Obama to Appeal Detainee Ruling

Source: New York Times

Obama to Appeal Detainee Ruling

By THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: April 10, 2009

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration said Friday that it would appeal a district court ruling that granted some military prisoners in Afghanistan the right to file lawsuits seeking their release. The decision signaled that the administration was not backing down in its effort to maintain the power to imprison terrorism suspects for extended periods without judicial oversight.

In a court filing, the Justice Department also asked District Judge John D. Bates not to proceed with the habeas-corpus cases of three detainees at Bagram Air Base outside Kabul, Afghanistan. Judge Bates ruled last week that the three — each of whom says he was seized outside of Afghanistan — could challenge their detention in court.

Tina Foster, the executive director of the International Justice Network, which is representing the detainees, condemned the decision in a statement.

“Though he has made many promises regarding the need for our country to rejoin the world community of nations, by filing this appeal, President Obama has taken on the defense of one of the Bush administration’s unlawful policies founded on nothing more than the idea that might makes right,” she said.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/11/world/asia/11bagram.html

It was bullshit for him, and it's bullshit for Obama.

..........that I can trade you for a bridge.

And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie

Do ya?

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

For the legal minds to come up with the reasoning as to why this isn't what it appears to be on the surface.

Let's just face facts folks, what the man said during the campaign and what he's really going to do are on opposite sides of the field.

Almost like a typical politician.

a list of Obama's positions could be shown, and one could answer simply yes or no that you agreed with it or not. This decision and FISA have me quite upset.

in a law suit. Sooner or later these detainee's will find a way to have their cases be heard, or get paid enough money to go away.

to pay off all these detainee's. I don't think they'll go for a mule and 40 acres.

I have no problem with that, do you?

by your government..but thanks for offering.

Bank of America (read Bank Screws America).

It certainly doesn't have to defend a previous administration's policies that the American people overwhelmingly opposed.

I pass by one of those Obama murals every day. The portrait of a man promising change. With the single word "Hope."

I have little hope for any change with this man who is now president. I suspect I am not alone in that.

that one man will change anything. I suspect you are correct in thinking that there are others who also believe that one person can do, and will do all that is desired. Don't worry..'next time' you can vote for someone else and repeat the process.

protest in the streets.

On Nov 4th, an extremely peaceful overthrow of a corrupt government leader. Obama has massive political capital it is getting high time that he use it.

Just playing its role. The DOJ has total control over the suit. It does not have to appeal and could end it at any time.

I at no time said the government was a 'neutral observer'.

There is absolutely nothing stopping the government from ending the appeal.

should have stuck with selling the cars I wish. :(

Can we say NO WE CANNOT yet?

The people in Afganistian are much different from GITMO

you are aware that given the US and Northern Alliance were paying for Taliban that many people dobbed in/handed over to US forces were the victims of petty score settling right?

Why are the people in Gitmo (uncharged as of yet for the "crime" of fighting with what at the time was the government of Afghanistan and held for years) different?

I was...

The reservations and fears I had about an Obama presidency are WORSE then what I imagined.

He is a frontman. A very clever frontman that diffused the revolution building against Bush.

no one is going to buy that song and dance.

You've despised Obama from jump street.

the Obama administration for now wants to stick with a policy set by President George W. Bush that those incarcerated by U.S. troops in foreign prisons have no U.S. legal rights. But officials said that did not foreclose a change of heart after the completion in July of a comprehensive review of detainee policy.

"While that review is pending, we concluded that it was necessary to appeal this ruling," said Justice Department spokesman Dean Boyd.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/10/AR2009041003269.html

The Wapo article clearly states that they are still reviewing their detainee policy. Did you even bother to read that?

Keep our powder dry?

Because lord knows, shutting the fuck up is the only way to evince change in policy.

Isn't outrage fun?

How embarrassing for you.

:thumbsup:

It appears the talking points have been issued and certain people are attempting to whip the rest into line.

I hate it when that shit happens because it's so freaking transparent.

:rofl:

is thinking you have any right to do anything other than immediately repatriate all those KIDNAPPED and IMPRISONED WITHOUT CHARGE by America and pay them compensation.

Whatever they did or didn't do, they did not commit crimes on US soil and American jurisdiction is not, no matter how you might want it to be, worldwide.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Habeas or trusting the heart of a corrupt bureaucracy?

Such a difficult choice.

and the day the Obama administration decided to continue any of this shit was they day they owned it. It is not defensible, as clearly demonstrated by your post.

You're calling it "poutrage" to object to imperialist wars and the utter lawlessness that attends them?

You're saying it's okay that the rights of people "incarcerated by U.S. troops in foreign prisons" depend upon the "heart" of the U.S. president?

This sounds like a Rush Limbaugh word to me--"poutrage." The Constitution, the rule of law, the Geneva Conventions, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the UN Charter, numerous other treaties, our democratic traditions, and human decency out the door, in order to worship our "dear leader," whose "heart" may or may not have "mercy" on the "foreigners" in our farflung prisons, depending on what he had for breakfast in the morning. "Poutrage" means that we are to worship Obama the way Limbaugh and nutballs worshiped Bush. Anyone who doesn't bow down and salaam to "our dear leader" is pouting!

