Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

(Federal) Judge to Rule if President Can Illegally Spy on Americans

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 01:51 PM
Original message
(Federal) Judge to Rule if President Can Illegally Spy on Americans
Source: WIRED News

A federal judge will rule on the merits of a legal challenge weighing whether a U.S. president may bypass Congress, as President George W. Bush did, and establish a program of eavesdropping on Americans without warrants.

U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker ruled similarly in January and February, but entertained and rejected (.pdf) a second Obama administration challenge late Friday that the case was barred by the state secrets doctrine. The government said the case threatened to harm national security.

Absent intervention from the U.S. Supreme Court, the case is the only lawsuit likely to litigate the merits of a challenge to Bush's secret eavesdropping program adopted in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 terror attacks. A federal appeals court already rejected the Obama and Bush administration's bid to dismiss the case, despite government assertions the lawsuit might expose government secrets.

The Obama administration had threatened that it might disobey Walker's orders. However, Walker said the case would be litigated, even though the government said Walker had no authority to see the case through. The judge, in announcing he would decide the "merits" of the litigation, ruled the government must share classified data with opposing lawyers, who are gagged from disclosing its contents to the public.

Read more: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2009/04/judge-to-rule-i.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Brits do that shit, more or less. And it's institutionalized. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. I thought the illegal spying started BEFORE 9/11.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. It did. Bush started it just after he was installed.

There are many news articles revealing this fact, which is routinely ignored by the corporate media these days.

Here's one: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/business/14qwest.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jb5150 Donating Member (213 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Didn't Nixon once say:
"If the President does it, it's not illegal"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Somebody Tell Me This Article Is False, Please
Is it actually possible that Obama wants to do warrantless wiretapping?

Dear God, please no.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. One of the strongest levers a rogue administration has...
Is the ability to keep questionable activities from being ruled on by courts. If you review Bush's actions you'll see a pattern of stalling, obfuscating, and last minute sleight of hand designed to undermine the right of the judge to rule. Obama's best strategy in PREVENTING future abuse is to push these cases through the courts for definitive, rulings that will bind future legislative and executive attempts to capitalize on ambiguity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I'm afraid it's more of that "change you can't believe in"
What's a little illegal wiretapping when Obama's also decided to let our war criminals skate and put the ruined economy in the hands of his hand-picked cronies who benefit financially from it being that way?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. How many Obamas does it take to change a lightbulb?
None.

He only promises change.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
24601 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. It's HIS NSA Now. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ORDagnabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. hey isnt Bybee a federal judge?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. The answer should be
NO!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaRa Donating Member (705 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Huh? A judge is going to decide if a President can break the law?
the title blows me away.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Yeah, so much for a government of laws, not of men. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Yeah. It got me too
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ddss75 Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. Funny?
This sounds like Nixon. You can make your list of personal enemies, and use the power of the federal government to destroy them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. I hope they lose big time, and I don't want to hear about any appeals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. "The Obama administration had threatened that it might disobey Walker's orders"
Edited on Mon Apr-20-09 08:55 PM by Zhade
And this is a change from the b*s* administration's disregard for the rule of law HOW, exactly?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
24601 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Well, nothing is settled law until the last appeal is over
Anything done by a District Judge can be undone by the Circuit Court of Appeals, then SCOTUS, with sometimes the whole circuit en banc before the supremes.

Think about it, Congress and a President pass a law but both view it differently. Fortunately, the Constitution gives neither the right to decide a law over the other and it goes to the third branch. And those procedures keep it an open question until SCOTUS decides it or refuses the case.

Bushco lost their nerve rather than fight to a decision. If they had, SCOTUS COULD have decided that Congress can prohibit/regulate only domestic to domestic surveillance but not the intercept of anything crossing the border (like customs can strip search ANYONE without a warrant). Then where would we be? Is that where Pres Obama is headed? I don't really think so, but he's not in the Congress anymore. Where you stand depends on where you sit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 07th 2024, 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC