us?

:evilgrin:



TG, still in a bad mood

I'm beginning to feel like that voice in the wilderness, with no desire to have my head served on a platter, though.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090130/bs_nm/us_usa_stimulus_28


WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Republicans in the U.S. Senate accepted on Thursday President Barack Obama's offer to search for a compromise on an economic stimulus bill that could end up costing around $900 billion, as long as tax cuts play a large role.

The Senate is expected to start considering the massive bill next week, following passage on Wednesday in the House of Representatives of a slightly smaller bill, without the support of a single Republican.

Vice President Joe Biden, in a possible bow to Republicans, said there could be changes in some of the bill's spending and tax provisions once House and Senate negotiators meet to work out a compromise bill next month..."We look forward to offering amendments to improve this critical legislation," Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell said.

For example, Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa told reporters, "We're going to try to make a case for more investment" while aiming to delete what he and fellow Republicans think would be wasteful spending.

Democratic amendments are expected as well. Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd said he might try to insert a 90-day moratorium on home foreclosures, which have been skyrocketing.



Congress is rushing to meet a mid-February deadline set by Obama for enacting the legislation aimed at lifting the economy out of a 13-month-long recession.


...One top Senate Republican left the door open to slowing down the bill next week. "Whatever we can do -- whether that is offer an amendment, whether it's voting against the bill because it could not be amended, whatever parliamentary opportunities are available to us, we will explore," said Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona, the No. 2 Republican.

The House bill was touted as costing $825 billion, but might be closer to $819 billion when accounting for its future impact on the deficit. The Senate bill, with different tax components, would come close to $900 billion.

MORE TAX CUTS

McConnell said a main goal for the Senate Republicans would be to increase the amount of tax cuts in the package so they amount to 40 percent of the overall measure, with the rest emergency spending.

The House-passed bill is closer to 33 percent being devoted to tax cuts -- not hugely different from McConnell's goal.

The Senate Republican leader's formula contrasted with what many House Republicans sought: only tax cuts and no new spending at all.

House Republicans, on retreat at the Homestead resort in Hot Springs, Virginia, were considering ideas for economic stimulus they could support.

"We'd like to see a 20 percent deduction for small business income. And obviously we'd like to see an expansion of bonus depreciation. That would be a very important improvement," said Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, ranking member on the Budget Committee.

The Senate will begin its debate next week with fresh statistics that likely will underscore the dire shape of the U.S. economy.

On Friday, the government will issue its latest estimate of U.S. gross domestic product. Many economists think it will show that the economy shrank at a 5.4 percent annual rate in the fourth quarter of last, which would be the worst performance since 1982.



(Additional reporting by Jeremy Pelofsky, Susan Cornwell, Tabassum Zakaria and Thomas Ferraro; Editing by Patricia Zengerle and Peter Cooney)

by voting unanimously against the stimulus package, then why invite them to the party at all? Call them obstructionists, do what needs to be done, and make them irrelevant.

Go right ahead and PROSECUTE BUSH.

I wish Obama would get a clue and stop trying to woo psychopaths. That way lies deception, betrayal, grief, and nothing good.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/reporters-notebook-long-live-private/story.aspx?guid={E1610606-75B3-4615-81F8-6C144C4FFCE5}&siteid=yahoomy


DAVOS, Switzerland (MarketWatch) -- Times are tough in the private equity business, but the industry will survive, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts founding partner Henry Kravis insisted Friday at the World Economic Forum's annual meeting.

"Private equity is not dead," Kravis said in a panel discussion on the global financial system at this year's gathering of corporate executives, politicians, regulators and others in the Swiss Alps.
Credit constraints have made deals more difficult, but not for the first time, he said, recalling a prime rate of 21% in 1979 accompanied by then-Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker's subsequent decision to slap on credit controls that barred non-purpose lending.

"That was tough," Kravis said. Things weren't much better during the savings-and-loan crisis of 1990-91 when credit essentially dried up.

It's a similar situation today in the wake of the banking crisis, but money is available from a range of sources, he said, and there are opportunities for private equity.

The next three years will see about $1.7 trillion in debt in the United States come due, with about $1.5 trillion of that investment grade. Over five years, the figure is $3 trillion, he said.

Unless credit markets thaw, "there's going to be a real need for private equity," Kravis said.
Commitments by sovereign wealth funds and other sources mean around $400 billion is available for private equity firms, he said.

And private equity firms can still raise long-term debt, albeit on a smaller scale and from different sources, Kravis said. Sovereign wealth funds and pension funds, for example, are willing to invest in debt.

Finally, the amount of leverage needed buy stakes in companies has "obviously come down substantially" due to much lower purchase prices.

William L. Watts is a reporter for MarketWatch in London.

Ex-lawmaker Wester Cooley is accused of investment fraud

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-briefs30-2009jan30,0,6953587.story

A former U.S. congressman from Oregon has been indicted on charges related to an investment fraud scheme that took more than $10 million from victims, federal prosecutors said.

Wester Cooley, 76, who served two years in Congress in the 1990s, was named in a seven-count indictment filed in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles.

Cooley, of Palm Springs, and two others are accused of soliciting hundreds of investors from across the country to purchase unregistered stock in Bidbay.com by falsely claiming that the company would be acquired by EBay Inc. at a substantial profit.

EBay officials said they had never discussed acquiring the company. Cooley could not be reached for comment.

The indictment alleges that Cooley laundered $1.1 million of the illegally obtained money in 2002 and failed to declare the income on his tax returns. Cooley was previously convicted of making false statements about his military record in an Oregon voter guide.

I thought I would.

He's a Republican, of course.



from here... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ajBriOOLhzqc&refer=home

the MSM only labels Democrats who are criminals, or in a pinch misidentifies Republican crooks as Democrats.

I'm wondering if Cooley was part of Newt's "Contract on America" gang.

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=i

Last trade 85.939 Change +0.470 (+0.60%)

A Contraction In U.S. GDP Supports Euro Bullish Technical Outlook

http://www.dailyfx.com/story/special_report/special_reports/A_Contraction_In_U_S__GDP_1233293044626.html

The U.S. economy is expected to have contracted by 5.5% in the fourth quarter as the fall out from the credit crisis crippled growth. Companies unable to generate cash flow through credit sources were forced to cut workers as they were unable to meet payroll expenses.



Fundamental Outlook

The U.S. economy is expected to have contracted by 5.5% in the fourth quarter as the fall out from the credit crisis crippled growth. Companies unable to generate cash flow through credit sources were forced to cut workers as they were unable to meet payroll expenses. The banking troubles also led to consumers and businesses retrenching which saw demand plummet and the downturn in the economy accelerate. The largest drop in growth since 1982 may weigh on the dollar and would support the bullish EUR/USD technical outlook. A better than expected print following the House passing the “Obama Stimulus” could be enough to spark optimism. That scenario could be dollar bearish if risk appetite leads to flows leaving U.S. treasury’s for riskier assets. However, the medium term effect could add dollar support as the U.S. economy will be viewed as the best poised to emerge from the current crisis and foreign demand for U.S. equities could push the greenback higher. In light of that view, greater contraction in the fourth quarter would support fears that the global economy is headed for a deeper recession and the risk aversion flows may spark a dollar rally.

...more...

US Dollar, Japanese Yen Remain Strong Ahead of US Q4 GDP Data - How Bad Will It Be?

http://www.dailyfx.com/story/dailyfx_reports/daily_fundamentals/US_Dollar__Japanese_Yen_Remain_1233267383060.html

The US dollar started the New York trading session off on a weak note today, only to rebound with the Japanese yen following the release of broadly disappointing US economic data, which added to lingering risk aversion in the markets. Durable goods orders fell for the third month in a row at a rate of 2.6 percent in December, while the annual rate of growth shows that orders are down 19.7 percent from a year earlier. A breakdown of the index shows that demand for nondefense aircraft was down a whopping 43.6 percent, as Boeing orders slumped to 44 in Q4 from 148 in Q3. Meanwhile, non-defense capital goods orders excluding aircraft fell 2.8 percent, bringing the 3-month annualized rate to -32.5 percent. As a gauge of business investment over the next 6 months, this does not bode well for growth and job prospects going forward. Indeed, labor market conditions already remain abysmal, as continuing jobless claims climbed to 4776K during the week ending January 17, which is the highest level since record-keeping began in 1967. As it stands, a Bloomberg News poll shows that economists expect that the February release of non-farm payrolls will show another half million job losses and a rise in the unemployment rate to a more than 16-year high of 7.5 percent from 7.2 percent. Finally, new home sales for the month of December proved to be very disappointing, as they plunged 14.7 percent to 331K, the lowest since record-keeping began in 1963. There had been a bit of optimism about the prospects for this release given the surprise jump in existing home sales, but it appears that the 9.3 percent drop in median home prices to $206,500 hasn't been enough to spur an increase in demand.

