United to charge heavier passengers twice to fly

Source: WBBM Radio.780, newsradio..

http://www.wbbm780.com/pages/4206947.php?contentType=4&contentId=3833137


Bob Roberts reporting.

United spokesperson Robin Urbanski said the airline adopted the policy quietly earlier this year, because until then, its flight attendants and customer service representatives had no guidelines.

Urbanski said those passengers who are unable to comfortably fasten a safety belt with one extension, or sit comfortably with armrests down, will be moved next to an empty seat on board the same flight at no charge if possible. If no empty seats exist, the passenger can be denied boarding, or taken off the flight – and put on the next flight on which space is available – at double the charge.

She was uncertain if the airline would impose the double charge if the next flight were half empty.

Urbanski indicated that the lack of a policy until now left United employees unsure about what they should do.
“Now we have a policy,” she said.


Read more: http://www.wbbm780.com/pages/4206947.php?contentType=4&contentId=3833137

I still feel sorry for the people who have to sit next to a supersized person in flight as their parts overflow into the personal space.

I can see the expression on the faces of people when a grotesquely fat person enters the plane, silently pleading, "dear god, I hope that person isn't sitting next to me!"

It's fucked up. When you fly in a cattle car, you don't get to have maximum comfort. You can't specify that you won't sit next to someone unless he is perfectly healthy. I despise having someone else put my health at risk with his contagious disease, but I do come into contact with many such people. You have to listen to kids. You have to listen to the whiners. You have to listen to the people who have to be entertained at every moment, and you have to listen to the people who seem to be incapable of being quiet for a couple of hours.

Don't forget the people who bathe in cologne, those who ought to bathe in something, those who have to eat and chomp ever 15 minutes because of some imaginary health condition, and of course those whose can't seem to go more than an hour without going to the bathroom.

Then there are the people who want you to think they are working on the plane, the people who think you can actually sleep on a plane, the people who need to chatter on about every plane they have been on and every airport they have been to not to mention their appreciation for the meal. Who's next? Those people who insist on blocking the aisles while they walk back and forth asking people if they need a drink, let's talk about people who need a drink. What moron thought it was a good idea to serve alcohol on planes? If I wanted to be confined to a small space with a bunch of drunks, I would sit in on Congress.

too bad for the rest of you LOSERS!!!

built for children, not adults so the airlines can cram more people in.

I was uncomfortably sandwiched between two larger people on a Southwest Flight once.

No need to feel sorry for those who are forced into that arrangement-- things happen and in the grand scheme of life, it would have been petulant and petty for me to have complained about it. And it wasn't that bad-- I can drown out loud noises, bad movies, and uncomfortable seating arrangements with little problem.

I mean, really-- it's simply no big deal at all. Life goes on, no one is hurt, and I imagine that the two larger people I sat between felt worse about it than I did.



No-- the one's I hate to sit next to are the selfish, sanctimonious, ineffectual whiners who feel compelled to judge everyone around them out of some bizarre sense of self-validation. I hope you never have to sit next to one of those...

.... try sitting between two "large" people on a 14 hour long flight

Six hours. As I said, no big deal.

Anyways, it's usually a person's personality that annoys me more than anything. Physical attributes I deal with, but then again, I realize many people simply can't do that...

all the way from Seattle to New York. And I mean HARD and constantly for the entire five hours. I asked his parents TWICE for him to stop and heard the mother whine "now honey stop that" about three times.......................

If that had been my kid we'd taken a trip to the little boys room, but sigh.....................

It happens. My back was killing me and twice he kicked my drink into my lap.

But I am still against this!

smelly feet for four hours straight while you try to endure a smoky, stinky bus filled with twice the permissible limit of people and chickens on the most rutted, god forsaken dirt road on the face of this planet. Then you will know what true pain is. And I still support this policy!

:spray:

If an obese person can't fit in the seat, why is it the problem of the thinner person who's space is being invaded. Why should I have to be uncomfortable because someone else is taking up more space than is allotted for passengers.
I have nothing against fat people and I recognize that some people aren't responsible for their size and I don't think this charge is a punishment for obesity. If we're looking at this fromn a bottom line, the heavier the plane, the more fuel it uses, the more money it costs to fly the plane. No person or industry can afford to throw away money. There are obese people who weigh more than twice what I do so I see charging for 2 seats as logical.
I don't see why you consider a thin person crowded by a heavy one as whining or being selfish, unless this hit close to home for you or something. You're being more judgmental than you're accusing those who disagree with you.

"There are obese people who weigh more than twice what I do so I see charging for 2 seats as logical..."
No more nor no less logical than charging someone half price if they weigh less than one hundred pounds, or if two wish to sit in one seat.

"unless this hit close to home for you or something"
Not really. It's simply the subject of the thread. :shrug: I simply think we could all do with a bit less whining about inconsequential creature comforts.

"You're being more judgmental than you're accusing those who disagree with you."
Simply relating my own anecdotal experience, and how I myself felt about it. But yes-- I do judge, and in a most visceral and extemporaneous way about those who complain about the inconsequential and trivial things in life. And to me, an airplane seating arrangement is rather inconsequential and trivial, regardless of the temporary discomfort it may have on my person.



To me, being crowded in a seat isn't one of the big deals in my life-- but I fully realize that it is to many, many people...

like they do with luggage. Let's get real about this, if you are so large that you expand into more than 1 seat then you are pushing the 300lb barrier. I am 235lbs and fit comfortably into my own seat. I realize there are exceptions.