That is wrong, SpartanDem. You are telling people to STFU because our "dear leader" knows best.

To understand the tightrope that Obama may be walking, the compromises he has had to make with the "military-industrial complex" that kills disobedient presidents, the severe limits on his power to enact real reform, enforced by the corpo/fascist 'news' monopolies and the Puke owned and controlled 'TRADE SECRET' code in all the voting machines, and the items he had to agree to, to be permitted into the White House (for instance, immunity from prosecution for the Bushwhack principles, and protecting the oil contracts in Iraq)--that is, to be a realist about Obama and about our benighted "democracy"--and thus to explain--or try to explain--our true situation, is quite different from being an apologist for lawless actions. We can wish Obama well in his constricted circumstances, and acknowledge that he is "better than Bush"--even far better than Bush--without worshiping him, and without silencing our objections to unjust war and lawlessness.

Since when does dissent from unjust war and lawlessness = pouting? It is such a stupid thing to say.

I understand, also, how fragile any kind of political consensus is, in this country, after the Bush Junta and its dreadful shredding of the law and looting of the economy. I am fully aware of the dangers of a fractured center-left, and the dire precedent of Germany 1930. Yet democracy and the rule of law will never be restored here if we forget what they mean in our efforts to hold this ruined country together. Democracy means not being silent. The rule of law means the rule of law--not the whim of the executive. If you ridicule people for avowing those principles, then how can you claim to believe in democracy and the rule of law?

Avowing the fundamental principles of national and international law is not pouting. To object to violations of those principles is not pouting, and should be encouraged rather than ridiculed.

I fear the nuanced reasoning in your awesome post is lost on many here. As a foreigner, the whole black site interrogation program was and is immensely damning to me. The military commissions act...really the moment I thought you had all gone off the deep end. The restoration of habeas corpus was to me a no-brainer for a constitutional scholar - I still don't see how it can be anything else. Higher in the thread, the statement "the policy is being reviewed" gives some hope...

Hasn't the past taught that if you let one generation of crooks get away they will come and haunt you again in the future?

Your post is OP-worthy, just as the current Nance rant is, AT THE SAME TIME ;-)

:hi:

...whatever

anyone who uses made up bully slogans is unworhty of attention.

seems fair.

Why can't you just let the grownups take care of business? Habeas Corpus is a quaint notion, but it's really just for dreamers, academics, and terrorists.

Now throw another middle-classer on the barbie - the bankers are getting hungry.

is directly related to Obama's support for the Constitution.

It was unconstituional, and wrong, when Bush put himself above the law, and it is just as unconstitutional, and wrong, for Obama to keep himself there.

What's next, signing statements?

after all, We the People handed Mr. President a mandate with the faith, conscience and good will of the people.

:grr:

:kick:

they can't prevent detainee's from suing the government forever. Eventually the damn will break.

I contribute to the ACLU as well, in short I do what I can but I should do more, this is that important to me. I am deeply saddened by this report of their decision to appeal the ruling, and I hope they lose big time.

but I still think overall he's doing a WONDERFUL job and I support him and trust his judgement.

but that also doesn't mean we can't push him to do the right thing on many topics...

There are a few things politicians aren't allowed to get wrong, and if they get even ONE of them wrong they aren't doing a "WONDERFUL job".

--Habeas Corpus is one of those things.
--Exploding the national debt by shoveling boatloads of money to bankers is another (at some point in the future, the debt WILL be used as an excuse to renege on the bonds in the Social Security trust fund).
--Retroactive immunity for law-breaking fat-cats is another.
--Resisting a public option in health-care reform is another.
--Terrible appointments to positions of power is another (a DLC Monsanto shill as Sec of Ag, an Insurance Corp lobbyist (Daschle) as first choice for HHS, a banker who helped create the economic crisis as Sec of Treasury...).
--Demanding that automotive line-workers give up negotiated benefits as a condition of government $, while bankers take billions in bonuses, is another.
--Allowing torturers who abused the power of the presidency to get off scot-free under the guise of "looking forward, not backward" is another.

Any one of these things poses a direct threat to either our liberty, our physical health, or our middle-class way of life.

But hey, he's planting a garden on the WH lawn, and he has such a pretty wife, and he just exudes competence and confidence, and he sounds oh so sincere... so we can forgive him for these things... in fact, he's doing a "WONDERFUL" job!

I think I'm gonna puke.

or defending the government from such lawsuits is a terrible thing. There are a lot more of these cases to come. That can be something you or anyone else who believes strongly that these people deserve their right to justice in a United States court, can pressure your representatives to do. Health Care reform, will be taken up by the U.S. Congress. There are currently (3) bills in Congress that deal with Single Payer Health Care. That too is something you, your friends, and family can request your representatives to sign on to. If the National Debt is a problem for you..well what did you do about it for the last 8 years? Retro-active immunity for telecom corporations is not something Obama did. He may have voted for it as a Senator, when the FISA law was expiring, and I suppose you could judge him responsible rather than the United States Congress...seems like it's what you're going to do anyway. He did not demand auto-workers giver up anything. And the Bush Administration can be investigated by Congress, or a special prosecutor appointed at a future date. Quit blaming others and start blaming yourself.