Looking ahead to Friday, there’s potential for the US dollar and Japanese yen to gain further, as the 08:30 ET advanced reading of Q4 GDP for the US is forecasted to contract for the second straight quarter at a rate of -5.5 percent, which would mark the worst decline since Q1 1982. The National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) has already declared that the US has been in recession since December 2007, but a plunge in GDP in line with expectations will only suggest that the contraction in growth will continue to be worse than previously expected. The Federal Reserve really has no room to make monetary policy more accommodative, so traders should watch for the impact of this report on equities, as a surge in risk aversion may only lead the US dollar (and Japanese yen) higher despite the disappointing fundamental scenario.

...more...

concerns about wholesale credit unions


1/29/09 U.S. Moves to Bail Out Credit Union Network

In the latest effort to prop up a sector of the finance industry, federal regulators on Wednesday guaranteed $80 billion in uninsured deposits at the powerful institutions that service the nation's credit unions -- a maneuver that shows how the economic crisis continues to ripple across the U.S.

Regulators also injected $1 billion of new capital into the largest of these wholesale credit unions, U.S. Central Federal Credit Union of Lenexa, Kan., after the firm on Wednesday posted an unexpected $1.1 billion loss for 2008. U.S. Central serves essentially as a main clearinghouse for the others in the network.

The vast majority of regular credit unions -- the bank-like cooperatives familiar to millions of account-holders nationwide -- are considered financially sound. Wednesday's moves affect only these wholesale credit unions, which number 28 and operate in the background to service regular credit unions.

In general, credit unions are considered to be among the most conservatively managed financial institutions. Nevertheless, a few of the wholesale credit unions have been hurt by losses on mortgage investments. As a result, regulators took action to minimize the chances of pain spreading.

more...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123318420520726249.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

(Mostly FICA/SS/Intragovernmental, all down.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 6,295,524,768,735.12 + 4,322,336,494,448.18
DOWN 240,130,414.24 + DOWN 7,977,240,773.00

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 306-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.27 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.81, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 14 seconds we net gain a another American, so at the end of the workday of this report, there should be 305,696,315 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html
Currently, each of these American's owe $34,733.36.
A family of three owes $104,200.09. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 22 reports in the last 30 to 33 days.
The average for the last 22 reports is 2,958,426,543.46.
The average for the last 30 days would be 2,169,512,798.54.
The average for the last 33 days would be 1,972,284,362.31.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 6 reports in 8 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging -0.71B$ per report, -0.44B$/day so far.
There were 81 reports in 120 days of FY2009 averaging 7.32B$ per report, 4.94B$/day.

PROJECTION:
There are 1,453 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 12.6 and 17.8T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
01/28/2009 10,617,861,263,183.30 BHO (UP -9,015,785,729.78 so far since Obama took office.)
(                 NOTE: That is up a negative amount. That's actually DOWN.)
Fiscal Year ends: Sep 30
Borrowed in FY1993: (Maybe later.)
Borrowed in FY1994: 281,261,026,873.94
Borrowed in FY1995: 281,232,990,696.07
Borrowed in FY1996: 250,828,038,426.34
Borrowed in FY1997: 188,335,072,261.61
Borrowed in FY1998: 113,046,997,500.28
Borrowed in FY1999: 130,077,892,735.81
Borrowed in FY2000: _17,907,308,253.43 Bill alone
Borrowed in FY2001: 133,285,202,313.20 Bill and George
Borrowed in FY2002: 420,772,553,397.10 All George
Borrowed in FY2003: 554,995,097,146.46
Borrowed in FY2004: 595,821,633,586.70
Borrowed in FY2005: 553,656,965,393.18
Borrowed in FY2006: 574,264,237,491.73
Borrowed in FY2007: 500,679,473,047.25
Borrowed in FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650.01
Borrowed in FY2009: 593,136,366,270.90 so far this fiscal year.