I imagine many people feel the same way. However your absolutism seems a bit financially predatory to me if we were to charge an overweight person for two seats if the plane is at 30% capacity. Quite possibly legal. Quite possibly moral, but still predatory and a bit selfish from where I sit.


I've found that for the most part, if we all do our best to accommodate other people in a civil and dignified manner-- treating others as we would have ourselves treated (and done so for its own sake rather than a social or karmic quid-pro-quo), the world becomes a much easier place to live and operate in.

But again, I understand that when many people pay for comfort, it's a priority that they receive that comfort immediately and without qualification, and if that comfort or convenience is not there for one reason or another, righteous indignation at those who have 'stolen' their comfort is fully justified.

how about the small people or short, petit folks? Will they get half off?

Why not just charge per pound, like for our luggage.

The muscle bound clods weigh as much as some "fat" folks, they just don't look it and for many of them, the seats are just as small and the folks next to them feel they are too large.

Gawd our society sucks.

Let them be the arbiters of correctness. My significant other and I flew back and forth from California to Vermont and she had to use an extension (okay they the article said two but the idea is the same). Two things, one she sat in the window seat and I sat next to her so nobody was being 'bothered'. Two, it turned out she was in the early stages of kidney failure and was caring at least 100 extra pounds in fluids. Are you really sure you want to use the 'its business' argument. Nobody should be pointing fingers or discriminating against people when you don't know their situation. I can see it now when you order your tickets on line you will be required to enter your weight what a joke.

We've flown together?

If so, I was the one engrossed in a book, lost in my own little world, not really paying attention to anything or anyone around me-- with just a hint of a secret smile on face.

Obese guy next to me. The belly fat was oozing over the armrest, the thigh blubber oozing *under* the armrest, both into my personal space. He was so fat that when he lowered the tray table it would not go horizontal- it wedged into his belly at about a 45 degree angle. I have nothing against fat people but they need to pay for their own space on planes instead of stealing it from their neighbors.

an economy class seat

Next we can get the criers and the perfume wearers and the smokers that reek of smoke residue off of the flights as well! That way no one can be bothered.

And, considering most perfumes have literal toxins in them, I think that's a damn good idea.

and they take up space and scream and smell like shit.

Kids fly half-priced but they take up a whole seat and frequently bother other passengers.

Will this new rule be enforced on pregnant women and body-builders? No, it will be enforced on people who are ugly by superficial standards and frequently have low self-esteem and won't stand up for themselves.

The only good that will come out of this situation is the dent in United's bottom line. 30% of America is obese; 60% are overweight. I don't need a seat extension but I'm never flying United again if I can help it and I strongly suspect I'm not the only one.

Nobody fits comfortably into a 17 inch seat. Be irritated with the cheap ass airline, not the person sitting next to you. And for some reason it's always the skinny bitches who have to dig their elbows into your sides. Most fat people I've sat next to are a lot more considerate and try to hold it in.

Keep rationalizing. And, sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm not a "skinny bitch." :eyes:

I said you don't have to be obese to take up more than your fair share of a seat. As has been pointed out repeatedly throughout this thread, there are many men who spread their legs wide and into other people's areas and there are many skinny bitches who take both armrests and dig their elbows into their neighbors sides. Rude is rude, it has nothing to do with weight. And in my experience, most overweight people are at least conscious about it and try to give their neighbors more space while many skinny people are self-absorbed and take up as much room as possible. The worst flight I ever had was sitting for eighteen hours next to a mother and her ten year old son. The son didn't take up much space but he whined, took off his shoes and had *the worst foot fungus infection in the world* which I had to sniff for ten hours because he lay across the seats and put his filthy infected reeking feet in my lap while kicking me in his sleep. Meanwhile mom is just smiling like life is grand and shooting back vodka.

The simple fact is that several groups are allowed to take up more than one seat space and will not be included in the seat belt extension rule. One is babies which are far more prevalent and generally annoying than severely obese people on flights. But having a baby isn't someone's "fault" right? So they shouldn't be punished even when their screaming, puking, crap producing infant makes the flight a living nightmare for half the cabin instead of just their two neighbors?

Pregnant women and men with beer bellies will be caught out by the seatbelt rule even though their weight is forward and doesn't bother their neighbors. And the first airline that tries to charge a pregnant woman will have it's ass chewed for them so obviously the seatbelt rule won't be applied universally. Are women going to have to show proof of pregnancy to get on a flight now?

I inherited linebacker shoulders from my dad. I don't need a seat extension but if I'm in the middle seat I have to fly with my arms crossed over my chest for eight or nine hours, often until my arms are cramping. Excuse the shit out of me for not being built like Calista Flockhart. Clearly diet and exercise are the solution. :eyes:

Many people who are not obese do not fit into 17 inch seats in anyway that doesn't spill into their neighbors territory. We can respond to that by ganging up on the most obvious and vulnerable victims of that policy (it's not that comfortable for the fat person sitting next to you either) while ignoring many other groups that contribute to the misery of other passengers or we can put pressure on the airlines to finally start putting passenger comfort ahead of their bottom line.

They don't want you on a plane if you've already had a premmie birth or have suffered from any number of complications throughout the present one. Most airlines won't allow you to fly after the 36th week. They aren't allowed to sit next to the emerg doors even though those seats are generally more spacious. Pregnant women won't be useful in case of an evacuation. Those who are able to fly are warned to wear the seat belt as low as possible over the abdomen which often works out to positioning the band under the protruding belly. So, yes, you have to inform the airline if you are preggers and you can't just come and go as you please.

