Breaking: Dissenter on Torture w/in Bush Admin speaks out

Source: Daily Kos

Breaking: Dissenter on Torture w/in Bush Admin speaks out!
by SeaTurtle
Apr 21, 2009 at 06:52:15 PM PDT

In an Exclusive Interview and Breaking Story on Rachel Maddow tonight, she interviewed Philip Zelikow, counselor to Condeleeza Rice, who has now released that he strongly differed within the Bush Administration on the torture memoranda and set his opinions in writing.

The response from the Bush Administration was to try to round up all copies of his memo and destroy it.

Now that the Torture Memoranda have been declassified he is free to speak about his dissent.

Rachel opened her show tonight with a blockbuster exclusive interview, saying:

"The decision to release Office of Legal Counsel Memos re. torture has had one other ramification so far and it is this: Govt. officials who knew about torture but who were sworn to secrecy are now free to talk about it."

She said that new major news to report: Condeleeza Rics's counselor at the State Dept, Philip Zellico, wrote a memo to the Bush Administration arguing that the legal opinions on torture were wrong. He gave competing advice to the Bush Administration, which responded by trying to destroy his memo.







Read more: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/21/722936/-Breaking:-Dissenter-on-Torture-w-in-Bush-Admin-speaks-out

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The Zelikow Memo
http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/category/one_time_tags/the_zelikow_memo
The underlying absurdity of the administration's position can be summarized this way. Once you get to a substantive compliance analysis for "cruel, inhuman, and degrading" you get the position that the substantive standard is the same as it is in analogous U.S. constitutional law. So the OLC must argue, in effect, that the methods and the conditions of confinement in the CIA program could constitutionally be inflicted on American citizens in a county jail.

In other words, Americans in any town of this country could constitutionally be hung from the ceiling naked, sleep deprived, water-boarded, and all the rest -- if the alleged national security justification was compelling. I did not believe our federal courts could reasonably be expected to agree with such a reading of the Constitution.

When MSNBC first gave Rachel her show, she couldn't get a Republicon to appear.

Now this.

His reluctance to go after the criminals becomes a stronger negative when compared to an "insider's" opposition.

Zelikow is no good guy, by any means. But he can take the high road on this one and bring a whole entourage of pukes along with him, unless Obama trumps him and actually goes after the guilty.

If he did/does, I wouldn't be surprised to hear Zelikow singing a different tune.

Remember, it's always politics with them. Always.




Always,


Tansy Gold

For those who disbelieve the official story of the commission he led, the one that investigated the event that shall not be named lest this thread head for the dungeon, isn't it interesting that THIS is the guy who would not capitulate.

Deeply weird.

interesting point. at first i just recalled that zelikow had co authorized a book with rice (who should be among the first wave into prison imo)and forgot about this. weird indeed.

deeply weird indeed.

White collar criminals write self-exculpating memos all the time.

I don't trust Zelikow and this reeks of CYA.

That Zelikow was THAT commission's head.

My friend Comrade J used to do this great presentation for the Truther group (a group that shall not be fully named) on how inter-related all the people on said commsision were, in terms of Big Oil and Big Military.

Anyway, thanks!

>>So has anyone beside me found it troubling that President Obama is making announcements on who should be prosecuted for possible crimes? Whatever one's view of the matter, didn't the administration ardently announce its dedication to depoliticizing the Department of Justice? So why is it proper for the president to tell Attorney General Eric Holder what he should conclude?

There seem to be four possibilities here:

1. No unlawful conduct occurred. That judgment should, at least initially, be made by the Attorney General, free from political influence.

<snip>

Or you have option #5, in which the president does not exercise his pardon power but instead, in effect, tells his attorney general what conclusions he should reach about whether federal officials broke the law.