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
01/07/2009 -000,314,429,077.84 ---
01/08/2009 -027,599,431,464.26 -
01/09/2009 -000,568,123,287.98 ---
01/12/2009 -001,098,982,842.59 -- Mon
01/13/2009 -000,038,769,243.84 ----
01/14/2009 -000,515,208,818.51 ---
01/15/2009 +020,470,437,698.93 ------------**********
01/16/2009 -000,579,761,204.80 ---
01/20/2009 -001,254,116,733.01 -- Tue
01/21/2009 -000,225,946,840.81 ---
01/22/2009 -010,383,446,466.83 -
01/23/2009 -000,119,553,441.75 ---
01/26/2009 -001,004,948,620.76 -- Mon
01/27/2009 +000,188,054,837.85 ------------********
01/28/2009 -000,240,130,414.24 ---

-23,284,355,920.44 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008.
US borrowed $953,229,459,924.23 in last 132 days.
That's 953B$ in 132 days.
More than any year ever, except last year, and it's 94% of that highest year ever only in 132 days.
And it is over 100% of ANY dismal Bush, for any dismal Bush-year, ONLY IN 132 DAYS NOT 365.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3712351&mesg_id=3712397

(A first somewhat significant rise in the public debt under Obama. 14B$. Hidden somewhat by a 5B$ drop in the SS debt.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 6,309,860,670,347.08 + 4,316,436,749,783.77
UP 14,335,901,611.96 + DOWN 5,899,744,664.41

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 306-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.27 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.81, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 14 seconds we net gain a another American, so at the end of the workday of this report, there should be 305,702,486 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html
Currently, each of these American's owe $34,760.26.
A family of three owes $104,280.78. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 22 reports in the last 30 to 31 days.
The average for the last 22 reports is 3,281,068,859.04.
The average for the last 30 days would be 2,406,117,163.29.
The average for the last 31 days would be 2,328,500,480.61.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 7 reports in 9 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging -0.69B$ per report, -0.41B$/day so far.
There were 82 reports in 121 days of FY2009 averaging 7.34B$ per report, 4.97B$/day.

PROJECTION:
There are 1,452 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 12.6 and 17.8T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
01/29/2009 10,626,297,420,130.85 BHO (UP -579,628,782.23 so far since Obama took office.)
(                 NOTE: That is up a negative amount. That's actually DOWN.)
Fiscal Year ends: Sep 30
Borrowed in FY1993: (Maybe later.)
Borrowed in FY1994: 281,261,026,873.94
Borrowed in FY1995: 281,232,990,696.07
Borrowed in FY1996: 250,828,038,426.34
Borrowed in FY1997: 188,335,072,261.61
Borrowed in FY1998: 113,046,997,500.28
Borrowed in FY1999: 130,077,892,735.81
Borrowed in FY2000: _17,907,308,253.43 Bill alone
Borrowed in FY2001: 133,285,202,313.20 Bill and George
Borrowed in FY2002: 420,772,553,397.10 All George
Borrowed in FY2003: 554,995,097,146.46
Borrowed in FY2004: 595,821,633,586.70
Borrowed in FY2005: 553,656,965,393.18
Borrowed in FY2006: 574,264,237,491.73
Borrowed in FY2007: 500,679,473,047.25
Borrowed in FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650.01
Borrowed in FY2009: 601,572,523,218.40 so far this fiscal year.

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
01/08/2009 -027,599,431,464.26 -
01/09/2009 -000,568,123,287.98 ---
01/12/2009 -001,098,982,842.59 -- Mon
01/13/2009 -000,038,769,243.84 ----
01/14/2009 -000,515,208,818.51 ---
01/15/2009 +020,470,437,698.93 ------------**********
01/16/2009 -000,579,761,204.80 ---
01/20/2009 -001,254,116,733.01 -- Tue
01/21/2009 -000,225,946,840.81 ---
01/22/2009 -010,383,446,466.83 -
01/23/2009 -000,119,553,441.75 ---
01/26/2009 -001,004,948,620.76 -- Mon
01/27/2009 +000,188,054,837.85 ------------********
01/28/2009 -000,240,130,414.24 ---
01/29/2009 +014,335,901,611.96 ------------**********

-8,634,025,230.64 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008.
US borrowed $961,665,616,871.78 in last 133 days.
That's 962B$ in 133 days.
More than any year ever, except last year, and it's 95% of that highest year ever only in 133 days.
And it is over 100% of ANY dismal Bush, for any dismal Bush-year, ONLY IN 133 DAYS NOT 365.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3714329&mesg_id=3714544

Gold up AND so is the dollar.