Not sure why you didn't complain about the reeking child. Someone would have been required to see to your comfort. "Skinny bitches" with bony elbows can also be admonished to behave. Nothing you can do about an extremely large person who is pressing his body weight into your intimate parts. I wouldn't tolerate a thin man reaching over to rub his body against my breast, but somehow, I'm supposed to give up any semblance of decency or decorum if my neighbor is obese. Oddly enough, for all the rudeness you talk about, after many, many flights, I can think of lots of people who got up from their seats because being hemmed in and squashed by another for hours was at the very least uncomfortable... but have never seen an extremely large person get up and stand for awhile to give his/her skinny bitch seatmates a break.

I can't think of any.

Any child over 2 MUST have a full fare ticket. A child under 2 can either fly on a full fare ticket or sit in an adult's lap. On overseas flights lap infants pay ten percent of the fare.

Probably if an obese person were to try and carry a lap child on board a plane they would encounter the same stipulation for buying an extra seat.

You nailed it! Out of the park I tell ya.

I'm overweight, but not sloppily so. (6'2, 250 lbs) However, I'm aware of how easy it would have been for me to become sloppily fat. So I'm sympathetic to folks in that situation.

You, however, would be unpleasant to sit next to whether you were 50 lbs or 500.

telling me their life's stories ....

..... except for the ones who would rather spend the time eating twinkies and hohos :rofl:

Some people are fat not because they stuff their face all the time....bad karma my friend, you may end up fat too.

I fit in the seats o.k., but I always end up next to a talker...I get airsick, I want to sleep, I don't want to talk to anyone other than the stewardess when I want a 7up.

If someone can't fit into one seat, I have no problem with them being forced to pay for two. The minimal amount of space I get on a flight shouldn't be taken by someone overflowing into it.

At the very least, if I have to tolerate that, I should not have to pay full price for my seat - I should get a voucher good for a partial refund.

Yes, some people are overweight and can't help it, but that doesn't mean that others should be required to suffer because of it or be called assholes for not liking it.

hygiene or poor taste in cologne or perfume - how about the folks that snore or eat with their mouths open - or the ones that will not STFU?

I'm short, can I get 1/2 price flights?

Let the flame wars begin!

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I think that's the term. Women, blacks, Hawaiians, Eskimos, and probably a dozen other identifiable groups have more obesity than some others. This kind of policy is sure to affect them disproportionately to their representation in the population.

And on top of that it stinks. The airlines have a history of making life difficult on people for whom life is already difficult. Try to fly with someone who needs oxygen sometimes. They are only now making a minor effort to make that work in a way that isn't completely disagreeable and extremely expensive to those who need it. Five years ago I tried to figure out how to get my mom on a plane to Washington, and she ended up driving.

You'd have to weigh about 300 pounds.

I don't care what race or background you are or how "big boned" you are. That's not a normal or natural
weight for anyone.

If a person takes up two seats, they take up two seats and they should pay for them.

i have NEVER weighed anywhere close to 300 pounds, and i have had to squeeze into coach seats.

i feel so sorry for the skinny--poor poor babies, the sides of their legs had to touch the sides of a FAT PERSON'S LEGS! ohmigod, the horror! how did you live through the experience! why, i'm surprised you didn't go into shock, pass out and die!

fucking asshole whiners

i've sat next to plenty of MEN who weren't obese, but still found it necessary to sprawl their legs out into my space, and they had the nerve to use BOTH the armrests, instead of leaving at least one of them for me! and then those drunk assholes had to keep getting up and down to go pee because they were drinking. and they take up ALL the space in the overhead bin and none of the space under the seat in front of them. selfish pricks.

get over yourself.

Why you're just a pleasant little sparkle, shining brightly through life!

:rofl:

:rofl:

maybe - just MAYBE - the solution is to NOT TRY TO CRAM EVERYONE INTO BABY SEATS?!!!

HMMMM?!!!

...just a thought...

seats. Good for you, you're right!!

I fit fine.

a narrow butt or are six foot five.

someone who is thin.

Local joke: "What do you call a 300-pound Samoan?"
.
.
.
.
.
"Anorexic!"

But I couldn't remember if the people I was think of were Samoans or Tongans. There were these women who were always in the laundromat who were six feet or more in height, chunky but well proportioned, and at least 200 pounds. Overall, the largest people I have ever seen.

large people as well.

Samoans and those from Tonga are very large people, most of them. It is in their genetics.

at least KamaAina will get it...

by the way dear, I'm FROM Hawai'i - so I'm quite familiar with Samoans, Fillipinos, Chinese, Japanese, Hawaiians and every other group that calls Hawai'i HOME...

I suggest the one that needs to do some reasearch is YOU...

:D

:popcorn:
pass the butter, thanks.

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1907543 had to post it,, but we didnt start it :)

wait till they release their policy on gay marriage for pit bulls. with assault rifles.

:popcorn:

What's the goal here...are they getting tired of overweight passengers sprawling out across two seats when they're paying
for one seat?

Being stuck next to a person who is so overweight that the armrest cannot swing down is not a pleasant experience. If they need the space, then they should pay for the space.

No "kids fly free", no Sliver Pass, no family or group discounts, no advance discount, none of that. It's a fixed price per pound, or better yet, make it a fixed price per inch of girth at the widest point. Why should a person with a 46 waist pay more than a man or woman with a sixty inch bust or should measurement?