Can you imagine what folks would say if a Republican president exercised option #5?<<

http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/category/one_time_tags/the_zelikow_memo

(The last entry on the page)

Is that no attorney general is free from political influence. It's a political appointment and no former AG or current AG for that matter was appointed for being the President's political opposition.

or so it says in the opening post..."Now that the torture Memoranda have been declassified, he is free to speak about his dissent."
I really really want the people responsible for this horror to be prosecuted, and I've been disappointed at what looked to me like Obama's reluctance to do the right thing.
But I'm willing to concede I was wrong....This looks like a very delicate chess game, something that has to be played step by step, carefully.
So far so good. (And I don't care if Zellikow is covering his ass, as long as he opens his mouth.)

:hi:

Apparently, Zelikow found no reason to go public with his supposed dissent until President Obama gave the signal he'd be willing to entertain prosecutions. Now suddenly, Zelikow throws up his hands and declares himself innocent? Sorry, not buying it.

That's for the DOJ.

And that's the way it looks like it's playing out.

Which is what any President should do, as it's not up to the President, and never was, who gets prosecuted for what. So how does any of this, as it now stands, make Obama look bad?

We can speculate about the reasons, and some of that speculation will prove to be correct. I am sure he is trying to distance himself and Condi, emphasizing that they worked to modify the pro-torture stance successfully over time.

But he was a careful speaker, and emphatically a voice of disagreement raised at the highest levels. And, as he noted, he did have professional experience in the human rights, anti-torture area which should have given his memorandum a degree of weight to those who read it.

It is important, going forward, to establish that there were contrary opinions.

How many more people will now come forward? Very interesting.

This guy may be gold.

service to the last Administration was using his position as Director of the 9/11 Commission to limit damaging assessments of the Bush regime's national security performance prior to the WTC attack

to a ranch in texas

911 Blogger | October 9, 2008

May-June 2004: Zelikow Has Portions of 9/11 Commission Report Rewritten to Be More Favorable to National Security Adviser Rice

9/11 Commission Executive Director Philip Zelikow tells the staff team working on the Bush administration’s response to terrorist threats in the summer of 2001 that their drafts must be rewritten to cast National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice in a better light. Rice’s testimony about the administration’s prioritizing of terrorism has been contradicted by former counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke, who said that al-Qaeda was not a high priority for the White House. The commission staffers think that Clarke is telling the truth, because, in the words of author Philip Shenon, Clarke had left a “vast documentary record” about the White House’s inattention to terrorism. Clarke’s account is also corroborated by other National Security Council (NSC) members, the CIA, and the State Department.

http://www.infowars.com/philip-zelikow-had-911-report-rewritten-to-be-more-favorable-of-condi/

is to the United States's torture program as Colin Powell is to the Iraqi invasion. Come to think of it, what did Colin Powell know about the torture program and when did he know it? It began before the Iraqi invasion, in an attempt to find a link between Al Qaida and Hussein. What did America's cheerleader for the invasion know about that?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x300782

:kick: & R

I think the floodgates are going to open - previously 'unnamed sources' are going to be all over this new freedom to talk.

now that it is too late to stop the torture?

Great. Hope they sleep well.

If only I owned a small plane.

look like a hero on the torture issue, especially since he committed a crime to the American people with his b.s. version of the 9.11 commision report.

I'll take his testimony on this issue & THEN NAIL him for what he did with the 9.11 commision & how he protected the neo-con's & especially Condi Rice's role.

Not a word Zelikow utters should be trusted. He is a snake.

is correct, why he didn't resign. Oh what tangled webs we weave..................

First one former Bush staffer, then another, and soon a flood of them will realize they don't have to live in fear of Bush and Cheney any more. They can obey their consciences and testify or write tell-all books revealing the ugliness not just of the Cheney water torture but of their disregard for the rights of American citizens and contempt for working class people and collusion with Big Oil.

I suspect the strategy of the Obama administration is to get their core agenda passed first, maybe wait for Al Franken to become the 59th Senator on their side, and then go after the illegalities of the Bush administration. In other words, they are playing softball for now, hardball later.

At least I hope some hardball is coming. The Republicans tried to impeach Clinton for gettin' a little sumpin' sumpin' on the side. And they considered that retribution for Democrats daring to go after Nixon for Watergate and Reagan for Iran-Contra. C'mon, O, smack 'em back.