This is very unusual.

Looks to me like the flight into the shiny yellow metal as a last ditch safe-haven is stronger than ever.

$1200?

$1600 (Jim Sinclair's number)?

More?




3 day US Dollar chart:

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=i

They had just released a new gold double eagle on the 22nd of January. It was pulled for sales a few days ago and repriced (at a higher price of course). It mentions that not a lot of gold is available for sale.

I think the U.S. Mint knew for sure about something we don't know about.

I wonder how high it will go?

Great double eagle btw - a replica of one originally designed but never released in 1907 (probably because the U.S. Mint in San Francisco was shut down due to the 1906 earthquake is my thinking on this).

http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&mpe_id=10101&productId=14708&intv_id=10551&evtype=CpgnClick&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&ddkey=ClickInfo



:dem:

I'm not into gold. Isn't this kinda expensive for a one-ounce, 24-karat gold coin?

it isn't simply bullion so it is likely going to be highly collectible plus being the 1st 24K Saint-Gaudens ever minted makes it even more unique and attractive, esp. to collectors.

NOTE: They will allow (at this time) one per household.

Price is a lot but gold sells for about 10% over spot which is at abt. $930.00 oz. right now (so approx. $1,000.00 an oz. to buy I'd think or close to it).

This coin was more affordable before they repriced it yesterday! :(

Check the prices for this on eBay. Some people (that I seriously doubt have them already!) are selling them for as much as $2100.00!

:dem:

Not recommending. Just saying.

I just have them a commodity. I try to get a good price for the amount. I am happy with bars and ingots.

Jan. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Gold rose, heading for a third straight monthly gain, as investors sought an alternative to holding cash. Silver also increased.

While gold is traded in dollars, the price in euros is up 14 percent this month and 6 percent in U.K. pounds as central banks lower interest rates and governments spend trillions of dollars to revive economies. Investment in the SPDR Gold Trust, the biggest exchange-traded fund backed by bullion, reached a record 843.6 metric tons yesterday.

“Central banks are going to start printing money and it’s not an ideal place for investors to be,” said Joel Crane, a metals strategist at Deutsche Bank AG in New York. “People don’t have faith in currencies at the moment. There is still an underlying faith that gold will go higher.”

Gold futures for April delivery rose $20.20, or 2.2 percent, to $926.70 an ounce at 12:35 p.m. on the New York Mercantile Exchange’s Comex division. A close at that price would leave the contract up 4.8 percent this month.

Silver futures for March delivery climbed 38.5 cents, or 3.2 percent, to $12.53 an ounce. A close at that price would be an 11 percent gain for January. The metal slumped 24 percent in 2008 while gold gained 5.5 percent.

/... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601012&refer=commodities&sid=aOTt9YY7as78

have been waiting for the price to go down so I can go in and pick it up on the week end-but it has spiked on the last few Fridays. I hate to buy it high. And they are right about it being tough to find. My friend in the coin shop sells it as soon as he get's it in. I may have to do silver for a while.

www.kitco.com

I bought my Krugerrands through them. It was a simple online order.

Six months ago, you could buy them with only a $15 premium. It's about a fifty dollar premium now, and Gold Eagles are even higher.

10 over spot. We have the same thoughts when it comes to gold and he is very very discreet.

Apmex, Tulving or California Numismatic Investments much better.

BullionDirect OK, but slow.

STAY AWAY from Northwest Territorial Mint. Might be 6 months or more before you get delivery.

I know a couple of people that have done business with them.

:thumbsup: :D

:dem: :kick:

I'm sitting here doing my taxes, and if I don't get a drink soon, I'll be follicly challenged by evening.

:beer: Several of them.

that we (Nurses) have started having a monthly happy hour, and hubby and our friends have a weekly happy hour. I haven't drank this much in years. I'm with you Dr Phool-drink up Shriners.

I haven't heard that one in a very long time. Thanks for the laugh,and have one for me!:toast:

joined service clubs, bowling leagues, bridge clubs, and lodges. It was an excuse to get away from the kids and have a few drinks with your buds. The older I get, the more I appreciate the wisdom of my parents and grandparents.

Theres-A, here' looking at you kid :toast:

:shrug:

and Dad chilled after work with his buds. Mom was active in the PTA. Folks don't seem to socialize much these days. Mom and dad also threw parties. It's not like they had lots of money.....Dad was a long haul trucker and Mom was a stay at home Mom when ever the family finances allowed.

Dow 8,000.86 Down 148.15 (1.82%)
Nasdaq 1,476.42 Down 31.42 (2.08%)
S&P 500 825.88 Down 19.26 (2.28%)
10-Yr Bond 2.844% Up 0.029
NYSE Volume 6,203,274,000
Nasdaq Volume 2,142,967,000

4:15 pm : Sellers claimed control of the stock market for the second straight session, pushing the S&P 500 2.3% lower Friday. That left stocks down 0.7% for the week.

Stocks actually began the session with a gain after investors reacted positively to a better-than-feared GDP report. However, a closer look at the data revealed conditions are hardly sound. According to the latest data, the U.S. economy contracted at an annualized rate of 3.8% during the fourth quarter, marking the steepest drop in economic activity since 1982. The decline was less severe than the 5.5% drop that was expected, but that was largely due to an unexpected increase in inventories. Consumer spending, which accounts for roughly 70% of economic activity, remains weak as consumption expenditures dropped at a 3.5% annual rate.

However, government spending increased modestly and is likely to be a bigger contributor going forward with the enactment of a major stimulus plan. Though the House of Representatives passed an $819 billion stimulus plan earlier this week, many pundits believe the plan will become ensnared in political partisanship. There is also doubt that such a plan would have an immediate stimulative impact. Other initiatives, like a plan that would allow banks to sell their risky assets to an FDIC-run "bad bank," are being treated with skepticism since the plan would like prove to be an expensive stabilization program, not a cure-all.

Without a clear, effective remedy for banks at hand, financial stocks remain under pressure. The sector closed 2.5% lower with particular weakness in regional banks (-6.5%) and diversified financial services companies (-1.8%).

A lack of leadership weighed on the other sectors. Energy periodically sported a gain throughout the session, but still finished 1.2% lower. Industry giant Exxon Mobil (XOM 76.48, -0.52) posted better-than-expected earnings, but finished lower after spending almost the entire session trading higher. It failed to inspire a broader advance even though it is the largest company by market cap.

Online retailer Amazon.com (AMZN 58.82, +8.82) bested earnings estimates with ease; its shares logged their best single session performance since mid-2007 by surging almost 18%. It failed to share its strength with other stocks, though.

In other earnings news, Procter & Gamble (PG 54.50, -3.72) met analysts' estimates, and offered an in-line outlook. Industrial outfit Honeywell (HON 32.81, +0.14) did the same. However, the earnings announcements were largely relegated, given the implications of the day's economic data.

In the end, the week finished on a disappointing note as all 10 major sectors finished the session lower. Not one sector is showing a monthly gain. DJ30 -148.15 NASDAQ -31.42 NQ100 -2.0% R2K -2.1% SP400 -2.6% SP500 -19.26 NASDAQ Adv/Vol/Dec 866/2.09 bln/1797 NYSE Adv/Vol/Dec 791/1.51 bln/2224

:rofl:

:rofl:

"Transparent" doesn't do it justice.

Eighty-Six

Verb

(colloquial) To cancel an order for food.
"eighty-six the ham and eggs for table two!"
(colloquial) To remove an item from the menu.
eighty-six the lobster bisque - we won't have the lobster delivery until tomorrow.
"Yes, I'd like the tomato soup." / "I'm sorry sir, that's been eighty-sixed - would you like a salad instead?"
(colloquial) To throw out; discard.
"We finally had to eighty-six that old printer after it jammed one too many times."