I'd pay extra for that seat

you know how you can tell your lover is getting fat?

when they sit on your face and you can't hear the stereo...!!!

know what skinny people use venetian blinds for? - BUNKBEDS!!!

thenkew, thenkew - I'll be here all week - try the buffet!!!

Let's add a little hatred and scorn to the misery of overweight people, shall we?

NIIIIICCCEEE compassion, 'liberals'.

I take no sides on this one. Very rough call in my opinion.

I see some rational thinking about a policy that will help all of their customers. If the overweight customers themselves can't figure out they need two seats then I am fine with the airline telling them the facts of life. And I say that as a fatty, though admittedly not one that requires seat belt extensions.

it's better than a "bush/cheney" bumpersticker!

I'm not obese and I'm considerate when I fly, but now I know how many miserable fucks there are on that plane with me. Doesn't make for a pleasant flight at all.

It's not OK with me.

because a fat person took two seats. They check-in person doesn't assign two seats to each person, it's sorted out on the flight. And most respectful airlines just seat the larger person next to a kid.

It says in the article that it's the airline's informal policy to bump the large person, not another passenger in cases where it can't be worked out any other way.

It SUCKS to sit next to someone who is extremely overweight and bulging over the arm rest into your personal space. You need two seats? You pay for two seats. Makes perfect sense to me.

the airlines to provide larger seats. What about people that are excessively tall and their knees are in your back, charge them more next I suppose. But yea right its a good idea. Reminds me of the offer of unlimited local calling that was up-charged after 6 mos because excessive usage. If you are charging by passenger either accommodate the person or find a new schedule of fares, by the cubic foot or pound, that should go over well.

Do you understand how large one has to be to require two seats in an aircraft? Wanna charge by the pound? Fine by me.

large to not fit comfortably into one airline seat.

not fitting comfortably into ONE seat does not mean that one is so large as to require two full seats.

i can't wait for world famine--all the fucking skinny bitches (not all those who are skinny are bitches) will die off, and the (formerly) fat will rule the world. and it will be a much nicer place.

A famine disproportionately affects fat people who need far more food to survive than skinny people.

On the other hand, fat people die sooner because of hypertension, diabetes and arteriosclerosis caused by the adiposity.

A famine disproportionately affects fat people who need far more food to survive than skinny people.

I've been on diets that would have put a thin person in the hospital in a matter of days. I did a modified fast for 16 weeks once, lost 168 lbs in that time and you're telling me that a 150 pound man would have survived? Don't think so. What I think you meant to say is that fat people need more food to maintain their weight, but that wouldn't support the idea that they would be worse off in a famine.

Not only that, but my fat person metabolism is designed for famine. I require 3000 calories to maintain 300 pounds whereas a 150LB man consumes 3000 calories and maintains 150 pounds. That means that he's using the same amount of energy for half the work.

Ironically, the ability to efficiently store fat actually WAS a genetically desirable trait that helped humans survive in harsh environments. Hence, you see populations like the Inuit disproportionately affected by obesity rates.

The fact that obesity is associated with health risks isn't really relevant since there are plenty of fat people without those problems and plenty of thin people who DO have them; factoring in both populations would pretty much even out the impact of disorders like hypertension and heart disease. Lifestyle and genetics have a lot more to do with them and obesity is but one risk factor among many.

just had my physical ... blood pressure is perfect, blood sugar, cholesterols and triglycerides are all great. i have to make the appointment for my first bone density scan.

i lift weights 3 times a week, do 30-60 minutes of cardio and/or swim 3 times a week ... i walk, hike, ride horses, do yoga.

i'm a non smoker, and drink some alcohol but not a lot.

according to my BMI though, i am morbidly obese at 5'4" and 225 pounds! we all know that BMI is a bullshit measurement.

btw, nice post, thanks!

weighs 283 and is in perfect health. His cholesterol was 160! No diabetes, no nothing. I hate to see when it is time for his physical because I know it will make the doc really upset..............

He did lose about 30 lbs these past months and is now down to 250 because he has a bad knee.

but a divorce is never pleasant...

Just some random thoughts.

Most people who expire during a famine do so from disease, not starvation.

The 150 lb man probably doesn't need 3000 cals to maintain weight. It's probably more like 2000 or even less. If however, he is extremely active he would require more to maintain. During a time of famine, his basal metabolism would become lower, same as everyone else. His activity level would likely be reduced, hence he would automatically require less nourishment.

A chronically obese person might have extra adipose tissue to sustain him/her, but a disproportionately large number of the very obese today suffer from medical problems such as diabetes, and require frequent regulated meals to avoid complications. That would be non-existent during famine time, and wouldn't bode well.

The "thrifty" gene was meant to help sustain people who ate well during summer months, but then much less during the lean winter months. These people were not chronically obese however. The inuit of the days of yore, who depended on hunting (great physical expenditure) were not obese. This is a new development, a consequence of modern day living and eating crap.

The thin person would likely be more mobile during times of famine and could thusly move around better to forage for existing food. A thin person might be better equipped to protect him/herself and family against marauding groups. Weapons only go so far, and those less able to move around would be quickly overcome.

it spoils all the fun...

at least you could(and i did) the last time i flew with them.

i applaud this new policy.

Welcome to DU, zogofzorkon! :hi:

I'd much prefer to sit next to a fat person than a crying baby!..

Maybe we should make parents of crying babies pay an "annoyance fee".

plus a fee for those people who just spread out all over when they aren't fat.

globs of flesh out of the space I paid to sit in. Sorry it is just fair. If you overhang you pay for the extra seat.

...Please tell me if you do, 'cause I could have used those things on a couple of flights.

Seriously though...They COULD widen the seats..Even if you "hang over" it's unlikely you fill up anything CLOSE to the width of two seats..and it's NOT fair to have to pay double.

And Medicare as well. On the other hand, the fat person sitting next to you, encroaching on your space with doughy rolls of cellulite that smell as if the folds between them haven't seen a bar of soap in weeks, will not be around to partially fund your retirement.

The answer to the age-old question of "Why are we here?" is simple: to promote the continuation of our species...the same as every other species in existence.

are the soul of altruism:eyes:

do you think all heterosexuals are breeders?

a common slang term for heterosexuals from homosexuals.

Frankly, I think it's a silly, demeaning term for people who have children.

In any case, let's not fight, o.k.?..Hell, I am on your side on this issue!

some people who have children are actually parents...

but people who advise others to have children because we need someone to take care of us, pay our social security, etc. fall into the category of breeders.

ok, no fight here! :hi:

back at ya!:hi:

>the fat person sitting next to you, encroaching on your space with doughy rolls of cellulite that smell as if the folds between them haven't seen a bar of soap in weeks,<

So, all fat people smell bad, too?
Congratulations. You win!

is just a nasty myth.

As for the kid -- Who knows?...He or she may grow up to be a fat person!

:sarcasm:

people with screaming babies
people whose kids keep kicking the seat
bad breath people
BO people
incessant talkers
low talkers (it's a plane, I can't hear you, you gonna have to talk louder!)
people who try and stuff a weeks' worth of clothing in a carryon, then try and stuff the carryon in the overhead

people with too many bags and they don't stuff them under the seat
bony elbowed people
arm rest hogs
gum poppers
people who chew like cows or slurp their drinks
people who turn on the air and end up blasting with it
nosy people who are trying to see what I am typing on my laptop
bathroom hogs
people who can't hold themselves up when they are walking the aisle who end up falling on me
stewardesses who run into my elbows with their carts
people who rush the line before the captain says we can get up to leave (it's a plane, you are an adult, not a child on a schoolbus)
snorers

but other than that, I love to fly :)

I can't do anything when a fourth of my already too small seat is being taken by my neighbor.

I paid for the damn seat. I should have access to the whole thing.

So that only junk toting stick figures can fit in the f--king seats!

Seriously.

All in their quest to spend as little money as possible to stuff the pockets of the airline executives, along with charging people to take care of their basic human needs...i.e. using the restroom.

It's been a long time since I have flown. Honestly, I consider driving anywhere between Miami and New York to be easier than dealign with airline travel and the surrender of dignity, liberty, and personal freedom. It takes all day to visit by plane, only slightly longer by car and you get to have fun along the way.

A good example would be from Dallas to New Orleans. Approximately 6-7 hours of driving which is not exactly safe OR fun. The other option is to hop on Southwest via Love Airport. I can be in New Orleans in 1.5 hours. I can read a magazine or watch a DVD on the flight. I can also have a few cocktails if I'm planning on heading straight to Bourbon Street.

it was on DU not that long ago. :rofl:

It wouldnt surprise me at all. But for now at least, I think theyre too broke to overhaul all those planes.

Shit... the seats are barely comfortable for anyone as it is. Even for me - and Im small. Greedy bastards.

just SIT on them...

problem solved...

A 5'9" heavy person is the same height as a 5' 9" inch slender person - at least when it comes to leg room. Not enuf space for either. (And pity the guy who is 6' 3").

For the life of me I don't know how full grown men and women are expected to fit in the seats they have now - especially when the person in front lowers their seat back.

But if someone uses two seats, then they should pay for two.

Either that or let the skinny people fly for half-price. Or take out a couple of the seats so that very tall people can sit and stretch out their legs - at the cost of two seats, of course.

i'm trying to figure out what that means. does luggage = junk?

Maybe it means they have a large package? :)

and NOW you're bring "large packages" to the discussion?!!!

Skinny people must be junkies?
:freak: :shrug:

Bring it on.

If you take up two seats, you pay for two seats.

This is not about obesity.

This is about being a courteous person. You can't take up your seat and spill onto someone else's seat. That's
not fair to the person sitting next to you.

that if force = mass x acceleration, and someone has twice as much mass, it should take twice as much force (fuel) to reach and maintain a given acceleration. Any pilots, flight engineers, or physicists out there who can comment on this?

But I don't think this policy is related to the weight factor. Because the first choice is to find two empty seats to accommodate the individual at no extra charge.

f=ma is true (it's Newton's 3rd law) but it doesn't really factor in here unless you want to consider the tiny bit of extra force needed to -accelerate- the mass. What does count is simply raising x pounds y feet...that is increasing the potential energy and must come from burning more fuel. It's even simpler than you proposed. :D

An extra 100 pounds lifted from sea level to 30000 feet requires, obviously, 3,000,000 lb-ft of energy. Which sounds like a lot but it isn't quite as bad as it seems, it takes around a quart of fuel to do it...but if every person contributed the same that would be significant (and of course carrying more fuel -takes- more fuel to lift IT along with the rest of the airplane.) :D

Occupying more than one seat should cost more than occupying one seat.

This policy makes sense.

Atlanta to Rome, overnight, middle seat, next to a huge blob of a man. It was almost impossible to find room for myself to get comfortable, let alone even trying to doze off for a few minutes.

and obesity (not just being 10lbs overweight) may well have genetic/viral roots.

Thus, "disparate impact" analysis does not apply.

"Special attention must be given to obesity as it occurs in and affects ethnic minorities (that is, black Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asian and Pacific Islander Americans, American Indians and Alaska Natives, and Native Hawaiians) in the United States. In most of these groups, the prevalence of obesity is substantially higher than in whites, especially among women. Poverty and lower educational attainment, which are associated with higher than average rates of female obesity (independent of ethnicity), affect proportionately more persons in these minority populations than in white populations. Diabetes mellitus and certain other obesity-related conditions occur to a markedly greater than average extent in many minority populations. A high-risk body fat distribution (upper body or central obesity) occurs to a greater extent in some minority populations than in whites. Because of situational and cultural factors, effective obesity prevention and treatment approaches may need to be defined on an ethnicity-specific basis. Increased attention to obesity as it occurs in and affects diverse ethnic groups can help to address critical minority health issues. Such efforts can also broaden and enrich aspects of obesity research for which models based on white populations are inappropriate or limited. "

http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/119/7_Part_2/650

Try here:

http://www.hr-guide.com/data/G702.htm

You'll see that your analysis simply does not apply in this case (for several reasons.)

because the difference already exists within protected classes.

they are not intending to discriminate (Against protected groups) but their criterion will end up having disparate effect.

It is *disparate impact* on a protected class based on an action by a "state actor", employer, or other entity bound by Federal civil rights law.

Think about this: African Americans are disproportionately poor. Doubling airline prices would therefore have a "disparate impact" on African-American's ability to fly.

And yet having high prices is not a violation of Federal civil rights law, for largely the same reasons I mentioned.

win them. Just a matter of time.

Typically starts showing up when they no longer eat their traditional diet and start eating a "civilized" diet. Dr. Jay Wortman conducted a study in a coastal First Nations group, returning the population to a traditional diet by eliminating sugar and refined carbohydrates with great success in the subjects who adhered to the diet.

I wouldn't put up with having his lard ass next to me in a three-wide section in First Class!

he dosen't want to mingle with the "common people" who would probably tell him what a gasbag he is. He has a corporate jet I'm sure

Perhaps many greatly obese people will stop flying but the move will make flying more attractive to others.

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

Your analogy is absurd.

(airlines making seats smaller and smaller to squeeze more profit out of each flight).

Go ahead and clap and cheer that people who are fat relative to you will have to pay more.

You'll be paying more tomorrow when they change the size again.

Look up the definition of analogy. It holds.

Of course, that's not enough discrimination, is it? :sarcasm:

Double seats... Double baggage, Double frequent flyer miles!

Hell, I'll go ahead and buy the extra seat just so I can fly comfortably without having to chalk up first-class dough.

Some airlines will even refund you the money if the flight doesn't fill up. It's a win-win in my book.

At the very least, you do not get two sets of frequent flyer miles for buying a second seat.

I might also add that the airline reserves the right to reseat another person in the second seat one just paid for. It's in the small print of Southwest's policy, IIRC. In other words, you paid for two seats, they can take one if they want.

- if you can't comfortably sit in one seat and are infringing upon the space, comfort and safety of your flying neighbor, then you need to use two seats and you need to pay for them.

Certainly fair and appropriate.

If you take up two seats, you should pay two fares.

One seat larger, one seat smaller, adjacent. Total space the same.

Then sell the larger seat for a little bit more, and the smaller seat for a little bit less.

Still works out the same. Larger person pays more, but not twice. Smaller person pays less.

but if there were rows where, say, 3 "stick-figure" seats were replaced by 2 "bariatric" seats, that might work.

but those seats would be as wide as first-class seats. they should cost about 1.5x as much since they'd use up a half-seat each.

and they'd need to be set aside for the obese exclusively. or maybe parents with infants.

What "Economy Plus" does is provide more distance between rows (the "seat pitch") but with the same size seats as Economy.
United accomplished this by squeezing the Economy rows more tightly together. IIRC the Economy pitch used to be 33" on average. I remember that before United did that I could cross my legs without hitting the seatback in front of me -- now it's not possible.

Here are side by side specs for United 757s according to flight guru.
service : pitch width
First Class: 38.0" 20.5"
Economy Plus Class: 36.0" 17.0"
Economy Class: 31.0" 17.0"


For comparison the average dining room chair has an 18" wide seat.

Stop making SENSE!

I'm going for more popcorn...

... that some seats on the ride vehicles at any attraction I worked at were a bit wider than the rest. Those were in place to accommodate guests who happened to be too large to fit comfortably in regular seats. We also had spaces where a standard wheelchair could be loaded and strapped in, for those guests who couldn't leave their wheelchairs. Larger guests and guests in wheelchairs did not have to pay extra for these accommodations. They bought one ticket, it was good to admit one person, no matter what their proportions happened to be.

It makes for good customer service, and it also makes good business sense. If a family comes to a park and is constantly frustrated that one of their own can't enjoy themselves, because the park didn't have the foresight to accommodate larger guests, that family will more than likely not return. What's more, they will probably go to a parks competitor if that competitor is more accommodating.

Could you imagine the shit-storm if Disney started charging expectant mothers double?...

The airline industry is also a service industry, and while they have been forced to cut corners in just about every possible way in order stay afloat, United Airlines' decision is beyond ludicrous.