That goes too far, IMO. How do you know what the poster has done? Remember we are also fighting American apathy. And Obama sometimes still seems to listen most to those who scream the closest to him. I voted for Obama and intend to again, but there are legit gripes about these Justice Dept. motions, the economic team, health care policy, Afghanistan policy, etc.

about damn near everything in life. But at this point, I don't see how blaming the President for what has not yet happened, is very conducive for getting anything done. Not when there are 3 single-payer bills in Congress. Not when the economic situation is an unknown. Not when the solutions to our global aspirations have not yet been formulated. Scream all you want, but it might work a little better if you picked up the phone and called someone who has the power to do something. I had no idea that all that was required of the whole 'bottom up', 'we the people', 'yes "we" can', thing was to post gripes about Obama on the internet. I can't wait for the 'next' election so we can do it all over again!

But we can evaluate the direction he has taken. He has to show some leadership and stand up to the insurance companies, for example. The President is the chief executive of the land, and we aren't as individuals. Many did their part already by putting him in office to stand for change.

why can't those be passed? Is there some reason why the American people can not get their representatives to vote for the things they elected them to do? Or is it all Obama's doing?

Unfortunately.

to nix every bill, and people have no power to influence their own representatives..why bother? And why blame Obama because your representative votes against your interests?

Just that we have obstacles. And Obama ran against single payer, much to my chagrin. Again, the President should be at least listening more (unions say they were ignored at his summits,) and looking into Dean's plan as a start. It certainly helps to have Obama as an ally.

Rep. John Conyers’ H.R.676
http://www.johnconyers.com/healthcare
Rep. Jim McDermott’s H.R.1200
http://www.house.gov/mcdermott/issues_healthcare.shtml
Bernie Sanders’ S.703
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/march/sen_bernie_sanders_.php

I will do my part and contact Gerlach, even though he's a Repuke.

BUSH-LIKE.

We can build an America that is a shining example of human rights, where there is an end to torture, to homelessness, to poverty, where every citizen has access to higher education through PHD, where everyone has guaranteed health-care.

* Promise Kept 23

* Compromise 7

* Promise Broken 5

* Stalled 3

* In the Works 62

* No Action 414

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

because this isn't about a checklist where everything is weighted equally and a score can be tallied. Some things are non-negotiable - because without them, none of the rest matters. Habeas corpus is one of those things.

23/12 is a bad average when you have such an overwhelming mandate.

I have to say..too damned bad Dennis Kucinich wasn't voted our president. We would be out of iraq, Bush and thugs would be in jail, Wall street would be in court and crooked bankers would be prosecuted... and we wouldn't be continuing Bush's criminal policies and illegal imprisonments.
I thought Obama had some morals.
Imprisoning people for years with no charges, no lawyers and no hope of ever getting out is shameful, evil and just plain wrong.
Don't try to spin this as some kind of Obama secret plan to restore honor etc cause it wont work anymore.
I think we have all been had. So far it seems to be more of the same ol crap we went through the last eight years or so.
If I am wrong, please show me where there has been improvement because I don't see it and it breaks my heart.

and what government do you think we have? Attempting to block prisoners in Afghanistan, or detainee who have been tortured, from suing the government is eventually going to fail. These are the first of many cases coming down the pike. We will pay for what we've done to these people. If you think Dennis Kucinich or any other person could possibly do what you suggest you don't know much about how our government works. Perhaps you should run for office?

Just go back to believing the USA is a mere country and respectful of its boundaries and not violating the rights of any who disturb the natural flow of money for the empire's robber barons.

Bush must have been right is all you can conclude from this.

eom

If it takes awhile, then starting now rather than later is the only course of action.
Read the Red Cross report of torture at the NY review of books.
http://www.nybooks.com/icrc-report.pdf
Email your Senator.

what about they're still reviewing the policy don't you idiots get? Come July and they don't change it and you want to picket the WH fine .But until then how you people chill the fuck out.

I do and surprisingly he's not overly keen on chilling the fuck out. Neither are 2 other Australians held in Gitmo nor their supporters or families. I doubt the families in Afghanistan et all feel much different.

What can you possibly "review" about an action you had NO RIGHT TO TAKE, no right AT ALL.

and the case files. Eventually prisoners/detainee's, past and present, around the globe will be able to sue the U.S. Government, in a U.S. Court, or they will find another way to get justice. Each case is of course, different. And each lawsuit I expect would be. I don't know how the government defends itself against the indefensible, but I guess I understand why they might wish to do so in a court of law. I think we should set up a fund to pay reparations to the thousands of victims out there. But then, that probably would not be enough. What do you think we should do for all the victims?

I have no idea how to do the sarcasm thingy

If any are up for re-election, it's time to recruit a primary challenger. Stop tolerating the intolerable.