These are loyalists, and they do not fear booosh/cheeeeney so much as they fear whatever it is that makes them loyalists. (Go back and re-read your Altemeyer.) Zelikow & Cie should not be given too much trust, at least not so easily. They need to do more to earn it.

Remember that these are people who would stab their own mothers, even their own children, in the back if it served their masters' political ends.


TG

is at stake.

Zelikow is not doing this out of the goodness of his heart. There's more to be learned from the other rats and the CIA types who no longer have to fear prosecution. There is an avalanche about to slide down upon The Hill and lots of folks are trying to get out of its path.

that's another healthy tradition that the GOP tried to make rare and unlikely after

Waxman's tobacco hearings---!!!

I tend to think of Obama as the "anti-reactionary" President. Kind of a cool-dude who's not going to get sucked into the political machine, no matter what the opposition or those on his own side might say.

They knew it could be used against them. Therefore they are already obstructing the investigation. Put your gloves on Obama and duke them out. Bop 'em good. One extra for JFK and MLK and RFK, for those killings doomed us to several decades of conservative dark ages. And give them a mighty uppercut for the Oct. 18, 1980 meeting of Bush Sr. with terrorists to stop Carter from freeing the hostages and make America angry at him and vote for the brain dead Reagan. Then get Bush in the headlock for making the 9/11 victims' families signing promises not to sue him or no donations.

are jumping off the sinking ship.

was wrong

i'm feeling so hopeful i might cry. it could happen! they COULD be brought to justice. yes. amen.

Those criminals did everything in their power to hide the truth on so many issues.

Damaging Environmental data coming out?
Choose Up to Three:
A. Change the Report's Language.
B. No Longer Request the Report.
C. Classify Report.
D. Bury Report.
E. Destroy Report
F. Discredit the Report's Author.

Damaging Torture data coming out?
Choose Up to Three:
A. Change the Report's Language.
B. No Longer Request the Report.
C. Classify Report.
D. Bury Report.
E. Destroy Report
F. Discredit the Report's Author

This man sat on the 9-11 Commission and allowed less than 10% of the families questions to be entered, refused to demand Bush and Cheney testify under oath, separately, and now wants someone to believe anything he says.

I wouldn't loose sleep if someone fucked him in the ass with a red hot poker, after he he was pulled down from the ceiling naked, sleep deprived, water-boarded.

Reap what you sow my friend.

Isn't he also the guy Bush put in to cover up 9/11 -- ?

And what the hell does this mean -- ???


"The decision to release Office of Legal Counsel Memos re. torture has had one other ramification so far and it is this:

Govt. officials who knew about torture but who were sworn to secrecy are now free to talk about it."

They all have a duty to protect and defend the Constitution . . . is this more "be loyal to Bush"
crap?

Who "swore them to secrecy" . . . ???

Not the country.
Remember Monica Goodling?

How easy it seems to be to turn people into robots!

or presume we can go to Rachel Maddow Show and pull it up . .

thanks!

to prosecute

during the hearings of the 9/11 Commission.

many unexpected heart attacks and strokes in the next year or so

this isn't rats leaving a sinking ship. This is more like people running from the city before the h-bomb hits.

traitor to this nation and a protector of the bush white house !

what a crock of shit..now we are to believe this laying sack of dog dirt?????

no thanks.

And R maddow knows that..so why all of a sudden are the people who stole our democracy getting a voice on the left????????

and the worst of them...the worst scum that lied to the American people about 9/11 and protected the people who got my co-workers killed..why????

I think I know why ..but maybe people need to start asking that to themselves!

fly

I hear him saying that it's a bad idea from a legal standpoint, but where exactly did Zelikow express his moral condemnation?

Maybe it's there, but where?

I wouldn't trust Zelikow as dog fucking catcher!!!!!!!!!!