It would not be that big of a concession to take out two seats from every plane, and replace it with one large seat... and yes for the same price as a regular seat... True they would loose one passenger per flight, but the PR alone, or lack of bad PR plus lawsuits, would more than make up for the lost revenue.


Any airline with a shred of business savvy would take advantage of United Airlines massive fuck up... And offer one or two larger seats per flight, at no extra charge...

I can see the add now. Like the ones that make fun or E-Harmony for rejecting people.

A big guy standing in front of a white backdrop says "United Airlines wanted to charge me twice as much to fly with them. Apparently they view me as a person, ... plus extra baggage... Treating me like a normal human being is obviously too much of an inconvenience for them. That's why me and my family now fly (insert carrier here) cause they believe in one flight, one ticket, one person... "

Get that guy Hurley from "Lost" to do it... No body can hate on Hurley.

...I don't think you want anybody from "Lost" doing commercials for an AIRLINE. :rofl:

But then thought the substance of my post would be lost in snark.

.... Rights with some teeth in it. My now-retired travel agent (a tiny woman, by the way) agreed with me that all the pleasure has been taken out of flying. It's not just about the size of the seats, it's everything, including amenities that are health and safety related.

Hekate

They seem to be getting narrower and the leg room seems to shrink a little every time I fly.

I don't know how a tall people don't go crazy on a long flight.

They have added rows to the planes and more seats. This will only hurt the airlines. (more empty seats)

Other means of transportation to cover long distances are so much slower that people are willing to suffer quite a bit on a plane to get the huge savings in time that comes with air travel.

Hopefully if high-speed rail gets off the ground it will pressure the airlines to offer better service. (And when I say better service, I mean bigger seats better amenities, etc. -- I'm not trying to badmouth the flight staff -- they tend to do a great job.)

Thanks for speaking up. I don't know why I even bother getting involved in these threads because it's absolutely infuriating. I used to be very petite myself, and before I started gaining weight (from medication, but that's another thing no one here believes) I noticed the same thing you have: the amount of space allocated per passenger in all directions has gotten exponentially smaller.

Hekate

who tend to climb all over the people who are unfortunate enough to have to sit next to them.

only the moms didn't appreciate me giving their babies one of those small bottles much...

go figure...

Betcha they won't even think of that one.

I've sat next to very large people on long flights and it wasn't comfortable, but charging them for two seats? That's ridiculous. It's not as if they can check half their weight before coming on board.

and it sucks. They selfishly & obliviously take both arm rests with their elbows sticking into my space. And the rows are so narrow they have to sit with their legs spread to fit - also in my space.

Clearly the *REAL* problem is airlines trying to cram more and more seats on each plane.

types who could have shared the space better if they bothered to try.

It's absolutely linked to airlines cramming in more rows and then blaming passengers for not fitting in the new tiny spaces.

BTW, I'm a middle seat Nazi. I've told off adjacent passengers when they try to hog the armrests by explaining they had a dedicated armrest on the other side and I deserved at least dibs on one of mine.

how did YOU get so lucky?!!!

reading too many "2M4M" threads perhaps?!!

HMMMM?!!!

They're usually self-important business types who think they are the most important people on the flight. They have to sit with their legs spread apart as far as possible and immediately open up their laptops with their elbows sticking in your space and taking up all armrests. Very rude. I say we make men like this pay double:)

I'm a 5'4" 135 lb. woman and I've often thought if I'm this uncomfortable in this seat, what are people who are even a little bit taller or heavier feeling. The airlines need to stop trying to cram as many people in as possible. I'm old enough to remember when flying was enjoyable.

try bringing LOGIC to this argument...

Obese people are being singled out. If you're too tall to sit in coach without your legs jamming into the seat back in front of you, airline logic would suggest that YOU're the problem, not their idiotic policy of cramming more and more rows into a finite space. Bear in mind that seat pitch has been declining over the decades while the average size of people (height and girth) has been on the rise.

I've had many colleagues who were too tall for the abysmal pitches in coach. Using the same thinking as the double seat pricing for the obese, tall people should be required to pay a premium to buy either the seat in front of the one where they're sitting or to buy the adjacent seat so that they can sit spread-legged.

I need to sit between two big men who SUCK and keep my legs spread when I'm flying...

got it...

it's HARD to keep all the rules straight!!!

Try to keep up.

I am tired of battling 100-pound carry-ons being slammed into my legs while deboarding.

The entire fare should not be based on weight, but I would have no problem with lighter passengers paying a little less, and heavier passengers a little more. Weight of what you put onboard a plane results in a tangible, measurable cost.

Other than paying them to move your mass plus that of your luggage, the rest of your air fare covers service, which costs the airline pretty much the same for everyone.

me filled 4/5 of my seat as well, I have to say it's a good policy.

wow, that's unusual.

oh, you were exaggerating and using hyperbole to gain sympathy.

poor you, had to sit by a fat person. your life must be so hard.

I had to sit and stand next to my seat. Sorry, but I feel more for a paying passenger that is discomforted than a hefty one that needs two seats but only pays for one.

stand in the aisle for the whole flight except takeoff and landing.

i find that hard to believe. and i'm not sorry.

should pay for 2 seats. And the fact that you're not sorry tells me you're probably a person who takes up 2 seats and doesn't see the need to pay for both.

i bet you're one of those self-important assholes who hogs the legroom and the armrests.

I also never lean back because I know how annoying it is for some stranger to be snoring in your lap.

:) Always try to be sensitive to those sitting behind me.

I've had a few similar situations. On the one flight, the person next to me needed much more space than was provided, and I spent almost the whole flight standing and reading a magazine next to the head. It was most unpleasant. And as someone else said, it was distressing, both mentally and physically to have a strange man with his left tricep pressed hard against my right breast while his legs rubbed up against mine. I felt violated. And of course, because of his size he fidgeted, so the pressure against my breast became quite painful. On another flight, stuck in the middle, next to a thin woman and very large man, the woman was kind enough to lift her armrest and share some of her space with me, so the large man could use at least a third of mine. We, the two women, didn't enjoy our flight at all. I believe the man was quite content.

Not sure what the solution is, although this one is as good as any, but all passengers should be provided with the same level of courtesy and comfort, and those who are forced from their seats are not getting their money's worth.

Or do you have a better candidate?

:)

:argh:

LOL

I imagine to be fair, they will charge those under 100lbs half price-- or if nothing else, allow two to a seat if they so wish and may fit...

Even though they refer to it as purchasing a seat on a plane, you aren't really purchasing a seat. You are purchasing passage. This is clearly demonstrated any time you insist that you paid for Row 10 seat A and the airline has decided otherwise.

According to the charts on seatguru.com, United's Airbus planes as well as their Boeing 767 and 777s have 18 inch seat widths. The rest of their planes have 17 inch seats.

This is the distance between the armrests.

I fly with her a lot. She needs a seatbelt extender and it is sad to see her have to ask for it and then hear the flight attendant yell "HEY THIS LADY IN 23C NEEDS A SEATBELT EXTENDER!" (yes, that really happened)

Next time we fly I am going to ask for the seatbelt extender and since I am not so thin but not really fat either I will be anxious to see how they react.

I have been friends with her for many years and it is sad to see what she has to put up with. And no she is not lazy, she is just big. Always has been but doesn't overeat or fail to exercise. She is just big. So is her brother and a lot of her relatives.

Not all fat people are guilty of bad behavior. And they all don't need to be punished either.

I honestly think the airlines have reduced the size of the seats. They just feel smaller to me. I sometimes fly Midwest and their seats are a thousand times more comfortable than United or American or several other airlines. (Plus they bake you chocolate chip cookies:))

So if it can be proven that the airlines have reduced the seat size then they have no right to increase the price of their tickets.

There is no way a person can be fat without overeating unless they have a pituitary, adrenal or thyroid disorder, all of which are rare.

I have known people to say "I hardly eat anything - just a slice of bread and some lettuce" but then they forget to mention the gallon of ice cream and half a dozen brownies they eat for snacks.

Keep a diary of everything your friend eats in a month, calculate the calories and you'll see why the laws of thermodynamics are so respected.

And she isn't the only person I know who is fat and isn't an overeater. She has also been going to a specialist to try to lose weight for several years now. She did the food diary.

It's not all that unusual. Everyone has a different metabolism.

he's one of those calories in/calories out simpletons.

the human body is not a simple little mathematical problem

my TRAINER told me that i wasn't losing weight yet even though i was working out because i was not eating enough. i asked him "when is my body going to start burning the fat i already have?" and he said never, until you are eating enough. and don't tell me i wasn't losing weight because i was gaining muscle because i've been measuring my body fat percentage not just my weight.

guess what? when i started eating breakfast, and three more small meals throughout the day instead of skipping breakfast and eating just lunch and dinner, i lost weight.

when you cut calories, your body goes into famine protection mode and does everything it can to protect your fat stores. short of actual starvation, which from some of your other posts on this topic i'm pretty sure you think all the lazy fat people should do, you will not lose weight if you are not consuming enough calories.

now go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.

skinny people who never exercise eat like pigs.

it's possible to metabolize large amounts of food and remain thin despite consuming a lot of calories but it isn't possible to
manufacture fat out of nothing.

calories stay heavy - more and more is coming out about the genetics of it.

where the extra mass comes from if it's not from food. Right?

Body metabolism.

by one degree Celsius. Can you explain how that is different for different people?

and the human body is not a simple calculator, human metabolism is more complex than simpletons can seem to understand these days.

no one is claiming that to be true

nice strawman tho'

in spite of burning more calories than are eaten? I REALLY hope you are shitting me.
:eyes:

and if i'm burning more calories than i'm eating by lifting weights, yes i CAN gain weight as muscle weighs more than fat.

:eyes: your own self genius.

There's 13 million currently diagnosed with some form of thyroid disease in the US, and as many as 20 million undiagnosed. I wasn't surprised at all to learn that Oprah Winfrey had thyroid disease.

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism in 1995. I used to think I wouldn't wish thyroid disease on anyone, but I'm starting to think that there are some people who need the wakeup call of gaining 50 or so pounds they're not able to lose...

I've had to fly three times in the past three years because of business. The last time I flew, I was almost back into the regular seatbelt (yaaay!) but I still ask for the extender. Typically, I'm flying on miles, so I'm in first class. It's a wider seat. I'm also flying on Alaska; I don't know if their flight attendants are a little more sensitive because they're dealing with people who may be a little larger and coming out of Alaska or Hawaii, but the people I've had the pleasure of sitting next to have also been delightful.

The fat person ALWAYS feels badly if they are infringing on someone else's space or sits next to someone who goes out of their way to let any of us know that we're just a waste of human skin. I'm not sure if it's because first class is mostly businesspeople or what, but I've never had a bad experience there. I will not fly coach again, even with two seats.