This is the fucker who was the gate keeper of WH info and intelligence info during the 9/11 commission to save Bush and Condi's asses!!!!!!!!!!!!

and Maddow knows that..why is she giving this lying sack of trash air time?????????
just a tibit from my files on this fucker!
There is nothing that fucker could say that i would believe ..other than he was the person who made sure you didn't get the truth of 9/11!!

Soooooooooooo now this fella decides to come forward eh???????? bullshit..he is in my opinion..and yes we all have them..in my opinion responsible for allowing the deaths of how many who died from torture?????..Yes he is complicit because he stayed silent..he stayed silent while people were murdered..he stayed silent while bush and cheney started a war based on lies..so how many of our soldiers are dead ?? and how many Iraqi's..this fucker doesn't want to go down on war crimes..but he is as guilty..because he allowed the lies and he stayed silent..they same way this fucker lied about 9/11 and covered the criminals asses!

fly

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



Rice confidant Philip Zelikow blocked memos exposing pre-9/11 warnings by Richard Clarke

http://www.newsweek.com/id/107492

Enough Blame for All
New book reveals clashes behind the 9/11 probe

By Michael Isikoff | Newsweek Web Exclusive

In the summer of 2003, Warren Bass, an investigator for the 9/11 Commission, was digging through highly classified National Security Council documents when he came across a trove of material that startled him. Buried in the files of former White House counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke, the documents seemed to confirm charges that the Bush White House had ignored repeated warnings about the threat posed by Osama bin Laden. Clarke, it turned out, had bombarded national-security adviser Condoleezza Rice in the summer of 2001 with impassioned e-mails and memos warning of an Al Qaeda attack—and urging a more forceful U.S. government response. One e-mail jumped out: it pleaded with officials to imagine how they would feel after a tragedy where "hundreds of Americans lay dead in several countries, including the U.S.," adding that "that future day could happen at any time." The memo was written on Tuesday, Sept. 4, 2001—just one week before the attacks on New York's World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

But when Bass tried to impress the significance of what he had discovered upon the panel, he ran into what he thought was a roadblock—his boss. Philip Zelikow, a respected University of Virginia historian hired to be the 9/11 Commission's executive director, had long been friendly with Rice. The two had coauthored a book. Rice had later placed him on a Bush transition team that reorganized the NSC (and ended up diminishing Clarke's role). At Rice's request, Zelikow had also anonymously drafted a new Bush national-security paper in September 2002 that laid out the case for preventive war.

In commission staff meetings, Zelikow disparaged Clarke as an egomaniac and braggart who was unjustly slandering his friend Rice, according to a new book, "The Commission: The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation," by New York Times reporter Philip Shenon. Bass was so disturbed by what he saw as Zelikow's bullying that at one point he threatened to resign. So did a Democratic commissioner, Bob Kerrey, when he discovered Zelikow's ties to the administration. "Look, Tom, either he goes or I go," Kerrey told the panel's chairman, Republican Tom Kean, about Zelikow, according to Shenon.

Shenon's account uncovers a far greater degree of behind-the-scenes political maneuvering and bitter personal clashes than most people associate with the 9/11 panel. Most notably, his book reveals that Zelikow exchanged at least four phone calls in the early stages of the inquiry with White House political adviser Karl Rove. Zelikow (who later worked for Rice at the State Department) is quoted in the book as saying the phone calls had to do with University of Virginia matters, not the commission. In any case, the suggestion by conspiracy theorists—who have seized on the evidence in Shenon's book—that Zelikow was serving as a secret White House "mole" is hard to sustain. As some of the 9/11 commissioners themselves pointed out, Zelikow—despite his occasionally abrasive style—oversaw the production of a hard-hitting report that disclosed an unprecedented amount of previously secret information. Its highly damning revelations exposed negligence in both the Bush and Clinton administrations. "He was totally dedicated to a full airing of the facts," Lee Hamilton, the Democratic vice chairman of the panel, told Newsweek.

Just sayin'

How much, if any, of this would have happened had McCain won the election?

:kick: